http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-28/teen-sues-victoria's-education-department-after-ongoing-bullying/7206170

So a 15 year old kid is holding the government to ransom and everyone just stands by and watches on?

He has tried to kill himself twice and he continues to harm himself because he is bullied at school about his sexuality. This is the undoubted reason for his destructive behaviour because he has told us so and no 15 year old could ever be mistaken about the causes of his own behaviour. It makes perfect sense to kill yourself because you are being bullied. Being bullied is absolutely the worst possible thing that you could ever experience in life and so no one could blame him for wanting to end it all. It is heaps worse than kids suffering from leukaemia or other life threatening and excruciating diseases. It makes being a 15 year old Syrian refugee whose complete family have been blown to bits seem like a piece of cake.

When is the media going to get some perspective on these issues and stop reporting these drama queens as victims of the state? He tried to kill himself twice. Is he seeking attention or just particularly clumsy? Where are the psychologists? Do they just take the analysis of a 15 year old kid and rubber stamp it? He is obviously a very disturbed person and not because he is bullied. There are many kids who are bullied just as much as him but never go anywhere near suicide. What is it about his mental state that produces such an exaggerated response?

He claims he is bullied for his sexuality and yet talks of being called useless and a pig as well so which is it? Is he the only kid ever to be called useless or a pig.

What the hell is his mother doing? It has been going on for two years and he still remains at that school? If it has been as bad as is claimed most parents would have moved to the moon to stop their kid from suffering like that.

phanto, I fail to see the relevance between kids suffering from leukemia, or a 15 year old Syrian refugee, and this kids problem. Your offhanded cynical comment about this lad is unwarranted, he has a defined problem, bullying. Legal action is a right which we all have when we think we have been injured in some way by another party, in this case the Victorian Education Department. What is your point? Possibly you are motivated by a homophobic problem of your own, or are you simply a school bully yourself, who feels fully justified in your own actions, given the bigger problems of leukemia sufferers and Syrian refugees.

Phanto, society as a whole is suffering badly from 'limp wrist syndrome' in my view as what is needed in many cases is a good old dose of harden the - up. How this stuff even hits the media is a sign of just what we have become.

As for the parents, very few 15 year olds would have the whits about them to do such a thing, so chances are the parents are behind this for some sought of money grab.

This will however be closely watched as if successful, may open a huge can of worms with kids, backed by cash strapped parents, suing government and even private schools as a hobby.

Political correctness has a big part to play here as well as so many gestures are considered to be sexists these days.

Ok I am a senior citizen and perhaps had a different time and life, when we didn't talk about recycling as we just did it. I never realised it was bullying when my mate and I were pursued by a huge amount of fellow students . It was just part of school life that some get picked on and others not. It didn't harm me rather it ended up creating me as a person I am. When I was in management in the 1970's I immediately banned anyone to use inappropriate words, call a person by a nick name, etc. This because I knew how it can affect person. Today one can be a sooky and end up no where. Today you can sue anyone for basically nothing and pretend it is serious. Yesterday I happen to incur a 10 centimetre wound on my arm that female staff member at the shop nearly fainted, so I just cracked jokes and another staff member then attended to me. No use of getting upset about all the blood. I grew up in a time when you had a spine. You didn't complain about every little thing. And the kids of today are to vulnerable because they are kept in cotton wool and cannot stand hardship in life.

Yes, Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, you're a real tough guy. Everyone should be as tough as you. I reckon everyone should be a captain if industry like you, if they're not they're lazy bludgers. Everyone should be top of the heap in everything and it's only because they're weak that they aren't. And what about those wimps who get sick and go to doctors, they should harden up don't you reckon? Getting beaten up and tormented in school so you're too terrified to go is good for boys...makes them real men like you.

Yes, lets all tell the teenagers today to harden up, well not while they're watching porn obviously.

Of course, trivialising a suicidal depressive teenagers feelings over being bullied and blaming the parents for not doing enough is the only way of dealing with this bullying non-problem.

Or so I've heard.

Douchebags.

There have aways been, and there always will be, bullies and victims. Bullies are nasty people with their own problems. Victims are people who have 'victim' written all over them for the bullies to see. Most of us are neither bullies or victims, and we have no obligation to bother ourselves with either of these poor, inept apologies for human beings.

What a charming thread....

ttbn,

"...Most of us are neither bullies or victims, and we have no obligation to bother ourselves with either of these poor, inept apologies for human beings."

This is the person who informed me that his username "ttbn" stood for "try to be nice".

Here's what he posted to Suse in another thread:

"Suse,

I doubt very much that you read anything at all. If you did, you wouldn't be as ignorant as you are, making hit and run statements without having a clue what you are on about. You are flippant and shallow."

From the evidence of his post above and his usual style on this forum it's more like "ttbn" stands for "try to be nasty".

.....rehctub,

"Phanto, society as a whole is suffering badly from 'limp wrist syndrome' in my view as what is needed in many cases is a good old dose of harden the - up...."

That's a bit of alaugh coming from OLO's biggest whinger.

"....This will however be closely watched as if successful, may open a huge can of worms with kids, backed by cash strapped parents, suing government and even private schools as a hobby."

Lol!...That's rich coming from the guy who's a bit vexed at the suggestion that his negative gearing tax break loll-about may be nipped in the bud. Nary a day goes by that he's not shrieking from the roof tops about some govt mechanism that is diddling him of some such largesse.

.....

Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka,

"...I never realised it was bullying when my mate and I were pursued by a huge amount of fellow students . It was just part of school life that some get picked on and others not. It didn't harm me rather it ended up creating me as a person I am."

Then goes onto say:

".... When I was in management in the 1970's I immediately banned anyone to use inappropriate words, call a person by a nick name, etc. This because I knew how it can affect person...."

What angers me most about this is the emotional manipulation, the dishonesty and the discrimination.

The kid was called useless and a pig. What has this got to do with being bullied because of his sexuality? He was called a faggot. Lots of heterosexual kids get called a faggot so how do we know that he is being bullied because of his sexuality? He was attacked by a kid wielding a skateboard. This is violence and should be dealt with as a violent act. It is irrelevant what you sexuality is if you are a victim of violence and to bring it up at all can only be a ploy to try and elicit sympathy for unrelated verbal issues which he does not like.

