I have not read the whole report as yet and I don't think I want too. I have read Andrew Bolts commentary about it in yesterdays Sun Herald where the full report is protected by a pay wall.

It seems to me the report will be very much like the 'Little children are Angels report' which spurred the Fed Government into some action which received a lot of criticism and branded racist by sections of the aboriginal industry.

I find it incredible that the Qld government can sit on this report for 3 years and that the aboriginal community sit there and let the children be abused both physically and sexually.

It is interesting to note that while the abuse of aboriginal children is happening, apparently over many parts of Australia, we on OLO sit back and debate if the place was Terra Nullius, settled or invaded.

I think there are more immediate concerns.

Not having read the full report due to the fact it costs dosh. Therefore given to reading the comments on the subject by Andrew Bolt, no doubt the same Andrew Bolt who was convicted of breaching the Racial Discrimination Act. One can only assume there is some juicy material in said report that can be used by the likes of Andrew Bolt, raciest, including those on this forum, to engage in a bit of good old fashioned 'Black Fella Bashing'.

Paul,

Apparently you haven't read the report either.

Paul,
I saw the comments regarding the Smallbone report far too important not to openly discuss the issue. I will obtain a copy of the actual report ASAP but while that is being done there is no reason why those posters who may have access to the report should not be able to comment. To my mind the welfare of Aussie children merits discussion before such trivial matters as Terra Nullias or speculation about a future election.

Since proposing the thread I have read quite a few media reports and they are not good. Like I said earlier they are very much like the 'Little children are angels' report into the abuse of NT children.

You may well think other matters should take precedence or the issue should be kept quiet but One would expect that from a left, green advocate. Just like your poster girl SH-Y talking down the deaths of illegal entrants. For greens trees come before children's welfare.

I cannot understand how people can allow such a situation to develop.

Oh, by the way Bolt fully agreed with the comments of Warren Mundine, whom you may not be aware is very well respected, and so do I.

Paul, I read the following small report on this subject:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-12/youth-sexual-violence-abuse-report-far-north-queensland-released/7242016

I can't understand why they sat on this report for 4 years?
I was aware of another local community abuse situation, like those in Northern Queensland, many years ago.

The local police, local doctor's surgeries, Aboriginal Medical Service and local community health workers all knew about what was going on there, but in those days the victims had to make a complaint before the police would do anything about it.
I went to the police, but they said the community members had to make a report themselves.

I tried to talk to some of the by then adult community members, who were victims as children, but they told me that they didn't want the men of their community sent to jail for many years, and that several perpetrators of the abuse were now old and sick.
So they refused.

I left that job in great distress, but was somewhat gratified to see some of those child abuse perpetrators jailed for their crimes several years later. But who had they got to during those years in between?
I often wondered if this abuse would have (? still does) been ignored if it were any other kids than indigenous kids being abused?

To busy dealing with 50 year old cases by Catholic Priests to be worried about daily abuse of aboriginal kids. Does not fit with the regressive narrative of the Nobel savage.

I would suggest, thanks in large to the apology from one K Rudd, that our authorities dare not go near indigenous affairs. Tony Abbott tried and got shot down.

These people are playing us for the fools we have become and some of us are too stupid to realize it.

We have a race where many within rely on a pooftenth of indigenous blood so they can live in remote areas, on our taxes with no prospect of bettering themselves and they have and raise children in the same worthless environment and we are stupid enough to allow it.

Call me racist all you like but the reality is that Rudd and his
supporters have built our nest, so now we have to live in it.

It has become obvious that we are living beyond our means and this kind of waste should be high on the 'must fix' agenda, but good luck with that. These people have become untouchable to a large extent.

Hi Susie, thanks for the ABC News article. Professor Smallbone's Report would not contain any surprises, some shocking stats, yes, but surprises no.

The Queensland government sitting on the report for years is of a concern, it plays into the hands of the bigoted racists. More important than the report itself is what is the governments response, a steering Committee, the cynic might say "Oh no, not another committee!" Already on this thread Runner and Butch have had a poke, with racial undertones. do they ever suggest anything positive for Aboriginal people, No! Although Runner's post was rather strange, trying to establish a relationship between catholic pedophiles and delinquent Aboriginals in the suburbs of Cains.

Hi Banjo, I have met many of the Mundine clan including Warren, a great advocate for Aboriginal people. Not sure if he is better suited outside the political arena in an advisory roll, or would be of greater service to the Aboriginal people from within.

Hi Paul,

I agree that "The Queensland government sitting on the report for years is of a concern", but I'm not surprised that (according to the ABC report),

"In response to the report, .... Minister Curtis Pitt announced a steering committee .... to make recommendations for change."

and, lo and behold:

"The Steering Committee will provide an interim report in mid-2016 and a final report by the end of the year."

Yeah, that should put it all off for a bit longer. It's such a big issue that delays should be expected in getting that final report out - perhaps well into 2017, or even 2018.

Meanwhile how many more kids are going to be ruined ? It's already nine years since that 'Little Children are Sacred' Report, and eight since the Intervention in the NT. Those 9- and 10-year-olds back then are now adults. No worries, given another twenty years, they can call themselves elders and abuse all the kids they like.

No, bugger it, jail all the abusers for as long as it takes. Let the kids sleep peacefully at night.

What do you reckon ? Am I racist enough ? For suggesting quicker action to protect yet another generation of children ? For coming down very, very hard on abusers, no matter who they are ?

Joe

While two Indigenous leaders are now (rightly) demanding debate and action on the Smallbone Report it was Indigenous leaders and the political correctness of Indigenous politics that kept the report in the dark.

However the risk of injury to those who came forward would be real enough and betray broader systemic problems of corruption, violence wastage and crime (and concealment of the advice and reports by politicians and senior bureaucrats and NGOs) - revealed by numerous whistle blowers over the years and by ANAO reports (focussed on $$ and identifying generalised corruption).

It is timely to point out that the 'fact-finding'(LOL) ABC and SBS similarly have had a lot to say about children in detention but have been strangely quiet about the Smallbone Report. Now they will have to get the spin right.

