Qld Labor formed government with the support of an independent.

Doesn't Labor screen its candidates? Now this has happened,

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has sacked MP Billy Gordon from the Labor Party over a string of undeclared criminal offences in a decision that puts Labor's minority government in jeopardy...

Mr Gordon, the member for Cook, has not revealed yet whether he will quit parliament which would spark a by-election in his far north Queensland seat of Cook...

Billy Gordon's charges and convictions:

Breaking and entering and stealing in 1987 in Innisfail
Breaking and entering with intent, attempted breaking and entering and stealing in 1990 in Atherton
Breach of probation in 1992 in Atherton
Public nuisance in 1996 in Normanton and breach of bail conditions in 1999
Driver licence suspended for unlicensed driving in 2004 and 2008
Served with an Apprehended Violence Order in 2008 after a complaint by his mother
Mr Gordon issued a statement last night that revealed a criminal history dating back to the 1980s that includes break and enters and an apprehended violence order taken out by his mother.

He had been in the spotlight during the first week of Parliament after his former partner also alleged she was a victim of domestic violence."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-29/queensland-premier-annastacia-palaszczuk-sacks-billy-gordon-mp/6356718

Labor spinmasters will be working overtime. There is already a hot glow showing over George Street.

OTB as far as I'm aware the parties don't have legal access to peoples criminal records and rely on stat decs to cover a range of issues. I could be wrong about that.

If he has deceived his party over his criminal history then there are valid grounds to sack him.

I get the impression from what I've read that the AVO was served on the basis of a complaint, not a proven case. There are also untested allegations by a former partner. Not really sure how I would like to see them dealt with. We have been over that particular issue plenty of times on OLO and I'm always nervous when penalties are applied to someone on the basis of claims that have not been tested in court.

I support people standing aside/being stood aside from positions of trust while allegations are tested in court but overall don't believe an allegation equals guilt. Shades of grey in that, my views tend to vary a bit depending on the weight of evidence available.

The LNP certainly struggled in their term with a few members who were in my view unsuited for public office. I don't know how the parties can deal with effectively up front, the telling point is how it's dealt with once the issue comes to light.

R0bert

RObert, even if he didn't actually threaten his mother or the other woman, surely the other crimes would still ring alarm bells for the job of a politician?

I agree that this guy should be sacked from politics altogether.
Surely politicians should be made to follow the same procedures as many other jobs require...a recent police clearance.....before they are accepted into the party?

Maybe the problem would be that there wouldn't be many pollies left standing if they brought in that requirement right now!

What do you know.

I had never thought of Anastasia as amusing, however the sight of the great lump, on the news tonight was straight comedy.

Yep standing there stamping her foot, like a petulant teenager for the news cameras was pure Faulty Towers stuff. "I instructed he be dismissed from the party" as if anyone would be hearing her over the laughter.

If those Romans had just had Anastasia in the closing years of the empire, they would not have needed that costly circus to distract the population.

Suseonline, my personal opinion is that a history like that should either stop someone from being a member of parliament or be required to be declared to the electorate prior to the election but neither appears to be what the law requires.

Plenty of alarm bells get rung by what's reported but I'd rather see the law changed than specific individuals be dealt with as exceptions.

I hope the premier is acting from conviction rather than expediency, no easy way of telling at this point in time. A party not dependant on an independents support but needing every member they can get might be inclined to make a different choice about sacking a member in a similar scenario.

R0bert

Hasbeen, I don't get it. What's so funny? And what do you think she should've said or done after discovering this cockup?

R0bert, I'm not sure such a history should be an automatic reason for complete exclusion from Parliament in every circumstance, since people do change and sometimes good people act badly under great pressure. However, given the recent debacle with the PUP in Ferny Grove and now this, it seems there is certainly justification for mandatory vetting of candidates to be more rigorous than it seems to be at present.

However, I'm very much with you that acting against people on the basis of allegations that have not been proven is not acceptable.