He says he tried to commit suicide because he is being bullied. There could be dozens of reasons why he tried to commit suicide. It is dishonest to suggest something as true when you have no idea whether it is true or not. What does a fifteen year old know about the complexities of motivation behind suicide? He could be very disturbed and depressed for a whole combination of reasons none of which might have to do with his sexuality. Kids who have no issues with sexuality also kill themselves.

Where is the outrage for kids who are bullied but do not have issues with their sexuality? Why is there no support for fat kids who get bullied to the same extent as this kid? Why don’t the media rush to defend their rights or even declare this issue no more important than anyone else’s? All this does is create a kind of elitism for kids with sexuality issues. If we care about bullying of kids in schools then we should care about all kids who are bullied.

The whole point of the anti-bullying program is to declare that everyone is equal but it seems kids with sexual issues are more equal.

the irony these days is just like the anti racist are the biggest racist, the peace protestors the most violent, so are the anti bullyist the biggest bullies. Just listen to the bigots on the abc who interview anyone they disagree with. They make Trump look mild with their sniggering and self righteous demeanour.

phanto,

".... If we care about bullying of kids in schools then we should care about all kids who are bullied."

Yes...

So why then are you isolating and discriminating against this young person and his stated issues with your diatribe on this thread?

Hi Poirot, looks like you and I and a couple of others against the usual suspects once more.

Butch, I was waiting for the call "Put them Nancy Boys in the ARMY!...toughen em' up."

phanto, just as I suspected, its not the bulling, its your homophobia.
<< it seems kids with sexual issues are more equal.>>

Person with long name "A bash around the head with a baseball bat never did you any harm. Normal school life was << when my mate and I were pursued by a huge amount of fellow students . It was just part of school life>> What, did they catch you and your mate in a toilet cubical together? Did you go to school with the usual suspects from this forum, phanto led the charge.
<< Yesterday I happen to incur a 10 centimetre wound on my arm that female staff member at the shop nearly fainted>> was it self inflicted to show that weak female how tough you are? Or do you work in the 'Shop Of Horrors'

Runner, Christ was a wozzy, if he was at school today the Roman bullies would be belting him up, he would be turning the other cheek...the wozzy!

Poirot:

“So why then are you isolating and discriminating against this young person and his stated issues with your diatribe on this thread?”

That is a very good question. I think I have actually got it wrong in trying to appeal to his and the media’s sense of fairness and perspective. It is actually a lot worse than that.

Of course every individual who is bullied has the same right to take the education department to court but along with that right goes a responsibility to tell the truth and to not try and emotionally manipulate people via the media or even in the courtroom.

This kid is doing just that. Either it is all coming from him or maybe his mother or even his lawyer - all of which stand to benefit if there is judgement in their favour. This could cost the taxpayers a lot of money.

If his claims are genuine and he thinks he has a good case for compensation then he should present his case without trying to emotionally manipulate the press, the readers of the article and anyone else who hears his story. He should trust the justice system to deliverer justice when a good argument is presented.

His behaviour and his words are simply meant to manipulate by dramatising, by lying and by trying to induce guilt where none is appropriate. If he has a genuine case then he does not need to resort to these tactics.

The media also have a responsibility to be fair to the kid and also the school and education department. They should present the facts as they are known and not the attempts to emotionally manipulate. Giving him a platform to manipulate others is irresponsible and akin to publishing propaganda. It makes it look like they are taking sides and that is not their role.

Hi there POIROT...

It's really great to see you back POIROT!

Anyway to the topic at hand - I don't like bullies or those spineless 'hanger's on' who generally associate with bullies, in order to reflect in their so called 'power', you all know the type, the noisy urger's, belittler's and sneerer's, all laughing from the sidelines!

In my time, I've observed many people being subjected to all manner of intimidatory behaviour, either verbally, physically or both. I've copped it myself from a boss who could only supervise through the medium of bullying, and it makes your life absolutely miserable to a point where I was considering asking him out to the car park, in order to settle this issue. Luckily for me, I was transferred and the problem was immediately resolved. Also in my former job, to assault a superior NCO or Officer can mean suspension with or without pay, even dismissal if it's considered serious enough.

All incidences of bullying are bad, it has such a deleterious effect on people, and lets face it life's hard enough. It's not a case of 'man up' or 'grow up' even 'toughen up', it's just a bastard of a thing to do to anybody in my opinion.

I believe that the young boy is now in a different
school and is quite happy there.

It is a shame that
the move wasn't made earlier and that the young man
had to suffer for two years.

Whatever the reason for
the bullying - schools are supposed to be responsible
for providing students with a safe and supportive
environment (and staff that are appropriately trained
to protect pupils from bullying and harassment.
This school failed in its job.

The mother has spent $4,000 dollars to try to rectify
the situation - to no avail. Putting the ring-leader
and his cohorts in the young boy's class did not help
matters either. What was the Principal thinking?
And why didn't the mother take her son out of that
school? Bullying must not be tolerated in any school.

Foxy,

Good post.

"....And why didn't the mother take her son out of that
school? Bullying must not be tolerated in any school."

That is a good question. However, in many instances, parents are intimidated by the system while simultaneously having some faith that the system, and the people entrusted to run it, will deliver justice.

Unfortunately that's not always the case.

Consequently standing up to principals and teachers often requires some courage and proactive behaviour...something which some parents find a bit of a challenge. Therefore, things tend to be allowed to just ride along until peak misery is attained by the victim, whence something is done to help them - if they're lucky.

Judging by the responses from many on this thread, they would be quite happy to be themselves mercilessly lampooned and threatened...they seem to think it's a sign of macho weakness to call bullying out.

Hi o sung wu,

I eventually caught up with your earlier post concerning me on another thread - and replied to it.

Hope you're keeping well.

Cheers

I think it comes down to low emotional intelligence.

A boy is "raised" by his parent[s] to watch whatever rated movie he likes and to play whatever shoot-em-up game he can get his hands on. He is not taught to care, not taught to be respectful and not taught to 'live and let live'.

