"What about if bloody ethnic warfare or civil war breaks out in this country between the big tribes bought here by immigration in a few decades who's children are going to be standing around you for protection? "

So your answer is that we all start breeding so that when we do eventually hit some kind of limit brought on by all that breeding we will at least kill more of 'them'?

Freediver, Ludwig et al.

A point to be made (and I think that Shrkfin alluded to it, but got a little carried away), is that certain things rely on there being a reasonable supply of young people:

* physical jobs (including nursing and police)
* defence force
* taxes to support old age pensions (and other welfare)

There is no doubt a much longer list, but these are a few that sharkfin raised.

My basic standpoint is that 99% of people will need at least 1 of these things during their lives. So, if you dont have or dont want kids yourself (to contribute to the general requirement for a next geberation), then it is absolutely fair that some of your tax dollars goes towards helping those that are contributing to this. Of course, if we bred like north africans, there would be a different story, but we dont and this is where we stand. Parents still bear by far and large the cost of their offspring, but society in general kicks in a little as well.

We have more than enough people for nursing, defence, police and other physical jobs. Most of our economy is dedicated to provided services that most people would consider some form of luxury. We are not about to run out of people. YOu can't get more water, more food from the ground or fewer greenhouse emissions by putting in more people.

Freediver,
"We have more than enough people for nursing, defence, police and other physical jobs"

I don't know if it's just a country town thing but we have a chronic shortage of Nurses. My mother in her sixties works a few shifts a week to help out. And thats now.
As our population ages the demographics change and there will be an imbalance resulting in shortages of young people for such jobs. That's where immigration and our own birthrate rate become important.
It's one thing to want a lower population in Australia, it's another thing to look after our current population as we age. Long term planning is required.

Even though older people are very capable they will wish to retire too, particularly from physically demanding work.

The current shortage of nurses has nothing to do with a shortage of people. Our current birth rate combined with net immigration is well above what is needed to keep the population going up. The population is still increasing. Remember, if there are more people, you just need even more nurses, and more of everyone else. It doesn't actually solve any problems, it just makes them worse.

feeddriver

Thats right and I cant think of a less responsible way to have a kid.
Using a credit card to buy prams or whatever. I think the real problem was set in stone when we were too kind with welfare.
You can see the attitude of some girls is I am having a baby. I am having a baby. The Government should pay the Government should pay.\
The Government dear are just the other people.
We have to stop giving to people who clearly cant afford to have children
We have to stop this. We are encouraning these young ones to expect to be supported.
In this day nobody need to have kids unless they are well and truely planned.
Get a job and save. Meet a man and get engaged. Save both of you to get a house. Get married and both work and save. Stay away from credit cards. If you cant afford something go without. Have the baby when you can afford it.
Dont have a baby outside marraige because kids need both mum and dad.
The Government ought not be giving money to single young girls for something that is clearly meant to be for a happily married couple.

Just wondering actually why the Churches are not screaming their little heads off.
Where are all the good Church leaders gone. Family first Steve feilding and Kevin Rudd unclue bill Tony Abbott Peter C
To mention a few.

I also tend to think the money is irresponsible and set up to win votes.
I would rather see 3 or 4 grand go into the elderlies bank account each christmass.
Has anybody ever stopped to think how those poor darlings get through Christmass.
How about it Peter?