It's unfortunate that in today's world, that is often a principle observed more often in the breach.

With those credentials that bloke would fit right in down here. The Labor and Liberal Parties in New South Wales would welcome him with open arms. In fact with that CV I'm sure he would be in line for the Premiers job. If he's out of work, he should give Eddy or Brad a call, that's 1800 CORRUPT. LOL

AVOs are usually given on allegations alone and it is up to the recipient to have them lifted, vexatious AVOs are not exceptional.

What are you on about, Has Been?

Finally we see a politician show some integrity at the risk of loosing own her job. I didn't see any laughter or circus.

If Palaszczuk didn't sack Billy Gordon you would have probably been one of the first to jump on the beat her up bandwagon.

Annastacia Palaszczuk is not one of my favourite people and I didn't want Labor to win in Queensland but it's only fair to give her, or anyone else, credit for doing the right thing under tough circumstances. I respect her now, whereas a few months ago I thought she was dopey.

The title of this discussion has been set at -
"No attention to detail."

Perhaps that is what we should do - take a look
at the details involved. When exactly was this
serious contact with the criminal justice system
made? Is it current? And was the man a Member of
Parliament at the time?

We also need to look at how well has he served his
electorate since becoming a Member of Parliament.
Has he committed any criminal act in the process?

There have been quite a few MPs from all sides of
politics who have done questionable things both in
their pasts and whilst in office. Scott Driscoll
LNP Member comes to mind (for fraud) and didn't
the previous Premier Newman have any well-hidden
nasties. to name just a few MPs.

Full marks on the current Queensland Premier's reaction
to this latest furphy.

However, I think that the rest of us should wait and see
what develops next and what else comes to light before
making judgements. He is the Member for Cook and one of
the first Indigenous Members elected for a generation.

If the man has done nothing wrong since coming to office -
and is seriously trying to make the best of his life now -
surely he should be given a chance to do so.

BTW: I'm not trying to excuse his past actions - I'm simply
asking that we do give attention to detail and examine
all of the facts before passing judgements. Lets leave
politics out of this, if we can. (Liberals - good,
Labor - bad).

Just a suggestion.

I believe anyone who has a criminal history of breaking and entering; driving while disqualified (thumbing their nose at the Law & Court); and/or poses a threat to the mother's well being, is not someone I would vote for. I also don't see how a person's ethnicity comes into picture, without being racist (racially biased against or racially biased to excuse).

Convicted crooks should be kept out of Parliament regardless if they are reformed or not. Politics corrupts the best of people, a person with a history of dishonesty would most likely succumb to the temptation at the first opportunity.

Perhaps it's time all politicians are made to declare their criminal records openly, and if the record puts off the voters, so be it.

Personally, I don't think a people with serious criminal convictions should be entitled to receive welfare payment either. Imagine someone of Gordon's ilk managing to stay in Parliament long enough to be entitled to the political welfare benefits the MP's receive.

ConservativeHippie, without considering why they have a history of dishonesty, and indeed why they ceased that dishonesty, I don't think that assumption about them being likely to succumb to temptation is sufficient justification for removing their right to stand for parliament. And it is worryingly reminiscent of the situation where corrupt governments have their opponents arrested on trumped up charges and prevented from running because of that.

And removing their entitlement for welfare payments would likely result in much more crime as some of them would perceive they had no alternative.

For comparison and refer in particular to the then Opposition Leader Annastacia Palaszczuk's criticisms in final three paras,

<Qld minister quits over alleged car licence bungle
Updated 17 Apr 2012,

Queensland Police and Community Safety Minister David Gibson has resigned from his portfolio in the first hit to Premier Campbell Newman's Cabinet.

Mr Gibson quit late on Monday - no more than two weeks after being sworn in after the LNP's landslide win over Queensland Labor - after revealing he allegedly drove a car while his licence was suspended.

He says he will be taking some leave over the next few weeks to consider the incident.

Mr Newman released a statement saying he had accepted Mr Gibson's resignation.