The bully is obviously unsure of his place in the world and wants to enforce his desires through haunting the live's of others.

I agree that all bullying is undesirable, I just question the timing of the article. Any victim of bullying should be able to correct what went wrong, but I don't like how the media will pick and choose what cases to report based on what they think will sell. Either someone (all) being bullied is (are) newsworthy or none of it is.

To some extent I agree with Poirot and Paul.

The child has the right to attend school without facing physical violence and abuse.

However, I understand that public schools are extremely limited in the punishment they can mete out to the offenders. As I mentioned in another thread, the schools my kids went to were private school and at both schools there was very little bullying.

The reason is simple, both schools worked on a zero tolerance towards bullying, and bullies were given one warning then expelled. Public schools may not need that level of punishment, but the inability to discipline teenage thugs endangers not only the children, but the teachers too.

Of course, all bullying is wrong, and teachers should be keeping an eye out on it in the playground. How hard can that be ?

Bullying and teasing is already far too common, and always has been. I was little for my age, although devastatingly handsome, so I used to get picked on a bit, especially by the bigger kids who were ambivalent about their 'true nature'. But being very social, I hung around with a cohesive group of all the bright and funny kids, which got me through.

ALL kids have been teased or bullied at one time or another. And if we're honest, all of us have at some time or other, teased some other kid. I used to tease a Dutch kid in one class, on the very mistaken belief that Dutch were really Germans and thereby all Nazis. I'm quite ashamed of it now: but how could I think that a country that produced Audrey Hepburn be remotely Nazi ? What an idiot.

But I don't recall the boys who never seemed to have any interest in girls being especially NOT bullies. Or vice versa. Sorry, too many double negatives: I do recall that the boys who had an interest in girls did not stand out particularly as bullies. There was one kid in high school who I thought was, let's say ambivalent about girls, who slashed my bike tyres, the prick. But after all these years, do I still bear any grudges ? Bloody oath.

Joe

Mr Gerrit, I'm a senior citizen too and I can recall those days when people had spines and didn't faint at the sight of blood. Well, the girls didn't. In biology class, when you had to prick your finger to test your blood type .... Guess who ended up on the floor? The boys!

The thing that really disturbs me about this thread is the rush to negative judgement on a child, when none of us here can possibly know what the real story is. That in itself amounts to something very like bullying.

So you were tough, so bullying never hurt you. Well, bully for you. That does not give you the right to pontificate on the deleterious effects it could have on a child about whom you really know nothing.

My family has a history of being bullied, temporarily.

As my father told it, he started at a new school and was picked on before he even had time to take off his school bag.
Some of the other kids said to the bully to let him get his bag off but the dad said that he didn't need to take it off for smug like the bully.
Short sharp exchange of blows and the bully had had enough.
A few days later when the Grandfather opened his gymnasium the bully no doubt had cause to think.
I was bullied at school but the bullies were careful to operate out of sight of the teachers, two to one is always difficult so I waited my chance and got each of them when alone. End of story.

When I first started work on the NSW Railways I was bullied by an older but smaller boy.
Every afternoon he let my bike tyres down and every afternoon I pumped them up, by the end of the week there was an audience and my tormentor then made the mistake of hitting me.
When he had been reduced to tears I turned to the assembly and said "I never hit a smaller person than me first"
Never had any more trouble.

My children have had similar events and results. None of them have ever been bullies but rather champions of the littilies and all were impressed never to dob anyone in, as was/is the policy in public schools.

I went to 17 different schools. Eight of these the first couple of years when dad came back from WW11. Being small I was bullied at each school change.

Teachers ignored it, & I usually had to fight the age group bully within a few days, in a ring formed of students, similar to those of patrons, that were common out the back of pubs in those days.

After I came home bloody a couple of times, dad taught me to fight. I mean fight, not box. After that I could usually take care of the bully, which gave them a problem. I was not interested it taking the roll myself, & they were discredited.

One thing I noticed was that the bullies avoided the school football teams & such. I made a point of becoming good enough to make the football & cricket teams, as a quick way to acceptance at a new school.

Back then bullying was mostly physical, & only hurt for a while. Today it appears to have a nastier edge, & does more damage long term. I do believe many teachers avoid their responsibilities with bullying, preferring to walk the other way, & not see it. Such teachers should be made personally answerable for this attitude, & be included in funding any compensation awards.

On the other hand, those girls who complain of bullying on social media do have a very simple answer, & should use it.

Cossomby, I have conducted since 1982 a special lifeline service dealing with people contemplating suicide. Far too often all they needed was someone to talk too and to show them that everyone has up and downs in life. Some people still contact me thanking me for being there when they needed someone to listen to. People are often too weak and hence too often suicide seems to be the easy way out. This mentality needs to be address so people will realise that without the downs in life you do not understand the ups in life. The best way, at least in my view, is to shown to someone who contemplates suicide is to ignore it and view the bully so to say as someone who has a mental deficiency who needs to bully others to make himself/herself important. Putting someone in cotton balls isn't going to do it.
As some commentators made clear we all at times suffered at the hands of bullies and may have bullied others.
In todays society kids are in my view too weak to deal with ordinary living conditions. Parents are denied to discipline their children (and I do not refer to corporal punishment) and those kids become adults often too weak to deal with life's problems. We seem to get a society of wimps where anything that goes wrong is a major life obstacle. And none ever went ahead with suicide. Some remain in contact with me for over 3 decades, just to let me know how they are doing. People often are in despair because no one is there to show them an alternative. If we all were more alert to our neighbour than far less suicides would eventuate

I was a bully at school, I don't recall ever picking on a kid because of this or that attribute or for that matter defecit, my victims (if you can call them that) were selected on the basis of how much they were willing to put up with.
Basically because the core of our group at tech school were big, strong and confident we'd attract the smaller weaker boys who couldn't fend for themselves, they became subservient to us in exchange for hang around privileges.
The real bullying came in the form of pitting the weaker kids against each other, egging one on, pushing one to the outer for no reason and ganging up on him, playing favourites and all manner of sadistic mind games and physical abuse.
We had kids in the school who were slow, who were very poor, disabled and a few who were "pansies" but there's no sport in harassing them and you'd never want them in the gang anyway, better to have smart but weak kids who have a bit of pride in themselves.
I don't know, we were blessed with girls so I'm up with what goes on in all female cliques but I have no idea of the state of the art in male bullying at present, the girls don't seem to have changed much across the generations so I'd assume the boys gangs operate in much the same way.

