The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Labors negative gearing policy, will it effect rents and why.

Labors negative gearing policy, will it effect rents and why.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 16
  7. 17
  8. 18
  9. Page 19
  10. 20
  11. 21
  12. 22
  13. All
If you can't afford to live in a home of a standard and location to which you feel entitled, AJP, then move. The world does not revolve around Sydney and Melbourne. There is life beyond.

Heck, we come from pioneer stock that migrated across continents for a better life, even if some were forced into it.

Think bigger.
Posted by Luciferase, Monday, 2 May 2016 1:24:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
For the financial inept. Negative gearing 101 example

Joe gets $100 000 per year and already owns his own home which is paid for. He buys a house for $1000 000 with a deposit of $200 000 borrowed against his existing home, and rents it out for $700/week or $36 500 p.a.

His costs on the new house are:
Interest: $40 000 p.a. + $10 000 on the existing mortage. ( plus stamp duty of $50 000)
Rates: $2500
Land tax $8000
Maintenance $5000

So Joe makes a net loss of $29 000 p.a. of which he can claim $19 000 against tax.
His marginal rate is 42% and average rate is 25% so before the investment he took home %75 000, but with the negative gearing he will take home roughly $54 000. Without negative gearing he would take home $46 000, so he saves roughly $8000 p.a. on tax, but still takes home substantially less for an investment that will only mature in 10 yrs

When he sells the house, say for $1600 000 he will then pay capital gains on $550 000 less agency fees leaving him with a profit of $450 000 -$210 000 = $230 000 or $150 000 without NG.

So even with negative gearing the payback is not huge, but essentially the tenant has has a tax subsidised rent.
Without negative gearing the owner would need to charge another $150 pw to break even.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 2 May 2016 3:22:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
That is a slim list of costs. Just to add a few more, but not making it an exhaustive list by any means:

Property management
Letting commission: Equivalent to one week's rent
Rent collection and management: 8.5% of rent collected + GST

Plus an ever-increasing diversification of fees, examples being,
..Lease negotiation/Renewal fee,
..Fees for professional regular photos of property (inspection/ management, claims and for advertising, example is $200 for annual photos for vacancy advertising)
..Advertising and listing on the internet fees
..End of year financial statement fee $25-50 per each press of the computer key
..Appearing in mediation (RTA) and Tribunal, min $65 per each
..Various special inspections for smoke alarms ($95-165), gas detector check/service ($100-$165) and the new one being recommended at present because of litigious tenants attempting to shake down owners, annual safety inspection for $200
..Periodic inspection fee: $25
..Administrative expenses (e.g. postage, STD phone calls, fax transmissions and bank fees.): $5.50 sundries per month

all plus GST where applicable.

Loss of rental income for tenant changeovers, two weeks lost rent. Where the lease was for 6 months, that could be an additional loss of 4 weeks rent a year.
..The Tribunal says that tenants must be allowed a grace of time following the conclusion of their tenancy to return to inspect and conduct tenant repairs. Tenant repairs, while acceptable to the Tribunal are usually substandard and detract from the property, resulting in necessary rectification arranged and paid for by the owner. -More costs and more lost time.

Insurances and losses occasioned by limits imposed.

In defence of REAs, the tenancy regulations are complex and skewed towards making the landlord his brother's keeper. Tenant responsibilities have been watered down by changes to regulations and by Tribunal decisions.

-Which means that responsible tenants must pay a premium to support an increasing number of 'Professional Tenants' who make a practice of eating PMs and owners alive and leave a trail of debts, damage and claims in their wake. There is enormous turnover of property management staff.
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 2 May 2016 4:52:01 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Watch 4 Corners tonight on this subject. They might even have someone who knows what he/she is talking about.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 2 May 2016 6:09:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
SM, I see it differently as the income is added to his gross wage, then the deduction subtracted, the an adjustment on the PAYG tax paid is made.

So, $100,000 + $36,400 = $136,400 total income.

His deduction for year one are Combined interest of $50,000, stamp $50,000 (assuming this is correct) rates, $2500, Land tax $8,000 (not sure if you can claim that as it can not be passed on in a com lease)

All up for 1sr year $115,500 resulting in a taxable income of $20,900.

Tax on this would be about $460, so refund for 1st year would be $24,540. This is assuming the land tax and stamps can be offset in year one.

Year two, income $136,400, less deductions of $57,500, bring pre tax income to $79,000, tax on this about 17,000, tax paid $25,000, refund $8,000 which forms the negative gearing.

Remove this and the rent will have to increase by at least $8,000 per annum otherwise why buy the house, especially if you have no idea of the value once lived in.

Very few renters will rent that house for $850 per week, so the asset will have to be held indefinitely, meaning less homes will be built.

It is so obviously ridiculous this policy that it's almost laughable, or would be if Turnbull wasn't such a dud, because there is a chance Shorten will get up. But even if he does I seriously doubt this policy will get though.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 2 May 2016 6:13:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The example given is unclear to me (e.g. $10000 existing mortgage?), but stamp duty is carried as a part of the cost base until capital gain is finally calculated. It's another reason the cost base should be indexed for CGT calculation.

Land tax is not a part of the usual residential tenancy agreement but part of the annual income and expenditure of rental investment.

I am this close to chucking in my rental property. This class war makes it clear just how enviously hated landlords are, judging by newspaper letters and online commentary, not only in Guardian, but everywhere.

I'm tired of being a cash cow for the state gov't too. Last FY my land tax rose by more than 50%,with zero market/vacancy pricing power to recover this through raising rent. The gov't gets away with this BS simply because it can.
Posted by Luciferase, Monday, 2 May 2016 6:53:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 16
  7. 17
  8. 18
  9. Page 19
  10. 20
  11. 21
  12. 22
  13. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy