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The Forum > General Discussion > Transport Infrastructure and the NSW election

Transport Infrastructure and the NSW election

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Aidan,

"Is Mise, my point is that if tracks are shared there's no need to modify the bridge any time soon. But I agree with you about Wynyard."

but the only useful way into Platforms 1 and 2 at Wynyard is via the northern tunnels which are closed off by the roadways that were built on the rail right-of-wayway, this was used for many years by the Northside tramway system and were converted to roadways after the utterly stupid decision to close Sydney's tram system.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 27 March 2015 8:34:43 PM
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OTB, Aiden is out of touch with reality. All the motorways have
either failed or are failing. Aiden needs to go and read Matt's research.
Both failed in Brisbane and two so far have failed in Sydney.
The new ones are funded in much the same way as the ones that failed.
Strangely, just last Wednesday week I met a man who did a study of
the motorways for the state government and on ASICs responsibility
in the matter and they were setup for failure right from the beginning.
He said the current projects will go the same way because the public
servants did not learn the lessons. There was, he said when I asked,
no consideration of petrol prices and their effect on traffic.
Nor was there any in the current projects.

The VFT is too late here but we can reconstruct and upgrade the track
and have the Fast Enough System.

Anyone see the program earlier this week about Sao Paulo ?
It is MASSIVE !

20 million people ! They are just now starting to leave because of
water restrictions.
Anyway, that population surge here I think will stop when it hits the
fan. No one knows just when it will happen but migration will just stop.
There will not be the money or the ability to absorb immigrants and
if they try the economy will totally collapse.
You all should read Tainters "Collapse of Complex Societies".
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 27 March 2015 10:02:19 PM
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Bazz, not everyone who disagrees with you is out of touch with reality. It's true that oil price rises have reduced traffic, but there's still plenty of traffic out there. And it's also true that short term demand for tollways has been greatly overestimated in many cases. But though some motorways in Sydney have been commercial failures, they're not technical failures, and demand for them is sure to rise in the future as the population does likewise. Remember it's not just about cars; there will always be a need for trucks and buses – indeed I noticed Sydney's M2 has a couple of bus stations in the middle.

Do you really think a direct M4 extension to the airport and port would be a failure? If so, why?

It is not too late to have a VFT at all. But it makes sense to build it in stages, so initially it would use existing track (and eventually some of the trains may branch off onto existing track).

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Is Mise, is there any technical reason why new entrances to those platforms could not be constructed?

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onthebeach, I don't recall hearing Anna Bligh saying it, but I certainly heard Bob Carr. But I don't think the problem's really the number of people; it's the states making the (valid) point that the federal funding is inadequate.

Except for skilled tradies, most of the jobs are in the cities despite the unemployment. And unemployment is a solvable problem.

I understand the remote parts of Highway 1 in northern Australia are no longer regarded as more important than any other road. But I don't think it relates to NSW, so I suggest we discuss it, and the population issue, in the "Joe Hockey, the Intergenerational Report and population" thread:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6791&page=0
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 27 March 2015 11:03:52 PM
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There is a technical reason that VFTs cannot use existing track.
It was explained by someone on The Conversation on the same subject.
It had to do with the wheel cross section, I didn't fully understand
the reason at the time so cannot explain it myself.

The way I understand it, as explained by Matt on his website, and also
confirmed by the forensic accountant I met recently, the financial plan
was arranged so that the government picks up the bill when the motorways fail.

I am told the finance is arranged for a 30 year period, but is
expected to fail much sooner than that.
If the CSIRO's prediction of $8 a litre by 2020 comes good they will
fail a lot earlier.
BTW, I do not think the CSIRO is right, my guess is $4 a litre by then.
But then who am I to out guess the CSIRO.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 28 March 2015 7:15:10 AM
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Aidan, "But I don't think the problem's really the number of people; it's the states making the (valid) point that the federal funding is inadequate"

You disagree with the people who reside in those cities and the politicians who represent them.

There are many problems outside of funding, for instance social problems, but even so, who pays
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 28 March 2015 7:26:36 AM
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Bazz,

Wheel profile issues are a technical challenge, not an insurmountable obstacle. Although the VFTs of Japan don't share track with other trains (indeed the track isn't even the same gauge) those of Europe do.

Any competent government would avoid the sort of contract where they pick up the risks but the rewards flow to the private sector. But government incompetence abounds.

I think even $4/litre by 2020 is very unlikely. Synthetic fuel would become viable at a lower cost than that.

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onthebeach,

Factors related to the high population are what brought most people to the major cities in the first place. Politicians (and many others) disagree on a lot of things, but increasing population isn't just the cause of infrastructure inadequacy, but also an opportunity to improve the infrastructure for everyone else.

The funding mechanism I favour is the Federal government (or possibly even the RBA) making concessional loans to state governments.
Posted by Aidan, Saturday, 28 March 2015 9:51:08 AM
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