I watched the "Insiders," program on the ABC on
Sunday 13th April 2014. They gave an excellent coverage
of the PM's recent trips to Japan, South Korea, and
China. The panel was unanimous in their praise of how
well our PM has handled himself overseas. I must admit
I have to agree. He performed extremely well - maintaining
exactly the right stance. Yet, according to an article
in the Sydney Morning Herald - the polls do not reflect
the PM's popularity. Are people simply disenchanted with
political parties, or is the article correct that people
really don't like what the government is doing? And, how much can we really rely on the polls?

Here's the article:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-slumps-in-polls-despite-best-week-yet-20140413-zqu9c.html

Hi Foxy,

I don’t know the answer as to why some polls don’t reflect voter sentiment. I can say that I was contacted by “Reachtel” two days ago and found that I could not answer many of the questions honestly.

The questions were either loaded, closed, assumptions or “when did you top beating your wife” type questions. Very disappointing. Any results would certainly not reflect my sentiments.

If the rest of the polls are based on similar lines of questioning, then no wonder they are skewed.

I guess it depends on whether these are being used to generate pro or anti government sentiment. In the end it’s not about the answers, it’s about the questions.

I would say not ruling out raising the pension age to 70 and removing it from indexing might be a big factor, especially when greedy politicians are on indexed for life pensions.

Take one of the people who put the country in trouble on an over $200,000 per year indexed for life pension, that is criminal.

In the meantime you have a gutless Government scared to go after Google, Apple and the big banks and make them pay the tax on money they get from Australian consumers.

His only hope is people will forget by the time the next election comes.

Foxy dear......regardless of which party you follow, the contributors to OLO have an inkling of what is happening with our governance....whether they agree with it or revile against it....they have a clue.

The other 98% are clueless..... and it is not a negative attribute. We contributors to OLO are told of the dismal decisions, the corrupt practices, the waste of taxes, and the greed that breeds ongoing corruption on a post by post basis. Stuff I would rather not know about....but must.

Re the poles....with the 98% it comes down to “I have always voted for them"....or “I can’t stand the other bloke ....or woman.” The split between Labor and the Coalition has always been slim. But from the outcome of the last election we see that disastrously poor management and failed policy is accepted...but an open boarder bringing the most alien of cultures to our shores will move the masses.

Abbott is not photogenic, he’s not a statuesque character so even if he saved little Mary from a fire 5 days a week the polls would reflect negatively. As you know I don’t support either party’s policies or principals....but if there were degrees of honesty and propriety Abbott wins over any of the past Labor leaders going back to Beasley.

Sonofgloin, I doubt that it is Abbott's physical attributes, or lack of them, that is negatively affecting him in the polls.
If that were the case, I can't see how any of the many previous PM's fared any better!

I think one of the problems for Tony is that most of his pre-election fans concentrated on his "I will stop the votes" slogan, while ignoring his very generous paid parental leave scheme......until now.
Now they are worried.

Foxy,

Because it's finally dawning on many of those who voted for his shonky govt that its leader is a lying hound.

"Our Pledge
No cuts to Education, no cuts to Health, no changes to Pensions, no changes to GST, no cuts to ABC or SBS under a Govt I lead.
(signed): Tony Abbott"

Made a nice billboard.....

no.1 voters have realized he isn't looking after them only his rich buddies
no.2 overseas trade agreements so now $2 items in gift shops will cost us a dollar while we send the rest of our industry overseas
no.3 raise age pension when we have huge amounts of young people unemployed DERR of course is so much better to pay them the dole
no.4 Sell off more assets cut more revenue streams look at medibank private the bankers are falling over themselves looking for a bargain
Here is a few reasons

i don't mind tony..knowing his own party
would dump him in a second..IF HE WASN'T..as popular AS HE IS
[AND LETS FACE It both parties are equally on the nose..and of the passable leaders chosen from the HYDRA PARTY HEADS/HE STANDS ALONE.

BILL shorty..just CRINGES CONSTANTLY/Like HE HAS A gut-ache
CHRISTEENE emphasis HER WRINKLES BY CONSTANTLY[SOMEhow]..pursing up her whole face/..there IS A LOT OF Stress for her fronting the media

I MISS ELBO..HE WOULD BE BRINGING OUT THE BESt..in us ALL
[EVEN THOUGH I HATED HIM AS WHIP/as much as i hate the latest whipping boy]..BUT HATE IS TOO Strong A WORD...HOW DO I SAY ASHAmed/repulsed/sickened..in one word?

I HATE EXCLUSIVE FRANCHISE..wasn't really going to comment
but what i was going to write about../i got talked out of\BY THE EVENT
[see last post]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=0

Its my overflow for my wtF AM I DOING composition thread
for when post limits end my thought flows

hate poliTRICKS..AND WASnt going to say NUTHIN
AS HE REALLY WAS THE BEST CHOICE/oF the choices]..OF THAT TIME
ITS fUNNY really thats why he got the job off/the banker..MANY WOULD PREFER LEAD ALP..one of files IRONIES.

ANYHOw of the current CHOICES TONY IS DOING FINE
AT Least he didnt say china abducted the 20 scientists
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6304&page=0
/liKE ISRAEL WANTS HIM TO DO/THATS WHY CHINA WELCOMED HIM/

HE IS A BLOKES BLOKE/WHAT YA SEE YOU MOSTLY GET
he has been trained by woman too/he has THE OLD AUSSIE Spirit..of days gone buy/that we will miss when chRISTEENe IS PM AND BILL HER VIP 2ic]..NIL..[..next in line]..Sorry im seeinG BILL AS ANOTHER KIM BEAStLY/HE IS THERE TO HELP THE LIBS BY BEING A BAD Opposition...And as for clive 4 pm..NO THANKS..[MAYBE CLIVE FOR President?..but pm never.

plus he [tony]..isnt.[.OR RATHER/seems to NOT/be]..not proceeding with carbon taxation burdens..so OTHERS CAN BUILD PIPELINES/to china with our compulsory EXTRA CARBON TAX/WE WERE NEVER ever going to get..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16076&page=0

NO I WASNT Going to say it/but i dont mind tony..considering THE ALTERNATE CHOICES.

Thank You so much for all your comments thus far.
I regularly probably like so many voters watch the
various news programs, read the papers, read various
opinions, and try to make sense of our current
political scene. And I have to admit that at present
I am becoming more undecided about things. One minute
I'm sure of where I stand, then something happens, and
I change my mind. To me, Mr Abbott is an enigma. I can't
quite figure him out - I thought I had - but he keeps
surprising me. I am concerned about the recent development
of the suggestive changes to the pension. If this goes
ahead it will affect my mum very badly. She's barely keeping
her head above water now. But I suppose I should wait and
see whether these chnages are merely up for discussion at
present or whether they will really go ahead. There are
therefore a few concerns - and perhaps are people are feeling
the same way. The same goes for increasing the retirement
age to 70. That would be great I'm sure for those who want to
go on working for as long as they can - but what about those
who can't physically work - or those who try to get jobs
(workers in car manufacturing) who are over fifty - nobody
wants to hire them. Also what about taking jobs away from
young people. Many questions to be answered.

I guess we have to wait and see what develops next. And I
certainly don't have all the answers. Hence this discussion.
I'm hoping someone here on OLO can contribute to a more
in depth analysis (politics aside).

cont'd ...

I forgot to add that a PM's physical attributes don't
matter to me as much as his skills to do the job.
Skills such as initiative, leadership, drive,
negotiating ability, willingness to take risks,
and persuasiveness. I accept that changes have to be made
especially in the system of taxation, but I would like
to see this done in an even-handed manner. If we're going
to talk about the "Age of Entitlement" being over - this
should apply to everyone and not just the most vulnerable
in society.

foxie..ya cant take opinion..out/of poli-ticks..ouT OF POLY-TRICKS
its the winner take all....[full steam ahead...pause your dead]
eg..just a pHoto of some kids in water..AND YOUR POLITICO PENSION/...BEGINS ITS PAYOFF..

[PLUS THE BORED\BOARD SEATS/
FREE LUnching\/number crunching..

<<..recent development/of the suggestive changes..to the pension.>>

is sop[standard operating/pROCEEDURE]..talk up how bad its going to be/then ease back/its the game/but ALSO JOE IS HERE..for the LONG RUN
he will be pm when the chickenc come home/to ROOST

please see/the pension sysatem isnt equal/there are specIAL GOVT PEnsions/for special govt people based on their last pay check

the cheek
that must go..ONE GOVT ONE PENSION RATE FOR ALL PENSIONS
ONE PENSION leveling every govt payment/to a FLAT RATE
MEANS UNEMPLOYED GET 100 EXTRA/MARRIED GET THE SAME//ETC ETC

DAMM CAPS wont turn off..but mate one flat rate pension/thats it
take bac the public service slush dund pension..and to heck with public service pension.we are equally public servants/as we pay our taxes equitably/equal out the pension..WILL ONLY SEE THOSE GAMMING THE SYSTEM LOOSE..IM SURE YOUR MUM ISNT a millionare..oR A FORMER SECRETARY OF THE VIP SECRETARY GETTING THE SAME PENSION AS THE PM

regardless of who
one flat rate..[koe you wil be pm /great mate
dump the imf..i will make you KING OF THIS whole world

<<it will affect my mum very badly.>>
no..mATE THATS the spin
remember..the first big cut comes first term oR NOT AT ALL
KOE NEEDS TO COME OUT BIG..OR WE ARE all domed[how does a former pm need 'pension'?

