There's been quite a stir about Professor Barry Spurr's
suspension by Sydney University over his offensive emails.
The following link explains:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/17/professor-barry-spurr-suspended-by-sydney-university-over-offensive-emails

Your thoughts please.

Foxy, with comments like that, and since he been flicked from the uni, the good professor could find a new home right here on the forum, he would fit in real well with some of our resident recasts. He's there kinda guy!

The article referred to in Foxy's post contains: “Racist, sexist or offensive language is not tolerated at the University of Sydney.”

Professor Spurr's comments in emails were not made at the University of Sydney so could not legitimately be a cause for suspension regardless of the contents of those statements as long as he was not offering those opinions in his professorial capacity. Offensive language should not be penalised in any way. If we penalise offensive language we do not have free speech. Whether a statement is offensive or not is a subjective matter, and statements one individual finds innocuous may be deemed offensive by another individual.

It is certainly a most interesting situation.

On the one hand, we have the defence of free speech - they are (private) views, communicated (privately) to friends and colleagues. To some folk, sure, they may be offensive, but you shouldn't be reading them anyway.

On the other, we have been provided with a window into the character of someone in a position to influence students at his university, and more broadly, influence educational policy for all students.

I suspect that New Matilda will have difficulty showing that the public interest of the latter trumps the universal freedoms of the former. Which will be a shame, because I am personally grateful to them for exposing these character traits. This knowledge will enable me to make a more informed decision, should I ever need to, about his role in the education of Australian youth.

The university is probably on less shaky ground in dismissing him, since the vehicle for the emails was their property, and the rules for its use are pretty clear.

[But apart from that. This is "Australia's first Professor of Poetry and Poetics" that we are talking about here. What standard of social awareness is considered a prerequisite for the person holding such a - presumably lucrative - post? Or is being an ageing white-bread Catholic propagandist considered sufficient?]

Spurr's comments were made using a University of Sydney e-mail account and thereby breached the University policy on use of Information and Communications Technology.

we allow woman (Emily's listers) who hold repulsive views to work at the highest levels and quite often in tax funded ABC jobs. Double standards as usual.

Dear Pericles,

I saw nothing in the article to indicate that Spurr's comments were made on a university computer. They may have been made on his own computer.

When I lived in Connecticut I knew a man who made many racist comments. I found the comments offensive. I knew another man who was a colleague of the man in question as they both worked in a department of the Connecticut government devoted to civil rights. The colleague told me that the man in question was vigorous in the defense of the civil rights of people belonging to the same groups he made racist remarks about. His attitudes as shown by his remarks did not prevent him from doing his job. We should make a distinction between speech and action. Racist and sexist comments are unpleasant, but a person may make such comments and have such attitudes while not acting in a racist or sexist way. We should be called to account for what we do not for what we say.

I was relying upon other reports for this information david f.

>>Dear Pericles, I saw nothing in the article to indicate that Spurr's comments were made on a university computer.<<

"New Matilda has also been ordered to keep in safe custody all copies of the emails that came from the computer records or database of Sydney University".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-23/suspended-professor-is-collateral-damage-lawyers-say/5836430

But on the subject of free speech, I agree that generally speaking, the personal views of an individual are none of our business.

Dear David F.,

The following link may help clarify things for you:

http://newmatilda.com/2014/10/19/transcripts-partial-works-professor-barry-spurr-poet-racist-misogynist

Michael Brull has written an excellent article in which
he states:

"I agree that Professor Spurr should not be fired for
his prvately expressed opinions. I don't even think
he should have been fired from his post if he
had expressed those views publicly. I don't think he
should have been suspended from his job."

Yet as Brull points out this was a decision made by Sydney
University, the Professor's emails were sent
on a University computer.
The emails were sent over a two year period from September
2012 to June 2014 to university friends and
colleagues. Sydney University have a code of
conduct that all academic staff are expected to abide by.
Professor Spurr is not excempt from this.

Another link on the subject:

http://newmatilda.com/2014/10/28/murdochs-do-we-say-not-we-do-school-news-journalism

Dear Foxy,

I read the references and think from reading them that Professor Spurr is unfit to be involved in determining a national curriculum for Australia.