Corruption, crime and abuses of children bloomed after the deeply flawed, ideologically-correct Whitlam government provided the money, opportunity and environment of autonomy and self management, with its highly restricted media scrutiny. Not forgetting the extreme multiculturalism that approved and concealed noxious practices such as child marriage.

The first priority should be to restore free speech and get rid of that 18C. Get rid of the Human Rights Commission aka the Commission for Political Correctness at the same time. Nary a word for Indigenous children but plenty to say about 'children in detention' and only when the LNP came to government.

There also needs to be honesty and action on attitudes and behaviours of aboriginal cultural origin, including the ease with which elders and other thugs, male AND female, can bully and conceal crime, and to punish those who raise the black curtain to reveal the less than 'Noble' traditions and behaviours hidden behind.

ALL children MUST enjoy the coverage and protection of Australian law. So too ALL children must have the benefit of education of the Australian curriculum.

It is time that the so-called 'Progressives' aka International Socialists and the Greens 'Protest' Party owned up to the harm they have caused to Indigenous children through their social experimenting.

The ABC should also admit to censoring the news and programming to further the political correctness and extreme multiculturalist idealism that have always concealed and shielded from corrective action, the corruption and abuses that are rife and have been so for generations.

Oh come on folks!

Does anyone really believe that this kind of behaviour has not been part of aboriginal culture, [what ever that really is], for the last 40,000 years.

Time to decide what you really want. Do you destroy this ancient & disgusting "culture", or do you shut your eyes & ignore it.

Come on bleeding hearts, lets hear some real suggestions.

Hi Hasbeen,

Is it an Australian thing to pick self-deprecating noms de plume ?

In the Protector' letters here in SA, especially in the early days, he reports a number of cases of men beating their wives to death. Given that the population was barely in the hundreds around Adelaide (and that included people from hundreds of miles away, coming in for the rations), one case every few years, would be something like one case per 1000 per year. The courts treated these cases quite leniently really, taking into account the people's cultural practices.

My friend Alistair Crooks has put all of that material into a coherent analysis called 'Voices From the Past' - at first he wanted to call it 'The Pocket Protector', but SWMBO overruled him. It can be found on his web-site: http://www.aboriginalculture.org/index.html

In George Taplin's Journal (on my web-site: www.firstsources.info), he also reports a number of cases of men beating their wives, sometimes to death but sometimes only to a pulp. Again, out of only a few hundred people in the area over twenty years, this would amount to comparatively high levels of DV.

I've been told about a busload of women about to come down to Adelaide from the SA North-West, and being beaten by their husbands even while they were embarking.

One wonders if a young Aboriginal girl in an isolated 'community' had kept a comprehensive Journal since, say, 1960, what encounters she would have reported. If she survived, of course.

Alternatively, if there were any anthropologist around with enough courage, what would they report in a single 24-hour report in an isolated 'community' ? Could they turn that into a TV documentary series, hour by hour ? Probably not for the ABC these days.

Joe

Loudmouth

the academics must hate you. You certainly have a great knowledge of what took place among the SA aboriginals. I have spoken to old missionaries who spent up to 40 or 50 years in the lands who confirm that it certainly was no island paradise. Many of the so called stolen generation were really the saved generation. Truth can be cruel but unless faced up to and there will be no freedom. More victimhood status, more bashings, more child abuse, more spearings, more crime etc. Heartbreaking for many who have devoted their lives to improving conditions. Good though for the many whities who get on the Government gravy train. Feminist hate the truth because by and large white ladies have had it very good. Unfortuntaley their are exceptions.

Well I've been trying to stay out of this but I gotta have my 2 cents.

I didn't really know that I had any aboriginal heritage until a couple of years back. I'm a shade of white that compares pretty much with any other white person.

My dads mum left my grandfather when my dad was really young and he grew up with his grandparents.
At age 12, he was told that his mother had been killed in a car accident in Sydney.
This was about all I knew about my grandmother and her side of the family until last Christmas.

Over Christmas, my dad showed me this book which he said had been sent to him by a person whom he'd met through ancestry.com who had full details or his mothers side of the family.

My grandmother was part-Aboriginal part-Irish and the book contained full details of the family tree dating back from when they first came to Australia in 1824, up until around the generation of my grandmother.

Now firstly I've always held the opinion (even before I knew I had a family connection) that if anyone has the right to be racist in this country its the indigenous.

But since I've read the book and now understand a little more about one branch of my family tree where I came from I do feel like I want to defend them more - I feel like I want to say want to say hey! don't try to play down in any way what was done to them.

Lining them up along the cliffs of gorges and just shooting them into the ravine. Shooting them for petty things, like stealing a vegetable.
My great-grandmother (its shown in the book) had her kids in different towns. She couldn't stay put in one place for fear of having her children taken, as was the practice.
My indigenous family were only given the option to own the worst most unproductive pieces of land, and even then were prayed upon by white landowners who saw increasing their holdings as just a trivial thing.

I don't know what being made slaves and victims does to a people on their own land, especially when it comes to their mindset and how they feel about being oppressed.

I don't know if its a semi open wound that never really heals, whether some are genuinely just taking advantage of the system.

But I'd like to say that for all their faults (and some of you suggest they were letting the land go to waste) they were on this island for 40,000 years, and during that time they did keep it in pristine condition. Look what we've done to the place in 300yrs.

Hi AC,

I guess you might need some evidence of reported atrocities, if they occurred. It's been easy enough for barflies to trade on rumours.

It's a terrible thing to come to believe that whatever you do, wherever you go, you'll be victimised. That you'll always be a victim. As we know from Martin Seligman's research, 'learned helplessness' is a most insidious danger. It must absolutely sap anybody of any determination to do anything to overcome their situation. I think we have to be very careful not to let that happen, especially in self-reinforcing groups of 'victims'.

In fact, one could see the 'stolen generation' myth as part of that learned helplessness narrative. NO ! There was NO Stolen generation: find the files, the data, and check it out, if anybody really wants to get to the truth. So far, only one case has been demonstrated in all of Australia, and that, Bruce Trevorrow's, was pretty dodgy: if I had been that social worker, I probably would have done something similar - and I did know some of the family, his mum, brothers, stepfather, stepfather's sisters and in-laws, etc.

