Judging from what's been happening in the media
recently - from Gough Whitlam's Memorial Service
where Mr Abbott was booed, to the general commentary
both on television and in the papers,
and judging from the recent polls, our Prime Minister's
popularity has taken a dive. Whereas Malcolm Turnbull's and
Julie Bishop's popularity is on the rise.

I thought it may be interesting to see what people on
this forum think about the chances of Mr Abbott getting
replaced as leader of the Liberal Party prior to the
next election. And if that does not happen, what are
his chances of getting re-elected?

This discussion is not meant as an attack on Mr Abbott.
That would be an utterly shallow approach.

You thoughts please.

The changes to the way political parties are registered are going to have an effect upon the makeup of the next senate but I don't see much changing in the reps and I don't think Bill Shorten can win an election because he's just a beta male orbiting a core of Feminists and washed up old Maoists.
Julie Bishop is in the news a lot at the moment but so is Tanya Plibersek, she seems a better bet for a move on Shorten in late 2015 than a Bishop or Turnbull led spill in the coalition.

Dear Jay,

Thanks for that.

People I speak to seem to be concerned about the current
state of politics at the moment. They feel that there are
so many contraditions between what this government claims
to stand for and what it does. As one journalist pointed
out in a recent article -

" Our federal government seems to be encouraging people
to turn against their neighbours with increasingly
hysterical rhetoric. But Tony Abbott buddying up to the
big boys as some kind of anti-terrorist hall monitor is
a distraction. It's a distraction from people dying in
detention centres, from a budget that punishes the
poorest, from the contraditions between what this
government claims to stand for and what it does."

"We have a government that doesn't hesitate to spend $500
million a year to send Super Hornets to drop bombs on
Iraq, but awards the contract to supply boots for our
troops to an Indonesian company, ahead of the
Australian firm that has kitted them out since World War II,
to save a few dollars."

"Noisily repatriating bodies from the wreck of Malaysia
Airlines Flight 17 and chest-thumping in the direction of
Russian President Vladimir Putin might win approval at
home, but won't stop the world from noticing Australia's
refusal to help fight ebola or how we push boatloads of
refugees back into poorer countries' water."

The author asks, "Why have we become so small and mean?"

Even if Abbott and the LNP make a complete hash of things, Shorten and Co are unelectable while they persist with Labors current policy on the illegal boat people.

Failure to recognize that the LNP policy has worked and that Labor should follow suit simply garantees they will remain in opposition.

Also do not forget the massive debt incurred by Labor, last time around.

The LNP are laughing

It think it's too difficult to call.

This is a government that won purely by virtue of not being Labor. So they're not going to want to appear to be like Labor by chopping and changing leaders.

Ironically, however, if they do change leaders, then I think they'll win the next election - largely based on the fact that the public just aren't ready to give Labor another go yet. If the Coalition don't change leaders, though, then I think we could be looking at another hung parliament - judging by the consistently close polling in recent months.

Gaffs aside, Abbott is just too out-of-touch and conservative for the general public. One wouldn't think so, reading the comments on OLO, but he is. OLO is filled with retirees and captains of industry that can afford to take the time out whenever they want to post during the day - those more inclined to vote conservative - so it's not very representative, despite some making out as if it were.

Tony is a bigger man for showing respect for a past National leader than the dis-respecting booing Labor Party stalwarts that attended Gough's funeral.

The Government policies are the principal problem. Our Current Account will deteriorate substantially as we attempt to source all our trucks, trains, cars, refrigerators, washing machines and liquid refined fuels overseas.

One of the right wing think tanks (CIS) only yesterday advocated resistance to those who seek to restore Australian industry. The Modest Member became well known years ago for advocating that it would be cheaper to pay unemployment benefits than produce clothing and footwear in Australia. In other words, employ people on slave labour wages and conditions so those in jobs that do not face foreign competition can live even higher on the hog. The Centre for Independent Studies (CIS) and Malcomb Turnbull recently paid tribute to the Modest Member!

The Current (foreign) Account deficit is our biggest problem.
With a CA deficit the private financial wealth situation will deteriorate unless the Sovereign (currency issuing) Government deficit is larger than the CA deficit.

But Australia could follow what Whitlam wanted to do. Extract as high a profit as feasible from companies depleting Australia's natural resources. We could take a leaf out of Norway's book.

I can't see them replacing Abbott any time soon, as to do so would seem like there is instability in the party.
They would not want to appear as unstable as the Liberal Party were before the last election.

I would love to see Malcolm Turnbull take the reins, but I doubt that will ever happen as he doesn't have the support.
Julie Bishop will never get the top job because she is female.

So we are stuck with Tones...

Yes Foxy, Bishop is doing well, & would probably take twits like Shorten apart, but she is not going to replace Abbott.

He is doing an amazingly good job, considering the forces in the senate are prepared to cause as much mayhem & damage to Oz as possible to try to regain power. He gets a bit soft & soppy occasionally, but will probably toughen up with more experience.

Nothing on earth could ever get Turnbull elected PM, while he is a member of the LNP. Most LNP voters would prefer to see him kicked out, & would never elect him. He appears to be a mix of Whitlam, Fraser & Rudd, any of which should debar him from ever holding any serious office. Most LNP voters I know would elect almost anyone than him, even Shorten.

He would be an improvement in leadership for Labor however. Why don't you get him to swap parties. I'll carry his bags across the chamber, if that would help.

So don't get your hopes up that the Libs will self destruct. You are going to have to find someone with some ability to replace most of Labor's top people to become credible, & earn reelection, not inherit it.

In order to replace Abbott, the LNP would have to replace Credlin...who appears to have been anointed by the powers that be and the IPA with the job of running the show and pulling Abbott's (and Cabinet's) strings.

A link that may be of interest:

1) http://www.smh.com.au/comment/no-way-tony-abbott-can-now-budget-for-a-second-term-20140521-zrjie.html

My personal feelings are that Malcolm Turnbull should be elected
as the leader of the Liberal Party and Chris Bowen as the leader
for the Labor Party. It would be a close run at the next election
but a well matched one. Peta Credlin's time I feel is limited,
as is her sphere of influence.

Foxy, can you please provide a couple of examples, in your own words of what you mean by "the contradictions between what this government claims to stand for and what it does." I've always admired your writing style but lately a lot of your comment has been quotes from articles/editorials that express a view you agree with.

To be clear I prefer the Coalition over Labor everyday of the week however I am also very disappointed in a lot of the policies that were floated in the budget and disappointed in Hockey's performance. But Labor and Shorten are not offering anything new or admitting the mistakes of the past 6 years.

I'm very surprised to read your support for Chris Bowen, a man I have no respect for whatsoever. In saying that I wouldn't want to see the back-stabbing Tanya Plibersek get the opportunity either. Perhaps Labor's best change is to recruit Malcolm Turnbull who appears to be a sheep in wolves clothing.

Getting to your question, I don't see the Coalition dumping a sitting PM after the backlash of Labor's two ill-fated coups.

Foxy,
Yeah Chris Bowen seems like a competent administrator but he's not had the public exposure of Bill Shorten or Tanya Plibersek, Shorten was excellent in the Beaconsfield mining disaster and that's what people will remember, not so much his role in ousting Gillard which I think most people have forgiven.
Who else is there on the ALP side whom people would even recognise? Penny Wong? Doug Cameron? Kim Carr?...yech.
The trouble is that the ALP doesn't have any charismatic people to compete with Turnbull or Hockey nor the Machiavellian brains trust of the IPA, the people further down the line in the shadow cabinet are either objectionable individuals on their own merit or faceless men and women.

How did we become so small and mean? It could have something to do wit the fact that in ten years we've had two million non-assimilable migrants arrive, the cost of living and housing has shot up while wages are going down in relative terms and we've seen the successive governments both state and federal racing to sell the country off to the Chinese.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/lowend-buyers-shut-out-of-fishermans-bend-20141101-11fh5p.html

the crowd at Gough seemed to cheer the losers and boo the winners. Howard paid off Labours massive debt, was elected four times and stopped the boats. If I was Abbott and that mob of cattle cheered for me , I would of been most concerned. While the ' regressives' hate Abbott so much I would say he is doing a good job. Of course tens of thousands of people sucking the public purse hate him. Those wanting ' free' education, free health free public transport, free love are dumb enough to think no one is actually paying. Ask them if they will teach for free, work as doctors or nurses for free and they will look at you stupidly.

The booing reflects the manners of the left.
It also reflects our education systems political leaning.
To the younger range today manners are just right wing suppression.

I was disappointed that the opposition leader did not castigate
the booers for their poor manners publically there and then.

So when a liberal leader dies will the opposition be game to turn up ?
It was another reason not to vote labour.

The demanding left are in for one hell of a shock when the government
finally realises what they face from 2017 onwards.
The government cut backs will look like government has withdrawn from
government of the country altogether.
Note the unreality of the gravel voice minister on 7-30 the other night.
When asked about the government intention if oil supplies interrupted.
"the government has the necessary powers to control our fuel supplies
in an emergency". Bloody hell, he doesn't even realise it will be a case of "What oil ?".

Dear Conservative Hippie,

The government talks about being inclusive and
'Team Australia,' yet at the same time as I
stated earlier - they seem to be encouraging
people to turn against their neighbours with
increasing hysterical rhetoric. Muslim people
are being abused in the street by sickening
unprovoked attacks.

Melissa Cunningham, who works
for The Courier in Ballarat, reported how a woman
crossing the street was yelled at be a ute driver
spewing profanities and racist slurs and demanding
she "go home." The woman was mystified until she
realised she'd been mistaken for a Muslim because she'd
wrapped a scarf over her head during a sudden downpour.

