Hi there STEELEREDUX...

You mentioned a timeline where you suggested, Level 4 autonomous heavy vehicles may be operating up and down the Hume Hwy within 3 to 4 years?

I too travelled that notorious piece of blacktop, between Goulburn and Holebrook, and Goulburn via the Federal Hwy to the ACT border. Firstly in a 'very tight' squeeze, Cooper S and later, a 5.8 V8 Falcon. I understand much of the Hume has been thoroughly upgraded, and many of the more dangerous stretches completely eradicated, and replaced with wide concrete tarmac.

Some of the more horrendous fatal(s) have occurred along my previous designated patrols, and the thought of some heavily laden, multi-axle, articulated vehicle, without a competent human at the wheel, would resurrect many of those awful nightmares of senseless death and injuries occasioned against innocents, while travelling along those dreadful roads.

I'm all for science and technology, but I'd need to be very well convinced that a heavily laden truck without a human at it's controls, was safe enough to permit it to travel along many of NSW's main roads, autonomously?

"Computing for cows or kangaroos is quite easy in comparison"

Computing for cows may be easy but kangaroos are a different matter, as anyone knows who has encountered half a dozen of them on a highway at night.
The car would need to make 6 split second decisions x 6 to the 6th as the marsupial macropods changed their little minds and directions willy-nillly.

Dear Hasbeen,

Which Green?

As I have stated innumerable times on this forum I am neither a Green nor a Green voter, they have blotted that copybook a long time ago. However the fact that you thought that I was a Green, given the topic I raised, does tell its own tale and policies aside I would hold that most of their politicians are of a higher ethical standard than most of those from either of the two majors any day.

Dear Foxy,

You wrote;

“I can't answer what I would do at the critical
moment. It all depends on the curcumstances,
emotional conditions, and unforeseen physical,
mental, and other factors involved at the split
moment. Therefore, yes I do have a problem
answering your questions.”

Which is exactly why I asked “What is the ethical action?”. When faced with these situations who can ever say exactly what they would do. Probably the best we can say is 'I would hope I would do the right thing'. It acknowledges our limitations as humans but also the fact that we can recognise ethical outcomes and would strive for them if possible. If the correct ethical decision was recognisable and achievable wouldn't you want the AV to strive for it?

No I didn't catch The Brain but given your recommendation I will look for it on SBS On Demand.

Dear Loudmouth,

Facetiousness aside everything you say is fine but why are you limiting yourself to larger vehicles with drivers? Just imagine the utility provided by the 10 smaller autonomous vehicle that could be run for the same cost as your bus. The smaller size would mean the tight lesser roads could now be traversed, even driveways could be accessed. No more standing at rain swept bus stops, conforming your life to unfriendly and unreliable timetables, sitting behind view obscuring advertising billboards, in vehicles whose size prevent any reasonable traffic manoeuvring. Pine over the old days if you want but don't glorify them.

Dear Is Mise,

Yup. All perfectly doable right now.

Dear SteeleRedux,

Of course if ethical solutions were possible
to program into AV's I imagine all of us
would want them to strive for it. However I
question the possibility of it being able to
be done successfully. Although, with innovation
occuring at such a fast rate nowdays -
I guess anything is possible.

Dear o sung wu,

Your concerns are of course valid but I'm wondering if you could put your mind to what it would take before you would be comfortable with autonomous trucks. If they were shown to be half as likely to be involved in an accident for every 100,000kms driven is that a tipping point? Much of our improvement in road safety have come about by decreasing driver impairment from drugs or lack of sleep as you can probably appreciate. If the awareness available to an AV whether by its inboard systems like tire pressure or wear sensors, or its external sensors like radar, or its ability to communicate with other AV vehicles, was shown to be far superior than those of human controlled vehicles would that help?

I am also yet to be convinced but I am most certainly open to the possibility.

Dear tomw,

Thank you for your reply.

You wrote;

“If an autonomous car kills a pedestrian, then it is unlikely the occupants of the car, including the "driver", would be considered at fault. The car's manufacturer or the individual software engineer might be at fault, if this was a problem they should have anticipated. However, it may be that no one is at fault.”

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a no-fault accident as far as insurance companies are involved, why should it be any different here? However the fault may well lie with other parties such as road designers or works crews who will need to adapt to AV vehicles.

You say “It will not be the cars making the ethical choices, but those who program them.”

In one view you are correct but given the self learning capabilities already present in these vehicles we can also take the view that this is akin to teaching our children right from wrong. When they are infants that teaching is pretty prescriptive but as they get older good parents attempt to teach frameworks which will assist their children to make ethical decisions in scenarios that have not been articulated or contemplated.

Cont..

You also opined, “The public interest, is likely to be considered paramount, so no you will not be able to buy a car which puts your family first. Cars will be programmed to preserve the lives of a larger number of pedestrians, over a smaller number of passengers. In such a situation the car may be programmed to ignore manual input, just as cars are already programmed to ignore the driver if there is a risk of a rollover.”

Public interest should be paramount but there is ample evidence that it currently is not. Consider bullbars on 4WDs. Obviously designed to protect the occupant but devastating to pedestrians when they are struck. I think the debate on this is far from settled which is why I raised it.

Dear Foxy,

Thank you for the reply. You have acknowledge ethical decision making can be programmed into cars and that it is something we should strive for. Is this a tipping point for you? Should AVs be let loose on our roads without it?