It happened one fine day that inexplicably the 'Left' came to power in all strata's of government ! Local, State and of course Federal Governments. Including 'power' in BOTH the lower and upper houses. Who then are the 'Left' ? Broadly speaking would you agree, 'the Left' would probably comprise of members drawn mainly from the Labor Party, the Greens Party and some of the Independents, as well as their State and Local government equivilants ?

Do most of the Left follow the same ideologies that support radicalism, reformation, or socialist views, many of which are calculated to disenfranchise the power of big business ? It's claimed they prefer a bigger public service, believing that it's only government who can be sufficiently trusted to run those important, large public utilities, health and welfare and similar.

Furthermore it's claimed the 'Left' believe they are more in touch with the needs of the ordinary working man, far more so than the Conservatives, if for no other reason because of their trusted alliance with the Trade Union movement. They also consider they have a 'heart' as well as a clear (human) duty towards those in need, even to people extending well beyond our borders. Highly laudable I would've thought.

Their natural political adversary is the 'Conservatives' mainly comprising the LNP and some Independents, who favour free enterprise, private ownership and social conservatism ? And generally speaking prefer smaller government, smaller bureaucracies, stronger defence as well as law and order and many other strategies seeking to streamline government.

So if the 'Left' did come to power, what would happen, a good thing, or a disaster ?

'So if the 'Left' did come to power, what would happen, a good thing, or a disaster ? '

o sung wu

Europe is the finest example of leftist ideology. A totally divided group of nations on the verge of self destruction. Big Governments, large debts and godless ideology from former nations that were the powerhouse of the world. Unfortunatley our learning (indoctrination centres) have followed suite. Just listen to the abc/progressives sprouting their 'superior intellect'. Every person with a little commonsense can see through the hollow philosophy but have not spent thousands of hours at tax payer expense learning to counteract the rhetoric of these progressives. Can u believe they pay the likes of Tony Jones $300,000 pa plus to manipulate discussions. Forty years ago it would not of been possible for a terrorist with a flag to stab 2 policemen doing their job and then the attacker being the vicitm. If the police were lesbian/feminist the abc would of faced a huge dilemma as to who the victim would be.

G'day there RUNNER...

I couldn't have put it any better than what you've stated my friend. You've summarised it all perfectly, if there were any doubt you need look no further than Europe as you've quite rightly pointed out.

Actually RUNNER I've been out of the job for awhile now but former mates tell me how the job has changed appreciably in terms of being politically correct at every level. Even in the manner they do their jobs, with the most intense political superintendency, like at no other time in history.

Speaking of the 'Godless ideology', though post Vietnam, where I managed to lose my Christian beliefs, nevertheless the Christian doctrine (whether or not you believe in any God), weren't a bad set of standards, for us in a country Australia to live by ? It seemed to work pretty well I thought, where now we've sought to distance ourselves from ALL Christian standards and rules, which is clearly a fundamental mistake in my opinion. You DON'T have to be a believer, to follow and observe most Christian rules and standards to live by.

I reckon, the 'rot' seemed to have set-in, once we adopted this stupid Political Correctness, and this attitude that 'whatever it takes' to ensure that socialism ultimately prevails. Which is the transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism or the 'Right' and the realization of communism. The mantra of the 'Left'. As I said, spot on there RUNNER !

o sung wu,

My gift to you this fine afternoon...

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2009/dec/17/what-is-living-and-what-is-dead-in-social-democrac/

"What Is Living and What Is Dead in Social Democracy?"

Tony Judt

......

runner,

(You'll be pleased to note that I'm having a squiz this avo at St Paul's Epistle to the Romans.....not bad for a leftie:)

Dear O Sung Wu,

Many people believe that "voters will get it
right in the end." We've had quite a few changes
of government throughout this country's history.
Some people vote strictly along party lines,
some vote for policies that make sense to them.
Reasons for the way people vote vary. We're all
individuals after all - with our own subjective
views of the world - including politics.
I don't buy all this "political correctness," stuff.
Nor in labeling people. If its political -
how the hell can it be correct (joke).