Cheers,

Joe

The problem with the $1.3 billion pa ABC having a 'Progressive' slant and spruiking such cr@p as the 'Stolen Generations' is that there are many people who accept the myths without question and as fact.

To top it all off, books like The Rabbit Proof Fence are promoted in schools as factual historical records and Indigenous are invited in to scare children with their fictitious PC stories of victimhood.

The victim industry must be one of Australia's largest and booming industries and the taxpayer has to pay for it.

Hi OTB,

If anyone can find the slightest evidence for the Rabbit Fence story, apart from 'story', I would be very interested. There was no mention of it in the 1934 Moseley Commission evidence, nor any reference by Mrs Mary Bennett, nor by Paul Hasluck, who both were very committed and would have picked up any trace of the story if it had really occurred.

There is no mention in any newspaper articles of the time, i.e. the 'West Australian' which was fiercely anti-government and pro-Labor, and would have found out from rural contacts if anything remotely like the Story had been actually happening.

Thanks for bringing it up, OTB :)

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Loudmouth,
I honestly don't know whether or not the stolen generation history as we are lead to believe is true or not.
I've never even had any sort of stories passed down to me and I didn't even know I had native heritage until recently.
The book is well detailed though, about 100pages of family history, I'll have to go through it properly when I find the time.

What it does say is that of her 11 children only one set of consecutive babies were born at the same place. That she stayed constantly on the move because she was afraid her children would be taken from her. It talks a little about electoral enrollments and of not wanting to keep a fixed address and that she did not want to draw the attention of police (as agents of the Aboriginal Protection Board) to her large family.

I'll have to spend some time going through it and I'll let you know if I find anything else interesting if the thread still going.

I remember when I was young my Dad mentioning the rabbit proof fence, but it may have been just after watching an episode of the Leyland Brothers.. It was a long time ago, but I'm sure it was on one episode.

There's some stuff on wikipedia about it but I don't know how useful or reliable the info is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit-proof_fence

Found this for the rabbit proof fence:
http://www.nla.gov.au/anplan/heritage/images/NPLANDEC07Dcomp.jpg
Tried looking up the newspaper archive but could not find page 11.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/title/30#

Armchair Critic, it seems that some people on this forum pick and choose what Australian 'history' stories they want to believe, and those they don't.
And surprise surprise, they choose to disbelieve Indigenous people's historical stories.

I found an interesting website that does show a timeline of government policies, and witness stories from Aboriginal people, through the past 200 years or so.

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/timeline-history-separation-aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islander-children-their-families-text

Most contributors to this thread will disregard proof like this due to ignorance.
I don't need this sort of site as proof about the Stolen Generation though, because I have worked amongst the Aboriginal communities in both rural and metro areas, in both WA and the Northern Territory, for years.

I have spoken to many people who have related similar stories from their childhood about how they were taken from their mother or parents, raised in 'white' households, or taken to children's homes run by religious groups. Yes they received an 'education' of sorts that allowed some of them to do quite well in the wider Australian society as adults, but they remained overwhelmingly sad about the loss of their families.

Some of these people eventually found their lost families, and the reunion stories were very sad. Often their parents had already died, still mourning the loss of their kids.
Overwhelmingly, these children were of mixed race and were considered 'worth saving' by the governments of the day, due to the 'white' part of their heritage.

I can't imagine how there would be many thousands of similar stories amongst the many Indigenous communities in Australia if it were all just one big lie?
Anyone suggesting it is a lie have never met any of these Indigenous people and are just ignorant racists.

You all ant a solution to the problem of child/girl/women abuse and all other abuses in Aboriginal communities?

Treat all Australians the same under the Law.

Hi Suse,

Of course people have stories. But not every story is accurate or true. Surely we know that from watching 'Who Do You Think You Are ?' Usually the back story is more interesting than the received version.

Presumably cases of children taken into care would have records, files, to provide some background reasons. Of course children may not understand about their neglect or destitution, if such occurred. And we all colour our early stories in the most favourable way. I certainly have tended to romanticise my ancestors and their histories in favourable ways, often contradicted by actual evidence, to the point where I'm not sure about any of it. Some of them, by the way, were raised in care. It happened to white kids too, you know :)

You mention that "Overwhelmingly, these children were of mixed race .... " Yes, for a host of reasons which have been gone over many times on OLO. Children in the NT taken down South at the beginning of the War ? Children taken to homes during droughts, 'temporarily, until the drought is over', which didn't happen soon. If people cared to look, there would be files on them which under FOI, they would have access to.

Thirty-odd years ago, I did a quick study of infant mortality, decade by decade, at one mission/settlement where records went back to 1860. I was amazed and puzzled to find that the decade with the highest infant mortality there was the 1950s.

I didn't realise until much later that that was also the decade when working families left to find work an better schooling, leaving the more 'casual' families behind to fend for themselves. Which they didn't do so well.

It was also the decade with the highest rate of kids being taken into care - almost all of whom, by the way, later returned to their families. Again, there would be documentation if people took the trouble to look for it.

Joe

From what I understand from my family's history, they didn't always get their kids registered.

I'm willing to give the vast majority of stories the benefit of the doubt on face value, and though I will admit that stories can be mistold over time (this book I have was written from memory apparently and it has a lot of detail) I also believe it's reasonable to think that a lot of things done to them would never have been recorded.

We can't just have a new flag, and start a new slate with a fresh new rebranded face without firstly washing all the dirt off, or at least trying to.

Maybe we should stop referring to them as Aboriginal or Indigenous (This infers they're not the same as us)
- And simply refer to them as 'First Australians'

I can't argue with Is Mise that the laws need to be the same for everyone, but maybe we have to find a sensitive and respectful way to enforce them, one that works for and helps everyone.

Joe,
What is the child abuse situation in SA? Is it similar in extent to that in NT and QLD? What is your knowledge of child abuse in other states.

I notice that you advocate prosecution of the perpetrators in your first post here. I also notice that the reason given by one mayor for delay in tabling the report was to prevent retribution to the informants, how can that be contained.

