I didn't take long! The CFMEU is up to its old tricks in Victoria.

"CFMEU blockade shuts down Aldi building site"
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/cfmeu-blockade-shuts-down-aldi-building-site/story-fni0fit3-1227146603546

First up, how many pensioners, self-supporting retired and other low income earners will be thanking the CFMEU bosses for delaying their Aldi outlet and possibly threatening the future of other Aldi developments?

It is car manufacturing all over again.

Money to be made from importing Chinese-made bumper stickers declaring, "I DIDN'T vote Labor".

You lot are very jumpy arn't we. There will always be disputes no matter who wins the race, not that there was much oposition.
Abbott could have done wisely not sticking his nose into Victoria, it done Napthine imesurable damage.
His referendum on a tunnel for melbourne when it was a Victorian election. Maybe Abbott thought Melbourne was Victoria.
Victoria's industrial disputes have nothing to do with other states.
It goes to show Victorian's are comfortable with the CMFEU To keep their workers free from international interferance.

Wouldn't worry me i refuse to use Aldi anyway
Stuff is crap service is really bad and they are German owned
Can't see much Point in supporting them

otb,

I am shocked, appalled, and extremely surprised to
say the least - that
you Sir, of all people, who regularly proclaims himself to
be pro - "Australian," on this forum -
would stick up for a company that
employs foreign workers ahead of Australians - particularly
in the hard hit Geelong area. Shame on you and well done
CFMEU! More unions should be taking this sort of action
on behalf of Australian workers. Well done!

Although I suspect your motivation in starting this thread
is more political than anything else.

Nice try!

Beach, exposing your uneven hand once more, resorting to posting a link to Murdoch's gutter press. Please do not feign concern for pensioners and low income earners, people a rabid right winger such as yourself would have little regard for. The CFMEU is a tough union in a tough industry, yes they are not always pretty, and yes they have there warts as well, no denying that. However building workers can be thankful for the job the union has done for them over the years on pay and conditions in what has always been a hard working environment, the building industry, can't deny that.

There you have it, Marxist and authoritarian leftist posters who would cut off their noses - make that the noses of ordinary workers - to spite themselves. No work means no income for the workers and sub-contractors and with Xmas on the horizon. Fat lot they care.

Bloody minded union bosses flexing their muscles immediately the union controlled Labor government assumes power.

Now what was it Rudd and others said about the faceless men (and women!) and the factions that control Labor?

What too about union corruption?

otb,

Name calling, and labelling people.
Same old tactics. Why just stop at Marxists -
what about the goose-stepping fascists,
the Emily-Listers, the Fabians, the
Progressives, and lets not forget the
Neanderthals and the Regressives, as well.
Then there's the nutters and crackpots,
and ones with really extreme narrow view-
points. Ye gads you could easily fill up
your 350 word limit just ranting off at all
of them. Wait, you usually do!

Oh, What a Feeling! Now what's that about
Toyota?

This of course does not change the fact that
it is surprising that you would stick up for a
company that emplys foreign workers ahead of
Australians - particularly in the hard-hit Geelong
area. More unions should be taking this action.

It is difficult to see the bigger picture when
you've got such a small screen.

LOL Foxy, it is always so obvious form your sledging when your Googling cannot provide you with some wordy irrelevancy to support your opinion.

I take it that you and yours (and those union heavies too!) will be well off for Xmas, while those workers and sub-contractors are blockaded from working by the CFMEU.

otb,

I am surprised that you continue to stick up for a
company that employs foreign workers ahead of
Australians particularly in the hard hit Geelong area.
CFMEU took the right action to try and ensure jobs for
Australians - and more unions should be taking this
action. If you were genuinely concerned about jobs for
Australians you would support the union action instead
of decrying it. Shame on you.

As for sledging?
Read- your own posts on this forum.
That's all you do.

LOL Foxy, as said earlier, it is always obvious from your sledging when you are on the back foot and your Googling cannot provide you with some wordy irrelevancy to support your opinion.

As you very well know, I am not 'sticking up' for any company. I am criticising the CFMEU for its bloody-mindedness and blockade.

This is the CFMEU in action,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-31/cfmeu-fined-1-25-million-over-grocon-protests-union-melbourne/5355976

otb,

Your claim that -

All you're doing is criticising CFMEU for its
"bloody-mindedness" et cetera...