It is hard to be
able to predict the outcomes of elections at the
best of times or the precise reasons for why people vote
the way they do. I think that each election is
different as are the circumstances that precede
it. And as we know - polls aren't always
accurate either.

I find it rather disturbing though that in a country
such as ours - where we have always prided ourselves
on a "fair-go," that all of a sudden we have certain
mantras being espoused relentlessly (granted by a
minority) that - "If you
disagree with us, you are an extremist, a Leftist,"
anti - freedom of speech, a "Progressive"
and worse.

Childish mantras like - the "independent
media bias," the ABC's bias, the "Left is destroying
Australia," the economic morass is solely the fault
of Labor, and so on. That only the
"truth" emanates from Mr Murdoch and NewsCorp Ltd -
with their "fair and balanced" reporting.

These are the tactics of Adolf Hitler. Of repeating a lie
24 hours hours a day until the public believes the lie
is a fact. Well, most Australians are better than that.
Most do not have radical agendas - regardless of what
Mr Andrew Bolt, or Mr Alan Jones, may have us believe.

It seems strange that some people no longer seem to be able
to have the thoughtful, lively, sometimes provocative,
but always productive debates of the past. Today memes and
mantras have taken over. Sad really. This lowers the bar
for all on this forum.

o sung wu

thanks for your endorsement of my post. Interesting I have spoken to a couple of Vietnam vets who lost faith after witnessing the worst of human nature in Vietnam. I would imagine it must be similar for believers in Iraq, Iran, and Syria although their are some very strong ex Muslim preachers of the gospel from those areas. You are right to say 'You DON'T have to be a believer, to follow and observe most Christian rules and standards to live by. ' Wherever the Judea Christian ethic was adopted a nation prospered greatly. Those principles have been trashed by those who think they are smart however they totally ignore the rotton fruit the trashing of those principles has produced.

I don't particularly think captialisnm is great but a good days work for a good days pay is a good biblical principle. I worked as a screw under Rex Jackson. As you know he ended up behind bars himself. The social engineering even started back then. I remember one srew getting killed by a pyscho. Sixty minutes ran a story full of half truths (lies) about how badly this crim was being treated. I was totally ignorant of politics or agendas. I was astounded they could get away with such bias. Decades later I see the abc/progresses reporting everything to fit their narrative. They speak of Murdoch and conspiracies completely blind to their own dogmas.

Poirot,

(You'll be pleased to note that I'm having a squiz this avo at St Paul's Epistle to the Romans.....not bad for a leftie:)

I am pleased Poirot. One of my favourite books in the bible.

o sung wu,

I do not believe that many of the 'Progressives' claiming to be Left would recognise 'Left' if there was a monster neon street sign directing them.

The old Lefties would be rolling in their graves at the conceited, egomaniac, self-interested, materialists swinging off the taxpayers' teats who claim to be leftist, as though to lend some dubious authenticity to their selfish, forever entitled and dependent materialism.

As if Rudd, Big Red with the $2m 'bungalow', or bobble-headed L'il Willie Shorten aka 'Whatever She Says', would ever have lasted with the real Lefties. They are rare on the ground now, which is a pity.

Tony Abbott is more Left in his beliefs and actions than the egocentric ex-PM Julia Whatshername would ever have been (and was she so interested in others outside of herself and her cronies anyhow?).

Still, you ask about all levels of government being controlled by the 'Progressive' leftists about now, so I will address that question:

-first, all of the 'Progressive' leftist would be living high on the hog, which means the limos, international travel to tourist places and getting much bigger pays (remember ex-PM Juila?);

- secondly, they would be scrabbling about for more taxes, including death duties and CGT on people's homes, to pay for those expensive lifestyles tat includ giving away millions overseas to to strut the world stage and be reported while doing it (an ego thing, remember ex-PM Julia); and

- thirdly, we would be in all sorts of dogs' doody as the feckless leftist 'Progressives' continue with victim politics and paying handsomely for it, and from bringing in new voters to support them with open borders and the big 'Welcome to Centrelink' flashing sign.

to be continued..

continued..