I also think a professor should only be suspended or sacked if he has failed in his professorial obligations or unable to fulfill them. There has been no evidence presented regarding Professor Spurr to establish that.

I agree with him in one area. I find it objectionable when a person who is not a personal friend takes the liberty of calling me by other than my last name.

Dear David F.,

As Pericles pointed out earlier - this is quite a
complex issue. Thank You for your comments and it
will be interesting to see what others have to say
on this issue. I'm interested in looking at this
from various perspectives. Hopefully I shall see
those on this discussion.

Well said David F, at last something we can agree on.

My lady has always been something of a bleeding heart. This is why, as a councillor, she took a job trying to help the long term unemployed, some of whom become homeless, or live in their cars.

She now admits that many of these people live this way by choice, something she would not have believed a few years ago. In fact she has even been heard to criticise some of her clients on occasions, an impossibility prior to dealing with so many of them.

This in no way prevents her trotting off each morning to try to help any of them that will let her, back onto their feet.

Dear David F.,

I have been re-reading the links that I
cited earlier including the partial
emails that Prof. Spurr has sent to his
colleagues and friends at the university.
The name callings and tone he uses when
describing women and others I find extremely
disturbing. I don't agree with the take that
its simply a "whimsical linguistic game." And
it raises the question as to what kind of an
influence he would have on his students.
Surely any teacher has to held accountable for
his language - even when done in private and a
university does have to set certain standards
of conduct and what it expects from its staff?

After Nova Peris and Barry Spurr, should we all give up on email in the name of privacy?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/29/should-we-all-give-up-on-email-in-the-name-of-privacy
Wow, Senator Peris leaves Barry Spurr in the shade and unlike Spurr she was in government and she really is expressing heartfelt,racially biased sentiments in her emails and is explicit about using government funding to pursue a racist agenda.
Senator Nova Peris sought taxpayers’ money to help her to carry out a ‘freaky’ extra-marital sexual tryst with Olympic medallist Ato Boldon
http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/senator-nova-peris-sought-taxpayers-money-to-help-her-to-carry-out-a-freaky-extramarital-sexual-tryst-with-olympic-medallist-ato-boldon/story-fnk0b1zt-1227105261200
If you have information useful to Communists like the people writing for New Matilda they have the contacts in the intelligence services and telecommunications companies to get your account details, don't believe a word of this "hacking" business.
The Spurr affair, the Frances Abbott case and the Nova Peris story are just an indication of the level of corruption and the low standards of journalism today, the editors of New Matilda and the NT News are no better than Andy Coulson and Rupert Murdoch and should be hauled over the coals just as vigourously.

There is only a certain amount of 'Progressive' politically correct indignation one can fit into a day.

I wonder though how Foxy has managed to avoid noticing the remarks being attributed to a certain Australian Senator? Remember the strife when PM Julia Whatsherbloodyname, the 'Real' Julia, announced Nova Peris Shinbone as a candidate for election?

<Senator Nova Peris sought taxpayers’ money to help her to carry out an extra-marital sexual tryst with Olympic medallist Ato Boldon in 2010, an NT News investigation has revealed.
Ms Peris, who was working as a communication officer with the Australian Institute of Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander Studies at the time and as ambassador for Athletics Australia, sought funds from Athletics Australia and other sources to pay for Mr Boldon’s trip to Australia from Los Angeles to take part in a 10 day official “Jump Start to London” program for young athletes.
She also used that trip to carry out a “just like a Tim-tam... black on black” affair with Mr Boldon. She was married to Daniel Batman at the time.>

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/senator-nova-peris-sought-taxpayers-money-to-help-her-to-carry-out-a-freaky-extramarital-sexual-tryst-with-olympic-medallist-ato-boldon/story-fnjwnhzf-1227105313394

otb

again the Captain showing very poor judgement with her pick. Young and naive!

Gentlemen,

You're really grabbing at straws here by giving
us examples of how certain politicians have
behaved in their personal lives.

History is full of these accounts.

What matters is as David F.,
as pointed out is their behaviour in their jobs.
And is that behaviour approprate. Sydney
University thought not.

Prof. Barry Spurr's behaviour came under scrutiny
because he was based at the University of Sydney
and served as a consultant on the Abbott Government's
review of the National School Curriculum.