Dear Jay,

Both political parties suffer from the lack of
"charismatic" people qualified to lead. And as for
not replacing Tony Abbott - we'll we will have to wait
and see whether the Liberal Party will be prepared to
go to the next election and take their chances on a
very unpopular leader. Especially if his popularity
continues to take a dive and Malcolm Turnbull's continues
to rise. Labor definitely has a serious problem with
Bill Shorten as Leader.

As for the asylum seeker question. Of course we can all
understand the popularity of the "Stop the boats"
catchcry.

I am currently reading the wonderful book written Dr
Munjed Al Muderis, "Walking Free." It's the extrordinary
true story of a young man who fled war-torn Iraq, who came
to Australia as a refugee by boat, spent over ten months in a
detention centre (Curtin in WA), there he was known only
by a number, locked in solitary confinement and repeatedly
told to go back to Iraq. Now fourteen years later, he is
one of the world's leading osseointegration surgeons,
transforming the lives of amputees with a pioneering
technique that allows them to walk again.

He stresses that politicians should take a much more
compassionate approach to asylum seekers rather than
attempt to portray them as evil enemies of the state.

Mostly, they are not. He states that there were 13
qualified doctors in detention at Curtin while he was
there.

cont'd ...

I must admit to being rather surprised at the reception the PM received from some of the crowd outside Sydney Town Hall for the memorial service for Mr Gough WHITLAM. After all, it was a memorial service, and as such should've been free of any political expression no matter how passionate the demonstrators may've been about their causes.

I must admit I get very annoyed when the same ol' group wish to be heard above everyone else. This particular view appeared to have been shared by none other than Mr Bob HAWKE, who (overtly) personally welcomed the PM to the Service. That gesture was 'all class' in my opinion.

cont'd ...

Many of these were specialists. Plenty of others
were engineer, trained craftspeople and skilled
tradespeople.

Long periods of incarceration are simply inhuman.
Dr Muderis says that certainly refugees should
be detained at least until they have
passed all the necessary medical checks to ensure
they're not carrying communicable diseases. But he
makes a very valid point that even during that
detention, they should be known by a name rather
than a number and should be afforded the standard levels
of respect we apply to other human beings in our day-to-
day lives.

He has some excellent suggestions (taken from what he
experienced). He says that after that, they should be
educated and rehabilitated, including attending
classes about Australian history, culture and lifestyle
and how to assimilate into their new country's society.

Certainly according to him they should be housed in
detention centres at night, but during the day, they
could be electronically tagged and allowed to work in
jobs others don't want, like fruit picking or
agriculture-related work in regional centres, where they
could mix with the locals and learn to speak English.

Children should be allowed to attend the local schools to
gain an education, establish friendships and learn
Australian values while they're young and their brains
are like sponges.

All of this would create an opportunity for individuals
and families, by the time their visas are granted, to
feel comfortable in their surroundings and want to stay
and become part of the community, rather than be drawn to
ethnic ghettoes in the major cities.

The current system alienates asylum-seekers. And if they're
alienated at the start, they'll remain alienated. When
they're eleased from detention they're scarred and
diaffected, they've lost their skills and don't speak
English. So, all too often they fall into the arms of
the waiting fundamentalists and are merely more fuel
to the fire.

Surely our decision-makers of all political persuasions
could come up with smarter solutions. Of course its
far easier and gets more mass appeal by offering
simple answers to complex problems. But that's such a
superficial approach. We deserve better.

Dear Bazz,

What makes you think that it was only people
on the "Left" who were booing? From what was
shown on the news - there were people from all
political persuasions who were part of the
crowd outside the Sydney Town Hall. You have
to realise that at present people are unhappy.
From all walks of life and all political peruasions.
And that is something that all political parties
have to deal with at the next election.
BTW: - let us not forget that some 100,000 Australians
turned out in the Melbourne CBD (of all political
persuasions) to pay tribute to Sir Robert Menzies
after he died at age 83. This provides an indication
of the respect with which he was held by so many.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I totally agree with you - Bob Hawke is a class act.
But he's not alone. There were many there at the
Memorial Service from all walks of life and politics,
who paid their respects - including the PM.

Oh come on Foxy, do you really believe the gathering was anywhere within
cooee of a 50% crowd ?

Re the immigrants, I am sure many would be fine, but to sort out the chaff is
just too much to expect us to do.
Incidentally, I was at a talk this morning on microbiology, and the speaker
stated that many of the untreatable bacteria have come from the middle east with
the surge of people from the troubles. The hospitals are looking at isolation wards but
are afraid of the PC backlash.

There are more problems than just a few hundred terrorists.

Foxy,
What utter garbage you write. The illegal entrants deserve alienation because they are shonks who gate crash our country. They deserve no respect. The best method of dealing with them is what the current government is doing, taking the incentive away from attempting to come. Isn't it great that the boats have stopped coming?

I think it is greatly exaggerated that muslims are being abused in the streets. Muslims playing the victim! I think it a rare occurance and what do they expect anyway, as they slaughter their own and others. One side seems no better than the other. So much for the 'religion of peace'.

The sooner we stop muslim immigration the better life will be for future Aussies.

Foxy, I wasn't talking about the illegals, Australia's population has expanded by two million in ten years, we're already seeing apartment developments where the residents are all Chinese and proposals for exclusive, purpose built Asian enclaves such as Paranville in Hobart.
The massive and rapid demographic change in our cities is one among many shocks which have rattled the traditional Australian population.
I mean, it's literally shocking to walk down the main street of your suburb some days or to get on a train and not see a single White face.
This is from Paris but you get the drift, replace the Africans with Chinese and that's what you see at my local station at 7PM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-HItjgOdmo
We're mean and small because multiracialism is killing altruism, breaking down trust between neighbours and trust in the state/authorities, the more mixed a society becomes the less people go out, they don't invest, give to charity or volunteer as much, it's been observed in all Western countries.
http://american3rdposition.com/?p=11819

Foxy, there are no doubt some worthy candidates for permanent residency within our detention centres but what percentage? The experience of one well educated (and therefore open to assimilation and highly unlikely prone to Muslim extremism) is not justification to open the flood gates or fast-track the process for queue jumpers.

Although Dr Muderis claims he was only referred to as a number I find that very hard to believe. I simply don't believe our Australian detention staff are that cold hearted. And Dr Muderis' claims there were several doctors and highly skilled detainees, that is simply hearsay and not solid evidence. Does he say anything about the outcome for these 13 doctors, did he feel the desire to stay in touch and support their applications?

I don't like the long detention process or children being locked up any more than you do but the suggestion these people are open to the idea of being "educated and rehabilitated, attending classes about Australian history, culture and lifestyle and how to assimilate into their new country's society" defies the reality that most are uneducated, unskilled and unwilling to assimilate. Regretfully it takes two to build a win-win outcome and a lot of these people are not willing to give up their old way of thinking.

I don't see how talking 'Team Australia' and encouraging vigilance is specifically anti-Muslim or why the Muslims take it that way. I don't see that as a valid example of 'the contradictions.' The sad fact is, the terrorist potential is within the Muslim community. The Muslims need to disassociate themselves from the extremists, openly and frequently.

There is no excuse for yabbos abusing anyone and again sadly because of the difference in appearance not only Muslims, but anyone with ethnicity are likely targets for ignorant racist and shameful behaviour, but that is not something created by this Government... yabbos (and racism) are unfortunately deeply engrained in Australian society and have been as far back as it goes.

I am sticking by my opinions and am extremely
disappointed to read some of the commentary
in this discussion. Dr Muderis writes about
what he experienced. He does not sensationalise
anything. And he was simply a number at curtin.

I gave Dr Muderis as only one example of an asylum
seeker. There are many others - and they do outnumber
the ones who hear about in the media and from our
current politicians. Every human being deserves something
better than having their lives dismissed in a flood of
simplistic rhetoric, posturing and crass political
point-scoring.

This is a problem that will not go away. These are people
who end up on the fringes of Australian society. As stated
earlier the fundamentalists feed of their isolation to
create even greater divisions in our community.
It's sad for us all. I prefer to think that decision-
makers of all political persuasions and the people who do
their bidding could come up with smarter solutions than
what we currently have.

I get it. You guys don't agree. No surprises there.

As for what the percentage of "booers" where well
Dear Bazz, I can't prove it was 50 percent of the
crowd. And you can't prove that it wasn't. So what's
your point?

Hey, even Prince Charles has started to have concerns.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820743/Prince-Charles-calls-Muslim-leaders-stop-indescribable-tragedy-persecution-Christians-Middle-East.html

And why is there hardly anyone else speaking of this in mainstream media?

How about those that have made numerous areas of Sydney no go areas for white Ozzies, & the cops?

How about those who have made my future mother in law, [another white Ozzie], too frightened to go out alone, in Penrith?

Foxy you have to come out of your Technicolor dream world, & those leafy green suburbs, & into the real world.

These people are a growing disaster.

Dear Hasbeen,

Don't you and others see why this problem exists?
The current system alienates people. And if they're
alienated at the start, they'll remain alienated.
We need to create opportunities for individuals
and their families to feel comfortable in their
surroundings and want to contribute to this country
and become part of the community, rather than be
drawn to ethnic ghettoes in the major cities
where they fall into the arms of the waiting
fundamentalists.

We need to change the current system because it
obviously is not working, as you point out.

Foxy,
You said, "I prefer to think that decision-
makers of all political persuasions and the people who do
their bidding could come up with smarter solutions than
what we currently have"

The government has stopped the boats from coming. Is that not the smartest solution? Can you see a better solution?

End of problem!

Hi Foxy, sorry to join in late.

Firstly, both Turnbull and Bishop are very capable replacements.

