Way back in the 70s I was friends with a Yankee couple. Both psychologists, they had been recruited by JFK's peace corps to find out why none of the programs designed to help Pacific island people were working.

They had bought a passing yacht, & stayed on for a while, after 10 years in the islands.

Their conclusion, giving people things did not help. A government established plantation went to ruin very quickly, as no residents had anything invested in it's success. The government would provide anyway, so why work on a community project.

Their answer, proven many times, was to pick a couple of the more dominant residents, & help them establish a private plantation. It did not take more than a couple of years for the increasing wealth of those selected to become obvious, & others to want a bit of the action.

Within a few years they had Copra, cocoa & vanilla exports leaving islands where previously the only traffic was medical goods & rice handouts going in.

Unfortunately, as is the way with most yachting friendships, they went west, & I north east, & we lost contact. I don't know if much their work survived their departure. I did visit Kapingamarangi a few years later, & it was more prosperous than our New Guinea atolls thanks to their work. It was also better than the British Solomon outer islands, so looked promising.

Appealing to personal ambition does appear more successful than to community aspirations, & the success of a few does at least provide jobs for the less ambitious.

I think it is an approach we should be applying in our north. It could help a lot of our people, where current practices, like the yanks experience in the islands, is failing.

The problem with helping people is corruption, where the money enters the country politicians have there hand in the cookie jar.

If you give the money directly to the people, which people do you give it too.
The so called village leaders have there hand in the cookie jar so you can't give it to them.

Given to lazy people, you just waste the money.

Given to the right people it will help, but finding them is the problem.

I would suggest sending experts who have done things them self to show locals how they can also do it to improve there lifestyle.

I can speak about the village in Fiji which I and my partner have an association with. It is an interior mountain village , about 200 people, accessible by 4WD, due to the poor road conditions. What has aid/government provided for the village, the biggest things, the village primary school, well run, kids are keen could do with some more resources, teacher is good and she has a couple of teachers aids, local girls to help out. The medical "center" is okay, the nurse comes once a week, does a good job, but medical emergencies are a big problem, no doctor on call and Nandi is difficult to get to, could use a helicopter at times, if one was available.
The water supply to the village from a clean spring through a 2km piping project works really well. Housing is not a big issue, the housing is spartan by our standards, no TV no electricity, house consists of one room, not much furniture, lounge chair maybe, a small table, mats for sitting and sleeping. the "kitchen" is a lean-to on the side or cooking is done in the open. Some houses have an "entertainment area" a veranda on the front. The biggest structure is the church/meeting hall, everyone goes on Sunday.
What do the villages do all day, the men work 6 days a week in the gardens, growing crops for the village and for sale. The woman spend their days washing, cleaning looking after the pre- school kids. Don't get a lot of tourists trade, but the girls do make some things to sell later, down in the market or in one of the Fijian shops in town.
cont.

cont
The biggest thing that will make life a whole lot easier for the villages is a decent road. At the moment the bus up from Nandi terminates well short, because of the road and its a long long walk home. High school is in town, kids need to stay with relatives or board and that is a real problem for most. Funny, aid was cut off by Oz and NZ and who has stepped in and is providing road money the Chinese. get the cash crop to market is a problem, the village does not have a truck and for one to come up, if there is no heavy rain, it was $160 last time, a lot of money, but necessary. Aid is certainly not the be all or end all, but is most useful.

Paul405,

That is a prime example where the villagers can help themselves. There is a wealth of information available om practical road building for low environmental impact and sustainability. There are examples of roads hundreds of years old that were built with basic tools and using locally available materials. It is still being done.

They can build and maintain the road.

There is a saying that when the student is ready the teacher appears.

Wow I didn't realise the men folk of Fiji were so dumb. Must be the Indian influence.

In PNG it is the women folk who tend the gardens. The men raise a bit of livestock, go fishing, & some do a little commercial activity.

As for schools, the village has to build the school house, & housing for the teacher & their family, if any. Only then will a teacher be provided by the government.

The road network has exploded as more commercial production has developed in villages, changing many villages beyond recognition. In some areas they were even connecting electricity to the more sophisticated thatched huts.

I'm not sure the westernisation is necessarily a good thing for many villages. A few district officers I knew reckoned schools gave villagers where there was no regular transportation to large towns enough education to be discontented, but not enough to get or hold a job in the larger towns. It increased squatter populations around larger towns for no advantage.