As well as your disclaimer to "sledging?"
appears to have reached a plateau of mind-numbing
predictability. Just to point out a few
things from your own posts -

Take the delicately diarrhoid title of your discussion -

"Was it CFMEU elected in Victoria?"

Then you go on telling me in two posts -

"...your Googling cannot provide you with some wordy
irrelevancy to support your opinion..."

And - the usual reference to -

"Marxist and authoritarian leftist posters who would
cut off their noses - make that the noses of ordinary
workers - in spite of themselves..."

And there's more -

"I take it that you and yours (and those unions heavies
too) will be well off for xmas.."

If this is your way of merely criticising CFMEU
then the rest of what you've posted must be
your desperately lame attempt at intimidating wit.

Keep trying.

So far not much success.

I'll wait and see what else you can come up with.

Make it something new just for variety's sake.

LOL Foxy, you really are on the back foot today attacking the messenger. The CFMEU is that important to you, huh?

The union is a damned disgrace putting men and sub-contractors out of work immediately prior to Xmas.

You also disagree with the new Labor Victorian Premier who is saying what I have said all along,

<CFMEU Tests New Victoria Premier

There’s no reason why work can’t resume at an Aldi construction site which has been blockaded by a building union, Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews says.
..
In his first week as a new Labor premier, Mr Andrews said he saw no good reason why work couldn’t resume at the site.
“I see no reason, given there’s no occupational health and safety issue here, there’s no question of people not being paid appropriate wages, I see no reason why work shouldn’t be back happening at that site as soon as possible,” he told reporters.
..
Former treasurer Michael O’Brien said the CFMEU was seeing how far it could go now Labor was in power.
“The CFMEU has known with a Labor government in office the dogs are off the leash, and they’re flexing their muscle in week one,” he told reporters.
Mr O’Brien said workers were losing money because the CFMEU was defying the law.
..

Former treasurer Michael O’Brien said the CFMEU was seeing how far it could go now Labor was in power.
“The CFMEU has known with a Labor government in office the dogs are off the leash, and they’re flexing their muscle in week one,” he told reporters.
Mr O’Brien said workers were losing money because the CFMEU was defying the law.>
http://sourceable.net/cfmeu-tests-new-victoria-premier/

otb,

Nope. Nothing new to read.

Yawn.

Beach, not only did this Michael O’Brien contribute to his parties defeat at the recent state election, it would seem besides the people of Victoria rejecting O'Brian, when he threw his hat in the ring for the job of Opposition Leader, his party rejected him as well. Obviously a person we can't have a great deal of confidence in, but you can.

Paul1405,

You are imagining things. Both sides of the Victorian parliament are critical of the bullying tactics of the CFMEU thugs. The CFMEU is acting illegally and should be shunted into court quick smart.

What campaign funds have the Greens received from this notorious, rogue union?

Beach, if both sides of politics are critical of the CFMEU, what was the point of your headline?

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Foxy, did you actually read the article? The only foreign workers are the experts supervising the placing of the concrete. How many workers in the hard hit Geelong area do you think can be relied upon to ensure the same standard of results?

Dear Aidan,

The following link may help to clarify some of
the problems associated with international
organisations like ALDI being allowed to spread
their tentacles in this country and help us to
understand why we should be concerned:

http://www.dicksmithfoods.com.au/media/press-releases/aldis-lower-prices-you-lose-your-freedom

There is plenty of innovation in concreting. It cannot be hit or miss for obvious reasons. Watching some sacrificial plastic formwork being laid this am. It is a new design. Problems in all of the stages from the truck (cinched too tight) on.

Wishing to hell that the idiots in charge of immigration would take some thousands of the skilled young tradies available in Northern Europe, Ireland and Scotland, instead of adding to the Centrelink queues with hordes from *bleep*istan, Africa and so on. Immigration policy has been that way for years. A 'lucky country' no more in the very near future.

Anyhow, back to the CFMEU, where it is all about power for union bosses whose very last concern is a merry Xmas for the workers forced to pay them subs.

Aidan,

The point is obvious. While the Victorian premier might scold the CFMEU, it is indisputable that the factions will control him too so there is little he can do, or be thrown to the wolves himself. You might recall the exasperation of Labor leaders, sometimes expressed publicly, that they and the Caucus must answer to the factions, who hire and fire them at will.

So, who really was elected in Victoria? The CFMEU is making a point.

Beach,

Indesputable? I dispute it, therefore you're wrong.

There are factions in the ALP, but no faction, let alone any union, controls it. And if they're a problem, Dan may be able to stare them down like his SA counterpart did.