Secondly, given labors deplorable last two terms, the libs couldn't possibly loose the next election, as labor would have to win it, which would be an unusual but welcome change to say the least.A party winning an election rather than one loading. But, for labor to do that they would have to reinvent themselves and Bill Shorten is doing a great job of not reinventing as he is a union heavy weight turned labor leader and as the saying goes, a leopard can't change it's spots.

As for the boos at Goughs memorial, what else would you expect from a primarily labor crowd.

Suze, nice little feminist dig at the end there. Of cause it would have nothing to do with the fact that two of our worst leaders in history, Gillard and Bligh were female would it!

Dear rehctub,

Thanks for jumping into the fray.

Not sure if the crowd outside the Sydney Town Hall
was primarily a Labor one as you suggest.
I think that the booing
came as a result of the frustrations that people
are currently feeling and it came from sll sorts
of people that made up the crowd.

From talking to some of my neighbours
and colleagues of all political persuasions
- it seems that many of them have lost
trust in our current leaders.
That is unfortunate for all
sides of politics because if a leader is seen to
have integrity and the nation's best interests at
heart he can use this goodwill to convince the
people that their policies are in the national interest.
However if the public no longer trust you, and don't
like you, there's little you can do to advocate
your agenda. Hence the booing at the Memorial Service
from a wide audience.

Normally the slide in personal attributes takes a
number of years. For Mr Abbott the slide seems to have
occurred before he's really got started.

Foxy,
If you are specifically referring to the muslim problem, then yes we need a new solution and that is to stop further muslim immigration. This would limit the problem to the current numbers, or a little more.

Most of those causing us grief are born here so we cannot take away their citizenship. We have to face the fact that our politicians made a grievous mistake by allowing their parents in and we have to live with that, but we do not have to escalate it by allowing more in.

These people have shown us they will not integrate and hold our society in contempt. They also refuse to compromise on cultural matters so the issues are ongoing.

Foxy most of the time you express a reasonably level head and even though I generally tend to disagree with your political preferences I respect your opinion.

I'm not sure why you are so adamantly defending a position that those doing the booing came from across the political spectrum but common sense suggests otherwise. The event was as much a Labor celebration as it was a Whitlam memorial. The crowd was likely a 70 - 30 split or even 80-20. Any Coalition supporters who also felt the need to attend simply wouldn't have the need or lack of manners to behave that way. As shameful as it is, the boo-ers were either Labor or Greens, more likely the second.

OP, "Will Abbott survive?"

LOL

Haven't you accepted the results of the last federal election as yet?

For goodness sakes you were already pointing the bone at the incoming government before PM Abbott and his ministers were even sworn in.

The OP is a classic of desperate spin. Honestly now, how in the world could a few serial demonstrators who don't know how to behave at a funeral lead to a change in government?

You are just going to have to wait until the next election.

BTW, electors don't get elections wrong and the Labor/Greens crew weren't 'robbed', they thoroughly earned being shown the door by voters and there can be no doubt about that.

Foxy, of course I have no figure of the percentage of Lab/Lib supporters.
However I applied common sense.
The Whitlam government was such a monumental disaster that those Lib supporters
that turned up just wanted to be sure he was dead ! To quote a leftie !

Your support of moslems as a group is naive.
There is no country where they have migrated to more than 1% where they
have merged into the population and show no signs of ever doing so.
In most countries they are enforcing sharia law by street violence against women
and how they are dressed. Even putting up signs near Petticoat Lane that you
are entering a Sharia Law area. The Tower Hamlets council has to employ a
staff to go around every day taking them down.
The situation in France appears to be worse.

Why do you support such a sinister threat to this country ?
You have more to lose than I do !

Foxy,
The crowd outside were about 600 labor late comers not able to enter the Town Hall because it was full. There was not a balance of 300 Liberals in the Crowd.

"The current system alienates people". Rubbish Foxy. These people were given every opotunity that every migrant, or local was ever given.

There was no more lack of welcome until they started to become objectionable. I have experienced this wave of hate, when I merely stopped to buy a coffee in a now Muslim area of Sydney.

I was left in now doubt that my room was preferable to my custom.

Even in the most Italian parts of Melbourne or Sydney I have never felt anything but welcome, but once the Muslim population reaches a moderate level, the move to eliminate the original population starts.

I will try to keep it short.

All of your concerns come out loud and clear.

Firstly to the booers outside the Sydney Town
Hall - give it a rest in blaming only Labor and the
Greens. Who really knows what the booers felt, who
they were politically,
and why they booed. It's all conjecture.
The fact remains as the media tells us - many
Australians are very unhappy with the current
political agenda in this country at present.
And I for one believe that it's only going to
get worse.

As for your strident views on asylum seekers, et
and anti-Muslims? I understand your concerns.
It's so easy to buy into what the media presents
and the political rhetoric. I haven't been back
to Sydney for decades - so I really am in no
position to judge what has happened to areas of
Sydney. I may get quite a shock as you point out.

However, logic dictates that most Muslims in this
country are not a problem - judging from statistics
given of the trouble-makers, their numbers appear
quite small in comparison to the Muslim population.
It's the extremists within the group that cause
problems and we need to find better ways and better
programs with the help and co-operation of the
Muslim communities to find better solutions to this
problem because as was pointed out - this is a
problem that is ongoing.

As for Tony Abbott's unpopularity - the following link
may help clarify things for you:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-22/dunlop-trust-me-abbott-is-a-pm-without-power/5470764

OP, "This discussion is not meant as an attack on Mr Abbott. That would be an utterly shallow approach"

What a crock of *bleep* on both counts, as demonstrated by the need to deny form tors the rather obvious political partisanship that infers the challenge of a strong leaders from the disrespectful boos of serial protesters, the usual rent-a-crowd.

It is passive aggression, simple as. Nothing to see here, but surprised at the patient souls who can be bothered responding to an answering machine on continuous loop, as political partisans always are.

In the news Obama has become a lame duck President as his previous supporters cast around again, as is their regular ritual, to find another who will tell them what they want to hear. Recycle moneybags Hilary Clinton and try again with the mantra, 'All women MUST support the Sisterhood of very well off educated white women'?

'A few people have commented here about how Islam threatens us. '

actually Campbelli the regressive denialist are a far greater threat. They are happy to promote the murder of tens of thousands of unborn each year and are deliberatley ignorant to the teachings of Mohammed as you have chosen to be of Christ. They also seem to ignore the daily terrorist attacks on Israel and are happy to highlight deaths caused by Muslims using kids as human shields. Then again I suppose their selective memory of the history of secularist such as Stalin, Mao and currently North Korea is in line with their dishonesty.

otb,

I'm sorry that you feel that way and have
as usual nothing new to add to any discussion.
I can simply respond as politely as possible
and repeat for your benefit that a leader who
is seen to have integrity and the nation's
better interests at heart uses this goodwill to
convince the masses their policies are in the
national interest. If you start from a position
of goodwill a leader has the chance to confront
unpopular issues (think Hawke and Howard).

However problems arise if the public don't trust,
and don't like you. There's little you can do to
advocate your agenda (think Gillard, think Abbott).

Normally as stated earlier the slide in personal
attributes takes a number of years. The warning for
Tony Abbott is the slide has occurred before he's
really started.

The following link clarifies a few things for you:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-22/dunlop-trust-me-abbott-is-a-pm-without-power/5470764

Blaming me for discussing the man's failings is not logical.
This is a discussion after all - and I am not attacking
the man - simply responding to comments and
citing what's in the news and media.
If you want to blame someone - blame them. The general
consensus in the country at present is not looking
good for any of the major parties. Neither leader
seems to be popular even in their own parties -
and it will be interesting to see how quickly they'll dump
their leader once they look like they might lose the
next election.

Quote, "Blaming me for discussing the man's failings is not logical"

LOL, nice try. Well, not nice really, but yes to trying.

No-one is doing that, but as discussed in my post above, the OP is desperately trying to get some traction for speculative gossip. So negative.

Dear runner,

You have a very, very, bad habit (along with a few on
this forum) of making assumptions about people
you don't really know.

Prejudice is an irrational,
inflexible attitude and one of its key features is
that its always rooted in generalisations. Just because
a person gives certain links in a discussion - does not
necessarily mean that this is their personal opinion.
They may be merely trying to introduce some balance
that for example there are more than one religious
group guilty of atrocities. I also don't understand
your self-proclaimed "Christian" attitude - you attack
others and pre -judge them - yet you don't make allowances
for what you in effect are doing yourself. Your behaviour
is the antithesis of what Christ teaches us - and as a
self-proclaimed "Christian" you should take note of your
own behaviour before being so dogmatic about the
behaviour of others.

Foxy: "This discussion is not meant as an attack on Mr Abbott. That would be an utterly shallow approach."

I don't think that entrance to your discussion did you any credit as it allows you to be 'cut you to bits' by some on this page.

These people - who by the way do have "selective" or "their own" views, will try and set these views as the ones everyone should follow.

One example: I am now constantly reading the word "assimilation" or how certain people should "assimilate" - all over this website. As a vegetarian - what am I supposed to assimilate with - mince meat?

Foxy

u have shown yourself to be an extremley poor judge of character. Why should I start listening to you now?

Dear Nathan,

Thank You for your comments.

If we can cultivate compassion for those who have
hurt us, we have the possibility of overcoming our
anger, pain and fear. Compassion is a great medicine.

Dear runner,

I'm the last person you should listen to.
As a follower of the teachings of Christ - His
teachings are what you should be following.
I am merely expressing an opinion. I'm no sage
or wise person. Just a humble sinner.

Natham,
It is good that you are compassionate, but My suggestion is that you reserve your compassion for those non muslims that have been murdered and displaced by ISIL over the past couple of years. It is not even their fight, they just happened to be there.

