Parrot,

I am not claiming that I am better at economics than Piglets, rather that he has allowed his political agenda to override his academic agenda. Having actually read his thesis, it is essentially determining the effect of dole bludgers on the economy and what to do about them.

Similarly Prof Andrew Leigh produced his thesis on the need to introduce a GP co payment yet having taken up politics eschewed his objective analysis.

A,

The coalition did not support the "cash splash" but rather advised against it. What they did was not block the measures that Labor took which compares favorably to Labor's obstruction to the coalitions measures to restore the budget.

Secondly don't put words in my mouth. Welfare is not a waste, but in the case of a huge budget deficit is expenditure that is far from sustainable.

(even Einstein was subject to hubris trying to introduce a gravitation constant to justify his ideological opposition to the expansion of the universe, which he later described as his greatest mistake.)

In short Piglets declaration as to the efficacy of Labor's stimulus was not based on economics rather on ideology.

Shadow,

The coalition may not have supported the "cash splash" at the time, but once it was successful they started claiming they'd supported it.

The Liberals did not have the numbers in the Senate to block Labor's budgetary measures. And as many of the budgetary measures the Liberals are now proposing are broken election promises and would be bad for Australia if they were implemented, Labor are right to block them.

Considering how low Australia's welfare spending is by international standards, your claim that it's far from sustainable is far from credible.

Australia's deficit is mainly (probably entirely) cyclical. As the economy improves and company profits rise, tax revenue will go up. Meanwhile as businesses employ more people for longer hours, welfare spending will fall and income tax revenue will rise. So if we try to fix the nation the budget is likely to take care of itself*. Whereas if we try cutting to fix the budget, we just end up damaging the nation (as the USA and UK have done).

Regardless of Stiglitz (or Piglets or Twiglets) your declaration as to the efficacy of Labor's stimulus was not based on economics; rather on ideology.

*Obviously if we run into a problem we must deal with it, and dealing with it may involve cutting government spending. But government spending is not itself a problem, and nor is the deficit.

A,

Rubbish, the coalition never supported the cash splash, and subsequent analysis showed that it was almost completely ineffective.

The welfare budget which includes hospitals schooling medicare plus the school kid bonuses, disability etc absorb the bulk of tax revenue and are growing at a rate far outstripping revenue growth. In a decade or so there will be no money for anything else. So yes the socialist utopia where the state provides everything for free will have to end.

As for ideology, why if when the greatest mining boom in history started in late 2009, growth grew to 3% and unemployment dropped, did labor continue spending the majority of the stimulus?

Last year the International Monetary Fund produced a report stating that

Of the 17 top surveyed IMF countries, Australia has the fastest growth in spending of anyone in the world and the third highest growth in debt of anyone in the top 17.

.....Labor had to act quickly to head off a rapidly developing financial crisis, triggered by the actions of Liberal Party mates in the US and Europe.

Paul, sorry to be dropping in and out, but I doubt many people out there were opposed to labors idears for stimulating the economy and avoiding a recession, it's just the way they went aout it that was the problem, failure after failure, billions upon billions pissed away and so little achieved.

We now have a situation where voters are beside themselves, because on the one hand they hate the cut backs Abbott is doing, or trying to do, yet on the other hand they realize that labors ways were a disaster. In fact, big Clives votes came in protest of the big two parties.

As I have said many times, you can engage the best designers and draftsmen to draft your house plans, but if you use a dodgy builder it can be a disaster, which is pretty much what labor did, as their plans were not the problem, it was their incompetence in administering them that was their undoing.

Of cause the illegals was just a result of sheer arrogance from Rudd and has stopped many of us of their entitlements, especially our elderly and youth.

Stop worrying folks.

Aidan is going to sprinkle some pixie dust around the place, & everything will be fixed.

They get it from the fairies down the bottom of the garden.

"Stop worrying folks.

Aidan is going to sprinkle some pixie dust around the place, & everything will be fixed.

They get it from the fairies down the bottom of the garden."

What was that you were saying about "sniping", Hasbeen?

Oh yeah, this....

"You do sometimes appear to have the intellect for a serious discussion. Why you content yourself with nasty sniping I can only imagine. Something must have been very traumatic for you, to have reduced you to such a disposition."

Never mind, we're all hypocrites sometimes.