Personally, I question what has the communities and government done over the past 3 years to alter the situation. Any reason to think the situation has changed for better? Or don't they care?

Hi Banjo,

Any information I have is very much second-hand these days, as well as what I read in the media.

As in other 'communities' where nobody has much positive or constructive to do all day (or all night), where frankly out-moded authority structures legitimate male excess, where grog and drugs are shipped in regardless of rules or the law, where children are safer on the streets at two in the morning than in their own homes, where sexualised behaviour is normal, child abuse is probably no more prevalent in SA 'communities' than elsewhere in Australia.

Justice Mulligan (lovely man) handed down his Report on child abuse in the North-West some years ago and has passed away since then, while little seems to have been done in the meantime. Perhaps the problems are so widespread - since the underlying factors producing them seem to remain unchanged - that nothing less than some sort of revolution is required. The tragedy is constantly compounded by the dismal fact that there are no practical ingredients for one.

Back in the fifties and sixties, when the last government settlements were being set up, following the last of the missions of the thirties and forties, bringing people in to settled life, with all the trappings of welfare services, national conferences of welfare officers touched delicately on the problems of 'what next' - and moved quickly onto other issues.

But what were the options then ?

* Leave people where they were, and even deny them access to the outside world ?

* Move people as quickly as possible from settlement life (without any employment whatever) on to experience in small nearby towns and beyond, and the need to sustain themselves economically in radically different circumstances - and thereby to come to understand the need for their children to educate themselves ?

* Or maintain welfare 'communities', effectively for ever, regardless ?

God must be weeping.

Joe

Armchair Critic it has recently been found that about 20% of us have some Neanderthal DNA in our genes. That is great, but it doesn't mean any of us have any Neanderthal heritage.

I suggest, if you just discovered you have some aboriginal DNA, that does not indicate any aboriginal heritage, that requires living in the culture.

Suse,
I am a sceptic of hand-me-down family stories and have been since I did my family history some years ago.

I grew up in a large family well before TV when family gatherings occurred, usually with card nights or other occasions, and after supper there would be talk about family and local interest matters.

My family history searches found that nearly all the stories we were told had errors ranging from minor mistakes to marked distortions and some outright fabrications. For example, my GGGrandfather, according to his Obituary, was a Crimean War veteran, but no record of that can be found and the birth of some of his kids shows he was home when the war was on. A Great Aunt told immigration that she could read and write, yet a few years later she signed her husbands death certificate with a large X. I could list a whole series of errors.

I encourage everyone to do their family history as all sorts of interesting information can be found these days with many records available on line. But do not rely on family stories.

@Suseonline, Tuesday, 5 April 2016 1:13:12 AM

How do you explain the lack of documentary proof for the alleged 'stolen generation', yet there were meticulous records kept at the time? As evidenced for instance by the documentary trail concerning wards of the State and the many hundreds of babies taken from mothers in the general mainstream population who were deemed unable to support them?

In the mainstream population there is plenty of documentary evidence from involved organisations, State and private, of the forced adoption of children from unwed mothers and from families who could not support them. See here,

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/02/23/3438175.htm

However you wouldn't be saying anything about those children now would you? But why not?

Hasbeen,
Yes I'd agree with your statement, I don't have any aboriginal heritage.
And I'm not trying to cash in on it in any way, and never will.
But I guess I have a little more sympathy and respect for what these people may have gone through now that I understand its not just someone else's family but also a part of my own.

Hi Joe, basically you asked earlier if I thought you were a raciest, reading your posts No.
The situation today sees 80% of Indigenous people urbanised in cities and large town, which in itself presents some other problems from those in isolated communities. Since WWII the biggest shift of Aboriginal people has been to Sydney and Melbourne. The original Aboriginal reserve in Sydney was at La Perouse, isolated from the city, the community maintained strong tribal links, particularly with the south coast clans, La Perouse today has become part of metropolitan Sydney and is no longer isolated, but still very much Aboriginal. Between the wars and just after, the NSW government moved to close, or reduce rural reserves within the state. Along with post war labour demands this resulted in a steady shift of the Aboriginal population from rural to urban, particularly to Sydney's Redfern area, Sydney now days houses the largest indigenous population in Australia With urbanisation comes a loss of culture and community with a strong demand that indigenous people assimilate to urban life. The sudden shift to inner city Redfern resulted in overcrowding in what was mostly substandard housing. Landlords were very discriminatory when it came to rental properties, black people were a no go in better areas. With their urban neighbors, poor working class whites, a strong community did develop in Redfern, with a new street culture and enjoyable community life. Despite many setbacks and problems associated with poverty and urbanisation the Redfern Aboriginal community survives to this today.

Paul, you say the Aboriginal community survives to this day in the likes of Redfern, but, are they largely supported, or self sufficient?

If they are largely supported, then they are only surviving from the support of others.

Hi Paul,

Thanks, I think.

Brisbane probably pips Sydney for Indigenous urban growth: at the 2011 Census, they each had more than 50,000 Indigenous residents, while Melbourne had only around 20,000 (fewer than in Cairns). My bet is that the Indigenous population of Redfern is a small minority of those living in Sydney (and shrinking), that there are more in Penrith or Mt Druitt than in Redfern ?

I would agree with your statement above if you modified it slightly: "With urbanisation comes an attenuation of culture and community with a strong demand from Indigenous people that they have access to all the usual opportunities to urban life."

It's a good idea to try not to use the passive voice in relation to Indigenous people :) They are, and usually have been, far more active in determining their own lives than people think.

Urban Indigenous people are generally where they want to be. Cities present far more opportunities. The vast majority of Indigenous people who are going to university these days, perhaps seventeen thousand this year [a 25-year-old age-group numbers about ten thousand], are from urban backgrounds - as are the vast majority of the forty thousand Indigenous university graduates.

The growing tragedy, to which the Indigenous elites are oblivious, is that rural and remote people are far less likely to be enrolling at universities than they were ten or fifteen years ago.

My father was born in Redfern, and my mum's father died there, in a little dirt-floor hovel, about 8- or 10-ft wide, off Moore Park. My sister was beaten up there for her purse. That's Redfern, I suppose.