<<..The same goes for increasing the retirement
age to 70. That would be great I'm sure for those who want to
go on working for as long as they can>>

YEAH LIKE MY MUM..VOLenteers/and still works in a pub
bUT SHE SAYS IT KEEPS HER ALIVE

GOVT GOT NO BUSINESS RATING at what age..we are ALL WORKED OUT
once ya backs gone you should receive the pension[no unemployment..just pensionsthen]..ONE GOVT BENEFIT..FLAT RATE
IF thats not good enough get a second job/if two jobs cant help you survive in comfort....then..WHAT IS LIFE about..reaLLY?

WHEN GOVT DECLARED WAR ON ME
I REFUSED TO GIVE THEM MY WAGE TAX
SO THEY TAXED MY smokes..so i grew my oWN
THEY POISEND THE PAPER/TO KILL THE TASTE/mandated poisoning my smokes/stealing my water power phone ban...taxing my spending forced consumerism..etc

..and then want A MULTI STAGE PENSION SYSTEM?

ALL PENSIONS IS 10 PERCENT THE BUDGET
there is no savings..THERE THAT CHANGE MUCH
BUT IF GOVT EXISTS ITS TO LEVEL Off the playing field...not loot and plUNDER OUR LAST SIN TAX PENNY

<<.but what about those
who can't physically work>>

FLAT RATE PENSION/TO get educated or healed

<<..nobody
wants to hire them.>>

FLAT RATE HEAL..OR LEARN..PENSION

<<..Also what about taking jobs away from
young people...>>

YOUNG PEOPLE SHOULD BE IN SCHOOL CATCHING UP..WHAT LIFE TAUGHT US
IN TWELVE YEARS SIMPLy cant be sqUEEZED INTO 12 YEARS.[THAt was fine for us/but look at all tHE EXTRA STUFF KIDS HAVE TO KNOW

CENTRALISE GOVT ARROUND SCHOOLS
SMALL SURVIVAL CENTERS THAT NEVER CLOSE
24/7 GOVT SERVICE

<<..Many questions to be..ASKED
but for lack of qUESTIONING NOTHING GETS answered.

Unemployment is guaranteed of running rampant. With the three car makers pulling out Vic is set to lose 100,000 jobs and the rest of au another 100,000 between the states. And leave a black hole of 40 billion $ in the economy. The latest study finds.
The libs so far have only done window dressing, the urgency has faded away, and now Hockey is going to create his own urgency. Abbott has demised all but one of his grand promises, and that is to give enormous amounts of welfare to the ones that don;t need it.
So far from this govt; what we have seen is changing situations to a more lib friendly environment

Polls are a hit and miss a the best of times, because it really relies on who the pollsters are targeting.

I say this because my brother was contacted once, Pre September election and, once he gave his age they hung up, as they were obviously targeting the younger voters.

Regarding the question of polls - I agree that these
should on the whole be taken with a pinch of salt.
It does depend
on the questions being asked. People will often
express opinions on subjects they know nothing about.
People also often give false information - and so on.
However, political parties do pay attention to the polls,
and we've seen leaders being replaced because of polls.
However, to totally ignore the climate in the country - would
be unwise.

I watched "Q and A," last night. It was quite interesting.
The panel this time was made up entirely of women - and
to me at least one of the most surprising panelists was the
Palmer United Party's MP from Tasmania. She was a delight.
Inexperienced - yes, but she spoke honestly - and was a
refreshing change from the usual Party rhetoric. She also
made it quite clear that they do have a majority in the
Senate - so it looks like there will be interesting times
ahead.

Lets not make excuses Butch. The situation is they are not seen as a good choice, 7 months and nothing but blame the other side. Because they don,t have a puppet senate, they say nothing.

Foxy,

I came away with a completely different impression of Jackie Lambie.

She was in totally out of her depth - and the only time her rhetoric seemed to coalesce was when she was spouting the cliched party line.

Her spiel on AGW was appalling. She knows next to nothing on the subject (as does her boss)and spoke like a 6 year-old on the subject.

All in all her appearance was full of vacuous blather although I'll award her some points for trying to appear knowledgeable on subjects on which she has scant knowledge.

God help us if someone like her has control of the Senate.

Foxy - Quote "I regularly probably like so many voters watch the various news programs, read the papers, read various opinions, and try to make sense of our current political scene."

Your comment explains why on nearly every issue you are at odds with the majority of people on this forum.

You have admitted you get your views from the MSM which are totally biased.

Time after time the MSM have been proven to just be the mouthpiece of the Government or controlling editors with an agenda that is at odds with what the majority of people on this planet would want.

Your views are influenced by the 1% elite through there propaganda arm the MSM.

Try using common sense how many times have you read something in the MSM that with the passage of time it turned out to be outright lies, does that not tell you something?

Dear Johan (OUG),

Thank You for your comments.

I wonder what would happen if the money currently
being spent on federal poverty programs were given
directly to the poor, instead of to federal and
state bureaucracies, would it raise the incomes
of all the poor above the poverty line, and
still leave a surplus of billions?

I suspect that the reason this is not done is a
peculiar belief that the poor are in poverty
because they are idle and prefer to live on "handouts."
This view seems to be held by quite a few people,
people who do not know poor people, have never tried to
raise a ramily on welfare payments, and have not the
vaguest idea what poverty is really like. Opinion
polls repeatedly show large sections of the population
favouring cuts to welfare spending or favouring plans
to "make welfare receipients go to work." These
attitudes bear little relationship to reality.
We're told regularly that welfare is a terrible burden
on the taxpayer - yet welfare actually represents only
a small percentage of the federal budget.

There are few complaints, however, about how this country
pays out more in "handouts" to the nonpoor than to the
poor - in all sorts of forms - ranging from federally
subsidized loans and grants, to hidden subsidies or
tax deductions. A large proportion of people in this
country receive such benefits in one form or another.
This fact escapes attention because these benefits
take the indirect form as mentioned earlier of hidden
subsidies or tax deductions rather than the direct form of
cash payments.

Therefore, I feel that whether we presderve, modify, or
change our current system is ultimately in the long-term
up to us.

But we need to be given the information so that we can make
informed choices. Therefore discussons on forums such as
this one are important. At least in my view.

the foxey loxey LOCKS OF FOXie scream freedom
[SORRY ABOUT THAT..IM LISTENING TO THE ALEX JONES INFOWARS LINK

HE JUST SAID A THROWAWAY LINE AT HIS TROOPS/that he sent off to war in the bundy farm thing[tHAT MSN NEVER TOLD YOU ABOUT/but was more important that hiGH NOON
http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3
ANYHOW THE DUDES HE SENT OFF TO PEACE
had beards..and i been thinking about let it grow[ie beards and sexy long hair..AS A SILENT 'OCCUPY'..MOVEMENT..[THAT IS HAPPENING..IN THE MEDIA AS WE ALL GET FURTHER DEpressed..we let it grow/but you got questions so i let that idea go

LOXEY-FOXY/SAid/quote..<<..federal poverty programs were given
directly to the poor,/..would it raise the incomes
of all the poor above the poverty line,.and.still leave a surplus of billions?>>

DEAR FOx..poverty prograwms hasvnt worked
they create deperndance..iE THEIR AFFECT IS NEGATIVE.[we know them by their fruits.

but as to the 2 de questIon..NO IT WOULDNT CHANGE ANYTHING
[IT SIMPLE sets the new low..IE THE MINIUMUM RENt is now that much more]

no THEY DONT NEED..THAT..[EXCEPT THE WAY KEVIN/DID..IN ONE BIG LUMP
LIKE WHEN RUSSIANS GOT SHARES]..THAT WAY ITS JUST A BIG ANOMALOUS JUMP/not a long term inflation affect THAT TRIGGERS HYPERINFLATION/THAT DOUBLES THE price of everything..boom..bust

and we are back where we cant afford a bear[se THE GERMAN REICHE/

<<..the poor are in poverty
because they are idle and prefer to live on "handouts.">>

sorry ..ITS BECAUSE EVERYTIME THE Worker gets a bit of the cream/shares the dream..the money supply speeds up/then dries up as we spend it...HOW TO EXPLain..but that you hear \bankers wars

ANYHOW IM RAMBLING
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hyperinflation+is+theft&i

<<Opinion..polls repeatedly show large sections of the population
favouring cuts to welfare spending>>

I FEEL DIVIDED ON THis..issue..[the trisls are to shutup the lobbY]
THE Sick should manage themselves[heere is the money..now you guys figure ouT HOW TO BEST CURE THE LOT OF YOU