"Late today Mr Gibson informed me that in November last year, due to an unpaid speeding fine his driver's licence was suspended for three months," he said in the statement.

"During that time, it is alleged Mr Gibson on one occasion drove a motor vehicle and will now face a possible charge of unlicensed driving.

"Mr Gibson maintains he was unaware of the correspondence informing him of his licence suspension.

"However, Mr Gibson knows of the high standard I expect from my ministers, and so he has tendered his resignation, which I have accepted."

Queensland Opposition Leader Annastacia Palaszczuk says the resignation is a complete embarrassment to Mr Newman.

"This must be the rockiest start to a government in Queensland's history. I've never heard of anything like this happening before," she said.

"The Premier must explain why he (Mr Gibson) didn't pay his traffic fine, which dates back to November last year, and secondly the Premier must explain why the Minister was driving unlicensed.">

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-16/qld-police-minister-david-gibson-quits/3953832

Dear Aidan,

I agree with you.

What you say makes sense.

What politician has not committed acts of
stupidity in their past - including our
current Prime Minister. We should not
throw stones (although the occasional
pebble may be overlooked). ;-)

contd..

An independent lawyer's view on LNP David Gibson's indiscretion, that the then Labor Opposition Leader Annastacia Palaszczuk criticised so sternly and demanded his head for,

<Solicitor Andrew Wiseman has represented scores of people who lost their licences after being suspended by the State Penalities Enforcement Registry (SPER).

He says it is a common occurrence.

"Tens of thousands of Queenslanders per year do get put into this position either by way of SPER or demerit points, but it is basically a case of regardless of how the suspension came about - this guy has simply forgotten to check his mail," he said.>

Aidan, are you old enough to have ever watched the Bobby Limb show?

In that Dawn Lake had a regular skit with a Sadie the cleaning lady character. A favourite was the bit where she would say, "and I says to him I says", or the reverse, "and he said to me he says". Some weeks it was both.

I can not listen to Anastasia being interviewed without holding my breath waiting for her to make such a statement, it would be so in character. Of course, not being a masochist, I no longer listen to her interviews, if I can avoid it.

However in this interview it was her obviously wanting to stamp her foot, like a petulant child, that was so funny. Labor have an unfailing ability to chose dreadful leaders, but in Anastasia they excelled themselves.

On just that, don't ever start on who has put more criminals in parliament Foxy. Up here Labor has had a leader & a deputy leader both convicted of paedophilia. This bloke is nothing compared to them. He's just a woman beater, unlicensed driver, & a break & enter merchant.

'. Up here Labor has had a leader & a deputy leader both convicted of paedophilia. This bloke is nothing compared to them. He's just a woman beater, unlicensed driver, & a break & enter merchant.'

come on Hasbeen Tony punched the air 40 years ago and that got far more coverage from the abc/sbs. And lets not forget about Gillards captains pick.

runner,

"come on Hasbeen Tony punched the air 40 years ago and that got far more coverage from the abc/sbs. And lets not forget about Gillards captains pick."

That would be the air he encountered directly before he made contact with the wall on either side of Ms Ramjan's head?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/barrister-backs-womans-claim-of-abbott-intimidation-20120912-25svh.html

Seeing as we're into comparisons
here's another one:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/former-lnp-mp-scott-driscoll-changed-with-fraud-soliciting-commissions/story-fnihsrf2-1227082794404

cont'd ...

And on more:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/ten-reasons-to-remember-the-newman-government-unkindly,7235

It seems that Queenslanders did remember.

How they will judge the current state of affairs
now remains to be seen.

To understand what is happening in Queensland requires some familiarity with the history behind accountability and anti-corruption in that State.

However to cut to the chase, the shock defeat of the Newman government owed a lot to the protest vote from the Labor Opposition demonising the government and its leader Newman as 'suspect'. Some here might remember (it would be difficult to forget) how Tony Fitzgerald injected himself into the fray immediately before the poll, encouraging a protest vote (which would have been aimed at Labor too presumably if they were in government). Fitzgerald had a broader agenda. His criticism was bi-partisan he said and the solutions bipartisan.

