As a long term retailer, I am the first to admit the wages in this sector may appear quite low.

However, have you ever given true consideration as to just where those wages come from. The answer of cause is profits, gross profits to be more precise.

While it is all well and good to get on ones high horse and claim that many in this sector, (including hospitality and tourism) are underpaid, the reality is, the pay rates are set by the very people who complain, the consumer, as it is their dollars that determine the gross profits made, which in turn pay all expenses, including wages.

We already pay $45 per litre for warm milk, and $8 for eggs.

Of cause we all know the FWC is about to hand down its decision on penalty rates, hopefully before the election, and it is my tip that with the exception of the 25% loading on weekends, every day will simply be a day ending in 'Y' and rightly so. Public holidays being the exception.

So for those who feel these workers are hard done by, ask yourselves two very basic, yet VERY IMORTANT questions.

1. Do I shop online to save money?

2. Do I shop around seeking out the best prices?

Now if you answer yes to either or both of these questions, do you think that you are actually a huge part of the reason why these wages are low.

If not, why not?

The other point you should observe is Target and Woolworths.

Say they are forced to increase wages by 10% across the board. Do you think they could afford that, or more so, do you think their respective shareholders would cop that?

BTW, if a product is discounted by just 10%, the retailer has to sell 50% more stock to make the same gross profit dollars.

Finally, don't make this another dud thread, because while its all well and good to want something, it has to be sustainable so lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story hey.

I give up where are you shopping?
Quote "We already pay $45 per litre for warm milk"

Yes Phillip, its a tricky one I know, but most people who buy a cappuccino pay $45 per litre for milk and are totally unaware of this. I often use this one when people question my top shelf rib fillet at $40 per kilo.

I'm interested to know if people actually stop and think what causes wages to be low in certain sectors.

I'm also interested to know if people who shop online, or seek the best deal are aware that they are partly responsible for the lower wages. You see, it's all well and good to want a bargain, but where are the savings going to come from. Surely they don't expect the retailer to carry all the losses. Or do they!

Butch The industries that you talk about are represented. Anyone and everyone can make a cup of coffee and that is the problem. A low cost set up and ease of operation leads to an oversupply.

It is unfair to penalise workers for not enough custom.

Butch, any 'chop shop' charging $40 a keg for fillet is over charging. Down at 'Aldi' its $30 a keg, 25% cheaper, and wages are 25% higher than the retail award!

Milk $45 litre, not to mention the price of sugar! $1000/Kg!

and if you want an egg in your latte, it will cost you an extra 8 bucks! at 'The Butch Brasserie'

My calculations, doing 1,000 cups a day, half with eggs, the rest with a side order of fillet, that's 14 5/8 minus elevnteen and a quarter, times the number I first thought of, that's 10 grand a day and i haven't even paid my staffy his 10 buck cash in hand for knocking it all up for me, while I cruise the Caribbean.

If any of you could take pity on a poor battler, please send cash donations only, no Eftpos, I can't afford to pay the GST!

oh dear Philip, 1000 cups a day you say.

It takes about 3 min to make a coffee, so that's 20 per hour max, so I doubt one person can do that mate, but good try.

May I suggest if you are happy with the Aldi $30 rib, good for you as my customers love what I sell. Furthermore, Aldi don't produce, they buy and seel so their margins are very small. They simply find some mug to work for very little to do it for them, and good for them too.

579, over supply means less jobs, more workers, and lower pay rates, once again consumer driven.

Butch, its Paul not Phillip, reporting from the Caribbean aboard my luxury yacht. Don't tell me that slacko' kid I employed on $10/hour isn't up to it! I knew I shouldn't have made him "shop manager" on those big bucks! And to think I let him keep 5% of the tips. How ungrateful can a kid get?
Do you think Fair Work will let me cut him back to $5/hour, but only on Sundays.

"They simply find some mug to work for very little to do it for them, and good for them too." I's not that what you advocate anyway?

One of the biggest meat packers in Australia supplies Aldi. Not sure about your bloke. I actually buy my meat from the local bloke down the road, have done so for about 40 years. now that's loyalty.

I don't like the idea of taking away penalty rates.
I understand your business is slowly getting squeezed by big business, and while I think that's a little unfortunate, I still think if you cant pay the same penalty rates that you may have enjoyed once yourself then you should shut your doors on Sundays.

That in itself sucks even more considering the bigger players just get stronger while your position becomes weaker, so I do feel for you situation.

Maybe its time to start selling coffees instead, if that's where the money is, sorry to say.

* Down at 'Aldi'*

Aldi have an efficient supply chain, with minimal staff and don't really need to worry about profits, as they are owned by a German family who happen to be one of the richest families on the planet.

Coles and Woolies are largely owned by Super Funds, who own these shares on behalf of all of you who have Superannuation. If they make less profits, it therefore comes out of your back pockets, which you just don't notice as it has never dawned on most, that you are in fact the real owners of these businesses.