Cheers,

Joe

That's true Joe, the western sprawl seen the indigenous population grow in the western burbs of Sydney. I was talking post WWII early 50's 60's growth in Sydney and Melbourne, Brisbane later. At that time Mt Druitt was still semi-rural

Paul1405, "Landlords were very discriminatory when it came to rental properties, black people were a no go in better areas"

That would be a fair statement if you were using discriminate for its preferred, traditional meaning which relates to weighting merit to make an informed decision.

That is indeed what owners and property managers have to do. A home is a very expensive asset and rental is a business transaction where the asset must be protected and the agreed conditions of the lease met.

Where a tenant has demonstrated he is hard on a property, causing filth and damage, and regards rent as his very last priority behind boozing and cannot manage his own affairs or be trusted to act responsibly, of course he is not a suitable person to enter into a contract with.

Ferals increase the cost of accommodation for everyone and threaten the viability of the business.

So of course their behaviour would limit their accommodation choices, and should do wouldn't you admit?

But no, as a member of the serially protesting NSW 'Watermelon' Greens faction - that fosters and farms protest and discontent for no better reason than to score parliamentary seats for a few Trotskyist elite to polish and profit from - you would always be using discriminate to imply that someone is a 'victim' who should sit back, take $$ from the taxpayer and not be responsible for his own choices in life.

Re this Smallbone Report:

In defence of traditional society, abuse and violence are by no means unusual. The following extracts are picked at random from the Rv. Taplin's Journal (on my web-ste: www.firstsources.info):

1873: March 27. Served out rations to aged and infirm. Prepared address for evening. Prepared a sermon for Sunday morning. Wrote business letters &c. Went over to Tea Meeting at Pullewewal Schoolroom. Gave an address after.

Saw and had a long talk with Bob Wilson about his marrying. It appears that old Paddy Smith has been getting presents from him under promise to let him have Sally to give away for a wife for himself and on the quiet the old rascal Paddy has been bargaining to give her away to somebody else that she does not like [Wasa].

29. Engaged till 11.30 in serving out government rations to a large number of aged, sick and infirm also in preparing medicines for some of them. Then attended to and made up liniment for a horse which has fallen lame. Prepared hymns and tunes for Sunday. Served out the clean clothes in the evening after evening prayer.

Heard a horrid story today. Some blacks amongst others her own father [Paddy Smith], wanted a young girl [Sally] to have Wasa for a husband and because she would not they forced a large fishing net over her when naked and held her down in it, while the scoundrel forced her through the meshes of the net. It was at Meningie about two months ago this took place. They beat the poor girl cruelly.

And so on and on. Girls raped, women beaten to death, random spearings: you sort of get used to those reports in early documents.

A more comprehensive account can be found at http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/bennelong-papers/2016/04/genuflecting-savagery/ by my mate Tony Thomas. Don't show it to anyone at the Uni of NSW. Yeah, bugger it, go on.

Joe

Beach, another one of your rants! Are you seriously denying that it was not common practice for real estate agents, often acting under the direction of the landlord to refuse rental properties to people with "black skin" for no other reason than the fact they were black.
Only a few months back our Niece was looking for a 1 bedroom apartment in the Bondi area, she was taken to one place by the agent and while she was looking at it, he asked her did she have a lot of Aboriginal friends, She said, no I'm Kiwi. Niece is 30, has a good well paying job in the Eastern Suburbs, non drinker, non smoker and a member of the Mormon Church with references. Do you think if Niece was a blond, blue eyed Anglo Saxon girl, the real estate agent would be asking; do you have many Aboriginal friends, or was the agent one of your types and just applying due diligence to determine Niece's suitability or just a nosy B! An idiot as well can't tell the difference between an Aboriginal and a beautiful Polynesian looking girl She didn't like the apartment and had no trouble finding another near by.

As is common, when aunty (my partner) and niece go into a dress shop, staff watch them like hawks, I'll say something like "You two are being watched by the shop nazi!" while white women go unobserved around the place. I'll say; "You two darkies distract the staff, while this unobserved white redneck stuffs a couple of jumpers up his shirt!" They laugh at that one, I can get away with it.

Hi Joe, Redfern is no bed of roses, well not since the days of Dr Redfern, who had a land grant in the area in the early 1800's, that is for sure, a granduncle of mine died in Redfern living upstairs in a bed sit hovel, dead for 4 days before anyone found him. Recently a friend of mine had his electric wheelchair stolen from outside his place in Redfern (Xmas day). Then there is another mate, Aboriginal, looks like a character out of 'Croc Dundee' on a pension, takes his guitar down around Central most days, does a bit of busking, gets a few bob, buys a bottle or two, shares it with the tribe. then there are the boys who get the war paint on and do a "corroboree" down at Circular Quay for the tourists, a bit of extra dosh. The Aboriginal girls from Redfern who come to our 'Island Nights' great kids doing well at uni, went to ones 18th birthday party a while back, it was a good party, no trouble. For some just surviving is success, and they do what they have to, to survive in this life.

I suppose there are always two ways to deal with a crisis: blame whoever, Uncle Tom Cobbley and his dog, for the situation:

http://capeyorkpartnership.org.au/news/smallbone-report-past-wrongs-to-blame-for-aurukun-crisis/

OR

take all that into account and try to work out what the hell to do about it. As Marx wrote, more or less, the role of the chatterati is always to carp and whinge about a situation - the role of genuine progressives is to do everything they can about it.

I suspect that much of the fluffing around about 'Recognise Now!' is a regurgitation of the distant past and what might have, just possibly, been of some vague value 150-200 years ago. It's 2016. Oodles of water have flowed under the bridge, and it doesn't come back again. The past has happened and it can't be un-happened. A bit of whinging and carping is quite understandable but what do we do about NOW ?

Joe

Paul1405, <"You two are being watched by the shop nazi!" while white women go unobserved around the place. I'll say; "You two darkies distract the staff, while this unobserved white redneck stuffs a couple of jumpers up his shirt!" They laugh at that one, I can get away with it>

You and others with a sizeable chip of their shoulders like you ARE the problem.