In places like Rabaul roads stopped within 20 kilometres. PMVs, [trucks with seats on deck] brought a large workforce in from this area, but after that it was walk or boat.

Perhaps this is simply the islands now going through the difficulties the west suffered during the industrial revolution.

I always found it funny that we would work for 40 years to retire to go & do what islanders particularly, did all their lives. I couldn't understand how we could con them to take our lousy jobs, but so many did.

The surest way to foster learned helplessness, dependence and earn a rod for your back forever is to rush in building roads and other facilities in undeveloped countries.

The cost is horrendous where where the tools and technology of the First World are used and the locals do not have the means, money and the motivation to maintain the new facilities. The solutions of the First World are often too permanent, environmentally harmful and not sustainable.

There is a lot of basic truth in the parable to teach them how to fish rather than supply the fish. That assumes that the teaching is relevant to what they have available locally.

Similar reasoning can be applied to Australian Aborigines, where well-meaning but naive governments have spilled millions of taxpayers' money for decades achieving only limited successes, but ensuring at the same time that the Aborigines see all solutions as external to themselves and intrusive, 'Whitey' fixes that don't work. Of course the solutions don't work, the solutions must come from within the aboriginal community. That doesn't mean an open chequebook either.

At this stage it is pertinent to ask where all of that compensation, royalties, indigenous consultancy fees and so on from mining end up? From what I have seen, heaps of consumer goods, taxi fares and booze. - What if the recipients of those windfalls were to put it into the what they see as suitable, properly located housing and facilities?

Dear Hassie,

You're right if we are going to help Aboriginal
and Torres Straight Islander peoples to freely
determine their own political, economic, social
and cultural development we need to do that in
a practical sense. They should not settle on
being a victim or blaming others. Neither
attitude is healthy for self-determination.
They need our help in achieving success but handing
over control to them eventually increases chances
of success. Inappropriate solutions where we've
maintained total control have wasted millions.
They need to get involved.

A body to represent them is needed in government.
They should be able to make decisions about policies
and programs that directly affect their lives and
they need to take responsibility and support of the
decisions.

I don't see anything succeeding - if we keep dictating
to them. Their involvement is crucial to success.
They should be allowed to eventually manage their own
affairs. We can provide the necessary training programs
but it should eventually be up to them to get involved
and make things succeed.

cont'd ...

In the US and Canada some Indigenous tribes
have made the effort and have succeeded
in farming, casinos, tourism, handicrafts,
and they manage to support their people
from their incomes. Some have even achieved
high positions in local, state, and federal
politics.

So it can be done here with consultation and
the right training programs.

Fox,

If those are weasel words slyly suggesting a return to the autonomy, open chequebook, lack of scrutiny, waste and fraud that was the inheritance of the 'Progressive' Whitlam government, you are sentencing thousands more young indigenous mothers and children to more horrendous violence and molestation.

The dense black curtain would descend again to shield monstrous cruelty, waste and fraud from the prying eyes of the media and ensuring that public accountability is impossible.

As for education and training programs overcoming any of those abuses, yeah we now know what actually went on behind that black curtain and as a result there are hundreds of indigenous older youth and adults who are functionally illiterate in English and mathematics.

What is it with leftist 'Progressives' that they cannot learn from their own failed social experimentation and interfering and are destined to repeat the same mistakes?

otb,

I'm not interested in your opinion on any
issue.

Go talk to someone who cares what you think.

Hasbeen how long since you have had anything to do with PNG? The people of Fiji are not dumb, they are rather intelligent in many ways. I get on well with Fijians both indigenous and Indian. I will be returning there in October.
As I understand it, and have seen first hand. The Fijian road building and improvement program is Chinese funded, been undertaken by 'Higgins' a leading NZ road construction mod, using both their own expertise and local labour. What is wrong with the particular road I am talking about is, it needs widening in many place, it needs improvements to the hair pin bends (been undertaken now) surface needs consolidation and run-off to stand up better to the wet, in places the road edge is breaking away and making it to narrow and dangerous. the scale of work I have seen I do not believe could be undertaken simply by locals. Its not a 6 lane tar sealed highway, but a one-two lane gravel road.
With the on the job skills locals (people presently employed in road building) are learning from the contractor, later they will use those skills to maintain roads.