If anything, having workers on a strike without widespread public support weakens the faction associated with their union.

And Australia is accepting a lot of tradies from northern Europe.
_______________________________________________________________________

Foxy,
That link's just protectionist waffle Dick uses to fool gullible customers into buying his mediocre products! And the idea that Coles and Woolwoths are only engaging in monopsonistic behaviour because of Aldi is quite ridiculous — though not as ridiculous as claiming competition from Aldi will force them to reduce one of their biggest competitive advantages (the range of products stocked).

If farmers can't make money growing beetroot, they should switch to a more lucrative crop.

Dear Aidan,

Thank You for your opinion.

I found Dick Smith's press release did raise
some valid points.

As for CFMEU's protest against ALDI?
Obviously there is more to it than we know
and what's being raised in the Murdoch Press.

This particular discussion - right from the
opening posts and title reminds me of the Liberal
adds - that attempted to link Labor to Unions prior
to the recent Victorian election. They were a total
turn-off for most voters and a huge mistake on
behalf of the Victorian Liberal Party. I liked
Denis Napthine - and have voted Liberal in past
State elections. But these adds did not do any credit
to Mr Napthine or his Party. So yesterday - in their
attempting to link Labor to Unions. It smacked of
desperation. As does the mind-numbing predictability
of otb's effort in this discussion.

See you on a more challenging topic.

Cheers.

Aiden,

That you mind disagree with an indisputable fact, in this case the well-proved (and even boasted about by senior union figures) influence of factions on Labor caucuses, does not affect anything. You are wrong that is all.

Particular factions do rule the roost for varying and sometimes lengthy periods. History says so and so do Labor leaders and numbers men. Heard of (say) 'Richo', who has had a lot to say about that and so has Rudd to take a couple of examples.

There is no evidence that unions like the CFMEU are concerned about public support. Sadly they usually rely on upsetting the public, eg through strikes, to force politicians and employers to concede to their demands.

Your last point is hopeful but that is about it.

'mind' should be 'might' in my first sentence above.

Beach,

That the factions have influence is (I think) an indisputable fact.
That the factions have so much power that they will control the premier is mere conjecture.
I did not claim unions like the CFMEU are concerned about public support
What I'm saying is BEING ASSOCIATED WITH UNPOPULAR UNIONS WEAKENS FACTIONS.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Foxy,

It is far from obvious that there's any more to it than the Murdoch Press reports.

Dear Aidan,

It's quite obvious to me - but then I
prefer to use more than the sources
of News Corp - where the news is limited.

Cheers.

So do I, Foxy, but I haven't heard anything contradictory from other sources. And Victoria's unions do have a reputation for unreasonable responses (by Australian standards — I'm not suggesting they're anywhere near as bad as their British counterparts).

Dear Aidan,

That's what the Liberals would like you to believe.
Which they hope will influence the swinging voters,
especially in the marginal seats. That's the whole
point. However, where would workers in this country
be without unions. Professionals in the building-industry
who work with unions every day, have learned that by
treating unions respectfully and negotiating details of
concern - projects run very smoothly. My husband, who's
an architect has worked with unions on contruction
projects many times both in this country and overseas
and has found minimal problems that negotiations resolved
within a day or two. Only sheer stubborn resistance to
negotiate and discuss, results in problems.

In any case - I've got nothing further to add to this
discussion.
I'll see you on the next one.

Foxy I'm surprised at your loose use of language. You say, "Professionals in the building-industry who work with unions every day, have learned that by treating unions respectfully and negotiating details of concern - projects run very smoothly."

I would have expected you to be more precise, with something like, Professionals in the building-industry who work with unions every day, have learned that by treating unions respectfully and doing lots of under the table back handers to the union bosses - projects run very smoothly.

This would have been a much more precise use of words. After all we have none other than the dreadful read head's activities to prove this is fact, where Victorian unions are concerned.

Dear Hassie,

I was speaking on behalf of my husband's personal
experiences as an architect. He's never had to resort
to the tactics you mention - which I suspect may be
practised by a few but on the whole again tend to
form part of the rampant political mythology against
unions in this country.

Aidan, "That the factions have so much power that they will control the premier is mere conjecture"

You need to understand how Labor works. The Premier is subject to the decisions of Caucus, and Caucus is governed by factions. That is why Rudd and others oppose the factions, saying they are a cancer affecting democracy. The power of the factions is evident from the inability of leaders like Rudd to do anything about them.