EVEN PUTTING HEALING OUT FOR TENDER[LIKE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO INDIA/FOR healing at cheaper than hEALTH INSURANCE

WE DONT NEED BEUROCRATS/at all
JUST TREASURY AND TAX DEPT AUDITING..
THEN..we just need those needing the cure to figure out the best way to fix it..with tHE BUDGET THEY GOT

<<.. or favouring plans
to "make welfare receipients go to work.">>

slaVE LABOUR MEANS YA GET THE JUNK CONSUMABLES THAT CLUtter up our homes/its not livinbg[by this age we were meant to be working 8 HOURS PER DAY..INSTEAD WE MUST WORK 24/7

DO YOU RECAll 6 oclock closing..closed saterday arvo and sunday?..that waS THE GOOD TIMEs/where the living lived and the dead paid deaTH DUTIES..WHEN YOU BOUGHT A COAR/knowing it was half govt tax[ie once the rich alone paid consuption tyax..now we aLL DO

<<>.These
attitudes bear little relationship to reality.>>

i know..but i lived in the good old days
i saw how they killed it/by giving it into tax gree trusts and corpette PATENT/SELISTEN TOP THE TAPE

<<..We're told regularly that welfare is a terrible burden>>

and it is because its negaqtive vfruit
makes more pronlems than it cures..ITS MORE THAN A MERE BURDEN..IT HANDICAPS US INTO SLAVE LIKE OBEDIANCe/dependanCE..WATCHING SPORT WHILE ROME Burns

\<<on the taxpayer - yet welfare actually represents only
a small percentage of the federal budget.>>

ITS GOVTS only valid reason for being
to care for us when no one else giVES A DAMM

<<..There are few complaints, however, about how this country
pays out more in "handouts" to the nonpoor>>

THE MEGA ENTITLED/WANTING THE MONEY TO MAKE DYSTANIES By tyranies
alex talks of it today..we are looping histry..PLEASE TRY/TO LISTEN..

http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3

<<>.federally...subsidized loans and grants, to hidden subsidies or
tax deductions. A large proportion of people in this
country receive such benefits in one form or another.>>.

AND SO WE SHOULD
GOVT IS THERE TPO PAY FOR ANY GOOD IDEA/
[IF IT MAKES LIFE BETTER/FOR ALL..THATS WHY GOVT IS THERE

<<..This fact escapes attention because these benefits
take the indirect form as mentioned earlier of hidden
subsidies or tax deductions rather than the direct form of
cash payments.>>

GOVT SHOULD BE RUN OUT OF SChool/who pay for everything in its school district
THEY INMSURE AND UNDERWRITE EVERYONE WITHIN THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICT

they pay in cash[coin]..the only lawfu tender the bankers have nearly deflated out of existance/via fiat paper..but i talked of thIS WIKISEED WIKIgeld [sun trwaty thing often]

onwards

<<>.Therefore, I feel that whether we preserve, modify, or
change our current system is ultimately in the long-term
up to us.>>

only ID WE STAND TOGETHER
THEY KNOWCK US OFF ONE BY ONE[THERE IS A REAL Life histry lesson/repeating ITS ECHO THROUgh time

and this is keY[WORK With me]
http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3

<<..But we need to be given the information>>
we are the information..[in FORM..A NATION
GROW YOUR BEARD GROW YOUR LOCKS/THIS IS WHERE THE BUCK STOps
http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3

<<<.. so that we can make
informed choices. Therefore discussons on forums such as
this one are important. At least in my view.>>

absolutlyu..we are all in this together
any voice silenced is crinial
http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3

THE FOOT IS DOWN..WE STOOD UP..WHERE IS YOUR MEDIA
[JESUS SAID THE STARS OD SHARRON AND MEDIA MUST FALL
THEY LIED TO US DAME FOXEY/LOXey from loxley..

FRom j0hannine

Foxy, the polls do reflect the opinions of those polled but those
opinions are generated by government not achieving what is expected of it.
The problem is that all parties, ie including the greens and the PUP,
are devoted to economic growth.
Because it is unachievable they print money, as we did during the
Labour Government, or as we are about to do via an LNP government have
an austerity campaign.
Now I agree with an austerity campaign, but it not enable growth.
These two "drivers", pixel money and austerity are the two traditional
methods of stimulating an economy and economists have been very surprised that they no longer work.

As a result Abbott will suffer the fail syndrome and people seem to
sense that this failure will occur. They are making that judgement now
so early because they can see the writing on the wall, the motor
industry shut down, solid talk of pension reduction, one way or
another, ABC etc etc.

Until politicians recognise that "Business as Usual" is over, say it
publically themselves, and tell the public "this is how it is, live
with it" we will continue to swap pollies in vain.

ps, you are a librarian, I think, check if your library has
The End of Growth by Richard Heinberg. Many do so you should be able
to borrow from another Library.

I bet those polls weren't done outside a Uni campus. The Left is always doing polls amongst the not so intelligent & the outcome is always the same. Ever seen a Leftie write-up that says anything positive about the Coalition ?

as for
No cuts to Education, no cuts to Health, no changes to Pensions, no changes to GST, no cuts to ABC or SBS under a Govt I lead.
(signed): Tony Abbott"

has any of this happened , because I haven't met anyone yet that's been affected by this.
If any cuts were made then it'd be cuts to waste but that's something the Left will never understand.

Individual, my post just before yours, has the implications that all
the cutbacks you listed will happen no matter who is in power because
it will be imposed by the economy whether the politicians want it or not.

Your scenario has not yet happened, but Abbott has been losing his grip on core promises since day one. Lets remember abbott had a very loose tongue before the election. Pledges in blood. It's no wonder he is battling to get any recognition, how do you recognise lies.

Dear Johan (OUG),

Again Thanks for your comments.

I agree that the so called "poverty programs,"
don't seem to be working as well as they should.
And not being knowledgeable in the field of
economics - I was thinking out loud.
Hopefully experts can come
up with some better solutions. We've got so many
experts in this country as well as advisors to the
governments we elect. You'd think that between them
all - a bipartisan approach could be developed that
could be supported by everyone and would benefit us
all. Wouldn't it be great if our governments were
made up of the very best people for each portfolio -
with no concerns about party affiliations and other
loyalties - but simply the best qualified people to
the best job. But I guess I'm being naive. How can we keep
politics out of politics?

Dear Bazz,

Thank You for the book and your comments.

I'm an avid reader - so I shall try to get hold of
a copy. Definitely.
This Easter break gives me enough time to at least
make a start with reading. I'll let you know how
I get on.

Dear Individual,

I think they're still at the "discussion stage," at present.
At least that's the impression I've received from listening
to the Coalition politicians. Hopefully, they are telling us
the truth. But who knows.

Abort is slumping in the polls because a portion of the community has woken up that the neoconlibs are owned by and act for big business.
The “little” people are of no consequence except as a source of labour as cheap as it can be and then as consumers and taxpayers.
The thing to take into account is that 50% of the proles are illiterate. This means that they cannot study what is happening in the world and have to take what is fed to them by the MSM.
A good example is the rubbish about the trade agreements he has just signed.
They will only bring a lower standard of living eventually with even more jobs being exported offshore.
It may increase the profits of the miners and agribusiness but the bulk of the population will be worse off with only lowtech work available.

Oh Foxy, Foxy, Foxy, how are we going to wean you off this dreadful propaganda machine you listen to/read. That one that keeps filling your pretty little head with all this rubbish.

Then those experts you hanker for, careful there too sweetie. If they get to open their mouths on that propaganda site, you know they are lefty academics, yet to learn how to change their own nappy. They won't be there if they have grown up enough to have their eyes open.

If it is on the ABC, you can bet individual was right. It was taken at the gate of the uni., used by the arts faculty, just after one of those academics had given them an hours harangue on how dreadful is Tony.

Onto things much more important, how is that heart going. Improving I hope.

Robert Le Page>>Abort is slumping in the polls because a portion of the community has woken up that the neoconlibs are owned by and act for big business.<<

Rob to be fair and factual...our Commonwealth bank was sold off by the Labor Party....Every State Bank we had was sold off by Labor or as in the SA bank, bankrupted by the Labor Party. The major shareholders of all those sold off banks are other non Australian banks and financial institutions.....

The BER program that saw us paying three...four...or five times the going rate for the work was not due to overcharging by the tradies who carried out the work...big business construction companies and State Labor governments (who were all broke) got the two three four and five...as I said the tradies got the industry screw you rate.

Nah mate the solicitors and union supremo’s that fill the ranks of the political wing are every bit as cosy with the bankers and multinationals as you quite rightly accuse the Coalition as being......

Hi there...

I'm really confused ? At every turn we hear how bad, even iniquitous Tony Abbott is ? How every promise he made prior to the general election, has or will be broken ?

Yet when we look to the other major party, Labour, we see experiential evidence of six years of unfettered spending, that's left us in a mountain of debt ? Incidences of misfeasance, disunity and even criminality, both at State and Federal level ?