Stop being so childish and stupidly provocative and oppositional (esp- to authority), embarrassing all around you and grow up.

Returning to your ridiculous, troublemaking, negative stereotype of property managers and owners, it is usual to expect that applicants for rentals have some proof of successful previous leases and a clean credit history. Or failing that, (say) in the case of young workers starting out, some evidence of student enrolment, employment, good character and again a clean credit history.

Again, it is those who go out of their way to breach contract conditions, are hard on properties and refuse to take normal care of them who threaten the viability of the rental industry and are forcing uo management, insurance and repair overheads and are thereby forcing up rents (and departures of capital from the industry).

Unfortunately Paul1405, your jaundiced self-excusing world views are representative of many of the serial protesters and self-entitled slackers the political mischief makers, to whom the Greens 'Protest' Party has appeal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH_MBwQhGgA

Main stream Media.
Two Australians shot on a drug deal in New Orleans.BIG NEWS.
Hundreds of Cairns kids pushed into prostitution.No news.
The Politically Correct brigade had a field day attacking the Churches.
No mention in Melbourne and Sydney about this scandal.
No wonder I watch RT News for world news.

OTB,

You may be very interested in these two commentaries on related issues, from a highly experienced legal professional:

https://c82ira-ch3302.files.1drv.com/y3mkTJ-HW7TWJVwlDFe5rfQ3FdP3SIs2GJi4_3RYOyiVXcbkrzu1z14HRic76V4I1FdGcc0FgacR5Q780oF3BOu5OUyUhy_Il4TJVsQKiYkScjuQdmIrYwzJkUHUHqzYeqc4bbU0DmwAUihBfdkPY8JUQ/Hilary%201.pdf?psid=1

and

https://c82ira-ch3302.files.1drv.com/y3mFYDkrRAVKPixpCg0CUhjZrSBBC2CjQcQdunstkrQACYVjr_lkdx44wkIYHVqFCaHz0qR91NZVELmik2ukGwPDznD_C47TkP9XG1Upq1fTQsJzPrRAabF7HwVtxLGyhQyUzZf2o-XbjaEDbGIYQ2K4w/Hilary%20II%201.pdf?psid=1

Both brilliant !

Joe

Joe (Loudmouth),

I enjoy the links you post. I couldn't open those though, sorry.

Beach, your attempt to mask your bigoted raciest attitudes is pathetic. Your claim that agents have an obligation to apply due diligence when determining the suitability of a prospective tenant, that at first glace reasonable, and I don't argue with that. Unfortunately in the past, many agents had the same raciest attitudes to Aboriginal people as you exhibit. It was common practice to simply apply the colour bar, white your in, black your out.

Beach, it might shock you, and come as a complete surprise, but many people do not want to meekly submit to that authoritarian police state you see as the ideal for society, with you and the like minded Jim Saleam, goose stepping all over others rights and freedoms, Fortunately you are only a member of the extreme right minuscule minority, which no thinking person would take seriously.

Sorry, OTB, those documents were pdf and I'm buggered if I know how to make them readable on Word or doc. or whatever, without paying Adobe.

Hi Paul,

I look forward to the day when you have something to actually say, instead of all that over-the-top diatribe - which is always a good sign that the diatriber has nothing left in his quiver.

We gave our son a deposit for a house 15-odd years ago, but he couldn't afford to live in it, so he put in tenants. Living a sheltered life, I had no idea there were so many drop-kicks out there: after each useless lot had decamped owing rent, we usually had to spend another few months repairing, re-painting, cleaning, getting the yard back to scratch, and so on - the equivalent of half-a-year's lost income, plus rates, etc., at least three or four times now.

The only consolations were that they lost their bond, and hopefully were put on a RE agent list of bad future tenants, branded on their foreheads with "D-K", and forced to live in tents. No, he has not yet had Aboriginal tenants, only useless white fellas.

Joe

Hi Joe, you may not agree, but I was only alluding to the fact that in the past Aboriginal people were excluded from the rental market for no other reason than they were black. Beach tried to mask that bigoted racism with the nonsense that agents were simply apply due diligence when excluding Aboriginal people from rental properties. There was no 100 point check list involved, it was often the one point check list, if your white your in, if your black your out.
Do you also dispute what I say?

Your sons property, unfortunately it is the case far to often.

Hi Paul,

No, of course not. But on the other hand, I recall that people on the 'Mission' tended to have a rather casual attitude to houses: one time, the Council wanted to knock three down and get Federal funding for three more brand-new ones, but I cleaned them up after work, over about three months, they were pissed off, but they had six houses. [Incidentally, a DAA bloke came up and we ascertained that the most crowded housing was occupied by the white staff. That also pissed off the Council no end.]

Another place was built in 1976-1977 with all the whizz-bang bits and pieces, solar panels (they lasted about six months) but that house was gone, jut a vacant block, by 1996.

But what with stereotyping, what you say is true.

Joe

Paul,

Certainly agents applied the colour bar as colour was a sure indicator of culture, particularly of a culture that has lots of brothers and cousins; letting the property to a member of that culture meant unsureness as to who would actually be living in the rented premises.

I have some beaut tales of "white" tenants in Housing Commission houses, like the family who never opened their front blinds, the local inspector paid them a call and found that the front rooms were a little mushroom farm (now-a-days the crop would be different).

Paul1405,

What you have to accept is that government, State and federal, have tried but cannot develop, manage or fund welfare housing.

Here is why,
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/trashers-and-abusers-keep-cheap-public-housing-despite-growing-dope-and-causing-destruction/story-fni0cx12-1226842198211

So government has been pushing its responsibilities onto the private sector.

However at the same time government constantly interferes in the market and handicaps the private sector with tenant friendly regulations (as in friendly to poor tenants NOT good tenants who end up having to pay for the cheats!) that government would not accept for itself.

What the left does is wage a class war on the hapless developers and providers of rental housing. It is idiotic and shortsighted to attack the very investors and creative talent that your own leftist governments, who couldn't make a go of a hot pie stand outside a building site, are relying on to make up for their own abysmal lack of planning, poor management and spendthrift ways.