The, so called, moderate muslims have shown little sympathy for the non muslims in the conflict.

Come on Nathan, do you even know what assimilation means? All that is being said in relation to Muslim immigrants failing to assimilate is there are some coming into a country but refusing to adopt its values and way of life. Why would anyone choose to go live someplace if they don't want to "do as the Romans do."

It wouldn't matter if one Muslim family didn't assimilate anymore than it does if one individual stops eating meat. But when whole groups gravitate to certain boroughs and essentially take over the cultural identity of the area, whilst also alienating those who lived there originally, that's going to get up people's noses. Adding to the problem is within this particular ethnic group we get some of their religious leaders preaching hate for Australia. Its this kind of anti-assimilation that is concerning.

Nathan surely you are smart enough to see this outside the context of your personal life situation. If you are still confused or about to defend your previous comment - here is the definition of assimilation - to bring into conformity with the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like; adapt or adjust:
"to assimilate the new immigrants." If that's a concept that offends you, you are welcome to move into one of the Muslim areas and see how far your vegetarian philosophy gets you. (I am also a vegetarian)

I'm not quite sure how the Muslim question made it's way into this discussion ? However, what I find really quite extraordinary, is how little the broader Muslim community actually does, in terms of trying to impede or block many of these so called 'restless' and radicalised young Muslims blokes, from following a straight path directly to ISIL and their cohorts in Syria ?

In fact I've heard several parents of these so called disenfranchised young Muslims, publicly lament how their young sons have openly defied them, and as such, are now travelling to Syria in order to fight ?

Surely it's the individual parent's responsibility, to at least try to dissuade their siblings from engaging in this sort of illegal activity ? Just voicing their opposition, will achieve nothing as it's already been proven. And at the very least, it does illustrate just how little parental control they exercise over their kids, who seem able to do as they like, provided it's in accordance with Koran ? I was always under the impression, that one of the main tenets of Islam was obedience ?

'I'm the last person you should listen to.
As a follower of the teachings of Christ - His
teachings are what you should be following.
I am merely expressing an opinion. I'm no sage
or wise person. Just a humble sinner.

strange Foxy how u in judging me you were defending someone willing to trash Christ in his/her post.

ConservativeHippie,

"Assimilation" as you put it: "to bring into conformity with the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like; adapt or adjust."

I thought you would know that is simply not legal in Australia if a person is not breaking any Australian law to conform with anything, of any nature.

Some of the first Muslims that migrated to and settled in Australia were the Afghan camel drivers during the mid to late 19th century. The following website has an image of a tiny corrugated iron shed which is reputedly both the smallest and the oldest mosque in Australia.

http://www.aussietowns.com.au/town/bourke-nsw

So it is quite clear, that people of a Muslim background didn't just arrive in Australia for the first time, in say the last 20-30 years. Many Muslim people have benefited from their families (from the early camel drivers), and from that, being born in Australia in later generations.

"To assimilate the new immigrants, if that's a concept that offends you, you are welcome to move into one of the Muslim areas and see how far your vegetarian philosophy gets you." Your arguments simply don't steak up - because they are not legal - just like if I wanted to ban (a whole town or suburb) from eating meat, let alone getting them to move out of their own home - the courts wouldn't rule in my flavour!

o sung wu,
On page 3 you will find Foxy introduced the illegals issue and later the muslim matters by claiming we alienate them and suggesting we should be more compassionate.

Just from my observations, it seems muslim parents are very strict with the daughters but the boys have much more freedoms. They do as they please, go when and where they want and mix with whom they wish. Teachers tell me the boys are uncontrollable by female teachers. I have heard that the biggest users of porn sites are muslim males, yet muslims claim to be offended by girls in bikinis and call them whores. In your days were there not many 'working girls' in Canterbury Rd area, after muslim cliental.

I think a lot of conflict between anglo and muslim young males occurs because of the strict controls parents impose on muslim girls. They are not available to socialize so the boys try the anglo girls and get angry when their approaches are refused. But you wont alter muslim culture.

I lived and worked in Griffith, NSW, which has a large Italian population, even here there was tension with the Italians. The young males would date and go out with non-Italian women, but not marry them.

There was a trend for arranged Italian marriages to young women from Italy, who often had very poor english skills.

Again the girls were under very strict control, but the males tended to do what they wanted.

So this type of behaviour is not strictly limited to one group, but to many different groups within Australia.

Dear oh dear.

I've recently had a wake-up call when I read an
article about a nine year old girl asking if they
(Muslims) were going to kill us?

It seems that some people listen to the news with the their
families and they're concerned about ISIS and burqas.

They don't bother to explain that ISIS are a terrorist
organisation and that most Muslims have lived in this
country for decades. Some are fifth generation Australians.
And are peaceful people.

Of course it doesn't help that Public Transport Victoria
has removed the rubbish bins at city and major country
stations in response to the "heightened terror alert."

Fear is creeping across the countryside like a cancer.
Last week in Lalor a Muslim woman's arm was broken after
she was pushed to the road in a sickening, unprovoked
racist attack.

Our federal government seems to be encouraging people to
turn against their neighbours with increasingly hysterical
rhetoric. This is a distraction from people dying in
detention centres, from a budget that punishes the
poorest, and as stated earlier from the contradiictions
between what the government claims to stand for (inclusive
'Team Australia') and what it does and is doing by whipping
up fear of Muslims through "terror alerts."

All this may win approval from certain sectors of the
community - but it is doing tremendous harm to decent
peace-loving people who have been part of this country
for decades. And that is sad for us all.

Foxy,

Take one part fear, one part bigotry, one part ignorance...mix well with a little govt constructed "terror hysteria".

Sprinkle via eager MSM over population and - Viola! - one section of the population demonised and further marginalised.

Thank you Mr Abbott and company for making Oz a little meaner than it had been previously.

For Labor to govern in their own right they would need to pick up 21 seats, and hold the 55 they presently have, a big ask in anyone's language. I think presently Labor have a good chance of winning back maybe half that number but little chance of taking government. What is more likely next time around is the balance of power in the Senate will shift again. Presently the government requires 6 extra votes on top of their 33 existing votes. The 2 possibilities in the Senate is Labor/Greens regain control, but more likely is the Liberals loosing a couple of seats and relying even more so on minor parties and independents.
Its a long way out to the next election and as they say a week is a long time in politics, many things could happen over the nest year or so, which could see a major shift one way or the other.
I predict a second term for this mob, but they will be in for a much more torrid time than they are having now.

Prejudice is an irrational, inflexible attitude
toward an entire category of people. The word literally
means "prejudged."

The key feature of prejudice is
that it is always rooted in generalisations and so ignores
the differences among individuals.

Therefore someone who is prejudiced against Arabs will tend
to have a negative attitude toward any individual Arab in
the belief that all Arabs share the same supposed traits.

People tend to think in terms of general categories,
if only to enable them to make sense of the world
by simplifying its complexity.

We all probably have our own stereotypes, for example
of what our Indigenous people are like. The essence of
prejudice thinking, however, is that the stereotype is
not checked against reality. It is not modified by
experiences that contradict the rigid image. If a
prejudiced person finds that an individual member of a group
does not conform to the stereotype for the group as
a whole, the evidence is simply taken as "the exception that
proves the rule" and not as grounds for questioning the
original belief. As was shown earlier in this discussion
when I gave Dr Munjed Al Muderis as an example.

Another factor that contributes to prejudice is
scapegoating - placing the blame for one's troubles on
some relatively powerless group. Scapegoating typically
occurs when the members of one group feel threatened but
are unable to retaliate against the real source of the
threat.

The outstanding example of a scapegoated group is the
Jews in Nazi German, who were conveniently blamed for
the country's economic troubles.

A more contemporary example comes from Great Britain, where
prolonged recession had caused chronic unemployment among
working-class white youths. Unable to strike at the real
source of their problem - the 'system' - some of these
youths had taken to assaulting Pakistani immigrants,
whom they believed to be competing for the few available jobs
at the same level. Such attacks became so common that
a new word came into being - "Paki-bashing."

Instead of associating ISIS with the word "Muslim,"
better words for ISIS would be "Extremists," or
"Criminals," or "Terrorists."

Dear Poirot,

You've hit the nail right on the head.

And most of us should be ashamed of the direction
in which this country is currently being lead.

Dear Paul,

You may be right - Liberals may win another
term because Labor doesn't present well under
the current leadership. However I'm not sure
if Mr Abbott will remain as the leader prior
to the next election for the simple reason
that in stunningly quick time Tony Abbott's
popularity has plummeted to the depths that
saw Julia Gillard pack up and move out for
Kevin Rudd's return.

Mr Abbott's election triumph has not been followed
by solid opinion poll rating with a very high
percentage of voters not satisfied with his
performance.

Personally I feel that his days are numbered.
Especially with others waiting in the wings for his job.

Foxy, opinion polls presently favor Labor, but at election time, there generally is a late swing back to the incumbent, and that was clear in 2013. Fortunately for the Coalition with the electoral bias towards the big two, and the even grater bias towards the leading party in this case the Coalition with 53.5% of the two party vote and 90 seats, things favor Abbott at the moment. Having said that the biggest danger to his leadership might come from within. There are a couple of dozen marginal Coalition seats held by no more than 3%, there could be some very worried conservative backbench MP's in Canberra.
On Abbott, before he become leader and eventually PM in the Howard years, Abbott was perceived within the Liberal Party as being of rather mediocre leadership material, I think his standing in Liberal eyes has improved since then, but not by a great deal. An economic downturn with rising unemployment would see pressure mount on his leadership for sure.