Let us say for a moment, that both commentaries are correct ? Then who should we now entrust with the reins, to try and govern this magnificent nation of ours ? Surely not the Greens, with their odd, oligarchy style of governing, and their ever present narcissistic attitude that they alone, rule the Senate ! Oh no, PLEASE not the Greens ?

Foxy>> . Hopefully, they are telling us
the truth. But who knows.<<

There is a diminishing value to what the current crop of non representative swill utter.
Foxy my Kwan Yin I don’t believe that the old “all politicians are liars” sentiment was as strong in pre 1980’s Australia, a time when the American electorate was recognizing that their politicians were and are self serving say anything liars.

I think we as a whole believe pollies are less honest than 30 years ago. I will have a look for any Aussie polls on pollies credibility, interesting....Foxy I deem the defections from the majors to the minors by the electorate is a reflection of this overall mistrust of pledges....they’re all liars is the sentiment....we are like Diogenes searching around in the dark for an honest man...... so we gravitate to the smaller less entangled groups....single issue politics.

Dear Hassie,

You're such a tease.
You know darn well that I don't buy into
propaganda which ever side of politics it
comes from. Like many people I utilise a wide
variety of sources - and make up my mind as to
what makes sense to me. My dad taught me to question
everything - and that's something I try to do.

As for my health? Well you'll be sorry you asked me
that question. I'm having a "Review Colonoscopy"
in early May, and then a repeat of the procedure
I had done on my heart last March. I've been told
that sometimes it takes two procedures to succeed
with the Catheter Ablations for Atrial Fibrillation.
Fingers crossed that this one will work for me.
How are you doing? Is your health OK?

Dear SOG,

Thank You for your comments.

It's interesting the mixed views that I'm getting from
people in this discussion. I have to admit that
listening to the news - there are many things that concern
me. Including the cut backs to the CSIRO. I would have
thought that investing in scientific research and new
technologies, as well as in education would ensure a
brighter future for this country. Where will our future
jobs come from without this investment? And will we be
taken seriously if we can't compete on a global level?
We need to look at new ways of doing things, and not
keep doing what we've been doing thus far. Otherwise
we'll end up with the same results we've had. Things do have
to change - yes, but for the better, not the worse.

Sonofgloin; I agree.
The Labor party is every bit as bad as the neoconlibs but they do not do it as well.
They are supposed to be a party for the workers but have totally changed direction on this and sold out to the big end of town.
I agree that Labor have been in the big sell off and will again if they get back in.
The point you make about solicitors and union leaders being cozy with big banks is true BUT they are not actually in power right now.
Abort is.
The only party with integrity was the Greens.
They sold themselves to labor in Tassie and are now paying for it.
I just hope that some of the newer ones hold on to their outrage and do not get corrupted.

0 sung wu/quote..<<..Yet when we look to the other major party, Labour, we see experiential evidence of six years of unfettered spending, that's left us in a mountain of debt ?>>

WE WENT through much pain..as we sold off telstra
to payoff the debt..[we ammoung the few fina\lly cleared the debt tOP THE FEDERAL RESERVE/WE COULD HAVE TAKEN BACK THE BANK/CAUSE THE DEBT we owed them was payed off

WE COULD NOW BE UCJH LIKE CHANA Or russia [govt minTING /PRINTING ITS OWN MONEY/BUT FOOLS HAVE FORGOTTEN..THE TRICKS

bit gpbally the feds have been mONEY PRINTING
BUT THATS IS ODIOUS DEBT..[crIMINAL DEBT DONE BY ACT OF TREASON/BY THE BANKERS DESPRATLY DRAINING THE PEOPLE DRY..UNDER TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEBT

<<.. Incidences of misfeasance, disunity and even criminality, both at State and Federal level>>

absolutly..but how will that end?
the end has already begun..and the army didnt fire on the yanies
http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3

<<.Let us say for a moment, that both commentaries are correct ? Then who should we now entrust with the reins, to try and govern this magnificent nation of ours>>

SMALL GOVT..COUNCIL LEVEL SCHOOL Districts apart from pensions DEFENSE EDUCATION AND HEALTH..PLUS MINT/NOT PRINT\Ting branch treasury etc

ie get rid of STATES..HAVE GOVT AT SCHOOL DISTRICT SIZE
basic flat rate GOVT pension..ONE SET RATE FOR All govt payments.

minsters who AUDIT AND OVERSEE THEIR Portfolio duties
on the peoples BEHALF NOT SPECIAL INTERESTS/or business
we simply need minsters over seeing THE PUBLIC SERVICE..NOT THE PUBLIC SERVICE RUNNING THE MINSTER AROUND

SMALL GOVT SO WE GOT No mr too big too fail
MANY SMALL FISH..NO HUGE ONES/RUN UNDER HRH A GG IN EVERY SCHOOL
ans army air force old people kids health education.all govt need 24/7 at schools

it began HERE
http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3
NEXT BADgery creek?..how badly will govt react?

cont'd ...

I agree with you SOG - that some people are turning
away from the major parties. Look at the Palmer
United Party - who by all appearances look like
being a force to be reckoned with in the Senate.
Of course how long they will last in politics remains
to be seen. I feel that a great deal depends on what
the government will present in the May budget and how
they will explain things. Also it depends how people
will be affected by all these actions prior to the
next election. Voters are beginning to demand answers
and if they're not going to be taken seriously - that
would not be wise, as I've stated previously.

People will accept many changes - but it is the responsibility
of governments to provide people with the information they
need to make informed choices. Taking voters for mugs -
lying, and not explaining does not serve any one well.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I think that people are simply wanting to be told the truth
about things and have things explained to them. People are
sick and tired of politicians playing the "blame-game,"
continually. As if that excuses things. It doesn't.
People want to know what's going to be happening next,
and why. And if they see an inbalance in the way things
are being chartered - they are concerned. No politician
should take voters for granted or treat them as mugs.

@Foxy, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 4:17:51 PM

Just as a reality check, did you experience any of these concerns during the time of the previous government?

Maybe you should read the book Bazz recommended to see if the mass immigration Ponzi Scheme is actually adding to the problems Rudd and others claimed it would solve, and if the growthism in the victim industry is sustainable.

However I do agree that LNP governments are inclined to take the route of general 'remedy', which affects all recipients. However that is because any crack-down on those massive victim industries kicked off by Whitlam will result in immediate embarrassing blow-back from the very skilled (publicly funded) lobbyists of the said victim industries. Tony Jones and his his hysterical, 'progressive' Q&A audiences would be 'gutted' of course and the keyboards of his titterarty would run hot.

It is entirely up to you whether you put those over-stuffed (with taxpayers' money) victim industries first -before aged care as a topical example- but it would be ingenuous of you if you use the aged pensioners as the Trojan Horse to prop up the victim industry.

If you are as worried about your mother (age pensioner) as you say you are, why no concerns about age pensioners before now? It has been said many times before that the government itself has no money. All that it has comes from taxpayers and the bucket is limited. Blame for 'middle income' welfare recipients is just finding a convenient whipping boy. As Bazz says, the outcome is inevitable. Even if one takes that book a bit lightly, there is enough truth in it to raise questions.

otb,

I have always been concerned about many issues
regardless of which government was in power,
as my posting record proves,
and especially about our elderly.

I know, and isn't it fabulous?

@Foxy, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 6:43:04 PM

Got to protect that victimhood, eh Foxy? Your 'mum' can wait. Meanwhile just wheel the aged around on a cart as your Trojan Horse.

Dear OTB,

Mate, look at your last couple of posts, you're blathering young fella, stream of consciousness stuff, 'victim industries', 'victim industry' victimhood'; 6 references in the space of two posts. It is almost Tourettes.

This is a discussion forum not a place to vomit up repetitive hairballs. Anyway what of earth are 'victim industries'? Or shouldn't I ask?

Dear foxy,

The surprising figure is the Greens sky rocketing to 17% but Abbott's decline seems to be in keeping with the vibe I am getting from those in my extended family and in-laws. They are having trouble taking him seriously. Early after the election it the general reaction to some of the things he was coming out with was to give a rye smile and comment 'Well that's Tony'. Now the humour has dissipated and groans seem to be the new default.

The 'sir/dame' response was telling. One didn't mind it but all the others were really scathing especially those in Tony's corner. The line 'Australia isn't a place where we should be calling anyone sir' was put with vigour. This really become part of our culture with its roots in our digger's thumbing their noses at stratified English class system and hereditary titles. Tony's turfing what these guys felt was part of their Australian identity bit deeper than I thought it might.

Oh interesting times.

otb,

"Got to protect that victimhood, eh Foxy? Your 'mum' can wait. Meanwhile just wheel the aged around on a cart as your Trojan Horse."