Is Mise, nothing like a bit of stereotyping to reinforce racists bigotry. But we negate our black racism with a little anecdotal story about a white fella and his mushroom farm in the front bedroom of his public housing.
Then there is Beach, who can always be replied upon to supply a juice bit of negativity from the Murdoch gutter press. Then goes on to tell us how tough the likes of billionaire property developer Harry Triguboff is doing it, and we should all feel sorry for the hapless property developers. Here in NSW I would say developers are getting a very good run from the Baird Liberal Government.

So fellas what it to be, Beach is against public housing, and Is Mise don't want them in private housing. How many bridges are there for disadvantaged people to live under.
Sorry to disappointing you both, despite your tails of woe, many thousands of people have lived in public housing for years with no problems what so ever. Get that into your 'Daily Telegraph'!

Paul1405, "Beach is against public housing"

Bollocks! Precisely where do you get that from my posts? Provide the quotes.

Total fabrications, 'creative'(sic) storytelling and forum baiting are your tactics and always because you cannot dispel with fact and logic.

For decades, Labor governments' policies of a 'Big Australia' and endless diversity regardless of social costs have put intolerable stresses on infrastructure and housing.

It is impossible for federal and State governments to tip enough money into public housing to meet the demand the feds themselves are responsible for creating and have been sternly and repeatedly criticised for by their own Labor State Premiers.

To top it off, no-one in government is willing to address the spoiling and trashing of homes, private and investor owned, by tenants who damn well know better, but are also know that they can get away with it.

Where government itself cannot afford the costs and management overheads of feral tenants and such tenants are in increasing number due to feral tenant friendly regulations and Tribunals, why should the private sector be required to bear the risks and losses? -All the while the human headlines of the 'Watermelon' Greens 'Protest' Party and other serial protesters with their own secondary gain first in mind are playing political games with'negative gearing' and so on.

That should be,

"To top it off, no-one in government is willing to address the spoiling and trashing of homes, PUBLIC and investor owned, by tenants who damn well know better, but also know that they can get away with it"

Hi Paul,

Just thinking about public housing in Aboriginal 'communities', it' not so much that people trash houses but that people travelling around lob onto auntie or grannie, use her house, over-use the facilities, leave once the toilets block up, and let her clean up the mess, since, after all, it's not their house. And since some government department has obligated itself not only to provide a house but implicitly to keep it maintained, it's not auntie or granny's job either.

In my cups a month or so ago, I was arguing with a friend that any new housing provided for single elderly people in the NT should be fully serviced, kitchen, toilet, laundry, etc., but of only one bedroom, so as not to overload the tenant; visitors could use tents which would be available from Council offices for a fee - people can pitch them near auntie or grannie but have to use the common toilets. Hmm, yeah, right. So another bright idea died in the arse.

Joe

The problem with those new houses is that the builders never put the ventilation in the right place, leaving the inhabitants to have to remodel them, which they do and fast.

The policy says that the tenants are responsible for damage and they comply with that: house trashed, next?

Some claim Aboriginals were treated well. Below is a link with a historical photograph of 7 Aboriginal men in chains. The pic was taken at the Wyndham prison Western Australia in 1902. Can anyone explain what crime these men were guilty of which led to their imprisonment in chains.

http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/australian-aborigines-chains-1902/

p/s the 8th person in the photo is a white man standing over the Aboriginals, with a smirk on his face.

Hi Paul,

If you check out the Roth Royal Commission 1904, and the Moseley Royal Commission 1934, both in full on my web-site: ww.firstsources.info , on the 'Western Australian Page', you might find more details about that practice.

Chains were usually at least a yard long, weighing around half a pound, and left people's hands free. Usually men would be arrested to cattle-killing and brought in sometimes hundreds of miles, almost always by a single copper. So the journey might take up to a month.

Remember Paul, we are them, they were us. No better, no worse.

Joe

Hi Joe,

There seem to be an error in what you say; "Chains were usually at least a yard long, weighing around half a pound" Simply put in metric terms 1 metre weighing about 250g. that would be very light chain. The attached story gave a weight of 2.3kg with chain and neck iron would certainly be closer to the mark. The hands of the two front men in the photo are handcuffed, I assume all are handcuffed.

The chaining together of Aboriginal men in that manor, I do believe was harsh and discriminatory, even for 1902 standards, as white men were not treated in the same fashion and probably had not been summarily chained together since the last convicts were transported to WA in 1868. .

What did you imagine a chain gang, black or white, looked like back then? Would you have been the sole copper in charge of a number of convicts who were bound only by promises?

You are stretching credulity with your imaginings that those restraints were designed solely for indigenous criminals.

Chase up some photos of transported lags and their offences. Maybe you will be surprised. Then again, perhaps you'd ignore what doesn't suit your world view and activism.

Anyhow, this is another of your red herrings.

BTT

Hi Paul,

Well, yes, light chains. And no handcuffs - that was the point of the chains.

And the point about chaining was precisely for people to keep their hands free. Why chains at all ? With one copper, how else would he bring people in for alleged offences ? What would stop them escaping, especially if they knew the country ? If you want to bark, make sure it is up the right tree.

As for whites, no, they weren't chained, not even when out on work parties, since where could they run to ? Aboriginal prisoners were kept chained when they were out on work gangs, unless there were adequate guards. By the way, it seems that a working day on the gangs seemed to go for six to eight hours, depending on the heat.

As well as the Roth Commission evidence (1904) and the Moseley Commission evidence (1934), there was also the Wood Royal Commission of 1927, looking into what became known as the Forrest River Massacre. All three Royal Commissions went into the matter of chaining in detail. All on my web-site, www.firstsources.info, on the 'Western Australia Page'.

Incidentally, I suspect that many convicts in the earlier days weren't, and perhaps were never, chained, as in the stereotype. Some of my ancestors certainly were, but at least a couple would have been put into valuable positions early on.