Good evening to you POIROT...

I'm sorry I must have missed your reply contained in another, earlier Topic, it seems to happen more than usual lately? Though I've undergone several testing sessions at the Repatriation Hospital in the last 2 or 3 years with the neuropsychologists, they claim I have a gradual onset of age related Dementia. Which according to them will have very little impact, other than some 'minor memory disruption', whatever that means? That said, I'm going along quite well, thank you for asking.

Someone said, all children should be able to attend school without the fear of being bullied, and I couldn't agree more. I was fortunate at school, I played Rugby League in winter and Cricket in the summer, and as my mate HASBEEN said, that type of activity tended to insulate you from the ordinary school bullies. Most of them for one reason or other, weren't all that interested in sports per se., which was quite amazing really?

o sung wu,

My reply was only made the other day, quite sometime after you posted on the thread about me...so it's not surprising you didn't see it.

Yep...although I was bright enough academically, being good at sport was my saving grace too at school. I played cricket (although back then the girls weren't allowed to. I'd spend half of lunch hour playing cricket with boys and the other half on bin duty because I'd played cricket with the boys) Also played kick-to-kick footy with the boys and netball and softball with the girls. I surfed on the weekends because we lived near a beach.

Funny how physical prowess makes others look up to you...don't ya reckon?

Bugsy:

Which one is not bullying – a. Useless, b. Pig, c. Faggot, d. Douchebag ?

Cossomby:

“The thing that really disturbs me about this thread is the rush to negative judgement on a child, when none of us here can possibly know what the real story is. That in itself amounts to something very like bullying.”

We know what we have been told in the article and we presume that is the real story. If we cannot presume that much then it is pointless ever discussing what the media tells us.

It is not bullying to criticise his behaviour in response to what he has called bullying and his opinions. If he wants the attention then he has to be prepared to accept that not everyone is going to feel sorry for him or agree with his analysis of the situation. From the story we can tell that he lies, dramatises, and manipulates. None of these are endearing qualities. If he thinks that people are just going to ignore all that then he is very naive indeed.

In a court of law he would be considered a very unreliable witness.

Prebs:

“Either someone (all) being bullied is (are) newsworthy or none of it is.”
This is a very important point and the media should be called to answer for it. Perhaps the editor has a personal agenda to push which is an abuse of their position.

Foxy:

“This school failed in its job”

That is for the court to decide. Perhaps he was the real problem. Maybe he was such a bully that the other kids did not know how to deal with him so responded in kind. The school may not have been able to handle him. There are lots of possibilities that could have occurred and need to be considered before jumping to the emphatic conclusion that the ‘school failed in its job’.

Well it all depends on context, doesn't it phanto.

I'm weally weally sowwy if the poor widdle phanto feels soo bullied by the big bad bugsy :(

Maybe you should change schools.

phanto,

The young person was bullied - he obviously has some psychological trauma to deal with as a result.

Why would you surmise:

"....Maybe he was such a bully that the other kids did not know how to deal with him so responded in kind. The school may not have been able to handle him. There are lots of possibilities that could have occurred and need to be considered...."

There was no indication in the article you posted which suggested anything of the sort.

On the contrary:

"Ms Whitmore went to police and eventually took out an intervention order against her son's tormentor.

In a letter entitled "ongoing bullying of Nathan Whitmore" seen by the ABC, Mr Lloyd stated the school "dealt with a number of incidents over the last two years involving 'harassing and bullying'."

So your flights of fancy in attempting to paint this kid as anything but a victim are just that - flights of fancy - driven by goodness knows what in your sneering attitude.

We have to ask: "What is your problem?" - that you can put the rhetorical boot into a young man for bringing school bullying to wider attention.

Weird!

School bullying, or pre-school bullying in its early stages, is simply the beginning of what society accepts later on as normal, be it work place bullying, domestic violence, violence in sport, animal cruelty, gun violence, state sanctioned violence, right up to nationalised violence on a world scale...war!
The answer is human society needs to reject all forms of violence, both physical and mental, and embrace pacifism.

Don't worry phanto, the judge will simply read that article you linked and bring down his verdict. Isn't that how it works?

Jay, they could have made a move of that. Have you ever watched 'Rompa Stompa' I have.

Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka <<I have conducted since 1982 a special lifeline service dealing with people contemplating suicide.>> What did you do, show them that 4 inch slash in your arm? Interesting.

Joe, "I was little for my age, although devastatingly handsome" I can't let that pass without comment. Compared to what? The rear end of a rhinestones! LOL.

Foxy has summed up correctly once more;

<<schools are supposed to be responsible
for providing students with a safe and supportive
environment (and staff that are appropriately trained
to protect pupils from bullying and harassment.
This school failed in its job.>>

And any self respecting judge will take that on board when making his or her's decision, and not simply phanto's link.

To all the self assured “toughen up” proponents....there are those among us who are not psychologically capable of toughening up. They are not wired that way and the inability to understand that is either bravado or sociopathic behaviour on behalf of the detractor.

Don Mclean penned a song about Vincent Van Gogh, perhaps the most prominent of suicide victims. Don’s most perceptive line of that song is “perhaps this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you.

The want to self harm is a sickness, not a choice.

people forget we are part of the animal kingdom and like it or not, bullying is here to stay. I don't condone it, but I accept facts as they are.

One major shift in modern society is the gay movement coming out of the closet as this has brought much of the verbal bullying upon themselves. Again, im not defending the bullying, it's fact.

As for schools not doing enough, you can blame the do-gooders because they have removed the right for just about ANYONE to discipline kids, including the police to a large extent.