His emails were sent to friends and colleagues at the
University of Sydney from the University's computer over
a two year period from September 2012 to June 2014.
He ended up losing his job at the University as a result
of his breaking the University's code of conduct to which
he signed up on being hired by the University. The University
found he had broken the code of conduct.

It's a different scenario from the ones you're presenting
regarding Ms Peris.

BTW - Jayb, could you please provide us with evidence that New
Matilda is a "Communist" site. I was not aware of that.

And - otb, could you please be more specific and tell us
who you think are the "Progressives," in this discussion?
And why?

I'm sure others would also be interested to share
your information.

we know Foxy one treats the public with contempt and gets away with it while another breaks the letter of the law.

Spurr was also one of many on the review of the curriculum. Just suites the leftist ideology to demonise and kick him out of the feminsist dominated ideology institutions. Numerous people would have offensive emails on their computers. Having morally bereft people call all wives prostitutes or showing Abbott having sex with animals seems to win you approval with the regressives. You again are blinded Foxy but that is nothing new.

The Grrls of the Leftist EMILY's List

I sure hope that the exasperated Aussie taxpayer will not be stumping up for any of these matey knees-ups. (Just 2 of a number shown)

NT EMILY's List 18th Birthday drinks
11 Nov 2014 6:30pm
Office of Senator Nova Peris
38 B Mitchell Street, Darwin NT 0801
Senator Nova Peris is hosting an 18th birthday party for EMILY's List. Come along to celebrate 18 years of Supporting Progressive Women.

An evening with the Hon Julia Gillard
05 Nov 2014 5:00pm
CSA Conference Room
Level 6, 445 Hay Street (near Victoria Avenue), Perth WA 6000
Join us and the Hon Julia Gillard to celebrate the 18th birthday of EMILY's List Australia.

Foxy, I'm not JayB, I don't know where that idea came from.
I didn't say that New Matilda was a communist site, I called the contributors communists, which many of them are.
Once again we run into "context denial" from the so called progressives.
Barry Spurr has never been outspoken on race, he's never run an election campaign on the basis of his race , Nova Peris has always been outspoken on issues of race in fact she's a race hustler like Adam Goodes or Jacquie Lambie, now we find out she has negative views of "Australians" as well as other Aboriginals and was suggesting to her lover that they corruptly procure state funds through the vehicle of a racially based outreach program.
Spurr is just an old fool who is innocent of any actual wrongdoing, Peris appears to have been heading down the road to corruption in office, there's a difference but the common thread is "leaked" emails.
The other major difference is that even if he wanted to Spurr could not capitalise his "racist" views or cash in on the fact that he's a White man whereas Nova Peris clearly thought that she could use her Aboriginality (and the fact that she's mixed race) for her own personal gain. She talks about how there has to be some "salt in the mix" for Australians to stump up the cash for black causes, which is interesting in light of Bolt vs Eatock because clearly some Aboriginals think that being mixed race and claiming Aboriginality at the same time is a path to prestige and financial gain.

Dear Jay,

My apologies - but you can't blame me really for
getting you mixed up with Jayb, you both seem
identical from your posts. You know similar to the
old adage, that all "commies," "progressives," "Emily
Listers," are alike (smile).

As for comparing Ms Peris and Barry Spurr?
Chalk and Cheese.

And I suggest you go back
and read the links I gave concerning some of Mr Spurr's
emails and see the words he uses and their tone.
And then try to tell me the man is not a racist and
should still have a job teaching at a University.

As the links point out - Prof. Spurr is a man who can
have a major influence in pushing the National
Curriculum for school children away from Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander Literature and towards
British writers. He's also a man who when discussing in
a Parliamentary Reception said Tony Abbott should
have put down and said, "No More Abos."

You may think that's not being a racist. I don't
agree with you.

As for New Matilda having "communists" contributing to
their publication?
So f#@$ing what?

I wouldn't
presume to describe - some of -
The Australian's, Daily Telegraph's, or Herald Sun's
contributors as Right-Wing, Goose-Stepping Facists.
Although their news appears to be limited.