Foxy, this site is interesting and does a terrific job.

http://www.fijikids.org/

Also 'Kiva' is a great way in which people in third world countries can access small loans which otherwise would not be available to them. A practical way of helping many with a small outlay.

http://www.kiva.org/

p/s Beach has his spiritual adviser in the form of Jim Saleam, not that Beach is political in any way, as he is always telling us, he is some kind of center moderate. LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Saleam

Beach why don't you instigate an aid program in Tempe Sydney, that party HQ of yours could do with a lick of paint, and you guys would learning a new skill, painting!

Dear Paul,

Thank You for the links.

It is excellent that these organisations do exist
and they are very worthy of support. In this country
we support quite a few charities that do excellent
work - from Vinnies to the Salvos to Father Chris
Riley's - YOTS (Youth Off the Streets), to name just
a few.

A close friend of mine is involved with an organisation
called "The Daughters of Lithuania" in Los Angeles.
The Los Angeles Chapter of this organisation was founded
in 1973 with approximately 36 members. Today the
membership is huge and these dedicated women reach people
in need on a regular basis, providing humanitarian aid
and inspiring hope. They strive to make a difference,
especially in the lives of children.

The LA Chapter supports orphanages, families in need and
homes for the aged, and provided scholarships for needy
students.

You poor humourless dill Paul.

What a dreadful grey world you must live in.

Hassy, did you make a funny, did you? You don't come across as the humorous type to me. More the down on everyone who's not like yourself in someway type.
I like this one;
"schools gave villagers where there was no regular transportation to large towns enough education to be discontented" How Uncle Tom is that statement, a line from an old Tarzan movie. District Officer, a "Whitey' who's job was to keep "Darky" under control. "Look Paleface, the natives are restless!" Hasbeen do you think some day soon you will move into the twentieth century?

A terrible category 5 Cyclone Pam has hit the tiny Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu. Dozens are feared dead. Immediate aid from the developed nations in the region Australia and New Zealand is needed as soon as possible. Other countries are coming forward to offer help through the UN asap. This is the worse cyclone to hit the Pacific in years.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/cyclone-pam-dozens-feared-dead-in-vanuatu-20150314-143y5a.html

Yes Paul, & being Oz we will give them more help than we gave our own in Yeppoon.

It also highlights that some at the weather bureau are playing some stupid games.

This one was so obviously so much stronger than our Yeppoon blow, there & in the surrounding area, that we need to reform that disgusting body, before people actually start to believe our little thing was a big one.

Hasbeen, how about a big pat on the back for the Abbott Government for their mean fisted funding cuts to the Weather Bureau. I say every dollar spent on weather forecasting is a dollar well spent. Again more ideology and no thought from Abbott. Julie Bishop has made some very positive sounds so far as this cries unfolds.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-13/budget-weather/5449208

Have you still not noticed Paul, after Yeppoon, a lot of people now know, not just suspect, the bureau is playing a silly game. I think a reduction of about 50% in funding, & the dismissal of the entire overpaid management would be more in order, definitely not an increase in budget.

Paul1405,

As usual the Greens are just stirring.

What about the beaut new computer system? It is situation normal where large sums are expended on technology that government wants to see the promised (by the agency) savings, an efficiency dividend.

<Weather Bureau says funding cuts won't affect services
ABC Rural Edwina Farley

The Bureau of Meteorology faces a $10 million cut to its budget over the next four years, but says there will be no impact on services...
the government has committed to going ahead with the replacement of the Bureau's supercomputer, which will be outdated by mid-2016>
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-13/budget-weather/5449208

A lie detector would be useless new technology where the Greens are concerned, because whenever they open their mouths the half-truths and misrepresentations just come tumbling out.

Why hasn't NSW Greens Shoebridge acted to remove the falsehood on the Greens' site that the gun used by the Martin Place terrorist was registered when it was NOT? For what possible purposes do the Greens and Shoebridge ('Showboat') keep that lie going? It has been months.

Beach, off the deep end once more, as per usual. The Greens publish their policies for all to see. Unlike some who hide in cellars and broom closets. When are you going to come clean on your own political affiliation and stop that silly pretense that your are some sort of political neutral, when you are clearly not. Openness will gain you respect.

Paul1405,

Why hasn't NSW Greens Shoebridge acted to remove the falsehood on the Greens' site that the gun used by the Martin Place terrorist was registered when it was NOT?

For what possible purposes do the Greens and Shoebridge ('Showboat') keep that lie going? It has been months.