Many knew this would happen, even warned of the consequences, but the Do-gooders surged ahead, so we are what we are and the sooner you accept that for every action, there is a reaction, the sooner you will be able to move on. The reaction in this case is the unruly kids with no real disciplinarians to speak of and the situation worsens when mum/Dad/Mum don't give a toss.

You wanted it, you got it!

As for Poirot anticipated comments, negative gearing is an essential tool in the fight against affordable housing and if you don't believe me, just wait to see who is right if and when they have the balls to change it, especially if labour gets their way.

Pre Ng an investor only purchased a rental if the returns were about 10%, whereas now they are more like 2-4% and NG takes up the slack.

I say go there by all means, BUT ONLY if you are prepared for the fallout. And believe me, it will be huge.

But as for bullying, if we really want to address this we have to stop focusing on the victim and act on the offenders, but, as I've said, many of these people go about their bullying ways pretty much unchecked due to modern day societies approach to just about everything. Bullies are pretty much untouchable, and they know it.

A massive winding back of the clock is whats needed and this would take years/decades. We are what we sow.

Bugsy:

So you were bullying but you would like to change the subject to make it about my sensitivity? If you were not bullying then why do you feel the need to change the subject and to throw in a little sarcasm while you are at it – just another little show of your aggression.

Poirot:

Foxy said the school had failed its duty. I didn’t agree because at the moment we do not know all the facts – we only have the article. Is it totally impossible that there are other facts which have still to come to light of which I presented a possible example?

What is wrong with any of this? It is called argument. You do not know for certain that there are no other sides to the picture and yet you have already agreed with Foxy. Why bother having courts or trials at all if all we need to do is to read the paper?

I don’t think he is bringing school bullying to attention – he is just bringing himself to attention.

One day the light bulb we go on that it is not a very bright idea to put 30 kids of the same age in a classroom and expect them to get along. It is also very obvious that since not being able to given any effective discipline to kids has been outlawed, bullying has increased in massive proportions. Many high schools punish bullies by sending them home to play xbox all day. Its called suspension. While bullying has always taken place the regressives again have created a massive problem and then blame everyone else. They encourage kids to experiment with sex at a young age and are stupid enough to ask why we have problems. They have been dumb enough to promote porn and argue that what you see does not affect behaviour. Their own behaviour defies this logic. They refuse to cane but ask why 11 year olds spit in parents face. The regressives again by and large and created zoos instead of schools and wipe hands of any responsibility. Usually the dogma and Christophic natures require turning their hatred and bigotry on anyone standing for any decency. They are in fact the bullies.

Is name calling bullying, phanto?

If yes, then what is being called a liar and dramatiser and manipulator? You've never even met the kid. You don't know how the story originated and yet in almost the same breath you say, 'we don't know all the facts', so we should reserve judgement. On the school, not the kid, according to you.

So if my name calling is bullying, who was my victim and what were the consequences of that? Your sensitivity to my name calling is definitely an issue in this, if you feel so weak and threatened by me, please let me know and I will stop.

Alternatively, your name calling had a definite target, it was quite specific and if he ever read your little diatribe, I would expect some definitely negative consequences on his psyche.

Who is the bigger bully?

Hi there POIROT...

Talk about rekindling fond memories of school? You played kick-to-kick footy with the boys? I don't recognise the game as such, but in NSW we played (usually in the street) a thing called 'forcing back' with a rugby league footy! It sounds very similar to your 'kick-to-kick'? Essentially there were no rules, nor minimum or maximum numbers on each team.

Each team had to gain as much distance as possible with a single kick. Thereafter the opposition had to return the kick, wherever they (first) retrieved the ball. By taking the ball on the full, reduced the distance thus proved a distinct advantage. We generally commenced roughly in the middle of the street, and off you went, taking you life in your hands as you had to dodge the odd car in the process. Many a passing vehicle had the occasional football bounce of their roof or windscreen!

I guess anybody who played Aussie Rules would be far superior with their kicking skills, over us Rugby League guys. Gee they were great times I reckon. Imagine playing such a game today in a public street?

And you're right, those at school who tended to excel at sport were rarely the subject of bullying, whereas those poor buggers who were academically gifted, occasionally copped it for no other reason they did well in class? Golly we humans are a funny lot with our petty jealousies and stupid juvenile designation of schoolboy superiority.

Bugsy:

For someone who claims to have done nothing wrong you are going to a lot of trouble to defend yourself!

Poirot:

“We have to ask: "What is your problem?" - that you can put the rhetorical boot into a young man for bringing school bullying to wider attention.

Weird!”

What is weird is that you ‘have’ to ask what is my problem. The forums exist to debate issues and present arguments and counter arguments in the hope of getting nearer to the truth. All you need to know is what my arguments are. The forums do not exist to pander to your voyeurism.

my daughter was actually bullied/harassed into homeschooling by an Indigeneous boy who no one wanted to deal with for the fear of being labelled racist. He bullied a number of girls and I know the problem now is a lot worse than it was back in the early 2ooo's. It seems that sometimes racism triump over bullying or sexism triump over dv or whatever the social engineers want to highlight on the day.

phanto,

What is wrong with any of this? It is called argument...."

It's not called argument.

It's called "supposition".

That is what it is when you make-up your own scenario - a scenario that doesn't tally with the known facts.

Like these facts:

"In a letter entitled "ongoing bullying of Nathan Whitmore" seen by the ABC, Mr Lloyd stated the school "dealt with a number of incidents over the last two years involving 'harassing and bullying'."

"Ms Whitmore went to police and eventually took out an intervention order against her son's tormentor."

That evidence points to this young person as being the victim of bullying - not the perpetrator - as you are surmising...and also suggests that the mother had to seek recourse "outside" the school to stop the torment.

.....

runner,

You finish your rant on this note:

"....Usually the dogma and Christophic natures require turning their hatred and bigotry on anyone standing for any decency. They are in fact the bullies."

What's your excuse then? If you're so imbued with Christ's message - why do come onto this forum and regale us with the antithesis of his ethos?

There are myriad reasons why our school system and societal paradigm fails our young people - why do you put all the blame on progressives?....as if belting kids with a cane is the answer to the problem?

