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The Forum > General Discussion > Bloody Monsters

Bloody Monsters

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David. f,

I think you underestimate the innate savagery of Homo Sapiens - especially its penchant for slaughtering its own kind.

Because the human species is also capable of civilised interaction and enlightened philosophical ethos, it tends to shock one when confronted with its penchant for murder and mayhem on grand scales.

I know Koestler tended to view the whole of humanity as displaying a kind of insanity, being controlled by various aspects of its complex brain structure... the cerebral neocortex and the mammalian brain vying with each other for control a various intervals....akin to a rider on a horse without reins to connect them.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 3 November 2014 9:11:29 AM
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Dear Josephus,

How do you know that those monsters 'in their mind believed in a better world?' Scientists, doubters and others who gained new insights changed the world. In my opinion the world would be better off if Caesar, Alexander and Napoleon had not been able to gain any power.

Dear Poirot,

Innate savagery? Most contacts of humans with other humans are peaceful. Most people on their own do not go out and commit acts of barbarism. The Spartans who were a warrior people refused to accompany Alexander on his wars of conquest. They were not interested in foreign adventures but primarily in defending Sparta. Most Romans were not militaristic. Those who fought with Caesar were a professional warrior class. Most soldiers who followed Napoleon were conscripts who had little option but to go with him.

There is a tradition of those who have opposed militarism. There are no days devoted to remembering that legacy. Military training attempts to break down the resistance of most humans to killing other humans. According to the US Infantry Journal only about 20% of soldiers in regular army units fire their weapons in combat. Elite units such as the marines or the SS may increase that percentage to 80.

It is estimated that law enforcement would be impossible if more than 3% of people were willing to break the laws.

Koestler was a brilliant but difficult person with enthusiasms for crackpot theories. After spending time in a kibbutz he was rejected when he applied for membership. He was a communist until he became disillusioned with Stalin. He was an entertaining and amusing writer, but I wouldn't take his theories on the structure of the brain seriously.
Posted by david f, Monday, 3 November 2014 10:28:56 AM
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david. f,

"Innate savagery? Most contacts of humans with other humans are peaceful...."

That may be so, however, human history is punctuated with the most heinous and savage barbarism, not only of fellow humans, but also of other species and the environment.

How do you explain that if we're such a "peaceful" species?

Perhaps we're a biological error?
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 3 November 2014 10:32:53 AM
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Poirot,

"....akin to a rider on a horse without reins to connect them."

Just a minor point, but not a good analogy, as any horse man or woman, worth their salt, would tell you, especially those who have been army trained and rode over the jumps without reins.
It was a common thing on stations for the 'horse boy' to mount bareback sans reins and then show off his expertise by rounding up the other horses and bringing them in; done it myself and come a few humiliating croppers into the bargain!!
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 3 November 2014 10:35:57 AM
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Is Mise,

Well it's a perfectly good analogy for the majority of humans who get on a horse and ride it....that's what reins are for.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 3 November 2014 10:40:03 AM
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Dear Poirot,

As far as destruction of the environment we do it because we can do it. The greatest destruction of the environment was by the anaerobic bacteria. Their metabolic processes resulted in the excretion of free oxygen as a waste product. It was toxic to them so they destroyed much of their habitat. They still exist in such manifestations as the gangrene bacteria. However, they made life possible for the life forms which take in oxygen. The destruction of the environment by humans is generally no more purposeful than the destruction by the anaerobic bacteria.

Our species is not unique in producing the extinction of other species. However, we are unique in concerning ourselves with the extinction of other species.

Humans do have impulses to disorder and bad behaviour. Society has developed mechanisms to express that side of us. One mechanism is the release of carnival each year where humans are permitted to do things which would not be allowed in the rest of the year. War and occasional acts of barbarism are the safety valve so that we can be peaceful most of the time.

We need to limit our population. Unfortunately that's difficult to do. The chief cause of conflict appears to be too many people competing for too few resources.
Posted by david f, Monday, 3 November 2014 12:31:39 PM
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