Labor's Anna Bligh tried the same approach, demonising her political opponents as corrupt, even referring Mr Newman and his family to the Crime and Misconduct Commission. Newman was cleared, but Anna Bligh didn't apologise. Bligh lost that election, but Newman was smeared for the electoral period and through Labor advertising.

Annastacia Palascszuk has made a lot of claims and promises to put integrity before politics in Queensland and if her statements before the election are forgotten there is always the four pages of promises made to Independent MJP Peter Wellington to get his support to form government in the first place,

http://media.apnarm.net.au/116.8/img/media/pdf/letter_to_nicklin-r1gauqikyana7hahmj2.pdf

Regarding the idea convicted criminals should be denied access to welfare; Aiden writes: "And removing their entitlement for welfare payments would likely result in much more crime as some of them would perceive they had no alternative."

Or, they could get a job like the rest of us and be a positive contributing member of society.

If you are saying criminals don't reform then I stand by my comments that ex-criminals shouldn't be allowed in Parliament as the temptation for corruption will be too great.

ConservativeHippie,

Why are we singling out this guy? I mean all politicians have probably done something criminal or morally wrong - who knows when. Seriously, I think people need to have a re-think on this one.

Are all politicans 100% innocent - morally or legally? No. Get serious.

Too many politicians are being thrown out by party leaders over petty things like accepting bottles of wine or having dinners with others. It's called petty politics - and the taxpayer has to foot the bill for expensive by-elections.

Spilling some wine at a dinner? Eating junk food, sending a bad message to youth? Getting a speeding fine? Not getting on with your annoying next door neighbour? Something else?

The Queensland Premier has given the impression more background checks are needed on election candidates - maybe, but I would argue against judgement until someone is found guilty - but clearly she's won your vote - and I would argue this 'demand' is nothing more than a publicity exercise. If she truly believes in what's she's said, will she have all of her party members checked by police?

ConservativeHippie,

Many of the opportunities your generation had are gone. Even with no criminal record, many people find it difficult to get work. With a criminal record I'd expect it to be much harder.

I'm not saying that criminals don't reform; Many do. I'm saying that your policy would deter them from reforming, as reducing the opportunities they have to go straight would cause more of them to reoffend.

Nathan, the reason 'this guy' Gordon is being singled out is because he shouldn't have run for office in the first place. Had he told the Labor selection committee, when asked "Is their anything in your background we should know about" he must have deceived them. It was inevitable this would all come out, especially as he wasn't paying his child support and threatening his ex-wife. Call me crazy, but this fellow's track record, which is undeniable, shows a distinct lack of respect for the Laws of the Land. This is not the kind of person anyone wants in a governmental decision making capacity.

I agree with you that all politicians need to be better vetted. It would be great if we had a choice of the Best candidates rather than the choice between the lesser of two evils. The more full disclosure we are aware of, the better decision making opportunity we have. People who have a past history of crime may have reformed, but we should at least be privy to their past if they want our trust.

Aiden, I accept that denying welfare to ex-cons is harsh but if such a policy were adopted, over time, say ten years or so, people would know one of the consequences of adopting a criminal life is the possibility they will not be eligible for welfare in the event they become convicted felons. I don't pretend to have all the answers and I realise it is easier said than done. However choosing a life of crime is optional; we don't have to reward bad behaviour.

Hi Nathan,

Yes, it must be tough for ex-petty-crims to find work. In this case, perhaps he should have been content to scab a job on a garbage truck until he retires, rather than as a member of Parliament.