Just picture a bloated Canberra, an enormous iron lung for the thousands of affirmative action and multicult certified public servants to pump out those taxpayers' $$ to the certified State certified 'victims' with the certainty of taxpayer-funded victimhood into perpetuity while Labor was in office.

The leftist 'Progressives' always presume to know what is best for everyone - especially for themselves - so as a earlier leftist posted suggested, there would be no more need for elections if only the voters could just get it 'right' (er, leftist 'Progressive that is).

It is a nightmare isn't it/ Actually the first of first things would be ex-PM Julia Whatshername and the bloke she knifed (to put him out of his misery she says!) applying for even more taxpayer-funded benefits. Y'know offices and staffs in more than one cbd and rev up those big jets for the overseas jaunts.

G'evening to RUNNER, ONTHEBEACH, POIROT, and FOXY...

Thank you POIROT for the interesting lecture; 'What is living and What is Dead in Social Democracy' by Tony JUDT. Fine words, even finer ideals, with fantastic outcomes if we were to all strictly adhere to the propositions of Mr JUDT.

I would concede in an ideal world much of what he's stated would be of great benefit to us all. Trouble is we're in a very imperfect world with politicians of both sides particularly unworthy of our collective trust, nor is any of them, with sufficient 'smarts' to initiate even one tenth of his ideas ?

A question I'd like to put to those of the 'Left' - Why is it there's always questions of corruption, malfeasance, and outright criminality associated with Labor Party members, the Unions, and many of their 'hard core supporters' ? No doubt the LNP aren't without sin either, but nowhere to the extent of Labor ? Even their leader Mr Shorten had to defend allegations that were made against him, apparently NETO by police without sufficient evidence to proceed.

As most of you know, I have very little 'particular' knowledge of the intricacies of politics. But time after time we continually hear there's a distinct odour of illegality associated with Labor ? Even amongst themselves, there's substantial dysfunction with the K RUDD vs J. GILLARD brawl, each blaming the other for the individual downfall of the Party at the last general election. Even the lamentable Mr Carr hasn't escaped censure...and this is the Party we want to govern our country again ?

Trouble is POIROT if we were to institute ALL that Mr Tony JUDT has suggested ? Could anyone of the existing Labor Party be trusted to implement any of his proposals ? I think not !

'evening to you ONTHEBEACH...

Sorry I had to absent myself from the previous Topic when Vietnam and Jane FONDA reared it's controversial head ? It's interesting how there's really only one side of the political spectrum that will proudly wear the uniform of Australia's Armed Forces ? I do hasten to add that the military is made up of individuals of all political persuasions, even some from the 'Left' (not many I'd agree).

If all our governor's were from the Left, could you imagine the size of local councils and our burgeoning Rate Notices, a new State parliament building would need to be constructed to accommodate many of the new politicians, and their staff. Our public service would be so immense and colossal to be absolutely 'top heavy', it may even tumble over with it's enormous size and compliment of new employees (for life) ?

Our law and order would be substantially diminished. Bail laws scrapped, granting a 'charged' individual Bail, as a 'right', rather than that dependent on the circumstances of the crime ? There would be many new 'enlightened' individuals appointed straight from universities to the judiciary, in order to support the growing numbers of 'Jelly Judges' as a fiscal strategy to 'progressively' close down many of our gaols ? Allowing for substantial reductions of police and prison staff numbers. A fiscal achievement of magnificent proportions I would've thought ?

Keep the faith ol' man !

o sung wu,

"As most of you know, I have very little 'particular' knowledge of the intricacies of politics. But time after time we continually hear there's a distinct odour of illegality associated with Labor ?..."