You rant and blame and accuse...there is no wisdom or humility in your own message.

.....

o sung wu,

Yep...kick-to-kick was just that. A group stood on one side of the oval and another group stood on the other...and there would be several balls and you'd all try and get one so you could kick it back. All of which was quite fun, at least until the boys got bigger and I was still quite wirey and small - and they landed on me one day when we all went for a mark - and I realised I'd have to stop playing or I was going to get hurt.

'There are myriad reasons why our school system and societal paradigm fails our young people - why do you put all the blame on progressives?....as if belting kids with a cane is the answer to the problem?'

still in denial Poirot. One does not need to be Einstein to see the decline in every standard in schools and the increase in bullying since the regressives influence increased more and more. Your rant certainly displays zero wisdom and certainly no humility as usual.

phanto,

You have a right to go off on a tangent on this subject - and I have a right to pass judgement on your conjecture.

For instance:

"... Perhaps he was the real problem. Maybe he was such a bully that the other kids did not know how to deal with him so responded in kind. The school may not have been able to handle him. There are lots of possibilities that could have occurred and need to be considered...."

Pure supposition on your part...not even an "inference".

Not anywhere near a working hypothesis - as you are not drawing your data from the known facts included in the article which "you" submitted for discussion.

By all means present an "argument" - not a pile of confected rubbish that you make up to support your penchant for attacking this young victim....if you don't wish to be taken to task

o sung wu
Got bullied at school so my old man hired a couple of big kids to waylay me on the way home. This went on till I learned to fight back. No more bullies at school.
Got bullied at Duntroon. Trapped a couple of the seniors in Canberra and used a web belt on their heads. Let the classes know who did it and no more bullies.
Got bullied at the Academy. Stuck a .38 so far down a bullies throat he puked all over me. No more bullies there either.
I don't think the weak should be bullied but I don' think they deserve to be mollycoddled either.

A lot of kids get bullied at school at one time or another, and I think growing up can be a challenge learning how the world works.
I didn't get any support or financial compensation in grade three when my teacher used to throw the chalk duster at students (myself included) or lock us in her office cupboard or when bullied a few years later in grade 5 (and not just verbal abuse - constant threat of being beaten up), and other times during school years but I never complained to my parents nor did I whine and try to get out of going...
Parents are supposed to teach their kids to fly, yet many just fall from the nest and go splat. Nice job parenting there...

Why should I care if this kids gay and gets bullied for it.?
What about the millions of other Aussie kids that were bullied before him?
Why should I care or have sympathy if some perverted 15year old boy wants to have sex with his male classmates...
I don't know what schools you guys went to but doing this IS AS MUCH ASKING FOR IT as anything.
That's how kids are or maybe some of you have gotten so old and wise that over time, you all forgot.
If you can't accept the reality of this, then I guess taxpayers will have to start paying for homosexual exclusive schools.
..Another taxpayer expense to support the whining pc crowd.

Schools havent changed, and nor have kids.
There's a local school I know of where they asked kids to wear a special coloured t-shirt to protest and say 'No' to bullying.
Can you guess what happened to the kids that wore the shirts?
- Yes they got bullied more just like painting a target on their backs.
What did they expect?
Hard to believe these fools actually went to school at all.

If you feel so strongly about it and want to be a protector of your child then enrol then in some self-defence... Like Krav Maga.

Hi AC,

The morons who devised this idiotic initiative have forgotten that everybody, such as everybody on this thread, goes through ten or twelve or more years of schooling, mixing with all sorts of other kids, and - by the sound of it - most of us getting picked on at some time or other. Kids are nasty little beasts, they do that, especially to anybody who seems weaker.

Morons ? Too harsh ? I don't know: as you suggest,

"There's a local school I know of where they asked kids to wear a special coloured t-shirt to protest and say 'No' to bullying.
Can you guess what happened to the kids that wore the shirts?
- Yes they got bullied more just like painting a target on their backs.
What did they expect?
Hard to believe these fools actually went to school at all."

That had me cackling in advance of the punch line :) 'Well, DUH.'

The Trots have always been utterly out of touch with reality, so it's no surprise that one of them, in a typical brain fart, has momentarily devised this stupidity.

It's like being at a circus where every act, every trick, every bit of acrobatics, goes belly-up. Wouldn't be dead for quids !

God, I'm still cackling every time I re-read your comment, AC. So unbelievably dopey.

Joe

Lol!...nothing changes around here!

There's Armchair whatever telling us:

"Why should I care or have sympathy if some perverted 15year old boy wants to have sex with his male classmates."

Employing that logic, one assumes Armchair thinks if the young man was straight, he'd be wanting to have sex with his female classmates.

He continues to wax lyrical:

"I don't know what schools you guys went to but doing this IS AS MUCH ASKING FOR IT as anything."

Never mind, young man wasn't "doing" anything...or that again we have a poster using his own warped imagination to invent an MO for him...because Armchair invents then the young guy is "asking for it".

And Joe slaps him on the back for his puerile vacuous rant.

Hohoho!

The amazing thing is that many here who claim to be the victims of bullying in their youth....are the ones displaying the least empathy.

Just imagine!.... a round or two of merciless bullying in one's youth will turn all those kiddies into people just like them....how irksome.

Poirot:

So what is your excuse?

Hi Poirot,

I didn't say any of us liked getting bullied, just that we've probably all been through it. Perhaps you were home-schooled ?

You suggest that ".... Employing that logic, one assumes Armchair thinks if the young man was straight, he'd be wanting to have sex with his female classmates."

Well, yes. What's your point ?

I didn't deliberately slap AC on the back just for his puerile vacuous cant but more for his accurate anticipation of the outcomes of some unbelievably dopey brain fart of some Trot school principal.

Let's have a competition: who can suggest the stupidest slogan for a kid to wear on a T-shirt ? Here's some:

* I'm quite opposed to bullying

* I'm sick of being bullied

* Please stop bullying homosexuals

* Bullies are just using their superior strength over weaker kids

* Bullies are all homos anyway.

or a more Trot one:

* End Bullying NOW !

Yeah, that should make them think again.

