Poirot, imagine where we might be had the billions in stimulus been spent on infrastructure, or on the other hand, it would have been wasted anyway just like the rest of their spending.

As for where w are today, it is really easy to be critical when you compare on the one hand, a government handed an economy in great shape, and on the other they being handed back a basket case.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY can save this place without serious big stick reform.

Also, as usual you have not read what I have said, just assumed I wish to see an axe taken to welfare. Quite the alternative as I don't want to see welfare slashed, just better managed and this can be literally done overnight be removing the cash.

Once the cash is removed, the waste will stop and many dependents will gain self respect and this will lead to more positive thinking.

Of cause the loosers wont be happy, but they're going to be loosers no matter what we do.

Welfare waste is my problem, along with the disrespectful way many recipients treat tax payers, drinking, smoking and gambling away their tax payer funded gift

rehctub,

"Poirot, imagine where we might be had the billions in stimulus been spent on infrastructure, or on the other hand, it would have been wasted anyway just like the rest of their spending."

Yes, just imagine!....critics of the stimulus yodel to the heavens about minor infrastructure such as "school halls" (a school close to me received 6 new classrooms, a canteen and a library)...let's face it, nothing would have pleased the critics infrastructure-wise or anything else.

"As for where w are today, it is really easy to be critical when you compare on the one hand, a government handed an economy in great shape, and on the other they being handed back a basket case."

Here you go again..."a basket case".

10% debt to GDP is not a basket case. You are going with the deceitful LNP "budget emergency" spiel designed to get people to vote for Abbott's 2013 leadership.

If 10% debt to GDP (the result of stimulus to successfully avoid a recession) is a basket case - then what is the LNP's 17% debt to GDP - delivered after slashing and burning hundreds of programs?

Why aren't you shrieking about a debt and deficit disaster this far into an LNP govt?

It's 7 percentage points worse than it was when they came to power.

rehctub, I agree we'd be in a better position if the stimulus had been spent on infrastructure. I think that's something that Kevin Rudd also agrees.

However, there's a very good reason why it wasn't: there were no shovel ready projects available. Infrastructure Australia was set up to try to prevent that problem from reoccurring.

Our economy is not a basket case; it just needs stimulating.

Taking the cash out of welfare would have the exact opposite effect as what you predict. Administration costs would mushroom. Recipients would be much worse off as they would be forced to spend their money where the government says, not where they can get the best value for it. That's also likely to disadvantage smaller retailers. And far from gaining self respect, it will destroy the self respect of many of the recipients.

We should setting fiscal and monetary policy to create jobs, not punishing the vulnerable because jobs for them don't exist.

Aiden, that's just not true.

The only restrictions would be gambling, grog and cigs, and perhaps a few more, and certainly a very strict limit on cash withdrawals.

The technology already exists so I cant see where the cost blowout would come from.

We must remember, welfare is a safety net provided to mainly support families, and every single dollar wasted is a dollar that a child or often a parent misses out on.

People have adapted to living on the likes of the dole, especially those who also work for cash on the side.

Time to move on because if people cant help themselves the big brother has to step in.

Poirot, the basket case I was referring to was the wonderful economy the libs left in comparison to the one they inherited just six years latter. Besides, how much of that 7% was pre committed by labor?

You seem pretty good at research, so here is your opportunity to prove me wrong.

rehctub,

"Poirot, the basket case I was referring to was the wonderful economy the libs left in comparison to the one they inherited just six years latter. Besides, how much of that 7% was pre committed by labor?"

We've been through this many times before.

On the one hand you say you support the stimulus in theory..you know, the stimulus that saved us from the recession most other industrial countries experienced.

They're the countries with debt to GDP anywhere from 40% to 80+%.

We avoided recession and ended up with debt to GDP 0f 10%.

So you appear happy to trundle along ignoring the fact of the global financial collapse. You're extemely happy though to yodel about the resources downturn as an excuse for the LNP driving our debt up by a further 7% - and now attempting to blame Labor for a portion of it even though they're are not now in govt.

Any comments about Costello presiding over the greatest export boom in Australia's history - giving most of it away in tax breaks and middle-class welfare (thereby leaving us with a huge structural problem). selling govt assets by the dozen and gold reserves...and only leaving us with $20 billion in the coffers?

Poirot, check my posting history, you will see my views on the stimulus. The first round incurred far too much waste, then, knowing this, they changed nothing.

School halls was a prime example. Nothing wrong with the idea, just no one there the monitor the builders, many of whom made millions unjustifiably. Same goes for the insulation, the experts gave their warnings, Rudd ignored them and lives were lost and, had Rudd been a CEO, he would be behind bars now.

As I have said before, the best laid plans are useless if you don't have the knowhow to implement them.

As for libs debt increase, are you trying to say that this is all due to poor management?

As for middle class welfare, what, do you expect these people to work hard, pay their taxes to help support the bludgers, and get nothing. You're kidding!

You know supporting those who either cant support themselves, or choose not to wouldn't be such a bad thing if they would just appreciate it. But no, they just sit there and complain about just about everything, the true blue under achiever tall poppy, the reason so many so called middle class cheat their taxes. The old 'why pay more tax, its not as if its appreciated' syndrome. Ive paid taxes all my life and raised my family with any support most of the time only to be told 'gee you're lucky'. What a joke.

Its about time people who contribute get rewarded and those who don't
loose the ability to waste their tax payer provided gift.