LOL, Foxy and her ginger group gathered around the cauldron hoping to stir up strife with speculative gossip, unhappy before the election and unhappy after, "Will somebody rid us of this government, democracy too and that tiresome freedom of speech".

In a one-horse race you can always bet on self-interest eh? Your entitlements are threatened. That Gough Whitlam sure set up a huge victim industry with thousands hanging off the taxpayers' teat and thousands more public bureaucrats and 'consultants' to go with it. Any wonder the federal government past and present cannot afford pensions and care for the aged.

otb,

Why can't you engage as I've pointed out to
you in the past - in a debate with people?

You can say I'm wrong on X-Y or-Z.

And back it with evidence and facts - (not
sweeping generalisations).

But kindly don't unject some kind of personal or some rude
remarks about characteristics related to assumptions
you have made about me. You slur me and then try to demean
me and then attack me for your slurs because my
opinions differ from yours.

Shame on you!

Foxy,
You try in vain to blame the government for increasing fear in the community regarding terrorist activity affecting us. Yet you ignore the media reports of mass slaughter of captives in Iraq, the rapes and women taken as 'wives' for IS fighters. Then you ignore the direct threats made to us by IS, not to mention the pics on social media of an Aussie fighter holding up two severed heads and his son holding up the head of a bloke daddy had cut off. How about the pics of kneeling people being shot in the head.

If you want to blame someone for instilling fear then present an accurate picture. The government would be remiss if it covered these atrocities up.

About time you woke up to the real muslim world.

Foxy, you seem you be intent on blaming us for our attitude to moslems.
BTW don't try to make it racist by diverting the discussion to Arabs.
That was a pretty poor tactic. You can legitimately call is religious.

Instead of blaming us why don't you look at the record in Europe and India.
Are you really that biased ?

Foxy,

Where the OP offers nothing but speculative gossip to flog a dead horse, some mild satire in return is warranted.

Indian saying, 'Upon discovering that her horse is dead, the rider should immediately dismount'.

yep the regressives sure know how to turn the table and make terrorist (of which the vast majority are muslims) the victims. You need an MBA in arts for that kind of logic. Poirot and Foxy must be heading towards a phd.

", Foxy and her ginger group gathered around the cauldron hoping to stir up strife with speculative gossip..."

Here's otb, the self-proclaimed defender of feminine honour, indulging in his fave pastime. He can't argue on any subject without putting the boot into women - unless he's singled one out as a club to beat the rest of 'em over the head with.

Funny really....

Hi there BANJO...

I reckon you've fully encapsulated the problems that exist in Muslim families. Young females are strictly controlled and regulated by the parents, as well as by their older brothers. In fact they're perceived as almost sacrosanct, even inviolable by other of her family members ? Therefore, beware any male who is foolish enough to seek to dishonour the young Islamic female. Retribution would be both swift and ferocious by the male members of her family.

On a personal note, I don't find their strict observance of this precise practice, all that unpalatable in 'principle' at least ? Young female members of any family should be thoroughly protected by the male members of her family !

Regardless of anyone's political persuasion (this issue is well above politics), nobody should have any illusions, that Islamic extremism is alive and well here in Sydney, Australia - specifically Bankstown and it's environs. Another little aside if you like BANJO, I was recently (reliably) informed, the current demographic breakdown that currently exists out at Long Bay Gaol, is as follows...the Criminal Bikie gangs; vs. the Lebanese (Islamic) gangs; vs. a few smaller Asian players; and coming a long last are a few very fearful Anglos, representing the likes of you and I. Next to the Bikies, the Lebanese are the next most powerful criminal group in the entirety of the NSW Prison system ! A frightening statistic to be sure !

Anybody who tries to deny this 'emergency', will do so at their own peril - Still what would I know eh ? I'm just a stupid, deluded ol' man. Thanks again for explaining how this Islamic question crept into FOXY'S Topic.

Interesting little item on the news yesterday.
A new mosque is to be built at Revesbry , it will be twice the size of St Mary's Cathederal in Sydney.
What's the betting the money is coming from Saudi Arabia ?
Not bad for a downtrodden minority.

Hi there BAZZ...

Interesting very interesting. Yet there are still those who honestly believe, the Australian community, some with strong Christian values, can peacefully co-exist with their Islamic neighbour's ? With many, perhaps we can. With others...never. Under no other circumstance, can I ever have hoped, to be proven so completely wrong !

BAZZ I should never have agreed to grab a drink with some of my former colleagues ? What they're telling me in these informal settings, is absolutely menacing and totally petrifying. Not for me, for the younger members of our extended family ? Furthermore, many of my ex-colleagues reckon our government is too far behind the eight ball, and yet to have caught up, and that's with all the good will in the world ?

Remember, you want to know the better odds with a horse at Randwick ? Have a QT with a decent Bookie ? You want to know the REAL situation with a specific crime, have a QT with a working detective ?

Foxy, you just can't have an intelligent debate with the 'Radical Right' Beach suffers from progressive paranoia. As for the rest of 'Team Ratbag' the religious fruit over indulges on the communion wine, then posts the most illogical clap trap, suffering from one too many god moments, I suspect. Hassy's had it, his posts no doubt the result of an extreme hassy hissy fit, medication badly needed there. As for the rest, pile them into Hippies Kombi, and let them spend a week at a Liberal love in, engaging in their favorite pastime, Abbott worship, they would enjoy that with a port and cigar. It will give them time off from the fruit factory, where the all engage in serious navel gazing.

O sung wu, the London police have arrested four said to have intended
to stab the Queen at an event in London.
Imagine the reaction that would have.

Well Muslims would get along with their neighbours better if they didn't constantly race bait and come up with these ridiculous "hate crime" hoaxes.
http://www.theweeklyreviewmelbournetimes.com.au/story/1813219/muslim-woman-suffers-broken-arm-in-racist-attack/
Have a look at Mum's "broken" arm, no cast, here's a better picture:
http://images.canberratimes.com.au/2014/10/27/5923390/Article%20Lead%20-%20wide6272290111cdk0image.related.articleLeadwide.729x410.11cdat.png1414375833716.jpg-620x349.jpg
Of course they didn't report the incident to Police but went to the Left Wing press, as usual and it appears that she hasn't had medical attention for her "broken" arm, oh and her daughter "just happens" to be an Anti Racism activist.
Ditto the woman mentioned in the article who was allegedly thrown from a tram and injured her foot, she chose not to report it to the Police but notified her local Anti Racism activist first.
What also flies in the face of reason is that the majority of people so far arrested for these "rants" and assaults have been middle aged women and bystanders have intervened almost immediately in every case. It's extremely unlikely that a "big guy" would attack a woman he didn't know in a crowded shopping centre carpark in a neighbourhood with hundreds, if not thousands of Muslim men roaming about every day and CCTV cameras all over the place.
I don't have to go into detail explaining what would have happened to this mysterious attacker if Muslim men had witnessed the incident or their reaction even if they'd not seen the actual attack and were convinced that it had really happened.

Gentlemen,

Let me start by saying that since the recent
anti-terrorist raids in Australia, there's been
a notable rise in anti-Muslim sentiment and
attacks. Some people are saying, "Go back to
where you came from," however as Sadia Samreen
Khan, a fifth-generation Australian
stated in a recent article and pointed out,
"Where would I go back to? Coonamble?"

People seem to associate ISIS with Muslims.
This needs to be corrected. ISIS is a Sunni extremist,
jihadist, unrecognised state, and self-proclaimed
caliphate based in Iraq and Syria. It has been
designated as a terrorist organisation by the
United Nations, The European Union, the UK, the US,
Australia, Canada, Turkey, Saudia Arabia, Indonesia,
and Israel.

The United Nations and Amnesty International have
accused the group of grave human rights abuses and
Amnesty International has found it guilty of
ethnic cleansing on a "historic scale."

The group's actions, authority, and theological
interpretations have been very severely and widely
criticised around the world and notably within the
Muslim Communities.

I can't make it any clearer for you.

Dear Bazz,

If you choose to tarnish an entire group of people
with the same brush because of the actions of some
depraved extremists within that group then you
clearly are biased and I make no apology for my
post on prejudice. If the shoe fits...
As for the new mosque? Again mere conjecture on
your part, and more of your bias being illustrated.

Dear runner,

Your claim that most terrorists are Muslims - is not
accurate. As I stated earlier -ISIS - their actions
authority, and theological interpretations have been
widely criticised around the world and notably within
the Muslim Community. There is a wide difference
between ISIS and most Muslims. Most Muslims are not
terrorists. Therein lies the difference. BTW - one
does not need an MBA (it's not an Arts Degree) or a
PHD - simply logic that goes further than from A to B.

otb,

Well chosen analogy for your "mild satire,"
of beating a dead horse considering your
penchance and love of beating so many people on
this forum.

Dear Jay,

These were not "hoax's" as you claim.
And "The Age," is not a "Left-Wing,"
newspaper. It's a sad thing when women
(Muslim or any other) feel they can't report
incidents to the police. All these incidents
should not be brushed under the carpet. The
fact that you're attempting to do precisely
that says a great deal about you - more so
than the women you're trying to denigrate.
Besides if the government can use the media
why should the same media not present another
perspective to illustrate to Australians just what the
hysteria and fear that the government is promoting
can cause. Seems fair to balance things out.
Freedom of speech and all that - as otb keeps telling us.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/muslim-womans-arm-broken-in-racist-attack-20141027-11cdat.html

I'm not denigrating anyone, I'm caller her and her daughter liars whose storytelling is politically motivated, the daughter is an anti Racism activist so we can't take anything she says seriously.
This duo has taken their story to the left wing press instead of to the Police because they knew it'd be printed without too many awkward questions, such as "Why isn't your broken arm in a cast?" and "Why didn't you report this?".
Speaking of the left wing press, this is a timely piece on the "religion of peace" in Indonesia, are a million murders enough to grab your attention?
http://www.theage.com.au/world/the-look-of-silence-joshua-oppenheimers-film-confronts-indonesias-brutal-past-20141108-11hsg3.html
I'm not an "Islamophobe", I've got nothing to fear from them, I see them primarily the enemy of my enemy, as a bulwark against Liberalism and my world view is closer to Islam's subordination of the individual to the group than neoliberal social atomisation.
I'm just amazed that liberals and leftists are still defending them, playing along with their dirty tricks and false allegations and not screaming the house down demanding that Islam be banned before it's too late.
Muslims have stopped multiculturalism and patholgical altruism dead in their tracks, so for that at least I'm grateful.