Thanks anyway, Poirot,

Joe

Joe,

"You suggest that ".... Employing that logic, one assumes Armchair thinks if the young man was straight, he'd be wanting to have sex with his female classmates."

Well, yes. What's your point ?"

You know what my point is...that Armchair is assuming a gay person wishes to have sex with his classmates...because he's gay - and then using that "warped" assumption to say the kid is "asking for it" - is pure invention.

I'm calling out Armchair's ridiculous assertion...something I note that you failed to do.

(Excuse me if I ignore your silly T-Shirt humour...I prefer my wit a little more sophisticated:)

Hi Poirot,

I'm sorry about my silly humour, I should realise that OLO is a serious web-site. My apologies again.

As for your observation:

" .... that Armchair is assuming a gay person wishes to have sex with his classmates...because he's gay - and then using that "warped" assumption to say the kid is "asking for it" - is pure invention.

"I'm calling out Armchair's ridiculous assertion...something I note that you failed to do."

That's probably because I don't find it ridiculous. I'm certainly not saying it's inevitable, but it certainly happens, or at least did in my school days. And when you knocked those blokes back, then you got bullied. The curse of handsomeness, I suppose, but balanced by the adoration from some of the girls [I wish]. We all have our crosses to bear.

What ? Homosexuals being bullies ?! That such a thing could happen ! Yes, indeed, Poirot. It's a complicated world.

In fact, what makes you think that this current Trot 'initiative' in schools won't give homosexual kids, or kids who don't quite know what they are, or could be, or who or what they are attracted to, a sort of Dutch courage to bully other kids, with the Trot school principal watching their backs ?

I wonder what proportion of school principals are homosexual. Perhaps only the bullies.

Joe

G'day there CHRISGAFF1000...

Your solution sounds like a plan. I was fortunate, as I indicated in a previous thread, I played League (left prop) and cricket in the summer, therefore got generally left alone. Moreover I was a pretty big bloke (hence my spot in the forwards) and that helped. In third year, I got into a bit of push and shove, with this bloke who happened to be a bit smaller then me.

So off behind the 'bubbler shed' we both proceeded, accompanied as you were, by a small crowd of his and my supporters, and it was a case of 'wham bam thank you mamme', and I ended on my face sucking up gravel behind the bubbler shed - I was thoroughly vanquished and demeaned worse still, in front of my mates !

The next (decent) stink I was involved, was outside the Redfern RSL. My opponent, a large gentleman with a distinctive, darkish pigmentation, who was a well known regular with Jimmy SHARMAN and his troupe, and liked nothing more than following the latter around NSW, provided he wasn't a guest at 'HM Ranch - The Bay'.

His first couple shots put me down, where he proceeded to slip into me, with the 'Florsheim's'. My offsider from the truck who was currently occupied putting another slug in the back of the F150, had tried to drag him off me with little success - The result, I was off work on sick report (actually compo) for 7 days with the realization, you can rarely ever win a blue, while wearing 'blue'? Once 'designated' and in plain clothes, one learns the more subtle points of the 'Mexican Hat Dance'.

You see the gays think they can just go out there and change the world to suit them, and think the rest of us will just accept them as normal. Well, it simply wont happen and perhaps this kids misfortune has been brought about by the fact that gays are so flippant about the fact that they are gay. The old monkey see monkey do.

I have no doubt there is a link between gays coming-out and the increase in bullying. Although I would suggest the word bullying has taken on a new meaning in the past couple of decades, thanks in large to the PC brigade.

Every child encounters bullies during school, it is unavoidable and can teach tolerance to difference. Though bullies never learn to accept difference. I had to change school at seven from attending a Catholic school because I being protestant was excused from attending Mass once a month. I do not think it damaged me long term, though at the time it affected the first few weeks at the new school as I threatened children who conflicted with me, who later became my best friends.

The school could hardly be responsible for what happens with knives outside school. We have anti-bullying program in N.S.W. schools yet every week we have violent clashes in the streets of teenagers.

When I was about 6 there was this (to me than) big boy who used to hit and kick me time and time again, that I often was not attending school. One day I had enough. I went to him and kicked him in the but and quickly walked off. He came after me and started on me just that a teacher saw this. After that he became my best friend because he held he was strong but I was smart, having waited for the right opportunity that the teacher would see him but not what I had done.
sometimes outsmarting a bully may have the desired result to stop bullying.

It is a myth that it is always the stereotypical beefy bully boy and that bullying is mainly or always physical.

That is a consequence of the positive stereotype affecting women and girls and favours homosexuals too by default. No lesbian could bully because she is doubly unlikely being female and homosexual, or could she? If she was 'multicultural' and not one of those hated 'whites', she would be absolutely immune from any accusation of bullying. PC says so!

Have a look at the federal Senate and the Labor's Leader in the Senate, Penny Wong. Now (with sarcasm alert glowing red), there would be no chance whatsoever that Penny could be a bully and she would never be rude and turn her back on others while they spoke.

It is shattering how almost everyone goes along with the PC quite unthinkingly and without question. Have we been so conditioned by the all pervasive Oz PC to act that way? Are we are so brainwashed that we don't even realise, or use our own critical facilities any more?

It is time that all of this PC was called for what it is, absolute bulldust - make that cowdust, which is more appropriate in PC Oz.

In schools it is so often the clever, well-off child and his/her clique, likely supported by their gossiping clique parents, who are favoured by teachers and administration and are behind the lion's share of the bullying. They are too smart to get caught, as those who react to them find out. True, others mimic them, but they are the drivers and puppeteers. Anyhow, most teachers and administration would prefer not to deal with that problem because the parents if challenged are so good at the 'dark arts' and 'have contacts'.

Ask at Preschool, school and beyond and the astute teachers will tell you that it is the children of professionals who have little time for the children themselves, who never set boundaries (lest they lose the child's 'friendship'), buy anything to placate and want the teachers to take over their role by setting boundaries.

contd..

Yes, there are the others who fall outside of this generalisation. The children of fatherless homes may have special problems, for instance. Especially where mum has male invitees staying over.