Foxy, context is everything.
There's another big conflict between progressives and reality, there's no such thing as Indigenous literature,any literature produced by indigenous people is part of English literature because they were not literate before colonisation.
More to the point why should a tiny subset of English literature, those works written by mixed race people of partial Indigenous ancestry be given any space in a national curriculum at all?
Spurr is described as a conservative, conservatives are just as invested in multiculturalism and White guilt as progressives, that would be why he's never been seen to publicly speak on race or take any action which indicated he was a "racist".
As I said before, Barry Spurr could never capitalise on his "racism", he's part of the liberal, multicultural right so it's impossible for him to skew his consultations without being immediately jumped upon by the communists in academia and their associates who write for New Matilda.
Barry Spurr is as invested in political correctness as any other humanities professor so the allegations against him are nonsense, if you want to hear what a real "right winger" sounds like listen to this podcast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww4h0dAuF1w
You understand that the only fora where people like Frank Salter can promote their views in public are held in places like Azerbaijan,Malaysia and Iran?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX_5J76h7N8

'As for comparing Ms Peris and Barry Spurr? Chalk and Cheese.'

Yep one is a white male held to account, another a black woman displaying despicable behaviour behind the cloak of feminism and being an aboriginal. No wonder Foxy supports the latter.

Dear Jay,

There certainly is such a thing as Indigenous Literature.
And the study of it is extremely important for a variety
of reasons ranging from cultural and intellectual
enrichment, to Australian heritage, to language, to
academic discipline, to filling in gaps in available
knowledge, to knowledge for its own sake, to shedding new
light on what humnanity has since forgotten, and so on.

As for the rest of your post - you seem to be greatly
influenced by the Andrew Bolt case - where Mr Bolt got things
so wrong. (Nothing new there). He got his facts wrong - you
should do a bit more research on that particular case before
you take on his assumptions and try to present them as
facts in this discussion if you want to be taken
seriously.

As for your persistent references to New Matilda and
attempts to link it with communism. Absurd!
Julian Burnside QC, pointed out a few years back - that -
"it is a strange paradox that while we live in a torrent
of information, there is such a limited range of
available views."

"Media ownership in Australia is notoriously narrow.
Mainstream media offers precious little diversity and
such diversity as there is runs along predictable lines..."

That's why we need media outlets such as New Matilda,
and the ABC to name just two, to give us the diversity of
views that is sorely lacking in the mainstream media or the
jungle of the internet.

I wonder if the emails would of been considered private if Mr Abbott had of called Cathy Freeman very dumb. You progressives are disgusting in your selectivity.

A child minor says one word at a football game and she is hauled out for public humiliation and censure. Regardless of her not understanding nor using a word 'racially' as was accused of doing. 'Ape' is commonly used by football supporters everywhere to describe opposing players.

Yet when a whistleblower who from news reports is serving the public interest by flagging misuse of public funds and conversion to private use, the same political 'Progressives' and the previously horrified, 'gutted' (a word very much in favour at the time), horrendously insulted and disgusted commentariat are directing all of their venom towards the person/s who released the information!

Incredible, amazing, that a university lecturer's private satire renders him unsuitable to do his job but an Australian Senator, the controversial 'Captain's Pick' of a highly controversial PM is not being required to explain herself, or at minimum deny all of the allegations in the Parliament.

otb,

If you're referring to the Goodes case - you
need to state the full facts and not just
"cherry-pick." You can't have it both ways
accusing others of things that you are doing and
then feigning righteous indigation. No one is
buying it.

As for Senator Peris. She has
denied the charges (something Prof. Spurr did not
do) and the case against her has yet to be proven.
As far as I am aware it's still a matter of
innocent until proven guilty in this country. But
who knows what it will be in the future with the
current mob in power and all of their rules and
regulations that they are attempting to pass.

So much for freedom of speech.

Where has Senator Peris addressed and actually denied the content of the emails alleged to have been originated by her? There also appears to be some disagreement about NT News contact with Ms Peris before publication. This is what the NT News has to say,

<Senator Nova Peris has failed to address key questions surrounding her involvement in seeking taxpayers’ money to bring former Olympian Ato Boldon to Australia to carry out an extramarital affair.

In a statement to the Senate on Thursday, Ms Peris claimed email revelations in the NT News this week were part of a family and estate dispute and refrained from explaining all of the sources outside of Athletics Australia that she sought money from to bring Mr Boldon to Australia.

