- it is done best by enthusiastic amateurs, not professionals. so how do we get a hand on the levers of government?

suppose labor loses the election by 1%. suppose 2% of the electorate have not ticked any politicians names, just wrote on the ballot:

"democracy - or the libs"

there would be two results: 3 more years of the liberal party rule, and the labor party would put citizen initiated referendum back on their platform. they took it off in '68, thereby selling out the people of australia, particularly the workers who suffer when the libs get in.

we wouldn't have 'workchoices' now, if the people of australia had cir. the labor party are not the champions of the poor, they're just a mob of cynical parasites like all the other pollies. do you really want to reward them for their treachery to the ideal of democracy?

if you can grit your teeth and endure 3 more years of lib rule, you get a reward of a lifetime of real citizenship. and labor is not much better anyway, so give it some thought.

And here was I thinking that it was because no matter who does it they we all get screwed......

Well, if an enthusiastic amateur gets their hands on the "lever of government" be careful they don't suck the country dry!

y, there are amusing ways to twist any discission with 'sex' in it, bugsy.

but states with cir are more efficient and better run than oligarchies- notably switzerland, where a very small nation has a currency so stable it's an international benchmark.

They also have a lot of guns, hardly any crime, do not participate in wars, have a civil militia with compulsory military service, is a confederation and is considered to have a high degree of integration of immigrants and on and on. In fact the comparisons about Swiss culture and most other countries reveal quite a difference in political and cultural institutions.

The fact that CIR works in their country does not mean it will work in all countries.

But I like their cheese.

very true, bugsy- we'd have to grow into it. but i think it's important that we get started. pollies have shown no inclination to do anything about the problems they have created. some of those problems are leading to racial suicide.

For cir to work you need an intelligent, well informed, well educated citizenry, which we ain't got, as a fair percentage of voters in Australia vote with their hip pocket, if monetary concern is the the overiding feature then cir will fail, example California through cir voted not to increase tax and the education system was deprived of funds.

alan, we only have one vote, so we choose the party that will give more money, or steal less. but if we had cir, we get to vote on separate issues. one vote on our income, one vote on war or peace, one vote for this environment issue, another for that.

on most issues, we can afford to think of the nation's welfare, not just our own. it works in switzerland.

24 american states have some citizen input to policy. the people of california reduced their education budget, but california is the engine room of america, under citizen control. even if they get it wrong, and they are mortal, their batting average is much better than pollie dominated states.

getting cir would not turn oz upside down. even after citizen groups got their act together with a referendum proposal, more than half the electorate would have to like it before it could pass. that's much better than leaving policy in the hands of half a dozen men in suits, plotting in secret to reward their campaign fund contributors.

We should have the Hare Clarke system as in Tasmania, it was so sucesful there they butchered it.
I don't think I have ever had a true representive in parliament in my life, as I have never voted for my local member, and my ideas and ideals wouldn't even get a hearing.
If we 5 members per electorate there is a chance one would empathise with me, and the rest would have to take a bit more notice of the voter, of course we would have a lot less electorates but a more democratic system.