I'm trying to recall any Labor or Liberal politician - apart from Obeid or Darcy, etc. - who had a record like this:

* Breaking and entering and stealing
* Breaking and entering with intent, attempted breaking and entering and stealing
* Breach of probation
* Public nuisance
* breach of bail conditions
* Driver licence suspended for unlicensed driving
* Served with an Apprehended Violence Order after a complaint by his mother
* Domestic violence (2)

Yes, as in the G. & S. favorite,

"When the accoster's finished jumping on his mother,
He lives to lie a-baskin' in the sun."

Or a-gettin' into Parliament.

I recall various politicians, one trying to import a colour TV in one case, and a teddy bear in another, and - not to minimise such vile crimes - they don't come within cooee of those listed above.

Couldn't some Labor hot-shots in the Cairns or Cooktown area have asked around beforehand, or better still, kept in constant and close touch with the relevant community ?

I suppose, once bitten, twice shy.

Joe

yep as I said before Tony punching the air 40 years ago is more important than these crimes. Labour/Greens/abc in WA is putting politics above child abuse in Indigeneous communities. Why should this surprise us. Yes many in Liberal are no different (full of self interest) except the national broadcasters would hammer them out of existance instead of protecting them.

Hi Runner,

I don't think we should minimise the crime of punching a wall, or leaning aggressively on one. The ramifications of leaning on a wall can be quite serious. But the full quote from Gilbert and Sullivan's 'Pirates of Penzance' should gives us heart, no matter how irrelevant it may seem in this case:

When a felon’s not engaged in his employment
Or maturing his felonious plans
His capacity for innocent enjoyment
Is just as great as any honest man’s
Our feelings we with difficulty smother
When constabulary duties to be done
I'll take one consideration with another
A policeman’s lot is not a happy one.

When an enterprising burglar’s not a burgling
When the cut throat isn’t occupied in crime
He loves to hear the little brook a gurgling
And listen to the merry village chime
When the coster’s finished jumping on his mother
He loves to lie a basking in the sun
I'll take one consideration with another
A policeman’s lot is not a happy one.

I hasten to point out that there is no evidence whatever that Mr. Gordon is now, or has ever been, a cut throat. But, on the other hand, while I had high hopes for a Palaszczuk Government, at least to give it a chance, maybe its throat might as well have been cut.

They used to call it 'due diligence'. Do it forward. Do it twice each time.

Joe

What I find particularly interesting is that the left whingers that pilloried Abbott for an unconfirmed accusation by a political rival of punching a wall are lining up to defend a man convicted of a string of crimes including assaults on his partners. This man is a low life grub, and those that defend him are hypocrites of the highest order.

The long and short of the saga is that Labor seriously screwed up. He is AP's Craig Thomson, except that he has already been convicted of crimes that are far worse than the petty larceny of Thomson. What is worse is that this was no secret among those PG had worked with previously and his pre selection was an omission of rank stupidity.

PG is unlikely to resign from his his guaranteed high paying job, AP will have to accept his vote to govern, and this will be a ongoing reminder to everyone of Labor's incompetence and sleaze. It is a gift to the LNP that will keep on giving.

Here is an article written by
Amy McQuire- which in my opinion is
a well-written and balanced one and gives
rational people food for thought.

It's always a good idea to look at the various
aspects of an issue from different sources
because nothing is ever as simplistic
(except for the simple-minded) in complex
situations or - just black and white.
There usually are shades of grey in between.

Amy writes that "if" Gordon is guilty of domestic
violence (and it's a big "if" because his ex-partner
who filed the charges - was advised by the Liberal
candidate running opposite Gordon in his area). Howver,
"if" Gordon is guilty then clearly he must resign.
If not - there is no reason to remove one of the few
Aboriginal men in Parliament.

Two breaking and entering charges that he committed as a
teenager, charges for which he was under no legal
obligation to disclose amounts to very little, according
to Amy.