Emails previously published show that amount could be up to $22,000, in part funded by the “indigenous grants mob” and other taxpayer-funded groups.

Ms Peris was employed at the time as a communication officer with the Australian Institute of Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander Studies and operated as an ambassador with Athletics Australia.
..
The NT News stands by its original story, which deals with a matter of public importance, namely the use of taxpayer funds.

The emails also revealed Ms Peris’ thoughts about race issues.

In the NT News’ original questions to Ms Peris, it was asked whether she stood by her comment in emails to Mr Boldon that “white people hate black people in this country”.

She failed to address this question with the NT News or in Parliament yesterday.>

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/senator-nova-peris-responds-to-allegations-in-senate-speech/story-fnk0b1zt-1227107734510

According to news reports Senator Peris has
denied having done anything wrong. Let us wait
and see how this develops as I'm sure that it will,
before making our own assumptions on the matter.
We need to try to steer this discussion away from
extreme points of view and our own biases - towards
common ground as another poster on this forum has
pointed out on another thread. "That is where
solutions will eventually be found one way or another."

Assumptions? Extreme? Just who is making any?

She either sent the emails or she did not.

The NT News either sought her comments prior to publication or it did not.

The allegations on both sides are not about distant or trivial events that could be easily forgotten.

Love your style, otb,

You yodel from the rooftops when a loudmouthed teen female gets pinged for a spot of disgusting name-calling at the footy...and yet you can't wait to get your boot into a female if it tickles your partisan fancy.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/31/malcolm-turnbull-attacks-publication-salacious-material-nova-peris-controversy?CMP=twt_gu

"Malcolm Turnbull says the publication of personal emails apparently sent between the Labor senator Nova Peris and the Trinidadian athlete Ato Boldon went too far, labelling the coverage “salacious”.

“I always err on the side of press freedom, but I have to say it’s pretty distasteful collection of correspondence,” the communications minister told the ABC on Friday. “Journalists and editors have to exercise a degree of discretion."

"Peris was not a senator at the time and has denied any wrongdoing. She said she was separated from her husband, and the emails were used as part of an extortion attempt.

The emails also contained outline intimate details of what was said to be the personal relationship between Peris and Boldon. Boldon has called the NT News report a “gross fabrication” and threatened to sue.

“The release and publication of these emails is an attempt to extract money and embarrass me and my family. With legal options now exhausted, this other party has turned to the media,” Peris said.

She accused the NT News of being “well aware these emails were part of a long running family dispute ahead of its publication”."

Foxy has developed an echo again.

Shucks it is only Poirot with an invitation to play Poirot's parlour game of 'Tit-for-Tat', where Poirot continually introduces irrelevancies and the game goes on for pages.

One of your playmates, perhaps the very, very patient Shadow Minister might be available for you to indulge your Abbottophobia. Because that is always what it turns upon for you. Although how you will be able to make this into Abbott's fault, goodness knows. LOL

Sorry, otb....I'm gonna have to report you to runner for plagiarising his !whizz-bang! term "Abbottophobia".

Lol!

I must congratulate the the progressives for now turning someone who displayed despicable racism and contempt for her marriage as the victim. Only a progressive could do that. Amazing! Well with moral relativism why should we be surprised. Now its all about the intention of the leaks not the hard fact. Of course with Professor Spurr it was all about the content and nothing to do with sleazy regressive politics.

otb,

Why do you do it?

When presented with evidence and facts by Poirot
or anyone else for that matter instead of
admitting you got it wrong - you again continue
with the same old tactics of extreme views and
attacks. How can anyone take you seriously.

As I cited earlier - "when you rely on surface
appearances and false stereotypes rather
than evidence, facts, or any in-depth knowledge
your ability to assess and understand people
accurately is compromised.

Foxy,

Cobblers! Here is an expert making the very point that others have been trying to convince you of here, but obviously it doesn't suit your partisan politics The NT News is supported too,

<JONATHON HOLMES: There is a pretty strong public interest justification for what they've done, just as there was for what New Matilda did in publishing the private emails of Professor Barry Spurr.

I don't think it would be logical frankly to say one is justified and the other isn't, because there is a strong public interest case in both of those.