Armchair, at least one can have a civil and balanced debate with you, and I thank you for that.

Butcher shops come under a different award to cafes with our Sunday rates being 1.5 times. Cafes and tourism used to be the same until Julia, while minister for employment, thought it would be wise to condense many different awards into a few. Hence a coffee now costs twice as much to make just because its a Sunday.

I have no issues with police, nurses, plumbers etc getting double time on Sundays, because that's out of hours, but cafes being open on Sundays is expected and I see no harm in Sundays being any different to Saturdays with a 25% loading. I suspect the FWC will hold the same view.

Paul, you bang on about kids on $10 per hour cash, while this may happen, they are the unskilled drop kicks that are all but unemployable, the ones who have spent 10 years a school having achieved nothing, regardless of the amount of tax payers dollars involved.

Are you also aware of the amount of cash deals done by traddies Paul, is this any different?

Some people have this obsession with Sundays being different, but in all honesty, in the café world its just another day ending in Y, and the sooner you can accept that, the sooner the missing tax dollars can flow.

Has this thread stopped for a coffee break?

Butch cash and traddies, yes my point exactly tax avoidance by small business.

You forget if you trade 7 days a week with longer hours one of the big fixed costs, rent, which can be much higher in a business than wages for the week is amortised over more hours reducing the hourly cost. so there are some automatic benefits already with having longer trading hours, particularly if sales increase proportionately.
I am sure all those retailers operating on a Sunday now, are not doing it for the benefit of the community, but are doing it for profit.

Retchub,
I think the rules should be the same for everyone, regardless of what industry you work in.
Sunday is the day where Aussie workers get their own back and say 'you want me slaving today, we'll you're going to pay through the nose for it'.
I don't think we should take away something that is the cornerstone of employment, that all Australian workers have historically enjoyed.

As for your situation, here's what I would do.

Take a loan from the bank and buy or build yourself a coffee shop.
It'll be insurance if the government and big business keep squeezing your butcher shop.
You can then laugh all the way to the bank as well, with your $45 a litre milk and $1000 sugar.

Next buy some shares in Coles and Woolies for peace of mind, to get your own back.
That way every time someone buys a piece of meat from the big guys - your competitors, you will also profit.
And every time the government gives out welfare, to young Aussies who have no drive towards employment, and have all kinds of rings and tattoos all over their bodies and faces, then you'll profit off those bums too.

This way the things that get under your skin will be a whole lot less annoying.

Paul, obviously you are not aware that tenants get charged extra in most cases for trading outside core hours, and sundays, ph and after 5pm are usually not core hours.

Besides, rents are now in most cases less than wages, especially when you take in the add ons.

AC, the consumer wants the shops cafes etc open seven days, but don't want to pay the price. Go figure.

Anyway, off fishing for a week so wont be on often.Lucky I pay my staff well because otherwise I couldn't trust them to stay hey!

Armchair Critic once upon a time, retailing was 5 days, 9 to 5, plus Saturday morning. Most industry was just 5 days, & people had weekends off for fun. Then penalty rates were justifiable, but in this now 24/7 world they are definitely not.

Someone demanded 24/7 shopping. It was probably actually government, looking for some way to employ the useless masses, as industry became unaffordable in Oz.

This did not come with any increase in real disposable income, so the same spend was spread over longer hours requiring more employees to service it. Obviously costs climbed considerably, & the small increase in business gained by eliminating the small corner store did not help much with this.

Thus your worker is not sticking it up the boss, but the consumer who has to pay more to cover these extra costs. The only one in front is government, with unemployment figures looking better.

Of course Paul shows his total lack of understanding anything with his post. He must be a bureaucrat or academic to be so wrong. The small retailers hate the longer hours. They are not open for profit as he believes, but survival. Many simply have to personally work longer hours, as employees are not affordable, even the cash in hand mob are too costly.

Weekend trading is rarely profitable for them, however if they are not open they lose their weekday business as well.

I could not believe people were stupid enough to be in favour of first Thursday night, then full Saturday trading, & finally 24/7, but they were. Now they will have to accept the loss of penalty rates if not this year, but soon, as part of the cost of their convenient shopping lifestyle.

Do enjoy the fishing rehctub.

Where are you going? Back to the old stamping grounds in the Whitsundays, or somewhere more local.

I used to get very sick of reef fishing trips, when I could get stuck out there for a week or even two, flying new tourists & supplies out to us with Air Whitsundays Lake Buccaneers. I'd be wishing the fuel to get low, so I had to come back in.

Today I'd love a couple of those trips, although that could be just looking back through the rose coloured glasses of time.

Hi Has been. as luck would have it I get service now and again, im at Weipa.

As for your post, you have pretty much summed it up perfectly, especially the part where there is no extra money, and if there is, something else is suffering.

If only these unionised people could see past their own bias. I just hope they don't learn the hard way, because then everyone except the big boys miss out and they are doing their level best to reduce staff at every angle.