"If you are as worried about your mother (age pensioner) as you say you are, why no concerns about age pensioners before now? It has been said many times before that the government itself has no money. All that it has comes from taxpayers and the bucket is limited. Blame for 'middle income' welfare recipients is just finding a convenient whipping boy. "

It was Howard who ramped up middle-class welfare, employing the much used term "battlers", if you remember - and plenty of money in tax breaks are funnelled to the already wealthy.

No government has had the temerity to put the boot into aged pensioners, and now Hockey having softened up the electorate with his tales of fiction, feels the time is ripe. He's a nutter of course, because those pensioners do have voting clout.

So your "victim waffle" is just that, otb - and welfare should go to those who are truly in need, not to prop up those who don't "need" it.

The pensioners are "victims" of a rabid govt whose members lie as easily as they breathe.

What was that pledge Tony Abbott signed while conning his way into office..."No changes to the pension."

Well, hohohoho....

Hi there FOXY...

I'm still somewhat confused, who exactly is NOT telling us the truth ? And what 'truth' aren't we being told, and why ? I think we're all painfully aware that rarely do any of our politicians give us the truth ? They believe we simply can't handle the truth I suppose ? According to Jack Nicholson Esq ?

On immigration alone, we all must admit, the LNP HAVE managed to slow the inundation of boats marginally ? Whether or not we all agree with the policy, it was the majority of Aussies voters who wished the boats to be stopped, as evidenced by the result of the general election ?

Surely we've got to give them a go, don't you think ? Or is Tony ABBOTT so bad, so evil, he doesn't deserve even a chance ?

o sung wu,

If there appeared to be a skerrick of integrity in this govt, I'd hold fire...but, really...

So far they've done nothing but soften us up.

Here's what Abbott pledged over and over again in the lead up to the election seven months ago -

"Our Pledge
No cuts to Education, no cuts to Health, no changes to Pensions, no changes to GST, no cuts to ABC or SBS under a Govt I lead.
(signed): Tony Abbott"

No sooner had they won govt than Pyne's so-called Education "unity ticket" was exposed as a lie. Surcharges were being mooted for doctor's visits. Cuts to the ABC are on the cards and pensioners are being softened up and targeted.

The unmasking of the lies began almost immediately...and Abbott and his cronies are shameless about it.

He said "We will keep the commitments we made - not the one's people thought we made"

Hello?

How does that sort of rhetoric sit with you?

In addition, Bronwyn Bishop, has displayed the utmost bias in her role as Speaker. She's been simply breathtaking in her partisanship in that role.

So forgive us if we find this govt to be diabolical. When you have a situation where your pollies don't even pretend to care whether you note their lies, then you've got a problem.

He said again today that his govt has learned that you can't say one thing before an election and do another after.

He said that today with a straight face.

Psychopathic.

same culprits who have been demonstrating hatred for Abbott for about 5 years. Quite amusing really. I thought Abbottphobia might decrease. Seems like the only way for that to happen is cut the funding for the national broadcasters. Hopefully he has the guts to do so.

I'm always phobic about deceptive pollies who can't speak without mouthing slogans, who are shifty and lie through their teeth - and who are accompanied at all times by their leopard print-clad puppet master.

But perhaps he'll turn over a new leaf somewhere down the track and I'll be able to kick my Abbottophobia.

Not so sure about my runnerphobia...

@P'rot

<<But perhaps ... I'll be able to kick my Abbottophobia.
Not so sure about my runnerphobia...>>

But what about your infatuation with Craig Thompson ...gotten over that yet?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-18/craig-thomson-verdict/5266468

Good Morning People,

Thank You so much for your comments and
expressed concerns. I Thank you for the civility
of most of your posts - and even though some of us
may not always agree in these discussions, I feel
that we can all learn from each other. What I do find
disturbing is the constant persistent personal attacks
on me - no matter what discussion I go into,
as displayed by one particular poster - who as SteelReduc
and others have pointed out many times - obviously does not
feel bad about being a jerk to me. He'll make accusations
of sledging, of telling us to to get back to the topic -

of victimhood, and all sorts of things,
yet he himself does not behave as a decent human being -
and yet he still expects people (me in particular) to continue
to interact with him. That to me smacks of an unhinged person.
I have had enough, (putting it mildly). And when he brings my
mum into it - he's crossed the line.

I started this discussion in good faith. Wishing to have a
discussion on the changess that have taken place and
the things currently being suggested - since the
current government came into power. I felt that it was
important on a forum such as this one of social and political
debate to try to analyse the concerns that many people are
currently feeling - as the polls indicate.

My supposed lack of concern for the elderly?
And, this accusation comes after the many years that I have spent looking after
my mother-in-law, who suffered from alzheimers (passed away
recently) which I have shared with posters on this forum,
and finally had to be placed into a nursing home.
And now - my own mother who suffers from dementia and who I love
dearly. Her well-being being a major, major concern to me.
The "Trojan Horse" and cart reference to her - when she can barely
walk - made me cry last night.

Anyway, enough said. Bullies are always cowards. Taking
civility as a weakness.

cont'd ...

I've come across an article in the Economist.

As SteeleRedux pointed out - interesting times ahead.
Interesting times indeed. The article points out that
questions do need to be asked. Why has a
government that won such a comfortable victory over an
unpopular Labor government, now within such a short time
has had such a shift in its popularity? Apparently no Prime
Minister in memory has fallen so quickly from voter's grace.

John Stirton of Nielsen polling has stated that in 40 years
of polling his firm has never seen a swing of such
magnitude against a new adminsistration. We're told -
governments are usually basked in polling honeymoons of up
to two years. This time the post-election swing is against it.

John Fahey, a finance minister in the former Coalition government
under John Howard says that Mr Abbott was "not known for his
judgement," then, and has not taken his "best team into
government now."

I don't feel that any of the critics of Mr Abbott loathe or
hate him. They are merely
questioning the decisions he's making and the direction he
appears to want to take the country.

The only noise that comes from Abbott is blunder. Anything that makes sense did not come from Abbott, someone has written it down for him.
Every slogan was lies,lies and more lies. This mob could break every record ever implemented.
Belly aching Joe softening up pensioners, sniggering all the time.
Cuts to ABC, I don't know how that is going to affect news reporting, i think Runner is going to be disappointed.
Work Choices has been sedated and about to come around. Have they really thought about the consequences.
NBN raped, and going ahead before any proper costing' or benefits. exact same as Turnbull accused labor of doing.
They are in a wholesale jumble.

SPQR,

Yes, indeed...

I was in favour of the justice system.....which appears to have worked.

It's a shame certain rorters in the LNP and elsewhere won't get a similar day in court - thanks to the Minchin Protocol.

............

Foxy,

"The "Trojan Horse" and cart reference to her - when she can barely
walk - made me cry last night."

Yes, otb appears to harbour a morbid fascination in personalising his invective and attacking you, using your family history as a base for his attacks.

(Don't shed a tear at such unkindness...your sympathies should go to the one who feels he has to stoop so low to make an argument)

Barry O'Farrell is resigning - talking of leaders on the nose...

Dear Poirot,

Thank You for your words of support.

I guess on public forums there will always be a
never ending supply of jerks that come and go.

As for Joe Hockey's concerns about the aged pension?
Experts tell us that we have one of the most sustainable
public pensions in the Western World. Apparently Australia's
aged pension costs us just 3.5 per cent of the Gross
Domestic Product which is the second lowest in the entire
OCED. Only Korea is stingier. And cuts to helath, education,
and science (CSIRO) which appear to be prominent targets.
Big cuts to CSIRO. Are not wise. The really big bikkies
in investing in scientific research are in the benefits.

Maybe we need go back to scratch Seems like its not only Abbott and crew on the nose but most politicians,Maybe redefine a politicians job Reduced money and entitlements for a start current system seems to encourage the greedy only,An over-site comity they report to lie detector tests drug /alcohol testing , maybe a performance report each 6 months KPI. With the focus on whats good for Australia not just a few.
I think we can all say the current system is broken do we try patch it or start again Your thoughts

Dear Aussieboy,

The current system does appear to be broken.
People are not too thrilled with either of the
major parties - as the polls indicate. That's
why alternatives like the Greens and Palmer United
are getting attention and their support is
increasing. I'd say that it is time the National
Party took a good long look at what worthwhile
"benefits" are there for them to continue as a
Coalition with the Libs. The Libs would not survive
without the National Party. Yes, it is time for us
to definitely start again. Party loyalties, factions,
greed, corruption, lies - we don't need the
continuation of this.

America has a Presidential system whether the people
elect the leader. The leader appoints his people
and he has to work with all parties in government.
A system similar to something like that may be a
good change for this country. Because it is obvious
that our current system is antiquated and a left-over
from Colonial Times.

If you take big corporations, international companies,
they're not run by a rabble of adverse thinking
individuals but a united management group on behalf of
shareholders and in the interests of the company well-being.
If they don't do a good job, they are replaced. They don't
have the burden of political in-fighting. We don't need
seat-warmers, hacks, careerists, adventurers.
Who we need are people who want to make a difference, a
contribution - people who are agents of liberal change -
and care about all Australians, not just a select few.