LINDY KERIN: So the NT News hasn't done anything wrong here or News Corporation hasn't done anything wrong?

JONATHON HOLMES: Look, of course, you can argue, that they published too much for the purpose or that they shouldn't have published the email about Cathy Freeman or they didn't' need to put in all the salacious details, but as I say, I thought it was a lay down public interest case for the publication of the Barry Spurr emails and I don't think I could logically say well that one's okay but the Northern Territory isn't.

LINDY KERIN: And Jonathon Holmes says Nova Peris' claims that the emails are part of a family dispute are irrelevant.

JONATHON HOLMES: Very often there is ulterior motives on the part of the whistleblower or the person leaking or whatever. Sometimes that's a personal reason, but if you're satisfied that the documents are genuine, then really the motive of whoever supplied them to you is beside the point, and I think that's a general rule.

I think most editors look at the material and say are we satisfied that it's genuine, is there a strong public interest case for publication and if the answer to both of those is yes then you publish.>

The World Today (ABC) Friday October 31,2014
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s4118752.htm

otb,

Go back and read my links - given earlier
before you post. They just may clarify
things for you.

You protest too much, Me thinks.

cont'd ...

Chalk and cheese.

Read Poirot's post again old chap.
You can try to twist things as much as you
want according to YOUR biases
and partisan politics (funny the things you accuse
others of - you so blatantly display) but the evidence
and the facts remain the same. Senator Peris wasn not
in politics at the time - its all a beat up,
and Prof Spurr's emails have national significance.
Therein lies the difference. Your arguments are
nonsensical! That's the reason they are not acceptable.

If e-mail or any other mail is private then no one should reveal the contents unless to save someone's life or something of similar or greater magnitude.

This is clearly not the case in the matter under discussion and I hope that he takes New Matilda to the cleaners.

One might e-mail "I'll sell you the Mk IV bomb or swap some parts for a Mk 10"
and it could be construed in a number of ways, and much could be made of it, especially if both the sender and the recipient had names that might be linked to radical political movements.

In fact Yusuf Mohammed was telling his mate Paudrig O'Flaithbheartaigh that he'd sell his old bomb of a Mk IV Jaguar or would swap it for some bits for his Mk 10 model of the same make.

otb

you can't reason against Emily's listers who have no problem with pathological lying. They speak of the old boys network often which in their eyes entitle them to be shameless in their deceit. We see it time and time again and the sisterhood ties are far more important than truth. A bit like the tribal ties generally triump over any truth or reason. You need an arts degree to specialise in this type of lying.

runner,

I'm very impressed that
you actually know "Emily Listers," and can speak for them
so freely - and what they think.

To what "Sisterhood" are you referring?

The only "Sisterhood" that I'm familiar with are the
nuns (Sisters of Mercy) that my family knew.
And of course Sister Mary Virgilius who was the
Principal of one of the schools that I attended,
about whom I've spoken in the past on this forum.

Most women I know are too busy working, raising families,
and like the rest of humanity are simply struggling with their
day to day existence and responsibilities.

But there you go.
You learn something new on this forum.

They are shameless.

Apparent gaps in Nova Peris' story have immediately become obvious, presenting the likelihood she may have misled the Parliament. See here,

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/nova-peris-allegations-new-questions-emerge-over-statement-20141031-11f51i.html

If there is any truth in the allegations and the media outlets can be expected to have obtained legal advice on the evidence available to them before going to print, other indigenous are not going to be supporting her.

It would have been money that could have gone towards giving a leg-up and hope to a number of young indigenous with their sporting careers, or at least to try out and get seen by selectors.

Indigenous are also stakeholders who are due full and frank disclosure.

There's an excellent editorial in today's
The Age, Saturday, November 1, 2014 in the
Forum Section on page 32. I highly recommend
it to everyone.

:It is desirable and inevitable that in a free
and open democratic society there will be
strong debate about the tendion between public
interest and the rights of the individual, and
about what the optimal balance might be..."

"...In recent days...cases have illustrated the
nuances of this trade-off between two of the most
important el;ements of any civilised community.
All ...involve the media, and so serve, too, to
illustrate the intersection and the trade-off
between public and private interests."