Foxy, "I was speaking on behalf of my husband's personal experiences as an architect"

If your spouse could speak for himself he might care to outline exactly how an architect comes to be negotiating with the CFMEU or other unions on a construction site. Especially since he is now vouching for them.

otb,

My husband apart from being a qualified architect,
Designer, and Town Planner, also undertook the
extended role of Project and Construction Manager
on multi-million dollar projects both in Australia and
overseas. It is obvious to him that you otb - don't
have a clue about the construction industry apart from
what the Liberal Propaganda preaches.

Enough said.

Somehow I very much doubt that, Foxy.

Your defence of the CFMEU is remarkable to say the least. I reckon you are putting words in your spouse's mouth because your Googling cannot find anything positive about the subject union and its gutless bosses who would put men out of work just to flex their muscles.

I am sure there are honest people in the building & construction industries Foxy, but they are pretty thin on the ground.

There would be no slush funds for crooked lawyers to set up, if there was no under the table money pouring into union management coffers.

Far too many union officials become rich beyond any possibility of their salary income, for anyone to really believe the system is not rotten to the core.

Just what the hell our law system is doing, when unionists are allowed secondary boycott type picketing of sites I can't imagine. Preventing legitimate access to sights should be punished by some years in prison, followed by exclusion from the industry. Letting them get away with this stuff is pure anarchy.

We have seen from the various posts on this
forum that people in different walks of life
will interpret the same phenomenon - whether it
is a Prime Minister's policies, a religious
doctrine, or the behaviour ot big business and
union action in very different ways. As I've
stated in the past - people tend to see the world
from a viewpoint of subjectivity - an interpretation
based on personal values, and above all - their
experiences.

I shall repeat what I've cited previously:

I'm a member of a union, but I've never been put in
a position where I've had to go out on strike. And
although I'm sometimes frustrated when the union
does its job badly, I support without reservation
the right of all working people to join together so as
to preserve and protect their livelihoods.

Of course, unions need to be more sensitive to the
realities of modern economic conditions. Sectarian attitudes
and greed serve the cause of labour badly. But the fact
is that Australia's strike record has been improving in
recent years and according to current stats has now fallen
to the approx. figure of two hours per worker per year
that's lost due to industrial activity.

Still, we are in critical times and Australia requires
a re-assessment of the relationship between labour and capital,
a re-assessment which takes into account the politics of
industrial democracy, profit and job sharing, and long-term
planning which allows for the proper protection and
preservation of worker's jobs.

What we don't need is the
"kick-the-worker-today-and-take-the-money-tomorrow,"
attitudes. Business should not have the
right to get whatever it wants at the expense of workers.

The only way in which the country can work properly is for
management and labour to co-operate with one another, not
condemn one another. But the sad truth - as can be seen from
this discussion is that condemnation is the only language
that some people appear to understand. Obviously the
inevitable expansion of capital with its attendant social
inequality and natural destruction brooks no interference and
allows for no moral judgements.

I'm done here

cont'd ...

I forgot to add that it's the incompetence of management
dealing with unions that is responsible for union actions.
Those that take the time to sit down, discuss, and negotiate
grievances - don't have problems. But obviously some people
just don't want to understand that. Condemnation is the
easier option.

Exactly right the Napthine; govt in Victoria held the paramedics up for two years over their new contracts. As soon as Andrews took over he gave it to a independent umpire for resolution.

Foxy, the most incompetent thing industrial management have ever done was pay process workers on assembly lines in places like car factories over a hundred thousand dollars a year.

Unions & management who have given in to union demands because of the gun held to their head have cost us dear.

We have basically lost our shipping industry, steel industry, abattoirs, the whitegoods industries, & the car industry among others.

We are about to loose the last of our ship building, petrol refining, & any further growth in the mining industries.

Any honest student of history can see we are following exactly the same path that led to the loss of so much industry that the UK had invented & where they led the world. Their unions destroyed their blue collar industries, replacing them with the welfare that is sending them broke, with us racing to catch up on the same path.

Still it will all be fixed after the Asian takeover of the basket case we are becoming. I hope you like rice.

It is easy to criticise 'management'. I wish that some here could follow a manager or the small business owner for a day. It is a highly competitive world out there.

I wonder how many comprehend the immediate and flow-on effects of a construction stoppage?

The gutless, bullying, bloodyminded CFMEU bosses know but they don't care.