Dear Jay,

Conjecture doesn't count.

When you rely on surface appearances and
false stereotypes rather than in-depth
knowledge of others your ability to assess
and understand people accurately is
compromised.

There's no doubt BAZZ, this whole question of the suspected Islamization of some components of the broader Australian community, has substantially divided many of us. There are those of us who genuinely believe it's been a success. Consequently, there has been very few occurrences where many of these young Muslims males, who've actually been 'radicalised' ? And there are others amongst us, who believe any further Islamic immigration, as being quite threatening, because it manifestly increases the chance of our entire Australian way of life, being substantially transformed for all time ? Personally, I really don't know ? However, I would always err on the side of caution, quite unlike Britain, who today are paying the ultimate price.

Hi o sung wu, good post. Nice to see you still on deck.

The thing I find most interesting is it is the very ones who want to use the global warming scam to destroy our lifestyle, also want to import more Muslims, which will do the exact same thing.

It is rather telling that where they screech precautionary principle to promote CO2 reduction & further the scam, they are totally against using the same precautionary principle when it comes to reducing the Muslim intake.

Anything to destroy our civilisation.

Isn't it great to see that great pretender Obama getting a kick up the you know where.

I think it is fair to say that any who think Abbott is done are indulging in the most rampant of wishful thinking. Come the election all thinking Ozzies will know Labor mean more boat people, more Muslims, & a carbon tax.

They have been pushing the line that Abbott doesn't keep his promises, when we know Labors are totally worthless.

Abbott needs to toughen up sometime soon, & the US election might help him grow the necessary backbone. There have been recent signs that it might have started.

As a petrol head, I love my cars & driving, but if I have to pay a little extra for my petrol to keep the hospitals open, so be it.

Foxy said to me;
then you
clearly are biased and I make no apology for my
post on prejudice. If the shoe fits...

Hmmm, I wonder why ?
Yes strange, I am biased, I wonder if it is because I see what is happening
around the world.

Then we have apologists like Foxy, who will bend over backwards to avoid
seeing what is happening.
Foxy said;
People seem to associate ISIS with Muslims.
This needs to be corrected. ISIS is a Sunni extremist,
jihadist, unrecognised state, and self-proclaimed
caliphate based in Iraq and Syria.

Yes people do associate ISIS with muslims; I wonder why ?
Could it possibly be that they are moslims ?
Could it possibly be that Sunnis are moslims ?
Could it be that a Caliphate is a form of moslem political dictatorial government ?

It is the likes of Foxy that are protecting moslems, and are the real reason that
the politicians have gone to water.
That is not a dig at the Labour party but at all parties, especially the greens.

Frankly I fear for the country, I fear that we will have a civil war in the long run
and about the only people here that I see that will stand up to them are the Chinese.

Bazz,
The Chinese and the Indians are already fighting against Islamic insurgencies, as are Russia, The Phillipines, Burma and Thailand.
The word Sunni as I understand it can be translated as "fundamental" or "traditional" and the Koran permits Muslims to lie to non believers and apostates because it's taught that Allah has sealed their minds from the truth anyway.

Foxy,

Your thread on whether Abbott will survive is wishful thinking on your part. Threads with this theme have been abundant ever since he became leader of the liberals, and since Getup, labor and the unions have been running a smear campaign against him.

That Abbott is deeply unpopular among Labor voters is no surprise considering the thorough job he did in shredding Labor's credibility and humiliating two Labor PMs. The booing by labor bogans at the funeral is evidence of this.

The decision as to whether Abbott remains in power will be taken by the liberals with whom he is popular and respected. Julie Bishop is indeed extremely competent, and I would guess a future leader of the party. There is great contrast between her quiet competence and Juliar's populist incompetence.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I'm not sure where you get your facts from
however according to a recent poll conducted
by the Sydney Morning Herald voters when asked
who would be a better PM Tony Abbott or Julie
Bishop? Mr Abbott only managed 10 percent approval
whereas Julie Bishop received 90 percent.

Still, I agree that predicting the future is
a bit risky at the best of times.

Now to the topic of Muslims and ISIS.

Gentlemen,

I am not an "apologist" for Muslims - nor
am I ignoring what's happening overseas.
However, to compare Australia with either
the UK or Europe is not logical. They deal
with things totally differently and take
in much larger number than we do.

Australia
has always "erred on the side of caution,"
so to speak. From the "White Australia" government
policy - where the fears were that the
"yellow peril" would invade us from the North,
to post World War II immigration where
the government policy was one of mandatory "assimilation."

So the current fear-mongering is nothing new.
The targets change with politics.

What I object to is tarring all Muslims with the
same brush as ISIS extremists. That I do find
un-Australian. Where is the Australian sense of a
"fair go," where did that suddenly disappear to?

ISIS is not a recognised state - and they are a
globally recognised
terrorist organisation, and yes they may
be Sunnis but they have their own fanatical theological
interpretations of the Muslim religion - which differs greatly
from that of most Muslims. Anybody watch "Q and A," last
Monday evening where George Brandis faced the Muslim
Community in Bankstown?

Anyway, the current government has things under control,
so there should not exist the unwarranted encouragment
to people to turn against their neighbours and fellow
Australians.

Every human being deserves something better than having
their lives dismissed in a flood of simplistic rhetoric,
posturing and crass political point-serving.

The law will take care of the comparably small minority
of fundamentalists and extremists in this country, as
it has always done and will continue to do.

So Campbelli doesn't approve of the 'far right' comments. Boohoo.

Campbelli can't be bothered contributing a comment on the topic yet feels his opinion about other contributors is worth sharing. Guess that's it, those of us who aren't lefties or greenies (which makes us the far right) may as well sign off for good, so Campbelli and his mates can start a mutual admiration club.

Dear ConservativeHippie,

It may come as a surprise to you - but there are many
on this forum who are neither "Lefties," or "Greenies,"
people who actually vote for policies not parties.
However, the frustration is that the current government
provides
us with very little in the way of policies that make sense.
Hence the criticism.

BTW - For your information - this is a public forum
and there are many on this forum - who don't provide
much in the way of intelligent commentary or reasoned
debate. Still everyone is entitled to their opinion
(but not their facts). And slaming someone for simply
expressing an opinion - where there's so many others
doing the same thing - is not very balanced - and you
should know better. But then perhaps a nerve has been
touched. Hmmmmm.

Foxy,

If you poll the readers of the SMH who are predominately left whingers, either labor or green, then you will get a result far from representative of the public.

The SMH commissioned a random poll that showed that just recently JB was tied with TA in the general public, but that TA was far ahead with coalition voters.

Campbelli is just a prissy left whinger that is completely vacuous. He cannot even contribute to the dialogue but just fling his excrement. There is a word for this: Troll.

'Gee, these apologist right whingers are such girly boys. ' Actually Campbelli it is you regressives who confuse gender identity. Just check out the regressive mouth pieces like abc/sbs and you will see every perversion promoted. Do some homework before mouthing off your dubious dogmas.

That's what I thought,

A hissy fit from the prissy left whinger Camp belli.

G'day there HASBEEN...

Whenever I come across any of your 'threads', it gives me optimism. You're one of the few on this Forum who's NOT afraid to say exactly as you think ! Notwithstanding you do cop some flak for it, which seemingly you're indelibly immune !

You and I come from different branches of the armed services, but their respective principles and reasoning in many things, are absolutely identical. They inculcate, commencing with your Recruit Training, those important tenets of self discipline, a work ethic, pride in your uniform, a high standard of behaviour, grooming, an observation of tradition. And many other traits, or belief systems far too many to articulate herein. All of which have stood us both, in good stead, most of our adult life. In fact years after our separation from service life.

It's for this reason, notwithstanding we're of similar age, I honestly believe our particular approach to life, our respective vocations, our families, and our various social interactions, have been shaped in a more conservative mould, than perhaps if we were to come from say, a more progressive, a more modern academic environment ? Whereas they're often taught and encouraged to 'speak out' against the ills of the establishment, the government, society in general, if any of those institutions or conventions displeased them in some way ?

For me at least, I'm glad to have been consigned to a life of 'belief' and obedience, rather than provoking or disputing everything. It's for this reason, I believe Tony ABBOTT will survive, for if he doesn't, this country will be in a lot more trouble. I don't believe Mr SHORTEN is any better equipped to run the country than the incumbent Mr Abbott. Though credit when it's due, he (MR SHORTEN) is in 'lockstep' with the PM, when it comes to the interdiction of these abhorrent terrorist groups !

As I said at the outset, It's good to see your 'moniker' at the foot of each of your threads HASBEEN !

Dear Shadow Minister,

If you poll the extensive Murdoch Commentariat,
plus a host of new right think tanks and of course
the shock jocks - you will also get some very different
results on Mr Abbott's popularity.