Two of the cases mentioned we are currently
attempting to discuss here. The Age tells us
that -

"ALP Northern Territory Senator Nova Peris, a former
Olympian faced allegations that she improperly
sought to influence the spending of public
money in 2010, before sh entered Parliament, by
misusing her position with Athletics Australia. On
the basis of leaked private emails, widely published
in mainstream media, between Peris and Trinidadian
athlete Ato Boldon, it was suggested that an
ambassadorial trip by Boldon to Australia, financed
by Athletics Australia, was in part a front for
romantic clandestine assignation between the two
international sport stars."

"Peris and Boldon vehemently deny any wrongdoing, a
position buttressed by Athletics Australia, which
decalred it was "thrilled" by Boldon's trip."

"With no other evidence to support any claim that
there was misuse of funds, we believe that puts the
case to rest."

The Age continues - "...in the example of University
of Sydney academic Barry Spurr, who also had personal
emails leaked, we believe there is a public interest
case to pursue. The emails, which the professor says
were a joke (sic), contained slurs against a range
of individuals and groups, and he has been
suspended by his university while it investigates."

cont'd ...

cont'd ...

"The public interest argument here is that Professor
Spurr was part of a review commissioned by the
Federal Government into the national curriculum. The
issue to determine is whether the revelations show the
Professor to be unsuitable for such a pivotal role."

"All ...cases involve leaked emails, some of them
quite probably illegally obtained. The code of ethics
of this and many other media organisations, as well as
the principles of the Australian Press Council, stipulate
that intrusions of privacy should not be published unless
there is a public interest."

"In making that assessment, the legality of the sourcing
of information is a consideration subordinate to
public interest."

"History is replete with examples of the public interest
being serviced by whistle-blowers who provided
illegally obtained information to media outlets.
That health, open debate is necessary to help determine
what can reasonably be said to meet that definition."

The Age sums up:

"The lesson for individuals is prudence. Emails written
on professional accounts are the property of the
employer. Even in the case of private accounts, caution is
advised, given the constant risk of hacking."

"In essence, never send an email you would not be
comfortable seeing on the front page of a newspaper."

Foxy
the only thing your long rant proves is that journalist (especially of the Fairfax brand) are incapable of logic. They have been trained by the same 'group think' on how to protect, diguise, deceive and deny truth.

Foxy,

Once again you have deluged the forum with lots of words. However that page 32 editorialising with its 'beliefs' is silent on a number of major issues raised by the NT News and others including the Sydney Morning Herald, such as:

- on exactly what evidence apart from the denials of the alleged beneficiaries of the claimed travel rort was the opinion (beliefs) based;

- what of Peris' claim in the Parliament that she was of the victim of an extortion attempt, "to extract money and embarrass me and my family"; and

- who paid and exactly what reporting and auditing was in place and is available for public scrutiny?

Referring to the last mentioned, as many would be aware, reporting can be very superficial and audits are most likely based on sampling (confidence based sampling) and cannot be construed as providing assurance in the case of particular claims.

Here is the NT News report (SMH link given earlier) and you should show exactly where those wads of words you posted answer the serious questions raised.

http://tinyurl.com/mkrjnml

runner,

Actually, it's not my long rant but an article
from The Age and I full understand its lack of
appeal to you.

Your logic will always get you from A to B.

otb,

I also fully understand your problem in not being
capable of processing lengthy articles. Don't
be embarrassed by this. It's quite common especially
for people of a certain age.
You should
simply not read or respond to them. So take it easy.

However The Age article
was written on a different subject.
The Age article was written
on the topic of "private versus public interests,"
and well worth reading in my opinion. Jonathan Holmes
wrote an excellent article on the same subject which
you may want to Google - just for interests sake.

In any case - it will be interesting to see what
develops as a result of both of these two cases
further down the road.

Stay tuned folks.

Foxy,

So you have nothing that answers or dispels the questions raised by the NT News and the SMH.

You might refer to the article 31 Oct,2014 by Chris Graham in the New Matilda, a source you rely on when it suits you but not now apparently.

As usual I will not be responding to your rudeness.

otb,

You want me to provide you with answers to
questions that you're interested in as
raised by the NT News. That's not logical.

As for Chris Graham's article in The New Matilda.
Yes of course I have read it. And as I stated in
my earlier post, it will be interesting to read
what develops in the cases discussed by The Age
and of course New Matilda, to see what develops
out of all this further down the road.