Beach, you are like a dog with a bone, you never give it up!
You are posting something total unrelated to the topic.

Have you contacted Mr Shoebridge in relation to your concern?
If so have you received a satisfactory response?

In case you have not, here is a link for you to use?

http://davidshoebridge.org.au/

Incidentally, you were ignorant of the matter, until Is Mise posted it, but it is your bone now.

Since we are off topic, have you got your nomination in for the up coming NSW State election? I did suggest the seat of Newtown.
p/s noms close today, The Greens will again be contesting every seat in the state, plus a full team in LC. How many seats are you and Jim contesting, I suspect none.

Beach other than getting on here, and putting up your worthless political opinion, have you ever tried to get out there and do something politically constructive? I actually admire people who not just nominate for office be it Green, Labor or Liberal etc but work behind the scenes to try and make a difference.

Paul1405,

That is all ducking and irrelevancy.

You are very forward in spruiking the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens. You say you rub shoulders with them, admiring Shoebridge ('Showboat') and the woman he apes (since lightweight Shoebridge has never had an original idea himself), the dreadful export to Canberra, Lee Rhiannon (Brown).

What do the Greens get out of promoting that lie about the gun being legal when very obviously it was not and the NSW police had already said so?

Beach old boy, there seems to be only one person in the state, and I'm not sure if you are actually in the state, who is "concerned" with this rather obscure matter. From all indications you are not likely to vote Green, being a member of an ultra right organisation and all, that is fully understandable, obviously we do not want your vote anyway. Considering there is a state election in less than 2 weeks and there are far more important matters to attend to at the moment for all within the party, I don't think I will bother with your "problem".
p/s I did give you a suggestion. ie, contact the MP in question yourself, have you done that?
p/p/s You never answer any question put to you, so don't expects others to answer yours!

I answer every reasonable question put to me and usually at length.

Shoebridge and the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens already know that the information on their site is false. What utter gall and hypocrisy in keeping it there.

Beach, and who is your arbitrator of all things reasonable? No doubt, yourself.

Please explain how my question, Have you contacted the MP in question yourself? If not, why not! Is that an unreasonable question? I think not.

I even provided a link for you to use. It cannot be anymore helpful than that.

Paul1405,

Quite simple really, it serves no purpose at all to contact a politician, Shoebridge, and an outfit like the scurrilous NSW 'Watermelon' Greens to tell them what they already know -that the information on their site is false.

What utter gall and hypocrisy in keeping it there.

You are the poster who is forever spruiking the 'honesty' of the Greens and lambasting the credibility of the other parties. You are squirming with discomfiture so use that link yourself to tell them they are letting you down with lies.

And you sir, are the poster forever attacking The Greens. Regardless of the topic, regardless of what others are posting you will always add a disparaging anti Green post in the vain hope that some of the mud you sling will stick. Not often but now and then I will post something positive about someone from another political party eg The government has acted quickly in getting Australian aid into Vanuatu following the devastating cyclone, and Julie Bishop has done everything possible regarding the two Australians on death row in Indonesia. You seem to be paranoid about The Greens. Why such fear? The Greens must be doing a good job to upset you so.
Unlike you sir, I make no secret of my political affiliation. call us Watermelons if you will, it makes no difference to me.

Lying by the Greens is a habit, they can't help themselves.
A lie is a lie and to lie about the NSW Commissioner of Police and the NSW Firearms Registry personel is a big fat lie.

The manly thing to do would be to apologize. DHYB.

Is Mise, I and The Greens are far more concerned by the institutionalise lying from CORRUPT Labor and Liberal polititions in this state. Something that seems to be of little concern to you or your sidekick Beach, more concerned with the trivial are you not. We are more concerned about the disgusting privatisation policy of this reprehensible Liberal Government and how it will impact on the good folk of New South Wales.
We are more concerned that a one issue, two bob party, The Shooters, could hold the balance of power in the Legislative Council after the election, and hence do grubby deals with a CORRUPT Tory government to get their shoot everything on sight policy in place, at the determent of the vast majority.
The concerns of ours make your trivial nonsense pale into insignificance when one considers the greater issues facing this state. But keep trying, nobody is listing, especially me.

Paul,

Lying about the Police Commissioner of NSW and about the Firearms Registry is not trivial and someone must be listening even if it is only you.
Or do you often reply to things that you haven't heard?