Which just goes to show - how difficult it is
to gage the accuracy of election result predictions.
I do know on very good authority that despite what
you're trying to convince us of here on this forum -
Mr Abbott is not popular with many within the Coalition.
And he does appear judging from various news reports
to be considered by man voters as an embarrassment
and a total disaster. He's the butt of jokes globally.

He seems like a man increasingly out of touch with
ordinary, decent, hard-working Australians. Inevitably
they will be the ones who will decide whether they want
him to continue as their leader. The Coalition should
take a closer look at their chance of winning the next
election with Mr Abbott as leader at the helm.
It could be another Titanic if the current indications
are correct.

That's what I thought,

A hissy fit from the prissy left whinger Camp belli. Who came mincing through the thread to fling his excrement.

Foxy, you missed my point completely, which isn't much different than your own. You say - "there are many on this forum who are neither "Lefties," or "Greenies," people who actually vote for policies not parties."

Well there are people on this forum who have an alternative perspective to the Labor and the Greens that are moderates yet continually labelled 'the far right'.

My comment to Campbelli may have been sarcastic but it sure drew out his true nature. It's interesting that you had nothing to say about Campbelli's childish come backs (talk about hitting a nerve). Is there a double standard being applied?

Camp Belli,

You have taken the first step in becoming less of a prissy left whinger by providing a supporting link instead of just passing wind.

The next step would be to actually read the link in case it says exactly the opposite of what you are trying to show making you look like a complete pillock.

To quote "Tony Abbott’s best rating since April" with TA's approval better than at the election, he has the support of 87% of coalition voters and his approval rating is higher than Shortens.

Dear ConservativeHippie.

Thank You for your comments and explanation.

They are appreciated.

As for my not being critical of the comments
of certain posters?
No it's not a deliberate
or political choice. I usually comment
to provide a balance to someone's strident views
or when their facts are skewed. As a general
rule though, I don't like jumping onto the bandwagon
when others are already gung ho on doing that job.
As I could see was the case in this instance.

Dear Shadow Minister,

We can go around in circles on this issue -
but it won't achieve anything.
My facts differ from yours - but if it brings
you comfort you go on believing in your sources.
I shall stick with mine.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Here's two links to help broaden the discussion:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/ct-editorial/editorial-one-year-on-and-tony-abbott-yet-to-justify-trust-voters-put-in-him-20140907-10dmbi.html

And -

http://www.theage.com.au/comment-abbott-factor-scuppers-napthines-ambitions-20141029-11dfw6.html

Foxy,

Opinion polls are only of value if those being polled are representative of the public. Posing the same question in the Australian, the Telegraph, The SMH and the New Matilda will get very different results, none of which are of any real value.

The polls that I have quoted are all based on random sampling of the public.

Dear Shadow Minister,

The polls that I have quoted are also a random
sampling of the public.

But if you want to play the game of - "My polls are
better than yours," feel free to do so.
I did make it quite clear to you earlier that predicting
elections is a risky business at the best of times,
however the two links I gave you recently - should give
anyone food for thought.

What also really helps in any discussion is to read
from all sorts of sources. - It encourages critical
thinking without pre-determined bias.

Abbott and Victoria are a bad mix, he would be best to stay away for his party's sake.
Abbott claiming a particular road work will be a referendum, is the worst blunder he could have made.
They will not do well.

Foxy,

A reader poll is not a random sample of the public.

The reason that people are chosen at random is precisely to avoid a pre determined bias.

Dear Shadow Minister,

The polls that I cited earlier and were unacceptable
to you because they were according to you taken from
"Leftist" sources, were taken by random polling of over
8,541 voters.

But do keep trying.

Jeepers, Foxy,

You must be winning the debate.

Poor old SM's been reduced to pulling out the old "sweetie" for a bit of added oomph to his blather.

Yar, apologies to you, SM

(My little grey cells inform me that we have an SM impersonator on board)

Dear Poirot,

He does sound a bit put-out,
Poor man. Next he'll tell us that
Australia is only for Aussies.
Whatever that means. Not his usual
self at all. I'll have to be gentle
with him.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Now you take it easy old fella.
Don't get too upset.
It appears that I must have got to you in
my previous post. I should have taken your
age into consideration. Because sadly I can
see that the best you
could come up with is to describe the facts
I cited as "Leftist Rubbish," and then to
cite Andrew Bolt - a truly - "Unbiased person."
you think?
I guess that says it all.
No more needs to be said really on that.

As for your reference to feminism and
how it probably denied me meaning in life?
Nah. On the contrary.
Don't you know that today's woman makes her
own choices about what gives her life meaning.
However, having said that - most women I know
appreciate the achievements of feminism over
the decades - which today does give us the
ability to make choices that give meaning to
our lives.

If you're unfamiliar with what feminism has acieved
in this country - I can strongly recommend the
book, "Getting Equal," by Marilyn Lake.
You just may learn something.

I take your referring to me as "sweetie," as an
attempt at a "whimsical linguistic game."

Good try.

Foxy,

That's "not" Shadow Minister....

At least he's funny! Appeals to my sense of humour.

I suppose that imitation is the most sincere flattery. Pity the troll didn't have the IQ to cover up that he is really Campbelli.

I hope that GY kicks his butt off this site.

Dear Poirot,

Shadow Minister must have given the use of his moniker
to a family member or a friend. It definitely is not
his style of posting - still I too see the funny side
of it at his attempts to provoke people into reacting.
Using terms life "feminazis," throwing Alan Jones, Andrew
Bolt, et cetera - into the mix - is an attempt at showing
us his "Conservative Authenticity." (smile).

Still, as a male friend pointed out
recently about a colleague, "If he's going to
behave like a dick, he should wear a condom on his head
so he looks like one!"

Sorry, got to run, not because of any toilet problems,
in this case, but hubbie's under the shower, and it's
my turn to make breakfast this morning. We take it
in turns - otherwise it gets a bit boring.

Talk to you soon.

It appears Campbelli and his comments have been dumped.

It does appear that Graham has deleted the impersenator's
posts. What a relief!

Dear Shadow Minister,

My sincere apologies to you for falsely
assuming that you were in on this impersenator's
act. I thought that something was wrong - because
your style is of a much higher calibre - but I
fell for it hook, line, and sinker, because I could
not understand how someone could use your moniker
without your permission. I should have known
better. My apologies.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Glad to see that you haven't lost your ooomph
amongst your usual banter.

Welcome back old fella!

Dear Shadow Minster,

So you think Mr Abbott is the best PM
that Australia has ever had?

Really?

That currently puts you in a minority with many
Australian voters. Here's a link from last
year but still relevant today - because things
have gotten worse:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/08/10-ways-to-survive-abbott

Foxy,

That's not Shadow Minister either (check poster's history before replying)

I think that the phantom Shadow Minister (with 2 spaces) is just as big a mincing whack job as Campbelli.

Dear Poirot,

You're right.

I checked and there appears to be two Shadow Ministers
listed in the "User" index.

How come Graham has allowed two people with the same moniker?

Very confusing.

Kudos to anyone who can solve this recent
conundrum

It would appear that GY is asleep at the wheel. Normally he gives trolls like Campbelli the flick

SM,

I think you know that Campbelli "was" given the flick.

He's come back - as has fake SM.

Some trolls are more determined than others.

(I hope you guys are doing your bit to alert Graham and not just relying on him to be psychic)

We can only live in hope.

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his crotch.

Responding to trolls on the internet
is not very wise at the best of times
because they will probably turn out to be
pubescent teens possessing infinite
amounts of free time.

The only thing is to alert Graham to deal
with them.

Yes Poirot, it was I who complained today to Graham about SM Two not being fair on SM One. and Graham acted straight away.

Complaint:
Please check that there are 2 people posting under the nic Shadow Minister,
please delete the new one, as it unfair on the "true" SM.

and the reply
Thanks Paul,

Has been dealt with, for now.

But the troll will be back on past form.

Graham

I enjoy a bit of a stouch with old Shadow, he never wins but puts up a good fight anyway.

Dear Paul,

Thanks for that.

I think we all enjoy a robust discussion with
Shadow Minister. Especially since he does not
usually stoop to personal insults.

Still, one good thing has come out of all of
this is that we'll now be on our guard against
trolls.

Who's gone?

Obviously you keep coming back.
Whoever you are.
Until Graham zonks you again, that is.

As for the thousand camel fleas?

Not very original.

I prefer this one: -

May a thousand camel fleas infest your pubic
hair and your hands be two short to scratch them.

Oh Foxy, I am surprised at you being so cruel.

Now all I have to do is work out if it the troll, or the fleas you are being most unkind to.

Interesting. Our species has devoted its self to the numbers of where males and females need each other more than ever and there’s no right and wrong with how we interact with each. For men, they need to be at the head of the family, and when that breaks down, you’re still a man with…. as we all started out with in the messages, way back in a time forgotten but always by your sides. Trusted times have changed a lot since the old days, where women would remember their place and the new age guy still does mix as well as what’s brought you together in the first place. Men feel very rip off in many ways, and it’s alright to feel sadness when relationships don’t work out. Some feel and we all watch the glimmer of, what both male and female we see in and on what we watch as the norm, as in what you’re programed to think.
We have big business, Hollyword, what you should wear, and how you should act, and so on…..it’s all bull and you should know it. There’s nothing wrong with being a REAL HUMAN BEING…and don’t let the world do the thinking for you. Religion states, if you find love, don’t let it go and what can I say to that.

Now, the unfairness of child support is a contradiction in its self, meaning, who has more than the other? You both started a family, so end it as so…..50/50…but the courts are what they are… (Unevolved with time working against them, and the laws needs to be reviewed most urgently), with more fairness is needed. This? (Iam getting close to the word limit) I believe, if you start something, you both finish it. Your all been split apart for no reason at all and excepting society from where it acts with-out any thinking at all,….that’s fuels the blood sucking lawyers just waiting to feed.