Many of the bigger, most difficult problems I saw in my last years volunteering at schools came from the increasing throttle-hold of PC, such as the policy that a teacher couldn't even put an arm around an upset student as a comfort, and from the increasing number of litigious parents (and their urgers).

Australia's culture has changed and not all for the best, unfortunately, as the socialist 'Progressives' continue to dabble with their social reengineering and all the while ignoring and refusing point-blank to accept any responsibility for the unforeseen negative consequences. They are like bulls (ahem, cows) in china shop.

u r spot on otb

runner,

You are kind.

Apologies to all for another typo, "critical facilities" should be "critical faculties". A poor excuse, I am always in a rush.

Hi OTB,

I suppose we have to constantly fight to maintain the right - of all of us - to freedom of expression. We must be able to offend each other with complete impunity, to get each others' backs up, to stir each other up, to get under each others' skin, and most certainly to express opinions which some little delicate flower might find that they don't fully agree with.

Offense is the essence of an open society, one could say. We should each make a rule that we offend and insult at least one person each day, otherwise what's the point of life ? A robust society is a healthy society. A society with no variations in opinions is bound to be a fascist society.

Long live OFFENCE !

Joe

Why do we need to know that this kid is homosexual? What difference does it make to his case?

He was bullied at school and he reported it. The school has failed him so he is taking the education department to court. That’s all we need to know. All he has to do is give evidence that he was bullied, that he went through the proper channels and he is not happy with the outcome. His sexuality has got absolutely nothing to do with it. Bullying is against the policy of the school full stop. The exact same policy and procedure applies for any kid who is bullied. The policy and procedure covers everyone whether they are homosexual, heterosexual, fat, geeky or tall. No one needs to know why the bullying happened they just need to know that it did happen.

If you murder someone the court does not need to know why they just need to know that you did it. So in this case they have no reason to want to know he was homosexual or that he thinks the reason for the bullying was that he is homosexual.

Why would he need to tell the school he was homosexual? Why does he need to tell the media he is homosexual? Why does he need to tell the courts he is homosexual? It is totally irrelevant to the case.

It must be a ploy to gain attention. Perhaps he is not sure that he is homosexual and is trying to convince himself. Perhaps he is trying to align himself with the victim mentality that is often displayed by homosexual people in order to elicit sympathy. Why would he need sympathy if he has a good case to take to court? Perhaps he does not have a good case and is trying to emotionally manipulate the court and bully them with the help of his new found friends in the media?

"Why do we need to know that this kid is homosexual? "What difference does it make to his case?

But, phanto...if he hadn't made it known he was gay, then you wouldn't have been able to devote an entire thread to denigrating him.

Think of all the pleasure you've had running him into the ground.

You've dedicated thousands of words to fabricating all kinds of scenarios and pasting them onto that kid....for the mere glee of putting the boot into someone of whom you disapprove.

Beyond the call of duty...but somebody's got to do it!

Loudmouth (Joe), "Long live OFFENCE !"

Too right.

How to feed the factory overproduction of lawyers though?

Poirot:

"But, phanto...if he hadn't made it known he was gay, then you wouldn't have been able to devote an entire thread to denigrating him.

Think of all the pleasure you've had running him into the ground.

You've dedicated thousands of words to fabricating all kinds of scenarios and pasting them onto that kid....for the mere glee of putting the boot into someone of whom you disapprove.

Beyond the call of duty...but somebody's got to do it!"

OK lets just say I have done all those things - now can you answer the question?

Just wait - THE STATE WILL BECOME THE NEW BULLY OF DIFFERENCE!
Totalitarian Marxist. Normal behaviour will become abnormal and abnormal behaviour will be the new normal. To personally define it differently to the State is the new criminal offense. You will be taught how to think. Freedom of ideas and speech is a primitive form creating conflict. Only the State has the truth and you will bow to the State.

Hi Josephus,

I think we may be some way yet from a totalitarian Marxist state.

But, as a sort-of-ex-Marxist, I'm fascinated by the evolution of the intellectual and bureaucratic classes, and of their ideologies. Since they are neither investor nor producer in capitalist societies, but merely the parasites who live off both capital and labour - and I'm not saying that many can't play a positive role if they ever put their mind to it - there may be an inevitable tendency to sit back and snipe, criticise, bring down, subvert, etc. the pillars of the very society and economy that gives them breath.

Yes, it's a childish response of the powerless and uninvolved to those who are daily involved in putting bread on the table, on THEIR tables too, while they pass the time in all manner of paper-shuffling and mind-farting positions involving real salaries for bogus work - a sort of hostile dependence, one could call it.

At its extremes, this childish approach involves a constant search for ways to cripple the society and economy that supports them. One is reminded of the story of the frog and the scorpion, of course.

Meanwhile, the rest of society and the economy try to get on with the job of building the country, paying their taxes for the parasite classes, and raising their children as best they can. Ah, so there are the tears in the fabric that can be exploited by the idle and well-supported intellectual elites. Hostile dependence !

You know it makes sense !

Cheers,

Joe

'Safe Schools' is the experimental stuff of Marxist sociologists. Using school children as guinea pigs in a social experiment.

Schools and the State interfering in (young) private lives and coming between parents/carers and pupils. There are some very disturbing issues,

http://tinyurl.com/open-letter-Safe-Schools
"Open Letter to Prime Minister Tony Abbott on the Safe Schools Coalition Australia program"

Gee, is this forum turning into a form of communist lovefest or what?

I believe some famous communists were some of the biggest bullies of all time...Lenin, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim Jong-il, Ceausescu...and who can forget the charming Pol Pot?

Personally, I preferred to read about the Bourgeoisie class and the Romanov family in Russia in my history lessons, although I must admit I am currently enjoying 'War and Peace' on TV, so does that count?

Suseonline,
We have all, all along believed you admired Totalitarian Marxism.

"Suse,

I doubt very much that you read anything at all. If you did, you wouldn't be as ignorant as you are, making hit and run statements without having a clue what you are on about. You are flippant and shallow."

Hahahahahaha That is just such a bullseye.

Suze always strikes me as a Kyle and Jackie O listener who gets her view on most things spoon fed to her by Waleed on the Project.

As you were.