For the People by the People not like our old-boys club For the Party to Feather our own nests
Yea good theory But I'm fairly sure It doesn't work to well either and America is one place I personally wouldn't look-up to, They seem to have alot of the problems we do I guess this is maybe we have followed their lead for many years. Both systems seem to encourage Rich get richer poor get poorer,We can't have governments that put people out of work then blame those people for being out of work

Dear Aussieboy,

You are right -
division and instability spell political death.
Focus should be on public need.

I've been listening to the news of Barry O'Farrell's
resignation as Premier of NSW - for what to me seems
like such a trivial reason. I've always admired
the Premier and thought he was a decent politician.
Nothing to date has made me change my mind. But who
knows what really goes on behind the scenes in politics.
Why did the previous Victorian Premier (Liberal) Ted
Bailleue - resign?
(Or was he pushed out). Again, questions need to be asked.

DEAR AUSSIE BOY..mate..the real problem is the public service
their the ones who know the rules/theiR THE ONES THAT REALLY RUN Hings
we just elect the next ggggrrrrub public servants get tO CORRUPT.

GOVT IS TOO HARD FOR amateurs..a good cop SO TO SPEAK IS SMOTHERED UNDER PAPER/..OR YOu..cAN LET US THINk.. for you..DO AS YOUR TOLD.

you cant pick sport people ACCOUNTANTS BY Public opinion
how absurd we elect our elect via a system..only the public SERVICE CAN RUN/...FOR ITS OWN OL MATES CLUB..NOT OURS..ONE DAY WE SHALL SEE EVEN THE POLL LS ARE Controlled by unseen hands each feathering their..OWN nest UNDER THE BRAND PUBLIC SERVICE.

AS A COLONY
ALL WE NEED IS AN AUDITOR General
over seeing minsters/overseeing/auditing GOVT DEPTS..NOT MATEs/serving mates

one Governor appointed to serve hrh common wealth/us herr people heR LANDS..and an armed force..TO CHECK THE MUSTER....to audit the books of all..including incorporated/LIT..INC..IE person/trusts..under LICENCE TO THE STATE.

@Foxy, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 8:40:29 AM

You just don't like your world view and opinions being questioned. You want your views to always prevail.

As many others have said before, you just broken record, divert or otherwise blow-off any questions, and you are not averse to ad hominem as you have demonstrated. Then there are the walk-offs with attempts to close down any thread where you are not getting your own way. It is the easiest way of diverting and knee-capping a questioner isn't it? The bonus is that they are often unlikely to bother again.

Here you go, a link for you,
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-games-that-emotionally-manipulative-female-bullies-play

You have done well to get me to again break my own rule of not responding to personal attacks. However it is back to the subject, and as I often plead, what about some real answers to questions?

Yea about Barry Mr Abbott is calling him honorable, He sure was honorably caught with his finger in the pie

DEAR FOXEY/QUOTE.<<>.I've been listening to the news of Barry O'Farrell's
resignation as Premier of NSW - for what to me seems
like such a trivial reason.>>

IT MAY WELL BE/when the public service want you gone..you go

its just how it goes
thinG IS HE LIED/BUT MATE HES ON THE OTHER SIDE
NEXT THing bitchy will be calling you a liberal lover

<<.. I've always admired
the Premier and thought he was a decent politician.
Nothing to date has made me change my mind.>>

If its the public service GETTING RID OG A GOOD MAN
GOOD AND TRUE NEED DEFEND HIM

IF BITCHY AND YOU BOTH SAY THE SAME THING

WE need get the public servants
who protect too many real criminals but why over a bottle of booze..so soon?

yeah it sounds suss

<<.. But who
knows what really goes on behind the scenes in politics.
Why did the previous Victorian Premier (Liberal) Ted
Bailleue - resign?
(Or was he pushed out). Again, questions need to be asked.>.

TOO RIGHT
BUT YOU WONT LIKE WHO ANSWERS
pr rather can we handle the truth..as the real questions
GET A TRUE REPLY//HOW WOULD WE know..we seen the carr diaries..mate they sell product theuy themselves dont believe in

party MEMBERSHIP IS TREASON
THE HEADS OF ANY MINISTERIAL AREA..must be chosen from the cream of that area/the HIGHEST HONOR IS TO MINSTER TO THE NEEDS OF THE QUEENS PEOPLE/

addressed to the devine buxomly Foxie locksly luxuriation lavisiousLY
FROM THE NONG.[SIr nong IF YOU PLEASE]..[SORRY 0L'B0Y THAT Was elders business.]

..JUST KIDING WE NEED THE KIDS TO TAKE Over
please guys take over cONTROL...NOWi

CTD

NOW barry ISNT GOING TO WELCOME CHARlies kid..and the next pope
BUT BACK TO..POST..HE WAS SET UP

BUT MOST GET SET UP FROM 'birth'
please see/this is from that..can we forgive barry/refuse to accept his resignation?

IMMEDIATELY?
BEFORE THE POPE COMES TO opra's house

i tried to make a new topic/to king george//how best to prepare him...for the future WE ARE MAKING FOR OUR KIDS...

ODE TO THE GOOD KING GEORGE..LONG MAy be reign

let me say again
long may be reign
the sooner he begin..the longer it be

god bless those wgo see the trUTH AND SET US FREE

WE ARE UNDER TERNS OF BANKRUPTCY..SEE
BUT..WHATS IT Called..the king in waiting..to come of age to sacceot his RIGHTFUL Inheritance

is to give us all our fathers inheritages
THE YOUNGEST christ-incarnate..POPE?
doth not the BIBLE..say woman/..THAT children..shall lead us?

cannot the union..of the COMMONWEALTH-church/
AND THE..head-/*OF*\=STATE..under the head of innocence/
AND PURITY..OF..CHILD FORGIVENESS/LOGIC..guided by his babe peers?

sorry..iM SEEING A VISION..forming..the ultimate question..
what should..a FUTURE COMMON-Wealth/POPE..BE TAUGHT..?..BY WHO.?

what by who..of the *OTHER sacred HOLY TEXTS..underpinning the totality..of our common-wealth's spiritual BELIEFS..?

RECALL...HIS GRANDDAD/Philip..s a god

q;..what reading would you suggest our future pope read
before he becomes our common/wealth KING?

Thinking king
not thin-king?

WHAT THINGS.must a present day..[future]..king know?
WHAT Are..the present DAY RULERS..IGNORANT OF OR IGNORING?

[looks like my computer issues/just keEp growing.but really*
what truths certainties must a good king George ..be knowing.?

what SEEDS..TO AVOID SOWING?
tares weeds wheat GROWING?

IM Serious..what present..do you bring..?
to put before our newborn new age new ways of THINKING..baby-KING..?

THERE IS AN OFFER TO RESIGN
AND THERE IS THE ACCEPTANCE/OR REJECTION OF IT
IF THE LION AND THE LAMB Lie down together/it will be a..timely lesson to seT BEFORE OUR FUTURE KING...[when sir Humphrey says sIGN THIS I SIGNED..BUT IS IT ME OR SIR HUMPHREY WHO SHOULD RESIGN?

maxwell sILVER HAMMER come together
right now.LONG MAY WE SAY GOD SAVE OUR KING
FOR Nothing can save the public serVANTS SELF/service

Foxy:America has a Presidential system whether the people
elect the leader.

Not too sure about that. When you elect a President you get a politician.
As head of state, with power to dissolve parliament you need someone
as disconnected from politics as possible.

@Aussieboy, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 1:37:52 PM

Forgetting the comment on Abbott which is a needless distraction, the corridors of power in NSW need a good hose out.

The tangled web,

http://www.smh.com.au/national/libs-give-leading-fundraiser-water-board-role-20130301-2fbpi.html

Oh dear onthebeach,

Are you trying to claim victim status?

Lol.

The word delusional doesn't quite do it justice but okay, whatever floats your boat.

Although it does fit with a certain scenario. I get the impression that there might be a strong woman in your life, one who has produced within you feelings of resentment and powerlessness. Perhaps those emotions are now being expressed, through the supposedly safe portal of web anonymity, in your personal and constant haranguing of Foxy.

Could be time to dial it back.

Dear Aussieboy,

You are right, what an extraordinary performance by Abbott.

“He innocently and inadvertently mislead ICAC”, “taking the utterly honourable step of resigning as Premier”, “This is an honour and integrity at a very high level”, "We are seeing an act of integrity, an act of honour, the like of which we have rarely seen in Australian politics.", “I admire him tremendously for this”.

Where on earth is the honour and integrity of taking gifts for favours done then attempting to mislead the Commission with forceful statements of innocence? Abbott not only refuses to acknowledge any blame on the part of his 'friend' it is just 'unfortunate' that he got caught out.

It is very revealing about Abbott's standards of 'honour and integrity'. The only conclusion is they are very base indeed.

Oh they are a stinking carcass. At least in the Labour Party their leaders don't seem to fall as spectacularly.

SteeleRedux, "At least in the Labour Party .."

You are undeniably a true internet expert.