Cheers,

Joe

The Black Armband view of history makes a virtue out of disregarding obvious comparisons with general conditions for similar others at the time. Convicts (Lags) were transported in chains and in horrendous conditions (being ships crew wouldn't have been a party either),

http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/res-08.html

http://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves10.htm

and some worked in chains after arrival. For example,

"The colony of Van Diemen's Land was established in its own right in 1827 and officially became known as Tasmania in 1856. In the 50 years from 1803–1853 around 75,000 convicts were transported to Tasmania. By 1835 there were over 800 convicts working in chain-gangs at the infamous Port Arthur penal station, which operated between 1830 and 1877"

http://www.australia.gov.au/about-australia/australian-story/convicts-and-the-british-colonies

Paul1405 conveniently disregards all of that. It doesn't suit the activists' jaundiced view of Australian history.

None of that calls into question but rather could support Joe's (Loudmouth's) very interesting observation about the practicality of light neck chains to prevent aboriginal convicts from escaping while under shorthanded supervision.

Not facts that guvvy grants might be allocated for research though. The relevant departments of universities would be aware of that.

A disturbing report by The University of Adelaide on the practice of chaining Aboriginals in Australia.

A few points from the report;

# chains were used on them (Aboriginal people) in policing and prisons from the early colonial period well into the twentieth century.

# In 1788, Governor Arthur Phillip instructed that an Aboriginal person (Arabanoo) be captured after he rejected Phillip’s offer to live with him. Arabanoo was caught in December 1788 and held in restraints for up to three months

# Police were paid an amount per prisoner, and brought in prisoners, witnesses and children using chains,

# Between the mid-1800s and early 1900s, an Aboriginal prisoner could anticipate being ‘neck chained’ from the day they were arrested until the day they left prison, sometimes for two to three years or longer,

# by the twentieth century, the contentious practice of neck chaining Aboriginal people in policing and prisons became a point for concern about, and criticism of, the treatment of Aboriginal people.

# the use of neck chains on Aboriginal prisoners was not phased out until the 1940s, and was still used informally in some areas until the 1960s

All serious allegations of unconscionable treatment of Aboriginal people, even by the standards of the 19th, and the first half of the 20th century.

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news75642.html

Paul1405,

So are you apologising and proposing to do what to make amends, because it was all your fault?

Or are you working up your demands and victim status?

Tough times back when. You should also be apologising and taking action to make up for your role in Forced Adoption affecting the general population and up to very recently,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_adoption_in_Australia

and for your role in the cruel, shabby treatment of Wards of the State, the Forgotten Australians,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Australians

Odd (no, it isn't really!) how you always forget the thousands from the mainstream population affected by Forced Adoption and the many hundreds of Forgotten Australians.

Don't they have any cachet as victims with the serially protesting Trotskyist Greens?

Hi Paul,

Yes, probably all true, at different times and different places. I don't think chains were used in South Australia, except perhaps for all prisoners on work-gangs.

By comparison, in SA, the last Aboriginal prisoner hanged was executed in 1862; the last non-Aboriginal prisoner hanged was executed in 1964. Make of that what you will.

So what do we do about it now, apart from acknowledging it all (which is the point of my web-site actually) ? Otherwise what's the point ? Everybody in the nineteenth century were bastards, is that it ? We, here in the twenty-first century, are pretty much all fundamentally different people, good and pure (except for Liberal supporters). No, I don't follow that line: they were us, and we are them. Same people, in different circumstances.

BTT: I hope that all of that past dreadful history is not going to be used as some sort of back-door, implicit justification for child abuse in remote communities ? Now ? Not 150-200 years ago, but NOW ?

Paul, nothing justifies child abuse. Nothing justifies criminal acts. Nothing justifies the brutal treatment of Aboriginal people, especially women and kids, even by Aboriginal men. And certainly not in 'communities' which experiences colonialism etc., least of all. Move on and face the realities of NOW.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Joe,

"So what do we do about it now, apart from acknowledging it all (which is the point of my web-site actually) ? Otherwise what's the point ? Everybody in the nineteenth century were bastards, is that it ? We, here in the twenty-first century, are pretty much all fundamentally different people, good and pure (except for Liberal supporters). No, I don't follow that line: they were us, and we are them. Same people, in different circumstances."

I agree, acknowledge the rights and wrongs of the past, learn from it where you can, and move on. With Aboriginal people the focus must be the future, as it should be for all of us. I want to see a unified Australia, not a divided country, with a them and us mentality as so many seem to believe in.
"Everybody in the nineteenth century were bastards, is that it?" Certainly not, Cook, Phillip etc, people to be admired for their deeds, as well as their human qualities. If attitudes and practices directed towards Indigenous peoples in the past,were more enlightened, more humane, if society had been fairer all round then we would be better off today, but it was not, and we cannot change the past. What we can do is improve the future.

Joe, nothing justifies child abuse. Nothing justifies criminal acts. Nothing justifies the brutal treatment of Aboriginal people, especially women and kids, even by Aboriginal men. And certainly not in 'communities' which experiences colonialism etc., least of all. Move on and face the realities of NOW

History is a fascinating subject, but it is not the be all, and end all, to solving the social, political and economic problems of today. Learning from it might help somewhat, but it is not the stand alone answer in itself.

Agreed

Every person and that includes the vulnerable such as children MUST be afforded the FULL protection of Australian law, with NONE of none of 'ifs' and 'buts' of the extreme political correctness of multiculturalism.

So too, ALL children MUST receive the same education curriculum as given to the mainstream population, NO 'ifs' or 'buts'. It must be incumbent upon a child's parent/s or carer/s to ensure that happens, or else they themselves may be charged with an offence.

There can be no excuses.

It would be totally irresponsible of government if it were to repeat the same mistakes of the Whitlam government.

The black curtain of secrecy and the self-imposed (reverse) apartheid that descended on indigenous communities and allowed criminals and thugs to bully and harm people, especially women and children and to waste, steal and wrongfully divert to personal uses the resources allocated by government (ie the taxpayer) must NEVER be allowed to happen again.

I strongly agree with Joe (Loudmouth) on the direction and policies that should be implemented. It is encapsulated in his concluding sentence,

"Move on and face the realities of NOW"

Just to point out the obvious, my "Agreed" and comments related to the post by Joe (Loudmouth), [Loudmouth, Friday, 15 April 2016 10:05:41 AM]