It's better to get all of the facts before making
judgements. For those interested in getting the
full background - the following website will help:

http://newmatilda.com/2015/04/02/hunt-billy-gordon

Foxy,

I was unaware that you were prepared to turn a blind eye to wife beating. Now that a second partner of BG has come forward, news that he was investigated for misappropriating funds, failed to file tax returns or pay child support as well as 2 x breaking and entering convictions, we don't just have a single misstep but a re occurring pattern of poor behaviour. While I would like more aboriginal representation BG's character is so flawed that he is not fit to be an MP.

I look forward to BG as a constant reminder of criminality in the labor party.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Why would you assume that I would be "prepared
to turn a blind eye to wife-beating," when I
clearly cited Amy McQuire who write that
"If" Gordon is guilty of domestic violence he
clearly must resign."

Perhaps, you don't like the fact that the accusations
of Gordon's "domestic violence," charges were brought
about under the advice of his Liberal Party opponent?
Sound familiar (Slipper case)?

Ah well, the things they do for political gain.

As far as Mr Gordon is concerned - he has not been
convicted of the offence and the allegations of domestic
violence have been referred to police by the Premier.
And rightly so.

We should let the judicial process take its course before
making judgements. And allow Mr Gordon the decency of -
"Presumption of innocence."

I'm sure you agree! ;-)

cont'd ...

Dear Shadow Minster,

As for your looking forward to Billy Gordon
being a reminder of the "criminality of the
Labor Party?"

Then perhaps this may also help to jog your
member:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jan/29/crash-through-campbell-newman-may-have-said-sorry-for-the-last-time

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/former-lnp-mp-scott-driscoll-charged-with-fraud-soliciting-commissions/story-fnihsrf2-1227082794404

Foxy, you are desperately trying to pretend that it was only the one incident, however, his long criminal record precedes him.

Breaking and entering 1987
Breaking and entering 1990 (as an adult)
Parole violation conviction 1992 (as an adult)
Public nuisance conviction 1996 (as an adult)
Driving without a license conviction 2004 (as an adult)
Driving without a license conviction 2008 (as an adult)
Investigation for embezzlement
Failure to pay child support (admitted)
Domestic abuse partner 1 accused
Domestic abuse partner 2 accused.

etc etc etc.

Foxy, wake up and smell the roses.

I think the article posted by our resident defender of the down-trodden is a far cry from balanced; the author, "A Darumbul woman from central Queensland, Amy McQuire is the former editor of the National Indigenous Times and Tracker" clearly had an agenda of defending Gordon simply because he is Aboriginal.

From the article we read: "In Australia, Aboriginal kids are not told they will grow up to be Prime Minister, or a Senator or Member of Parliament."

"The fact he was elected to a seat with a sizable Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander population - one of the only seats where the views of our people can have any real impact in the political process outside of the Northern Territory – made it even more significant."

"As Aboriginal voters, we are used to casting a ballot for people who have no understanding of our life experience, or for people whose policies are directly in competition with our interests."

"But when Aboriginal people are elected to public office, they are held to a higher standard of accountability."

To her credit - "If the allegations are proven, it is obvious that Billy Gordon should resign. No man charged with domestic violence should be a member of Parliament, especially when family violence is crippling Aboriginal communities today, and the cries of Aboriginal women and children are largely flying under the radar, even in a time when domestic violence is finally making the front pages of newspapers. I don’t think anyone is denying this."

Followed by - "But to judge Billy Gordon for the break and enter charges is unfair given the history of disadvantage he inherited, and spent a lifetime overcoming.

I thought there was something expected from our MP candidates "being of good character" that seems to be missing from those making excuses for Billy Gordon's criminal record. That wouldn't be because he's Aboriginal, would it?

CH,

I reckon that even a bloke who is a repeat offender, with many break-and-enter and traffic offences, who knocks his mother and wife and girl-friend around, skips out on family payments, and allegedly uses his position to misuse funds, can't be all bad. We should give him a break.

Once he resigns from Parliament, as any decent person would, he should be helped to get some sort of part-time work collecting garbage in, say, Ravenshoe or Millaa Millaa, and washing out the truck every day. That's the least society can do for him. Fair go !

Joe