"Trouble is POIROT if we were to institute ALL that Mr Tony JUDT has suggested ? Could anyone of the existing Labor Party be trusted to implement any of his proposals ? I think not !"

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/icac-exposes-the-nsw-legislature-as-the-most-corrupt-parliament-in-australian-history/story-fni0cx12-1227040649242?nk=1a4cd34c5dad87464f4fb27a795d404b

"Welcome to the most corrupt parliament in Australian history — the NSW Legislature.

In nine months, 11 Liberal politicians have resigned, stepped down or moved to the crossbenches amid corruption investigations. Labor’s ship has been equally rat-infested, with names like Obeid, Macdonald, Kelly and Tripodi now bywords for the stink in Macquarie St"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-stuck-in-travel-expenses-cycle-of-shame-20131109-2x8lr.html

"The Abbott government's crackdown on politicians who rort travel expenses follows a series of reports by Fairfax Media revealing dubious claims by a quarter of Tony Abbott's frontbench."

Yeah, mate, you gotta love the squeaky clean Libs!

Lol!

G'day there POIROT...

I share your opinions apropos the ethical behaviour of 'most' politicians ! Most are ROTTEN to the core, absolutely putrid ! We actually agree on something. The question is POIROT what can we, Mr & MRS average of the voting public, actually do about it ? Fail to vote ? Support the Greens, Independents or the Palmer United Party ? That's the conundrum, we've no alternative - I'm buggered if I know ? I'm sorry, I can't really endorse your very last 'expression' ---> 'LOL', it's a far too serious dilemma to express any sort of humour !

Thanks POIROT.

o sung wu,

Pardon me if I get in before the anticipated deluge of pages of 'Its all Abbott's fault!' and 'You too!' to observe that in Australia the politicians have been allowed to stray well away from the Westminster conventions that are essential to the ethical and effective operation of the Parliaments, federal especially (where there was some leadership and modelling of principle a long time ago).

I suspect it is because the political machines (of parties) and the 'numbers (wo)men' behind the scenes are pulling the strings more than ever before. The perfect example was Kevin Rudd's exasperation and futile efforts as federal Labor leader to wrest power back from the influence of (corrupt) factions to the Labor Caucus, comprising all Labor members in the House. Later, it was to transpire that Labor members themselves were to be shown that they could never have an effective say either. So much for democracy.

I am satisfied that the only real protection and the sole robust control we can rely on is freedom of speech.

However freedom of speech received another setback recently when terrorist threats forced George Brandis to rescind proposed changes to Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act. I wonder if anyone remembered later how politically correct self-censorship and concerns about possibly upsetting the multicultural wagon permitted hundreds of young children to be traded as sex slaves and introduced to hard drugs at the same time?

It is the enemies of free speech we should be concerned about.

G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

This political correctness 'thingo' is truly insidious, and threatening the very notion that we have 'freedom of speech' in this country. I believe there are many Labor supporters out there, who are just as fed up with watching every word they say, lest they also fall victim of the 'thought police' ?

You listen to traditional talk back radio hosts, and many of them are ever mindful with what they say, lest someone of some obscure religious sect reacts in a negative manner. So scared, so fearful are our politicians (as evidenced of Geo. BRANDIS backing down over S.18c) even they are nervous of violating some obscure PC directive !

Imagine if you will, if some of our stronger more forthright politicians, from ANY political party, were NOT constrained or obstructed by this preposterous PC nonsense, perhaps then they may well be in a position to speak with more honesty, with more integrity and sincerity, instead of trying to express themselves, as if they were timidly walking on these PC egg shells ? We might not like or believe what they've said, but we'd be left in no doubt what they meant !

Another feature of this damnable PC detritus, I believe it can manifestly assist those corrupt politicians, from speaking the truth, particularly in matters associated with questions of their own propriety and vocational rectitude ? There's nothing like putting a question or questions to someone you suspect of wrongdoing, when they claim privacy law, or PC as an inhibitor to speak with absolute candour !

