Whatever one thinks of what the Indig' were or were not before white settlement the simple fact remains, that land and that life are gone, and impossible to renew, even if that was desirable.
It's way past time for the Indig to start trying to enter the 21st century on an equal footing, only they themselves can begin that process.
As it stands they are their own worst enemies, but also their own best hope.
I'm against any recognition or divisive separation based on race, it's a guarantee of future problems.
Their culture has been largely destroyed and no amount of ashes and sackcloth will bring it back, get over it and move on.
Unlike a lot of people I've been personally involved with the Indig and their problems, both urban and remote NT communities and I weep at the waste of resources and money, the corruption and outright theft.
Those losses are inevitable given the lack of supervision, any human anywhere would be tempted, yet any attempt to enforce accountability is howled down as racist, see what I mean about the problems that spring from having racially based programs?
It's time to stop pandering to idealistic crud and declare true equality, no special racist monies or programs, give the Indig' the same resources and the same responsibilities as the rest of us, and give them thereby the opportunity to become a part of the country they actually live in.

I never met Peter Sutton or Marcia Langton but I often think that if indeed all these so called authoritative voices and advisors to government on Indigenous people are in fact who they appear to be then why are we still in the same dunny. Maybe that is the problem, a hell of a lot of experts with 'big picture' solutions instead of government talking directly to the grass roots leaders, people who are experts on themselves. ATSIC wasn't perfect but what bureaucracy is ever perfect? But at least we had our representatives, our leaders chosen by us. Some of them weren't desirable and needed to be weeded out but most were honest and genuine. It is a pity that the black cabal of advisors to John Howard could not realise the folly of their actions in advocating the dismantling of ATSIC. Noel Pearson doesn't offer any 'real' solutions either, without his 'faceless' advisors in his ears he wouldn't say the things he says, he's a bit like a ventriloquist doll, evident in his so called welfare reform plans showing signs of cracks at the seams but still manages to attract the lion share of tax payers dollars from government despite very little to show for the amount of money thrown at him, lots of activity stats in the trial reform sites but few outcome stats (there is a difference) oh except maybe Aurukun. I would like to know how much consultancy fees he pays himself while people in those community trial sites don't appear to be any better off.

Trotting out the same old tired voices for the sake of same old ideological talk fest about the so called 'problem' with Indigenous people. Here's how I see it. Western paradigms cannot hold up under the weight of Indigenous epistemology. This is the problem. It is a fact. There, I said it! I am not pretending to be the 'authoritative' voice on Indigenous people but from where I stand, my ways of knowing, and understanding come through interconnected familial relationships I have with metaphysical and natural knowledge entities: my epistemology. Western ways of knowing is compartmentalised into four major abstract "pillars" of knowledge: critical theory, positivist and post positivist, feminist, and constructivist-interpretivist. Basically, the imposition of these or combination of these means that fitting square pegs into round holes becomes the dominant lens through which a field of view can be seen as the only right and white way of knowledge production. I am not the first to write about this, many Indigenous scholars have been emerging here in Australia and overseas, are doing this, writing about our research philosophy. Here in Australia, scholars such as; Arbon, Rigney, Gaeia, Moreton-Robinson, West, Fredericks, and Nakata are the vanguard of this emerging renaissance of which I am also making meaning contributions. Read their interpretations of Indigenous philosophy and maybe some of what i am writing about here makes sense. The Pearsons, Langtons, Dodsons et al are becoming old guard and old hat.

Numbul,

"I never met Peter Sutton or Marcia Langton but I often think that if indeed all these so called authoritative voices and advisors to government on Indigenous people are in fact who they appear to be then why are we still in the same dunny."

Fascinating logic: if x, y and z, then why haven't A, B or C done something about it ? There would be a multitude of factors between one set and the other, Numbul, if you thought about it for just on moment.

You have probably never heard of Peter Sutton or Marcia Langton until recently, either, and so fall into the child's trap of believing that thy have contributed no more than you know about, i.e. nothing. Professor Sutton has been involved in, and writing about Aboriginal issues, for nearly fifty years now: one of his first papers, in 1966, was about the fascinating and very distinctive English dialect spoken in my wife's community on Lake Alexandrina, Raukkan. He is probably the only speaker now of many Cape York languages, and has been in the forefront fighting for Indigenous rights for many years. Professor Langton has also been front and centre for many decades in championing Indigenous issues.

What sort of rubbish are they teaching at universities and TAFEs these days ? But stay ignorant and keep spouting bullsh!t: it's so much easier than actually learning anything :)

Joe
www.firstsources.info

Joe (aka Loudmouth), my opinion stands as it is, I am not responsible for your level of comprehension of the point I make, and I will not join you in bottom feeding by using abrasive, and bullying language in my reply to yours. You selectively isolate one part of my total opinion and proceeded downwards from there, although I must admit I now know a bit more about Peter Sutton than before thanks to the credentials you accord him in your last reply post. Thanks for sharing this. Also, I will make it my point of interest to read his publications, and will attempt [this is not guaranteed though] to find space for his works in amongst my researching and writing to privilege Indigenous Australian philosophy. One last thing Joe, I possess 30+ years of working experience initially at project officer, and finally senior manager levels within state, territory and federal public services all within Indigenous Australian affairs, and now as an academic and researcher all combine with my lived experience to provide me with an appreciation of the factors and issues for success and failures probably more than you. But then again, who am I to make comments about the "authoritative" voices about Indigenous Australians.

Hi Numbul

" I possess 30+ years of working experience initially at project officer, and finally senior manager levels within state, territory and federal public services all within Indigenous Australian affairs, and now as an academic and researcher ..... "You should remember that an assertion without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

God, how depressing. Where is the quality of yesteryear ?

You make some interesting but baseless assertions. But an assertion without evidence can be disregarded, without evidence. If you assert, you have to prove, or at least provide some back-up.

Joe