It's the true Abbott we've always known, the one who pulled $9500 from us for his book launch. Same standard being applied when it comes to his friends but not to unions as he spends 100 million of ours on a RC to embarrass them. Meanwhile while the big end of town gets limitless 457's as Aussies lose their jobs.

Abbott is morally bankrupt. I feel ill at the sight of him.

@Luciferase, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 3:43:09 PM

You would be a lot sicker if you were one of those lowly paid union members who have been rorted by their union bosses.

WHERE BARRY WENT that step too far
he reformed the public serviCE..[AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE KEPT THE DRESS]

OOPPS SORRY WHO KEPT THE RECIEPT

WHO GOT IT
Show us the reciept...WAS IT ONLY SUGNed what finger prints are on it

we dont want to loose a good guy
I REKON WE NEED HIT QANSA HARD [IE ASK Bob carr..who set THIS UP BOB?

WHO puts stuff to sign before you?

he was set up
clearly..now to get him BACK ON THE JOB
CUT PUBLIC SERVANTS AS THINGS gET SOLD

and get baCK ON WITH THE JOB
[I GOT NO PERSONAL OPINION ON HIM/BUT KNOW THAT RECIEPT WAS A SEWT UP

BY WHO/WHY..MORE Detail media

HEWSON HAS A GOOD IDEA ALL GIFTS TO ANY PUBLIC SERVANT GOES INTO A TRUst/that GETS AUCTIONED..EVERY YEAR ON GEORGES BIRTHDAY

LONG LIVE THE KING OF THE COMMON WEAL
POPE incarnate..whO FIGHTS FOR THE GOOd..of all gods great creation

THE SOONER HIS REIGN BEGINS
THE SOONER WE CAN BRING Peace on earth.

the camera is on the crown..as it rightly sHOULD BE
BUT I JUST HAD A VISION OF the royal parents going
THE ROYAL Equivalent..if 'backpacking'..[OR RUNNING AWAY/to show george his whole common wealth.

we watched a girl QUEEN..get deceived..by her advisers
hoW I WOULD LOVE TO SEE GEORGE..WATCHING MUMMU AND DADDY..be protectors..of these common lands..i would love to see treatry signed on behalf oF GEORGE..[RIGHT AT THE SPOT..HIS NAME SAKE USED TO STAND[the ate mural opposite THE FRONT Stairs of parlement HOUSE.

or maybe at the state stone[THE BIRTH PLACE OF EVE SO IM TOLD]..IN FRONT OF The new public servanTS HOUSE/PARLIAMENTARY..SHOULD RETURN TO THE OLD HOUSE.THE MUSEUM BE THE NEW ONE

BRING THESE ego hounds back to earth

ps the vision pf the murAL/WAS sung to me by george warumpi
they saw THE SENATE BECOME WOMAN'S BUSINESS AND THE HOUSE OF REPS MENS/THAT BETWEEN BOTH THEY oversee public services[IF MENS/WOMANS house agree its law]

the union into the common weal was signed spiritually ON THE YELlow square/in the mIDDLE BETWEEN THE PAW PRINT TRAILS EITHER SIDE
MATCHING THE SHIELD ON the white house..

BUT WHAT IS needs adults to give power back to the kids
what madE ME CRY..WAS THE SIGHT OF GEORGES FATHER TALKING TO purple steps/that to the cameras were empty/but i saw the spirits sitting there LISTENING[BET THE UK MEDIA MISSES THAT ONE

7 PURPLE STEPS WAS IT/FILLED WITH THE KINGS Defrocked by colonization[they numbers 144]..but at ooolaroo.there will be any more

IM PEVED ABOUT 3000 DOLLAR WHINE//BUT DONT LET BOBBY CALF off the hook

its funny this royal visit thing/nuthin on barry
but there was a promise BY THE REPORTER/THAT THEY WERE GOING BY SOME BLACKDUKKIE/BUT NOW THEY STANDING ON THE DECK OF WHAT THe yankies would call a boat

when i had images of they the new generation lEAVING JAMES BOND STYLE/TO LEAD FRom the front[or i even saw them on them WATER THINGIWS LIKE BIKES
EACH HOPPIng on one like a horse fighting it out begore their cheering son

SO I SUPOSE GEOGE Is on the boat
i was disappointed in the few people they talked too[three deep]
YET THE CROWD SHOTS SHOWED thousands/and that empty walk to THE BOAT
THE NARROW ENTRY TO THE COATHANGERS MATEI LIKE THE TRADEMAns entrance..where cars PARKED 'OUT THE BACK'

O\H GOOD THE ROTALS ARE GONE..who is affaral?..oH THE HUY THAT thought he could cut the pubLIC SERVICE
AND LET THAT MURDOC BUILD ANOTHER CASINO..[a clue?]..NEVER LIKED THAT YOUNG nedia 'ROYAl'..such a poor role model[has he got any kinds..at leasT HE WOULDNT HAVBVE SET UP this

how will dad report it
yeptoo many questuions

ANYHOW SKIP THE GENERATIONAl stuff we live to serve our kids
kids are king..we must serve aND PROTECT OUR KIDS/TEACH THEM

OH THE THREAD WAS REJECT
THATS Not how to start AQ THREAD

SO ANY ADVICE TO GEORGE..BY ME..IS DEAD

WE NEVER REALLY WENT OFF THE ROYALS/AT LEAST OFFAL HAS TIMe to expose the problem..or else CARR..AND WE KNOW TONY is watching/what better cure than aLL GIFT GET AUCTIONED ON PRINCE GEORGES BIRTH DAY

TO REMEMBER WHO WE ARE WORKING FOR..our kids kids kids
its about teaching our kids just who they are/why they are here and the stronger listening out for the cry of the weak..parents duty is teaching thE KIDS TO BE GREATER THAN WE WERE

otb,

"You have done well to get me to again break my own rule of not responding to personal attacks. However it is back to the subject, and as I often plead, what about some real answers to questions?"

Lol! to the max.

Don't ya love it when the bully's complain of being incited or bullied...it's a trait of theirs.

We could trawl through your invective to Foxy and produce post after post of unprovoked "personal attack".

When would you like me to start?

Just say the word...

Here's another interesting link about Barry O"Farrell:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/barry-ofarrell-resigns-after-being-caught-out-over-bottle-of-wine-20140416-36qpg.html

A commentator on ABC News 24 - stated that what
should concern all of us is that these sort of actions
from both sides of politics - get people mistrusting
our entire political system and national institutions.
Perhaps that's why even young people are flocking to
see the young Royals who arrived in Sydney today.
People may be yearning for some stability
that the Royals represent - being disappointed in
the mess we seem to be currently stuck in from both sides
of politics.

This from the web:

"I love to have a wine with Arfur
'n' I love to a glass with Bazz
Water Board deregulation
See the ICAC razzamataz
At Australian Water Holdings
The corruption there is great
And every crooked Liberal/Labor
Is Eddie Obeid's good mate."

I JUST SEEN THE NOTE
AND THE GUY THAT gave the bottle
the fat dude..dont look lIKE HE BUYS SINGLE BOTTLES OF ANYTHING

[I]WONDER WHO got the rest of the case}?

now that would reveal it was both parties
plus certain public servants/will theY GO THERE/...

/WHO KNOWS.
where are you belly?

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for that.

He was the one who came into my
discussion and instead of discussing the issues
attacked me personally, accused me
of "victimhood," made vile comments about my mother.
And he's the one now claiming "victim status."
You're right - chutzpah to the max!
You know the definition of chutzpah - don't you?
It's a person who murders their parents - then proceeds
to throw themselves on the mercy of the court because
they're an orphan. Lol!

Classic stuff!

SteeleRedux is right.
I also have suspected that there's a powerful, strong,
woman somewhere in his life that he fears -
so feels he can have his
revenge with the anonymity of this forum. For me -
he's crossed the line once too often this time.

Hi there Poirot...

Yes, yes I do accept that the moment a Party gets into government the Promises they made to us all during the election campaign start to vanish ? But to be very honest, aren't they all the same ? Didn't PM Gillard say there'd be no environmental impost on the Taxpayer, yet we're all paying this Carbon Tax ?

You see Poirot, whether a promise is either good or bad, it should be kept ! Otherwise the integrity of our politicians is absolutely shot to pieces ! I also accept you, and perhaps FOXY, are in the Labour camp, and I'm staunchly a conservative, thus a supporter of the LNP.

With B O T H Parties proven liars, what do we do ? Who can we, in good conscience, vote for ? If I were to continue to vote for the LNP, then by definition I'm supporting a thoroughly corrupt Party ? Whereas, if you and FOXY continue to vote Labour...well you see where I'm going with this logic ? Neither of us have a choice, we're both nullified or neutralizes or simply void. Thus corruption wins in this country.

o sung wu,

Surely it's a matter of degree...that this govt began unravelling their pledges almost as soon as they gained office is something to behold...and they show no sign of stopping...and they couldn't give two hoots whether or not we care.