Interestingly, there's nothing like claiming 'privilege' or immunity when something is allegedly said, in House Confidence to adequately assuage one's guilt. Thank you very much indeed, to the architect of 'Political Correctness', you've caused incalculable chaos and widespread mistrust and scepticism, probably throughout the free world.

otb,

"I am satisfied that the only real protection and the sole robust control we can rely on is freedom of speech.

However freedom of speech received another setback recently when terrorist threats forced George Brandis to rescind proposed changes to Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act...."

"It is the enemies of free speech we should be concerned about."

What a joke...this govt has done more in the last week to dilute our "freedoms" than any govt has before it...in peacetime...in the service of a confected "terror threat".

Funnily enough, Abbott spoke up on behalf of Peter Greste who was jailed for 7 years by the Egyptians for revealing (what was deemed to be) sensitive info.

The Abbott govt now has instituted laws that would jail him for 10 years if it happened in Australia.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/our-free-press-is-under-siege/story-fni0fha6-1227072053944

"IN opposition, Tony Abbott and his Coalition colleagues were great defenders of press freedom, fighting off with ferocity Labor’s attempts to introduce new media laws.

In government, the same Coalition politicians are using the terrorism threat to justify measures that will hamper journalists in their investigative, watchdog role.

New anti-terror laws have aroused concerns that journalists could go to jail for doing their most important job: holding those in authority to account. And on the most vital of issues — national security.

On top of that, plans to increase the range of communications data that can be accessed by authorities, and the time for which it is stored, would add to difficulties already faced by reporters in the digital age."

Any complaints about the curtailment of press freedoms, otb?

o sung wu,

The prevailing political correctness is so deeply ingrained and insidious that we often catch ourselves self-censoring and blubbering protective statements even before we say our piece.

After watching the attack on Virgin for the very safe and flight approved sponsor flight over the MCG as a prelude to the AFL Grand final, I am wondering too if being offended has become THE national pastime. At least in some quarters, eh?

So many play the victim and they are so good at it! Still, any night on the SBS and ABC and they will get plenty of lessons.

Poirot,

LOL, have you come to the wrong guy for a game of forum tit-for-tat. No time for that and no inclination.

I just read a very interesting article on the origins of Political Correctness. "In 1923 in Germany, a think-tank is established that takes on the role of translating Marxism from economic into cultural terms, that creates Political Correctness as we know it today, and essentially it has created the basis for it by the end of the 1930s."

http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/

Hi there CONSERVATIVEHIPPIE...

What an interesting link you've provided us with, detailing the origins of 'Political Correctness'. As I stated in an earlier thread, PC is probably the greatest threat we have, by eroding our rights to 'free speech' !

Once we lose those rights, to speak totally freely, amongst ourselves, as well as in public places, our environment will not be unlike that of Berlin in the late 1930's ?

I long ago gave up any attempt to understand why some things are left wing and others right wing, ever since I was attacked at a community demo (? I thought slightly left wing) by a member of the labour party as 'a stooge of the liberal party'!

Seems to me 'left wing' and/or 'right wing' is just what you/they think of them/you.

PS Free Speech Germany 1930s: 'Kill the Jews'. That's the trouble: your/my free speech = my/your hate speech.

G'evening to you COSSOMBY...

You indeed make a fair point with your confusion and delineation of the Left & Right of politics. To me, and I should point out that I don't have much formal education, the 'Right' of politics is a loose description of 'Conservative' values and behaviour. Whereas, the 'Left' seems to identify more with Socialist values and doctrinal beliefs.

Furthermore I believe any good government should retrieve the best concepts and ideas from both sides, rather than pontificating about whether the idea or concept originated from the Left or Right ? Still, all that seems too easy, and devotees from both sides, would prefer to harangue and rebuke the opposing side, rather than working to improve the destiny and predicament of the entire population.