Anyhow, I don’t always agree with what I see, and I am sure you don’t either.


Tally

Dear Hasbeen,

It looks like Graham's removed the false
Shadow Minister's post yet again.

The imposter is really becoming a pest.

And creating a very successful diversion.

Tally writes > "Interesting. Our species has devoted its self to the numbers of where males and females... blah, blah, blah.... blah, blah, blah... "

What the heck does that have to do with anything anybody has discussed on this thread? That comment was long enough to qualify as a whole new topic; what a wasted opportunity.

So, you think you call people paedophiles and think you can get away with. Not too bright are you:) I have 4 shiny CD,s with all of your top hits....I do like to catch crabs, spiders crabs, but what I've found, you must use the right bait. Abbott is the best MP by far and he joins a long list of great PM,s. Just stick to the programs and all will be well.

Yes, there seems to be trolls all over the Internet and you just don't know who's watching:)

Tally

Foxy,,,,I don't think your getting the hint. Camels are very clean animals and the infestations of fleas are regulated by their owners.

But this is going way off topic and I don't need to remind you with, your great stile.

All the best



Tally

ConservativeHippie..your quite right again. Those from the left also understand the collective measures of the right.

I've said in the past ( the world as one ) but some way of missed it.

Tally

I see the gender confused imitation SM is back again. I would guess that Tally is a third creepy personality (who's counting)

Reported you again. Soon you are going to run out of new email accounts

Dear Tally,

I wasn't the one who introduced the quote
about camels into this discussion.
I merely improved on it.

Besides camels aren't all that clean, they,
like all animals, spit and fart very agressively.
But despite that, they are very loyal,
especially to their owners - just like dogs.

Yes, I have noticed that the impersonator is
back once again.

You've got to give it to him for perseverance.
It must be annoying for poor Shadow Minister.

Perhaps with time the novelty will wear off.
Perhaps not.
I didn't realise that hacking was that easy.

Foxy,

It's not a hack - it's a separate account...which is why it's so easy to find out which SM is posting.

Foxy,

And even when each new account is wiped, it's reinstated - easy to check though which one has posted.

Dear Poirot,

If the account is wiped - how can it be re-instated
without Graham's permission?

Yes, it is easy to check - which is what I've been doing
thus far. But how can two Shadow Minister's keep
on appearing?

I simply don't understand.

Foxy,

The account "is" wiped.

Each account is a new account - not an old one reinstated.

You don't need Graham's permission to register an account.

Just how "Shadow Minister" is being repeatedly replicated without disallowance is the question.

Foxy,

My original description of the account being "reinstated" was not a good choice. As I've pointed out, each account is a new one.

(I was looking at it from the troll's point of view)

Cheers

Dear Poirot,

How this troll is managing to get in using the name
Shadow Minister over and over again - is the question.

In any case I've had enough of this game playing.
For me this discussion has now run it's course
and Thanks to all who've taken the time to contribute
to this topic.

I look forward to seeing you all in other discussions.

BTW: I'm a grandmother again, as of yesterday.
A baby girl - And I'm now off to the hospital
to see her. So excited!

Congratulations, Foxy!

I don't think I'm going to be a granny anytime soon - although daughter and son-in-law are the proud parents of a bunny, a blind kitty and two cheeky cockatiels...so that's something when I visit.

Son of Poirot is only 13 - so all that is down the track for him.

I'm a goin' shopping today, so it'll be nice to have a break from "spot-the-troll".

The way the troll is registering new names each time is by creating a new e mail address, then registering a new name of shadow minister each time with a additional space imbetween. OLO's software gets rid of spaces so you can't see it on the thread, but you can see it in the email notifications as shadow and Minister get further apart.

It is a bit like the game Whack a mole, each time he pops his head up, GY deletes the account and blocks his mail account. It would be better if he could block his IP address.

However, as it is patently obvious that he is different, as aside from the abuse, I passed year 3 grammar and spelling.

Campbelli,

I hope that you signing on again means that you are going to abandon your trolling and participate in meaningful way.

PS, there are still ways to frigg your name, but it is easier to just report you.

Foxy,

Congrats on the new grandchild.

As my daughter is 18 I am not in a hurry, but I do understand your excitement.

PS.

It looks like the mole got whacked again, and I certainly didn't complain.

Still going, I see the all of your point,and just because some might not agree with what I say, that's just fine, I at times don't expect some-or most people too or you can just simply don't reply to what I write. The world today has many changelings, and while your wasting good time on being trolls yourselves, you might want to move on or grow up. While real people are trying very hard to meet the worlds stages of solving problems, there are always that small few, that cant help themselves. If you don't like me, you don't have be ugly about it, however if you feel the need, go right ahead, I wont take it personal.

I hope the G20 goes well with the world's issues that's been occupying all leaders minds over and all I might add, well be watching intently to the out-comes.



Tally

Good on you Foxy.

Hope it wasn't too exhausting for you, or the mum.

Dear Poirot, Shadow Minister, Hasbeen,

Thank You all for your well-wishes regarding my
beautiful grand-daughter. And she really is a
beauty. With a mane of hair (like her gran)
and the same killer cheek-bones and almond-shaped
eyes, and will be a very tall girl.
Both mother and daughter are doing
very well. I am so proud - and could simply burst.
Wait until you have your first grand-child (this is my
fourth) - you'll be over the moon, just like me.
Especially, because both the baby and the mother are
so healthy.

I too have recently become a grandfather, for the first time, and I'm still lost in the wonder of it, and I know I always will be.
Unfortunately circumstances beyond anyone's control dictate that I won't get to see him grow up nor meet any others that may be born, they are currently in the planning stage, lol, but I'm reconciled to that, just being there for the birth and meeting him has been a blessing beyond measure.
I've recorded messages for him to see later in life, telling him of the joy he brought me and of my love for him, and I've set up a trust fund that will hopefully ease all their passages in life, it ain't big but it will be there for them to use for education costs etc, my kids are all doing well enough that I'm comfortable leaving what little I have for the next generation.
He carries my love, my genes, my name, and my heritage, and I am well pleased with that, no man could ask for more.

Dear Bruce,

Congratulations!

May your days continue to be touched by all the things
that fill your heart with such happiness!

Thanks Foxy.
I truly believe my life has been blessed, despite everything, joy and beauty are where you find them if you have but eyes to see, and I have always had those!
I ain't sitting around being miserable either, I'll be heading off shortly on an endless trip I've always dreampt of, if ya gotsta go then better to go having fun than feeling sorry for yourself, hey?
Besides, happy young families don't need grumpy old fading hippies cluttering up their lives with their woes, this will be my final gift to my children, to let them only mourn when they must and not before.
On two wheels, the wind in my face, insects in my teeth, the stars my roof and the horizon my goal, I can't think of a better way to spend the last of my time here, free,...FREEEE,...FREE AT LAST!!

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming..."WOW, what a ride"!
Hunter.S.Thompson

Foxy, congratulations on the new human in your family. Hope that Mum, Bubb & all are doing well.

Have been away doing my little bit for Queen & Country again - and nowhere near a computer for weeks, so it was with great joy that I heard today the news of Pauline Hanson reviving One Nation.

I can hope she takes better care of her 6 O'clock and once Herr Fuhrer has had his half term in office we may see some sense return to the LNP as an entity.

Best wishes to you all on OLO.

Albie Manton in Vic Park WA.

Dear Bruce,

You - A motor-bike riding hippie?

Wow!

I'm impressed.

And I'm happy that you're going to go for it.

Who wants to go quietly into the night - so
to speak.

Not me either. Although I haven't made any plans
as yet - but hopefully I'll be able to if my health
holds out.

Dear Albie,

Thanks for your wishes.

Good to have you posting again - so welcome back!

Foxy, congrats on becoming a granny, and Bruce welcome to the ranks of us old farts (meant in the nicest way)! Your not officially a dinky die OF until reaching the lofty heights of grandparism. I'm up for my second next Feb.
My partner "T" has 8 actual mokopunas (grandchildren), the oldest a 6'6" giant, weights in at about 115kg and plays front row forward, literally, "T" fits under his armpit. She is also "gran" to dozens of others in her extended family.
I find nothing funnier than watching this little 5 foot nothing, 60kg woman, giving a real bollocking to a huge "moko" from the extended family, dressed in leathers, motorbike near by, for being in trouble, its all "yes nan, no nan, I'll keep out of trouble nan, from now on, sorry nan!"...and so you better or you'll have me to deal with!" Strange sight indeed. For the girls it always Nanny "T" or for the older ones up to about age 40, its aunty. Its all about respect for elders

Dear Paul,

Thank You.

And All the Best to you and yours for February.
Your partner sounds like a wonderful Nan and her
grandchildren are so lucky to have her.

Thanks Foxy, and Paul.
My Nan was like that, quietly spoken and never once raised her hand to anyone, but she had...THE LOOK!
Our parents could give us hidings, and did, and I always laughed in their faces, but that LOOK, we dreaded that more than anything, it could melt steel at half a mile!
She was an old Station girl, tough as nails with a heart of gold and we grew up wrapped in her love, but woe betide any of us who stepped out of line, we got LOOKed at!
I used to try it with my own sproggs but all I ever got was giggles and.."Are you all right Dad, you look a bit weird"

Dear Bruce,

I know what you mean about THE LOOK.
We had a Scottish Headmistress at the
All Girls' High School I attended.
And she had THE LOOK. When anyone of us
got called down to her office - she'd
make us wait outside - and when ushered
into her office - I'd confess before she
even asked - to everything I thought I'd
done wrong.