Talking about rudeness.
You just may acquire some credibility in that regard
the day you practice what you preach old chap.
You can't have it both ways.
Pot, Kettle, Black!

Again,

"JONATHON HOLMES: There is a pretty strong public interest justification for what they've done, just as there was for what New Matilda did in publishing the private emails of Professor Barry Spurr.

I don't think it would be logical frankly to say one is justified and the other isn't, because there is a strong public interest case in both of those.

LINDY KERIN: So the NT News hasn't done anything wrong here or News Corporation hasn't done anything wrong?

JONATHON HOLMES: Look, of course, you can argue, that they published too much for the purpose or that they shouldn't have published the email about Cathy Freeman or they didn't' need to put in all the salacious details, but as I say, I thought it was a lay down public interest case for the publication of the Barry Spurr emails and I don't think I could logically say well that one's okay but the Northern Territory isn't.

...

I think most editors look at the material and say are we satisfied that it's genuine, is there a strong public interest case for publication and if the answer to both of those is yes then you publish."

The World Today (ABC) Friday October 31,2014
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s4118752.htm
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 31 October 2014 7:52:50 PM

There's always various perspectives on any
issue. Here's just one from Malcolm Turnbull:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/media-went-too-far-on-nova-peris-email-scandal-says-malcolm-turnbull-20141031-11ennw.html

That's what makes discussions interesting - when more
than one view is presented.

He probably realises that she is a lame duck Senator who will be ineffectual and a millstone around the neck of Labor. So she should stay where she is and as a lasting reminder of the poor decisions of ex-PM Julia Whatsherbloody name.

Setting reported tawdry morals to one side though, there remains the core allegation that public money was diverted to a private purpose.

Commenting from a broader perspective, why weren't Australian sportspeople good enough? A local would have been more relevant to young indigenous hopefuls and there are many who would do it for free. Many already do it for free and could do with a few extra dollars to cover expenses.

Why must there always be that overseas cringe?

otb,

Excellent and valid points raised.

I've never understand why we don't value
our own. They certainly are valued overseas.
Perhaps that's why so many have gone and
do go overseas. A shame really.

Is it part of the "Tall Poppy" syndrome.
I suspect its a complex issue yet again.

Thanks for that Foxy. The cringe is exasperating.

There is a very active program for indigenous kids in AFL (girls too), for example.

For always turning up, being damn good value and good role models, the 'engine room' players from team sports are the best value for children and youth. They are the solid performers, the men and women without whom those stars they set up on the field would never have been stars.

First it must be about getting one's own life in order and being resilient. That is a tough call for young indigenous who may not get support they need at home.

otb,

I can't even begin to understand parents who don't
support their children. But with the Indigenous
people the issues are very complicated and I certainly
don't have the answers to their problems. I remember
reading an article some time ago about a writer and
his encounter with an Indigenous child. He wrote:

"On another occasion, when walking through the gate
into the front yard of another house, a little girl of
about seven stood still in the middle of the path.
She didn't move as I approached. She didn't say anything.
She just looked up at me in a way that I have never
forgotten. No child had ever looked at me like that before.
There was a mixture of concern, anxiety and distaste. It
wasn't particularly personal. But it was even more
disturbing because of that. She looked at me across a wide
gulf of suspicion and distrust. I was a migloo and she
didn't like me or want me in her yard..."

You're suggestion of good role models and setting up programs
of educating these children I totally agree is so important.

From what I can see, the public interest test is essentially whether the "scandal" will sell newspapers. Hacking into private files and emails to reveal juicy private details seems to be included. Ask Jennifer lawrence how she feels about the public interest in her private photos.

As for Barry Spurr, Whilst I think he should have been more circumspect, I think the University will find itself in serious legal strife if it tries to take further disciplinary action based on private e mails taken out of context of the entire conversations.

Dear SM,

We'll have to wait and see what the courts decide.

Once again - Thanks to everyone who contributed
to this discussion.

I am looking forward to seeing what if anything - develops in
the future over these cases.

Perhaps someone could start another discussion
on public interest versus the right to privacy
and where to draw the line.

May we all continue to have further robust discussions on
a variety of topics.