Regarding Gillard and the carbon price...(because that's what it is)

Here's what she said:

“There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead, but let me be clear: I will be putting a price on carbon and I will move to an emissions trading scheme.”

You may be staunchly conservative...but this mob of Liberals is giving your party a bad name. They're extreme right-wing Tea Partiers who have lied and lied and only been in office 7 months.

I wish we had a decent LNP govt of integrity, not this bunch or warped deceivers. I'm with Malcolm Fraser who resigned from the Liberal Party saying he's till a Liberal, but the present govt isn't.

Still, some time to go...I think you'll see the folly of these pretenders as their tenure unfolds.

" Didn't PM Gillard say there'd be no environmental impost on the Taxpayer" Yeah she said there'd be carbon pricing though and we'd get compensated with income tax cuts to offset it.

Where are the qualifiers for Abbott's promises? His confected budgetary emergency isn't fooling anyone.

Lying aside, this corruption by O'Farrell (and Sinodinos) with Abbott's verbal prime-ministerial blessing curdles my blood. He was, still is, an unfit person for the role of PM, completely lacking in judgement in this circumstance and most other times he opens his mouth without a minder.

Abbott is an absolute disgrace but his legion of apologists here will find a silver lining in this latest sorry episode, of course.

Dear o sung wu,

Just jumping in to let you in on a few things.
Firstly I'm with Poirot on the current federal
government. They are not true Liberals.
I grew up in a Liberal-voting household. However
I agree with Malcolm Fraser - the current mob
do not represent true liberals.. Liberals have always been a
"broad-church." These current guys are conservatives -
who all have to toe the party line or they'll lose
their jobs. Tony Abbott and his mob are "all over the place,"
They don't follow Liberal principles. They follow -
"fear and reaction." It's no longer a Liberal Party
but a Conservative Party - with no policies of any
substance. How on earth can any thinking person take these
people seriously.

BTW - It may come as a shock to you but I don't vote for
any given party. I vote for policies that make sense
and people that I feel will do a good job.
BTW: - I've voted Liberal in my recent State elections -
simply because my State MP - is excellent and a hard worker,
and I like our State Premier. The same can't be said for
the Liberal Federal MPs.

I don't follow politics blindly.
My training has been to question everything - especially
politics. And this I do.

Lol!, Foxy....yes it would probably surprise a few here to know that I have voted for my state Liberal representative in the last two elections.(Because they think I'm completely one-eyed:)

That's exactly what I did.

Good evening to you both POIROT and FOXY...

Neither of you inspire much hope for the Party I've followed for half a century or so. Concerning Malcolm Fraser, you see I think he's been somewhat of a 'fifth columnist' toward the Party that handed him the Prime Ministership, that by convention confers a load of very generous benefits for the rest of his life ? I'm not speaking of his 'pension for life' either. Rather, the extremely generous benefits that goes with being a Prime Minister for a certain stipulated period ?

I mentioned in another thread, on a related topic, a couple of years ago, whereas I mentioned I was I/C of his close protection team, when he was in Sydney, and at that time he had a high 'threat assessment' on him and Tammy. By necessity it did involve me speaking with him on many occasions, concerning his daily activities and programme ?

I can only say truthfully, he was one of the most arrogant men I ever had to interact with, during these particular duties. Still, that has nothing to do with his ability to run the country though ?

I don't know. From a political sense, we're bereft of anyone with the intelligence, and more importantly, the integrity to run the country ? That thought alone does dampen any hope I might have held for a government that at the very least might 'try' to do the right and honourable thing, for just once I might hope ?

o sung wu,

I believe there is still room for optimism with the current Abbott government, as they steer a genuinely conservative course in developing long-term economic policy that is in the best interests of Australia and all Australians.
Abbott has put everything 'on the table' for review - as he forecast that he would - and rightly so, in the prevailing fiscal circumstances.

I have seen no evidence that this government has reduced committed funding for education, health or aged care, or funding for welfare or other social programs, but I give credit that they have indeed placed in question any future commitment to the substantially UNfunded largesse that Labor had forecast for the likes of Gonski, NDIS and NBN. To do otherwise would have been fiscally irresponsible indeed. These programs may yet be expanded, but within a responsible fiscal framework - as I hope we would all expect of any responsible government.

So many here are criticizing Abbott for what MAY BE, and that is pure speculation - if not outright fear mongering.

Abbott has not been able to save the auto industry - but that was probably writing on the wall, for all with eyes to see, given the state of the worldwide auto industry generally (and of our relatively uncompetitive labour market).
Abbott has however taken up the challenge of identifying and implementing alternatives to boost Australian industrial development - via trade deals with Japan, Korea and China, and with proposed development of a second major Sydney airport and related infrastructure development for western Sydney (amongst other infrastructure development proposals). These are constructive programs, unlike Labor's unfunded 'pie in the sky' social engineering and 'feel good' proposals.

Australia is far from being out of the woods as far as post-mining-boom prospects are concerned, but all should have to agree that positive development, that will provide ongoing jobs and bottom-line returns to the economy are what is needed, and not unfunded budget-defying Labor 'wish-lists'.

All I see in the posts of ALP supporters is evidence that Labor voters really are not up to thinking logically.

Answer the question Abbott, O'farrel is a corrupt person. just another feather in Abbott's arrows. Stumped by the media. Rotten to the core.
Logical thinking is not one of our fearless leaders qualities.

There are lemon faces because their cozy bunks on the guvvy gravy train are threatened and they might have to find some real work to do.

They are in a time warp. There is no way they can relate to the changes that have taken place in the private sector and must flow through to the public sphere. Somehow they believe they are insulated against change, no-one should ask what they are achieving or if it is worth doing and 'someone' can continue to pay for them.

It is a waste of time explaining that there just isn't the money to keep them.

Gillard and her Greens sidekicks were happy to step away from their mess. It was all becoming far too obvious.

Dear Saltpetre,

I think that people are voicing their concerns because
as we've seen in the past - when things are being
"suggested" for discussion, these things usually happen.
It's a political ploy.
A Commission of Audit has always been a political
tactic to not having to explaiin to voters the deep cuts
heading their way. We've seen this done by State Premiers.
You say that you haven't see any evidence of cuts thus far.
Try Googling the web on these issues. There's enough
information to be found.

That O'Farrell lied and Abbott's incredible knee-jerk response in support of him are the big stories. But why did he lie (he forgot? puleeze!)? How deep is the corruption?

I'm all for rooting out corruption everywhere but funding for the RC into unions should be diverted towards this as it is a far more serious matter.

C'mon Indy, runner, Shal et al, let's see you support your dear and glorious leader through this filth.

The first information to find is the terms of reference for the Commission of Audit.

http://www.ncoa.gov.au/docs/NCA_TERMS_OF_REFERENCE.pdf

Which bits do you dispute and why?

Are you objecting to content or process?

Luciferase,

Here for you is the terms of reference for the Royal Commission you are objecting to and you might like to point out where they are lacking or unfair.

https://www.pm.gov.au/media/2014-02-10/royal-commission-trade-union-governance-and-corruption

I've no problem with rooting out corruption but it's notable where the search is carried out. Where politicians are in cahoots with business is the place to start but, of course, the findings would not embarrass the opposition, now would they?

Is that your best shot at supporting Abbott in this? Are you too blind or incapable of calling this for what it is? It's an absolute outrage, that's what it is! An outrage!

Luciferase,

I can't see how a Royal Commission could ever be an outrage.

I would like to see more. They are no protection for the government proposing them you must realise. RCs go their own way, they cannot be controlled or influenced from the outside.

I'm not talking about the RC, I'm talking about Abbott's support of corruption in the NSW government with his unbelievable defense of O'Farrell.

It is OUTRAGEOUS!!

otb,

"I can't see how a Royal Commission could ever be an outrage."

Nice try, even though you must have realised that Luciferase was referring to Abbott's lauding of a man who had just resigned because of corruption.
(Noting that this moderate Liberal appears to have been set-up to fall to install a less moderate Liberal. Who organised the machinations to produce the note after O'Farrell stuck to the script with his "I don't remember" routine?)

I note also how outraged Abbott was yesterday when a female journalist actually had the temerity to ask a pointed question...how dare she not stick to script!

Yes a relevant question, but Abbott gave O'Farrel top marks and the man done no wrong.

Hi there SALTPETRE...

I suppose we shouldn't view everything in government so negatively, even though the latest reprehensible scandal to hit the Libs this time, ended in the resignation of the State Premier ?

I see many herein have cited that particular 'lapse of memory' by the former Premier as an example of corruption ? It certainly doesn't look too good I'll admit ? Corruption, I hardly think so. Certainly nothing as systemic as that which has already been disclosed by others, who've had to furnish evidence to the Commission ?

Still, if the former Premier was required to report the acceptance of a $3000 bottle of wine, well he should have done it, and not attempt to deny any knowledge of such a gift ?

o sung wu, I seem to recall you saying you were a copper at one time (?). If I am correct I can only say you must have been in the wrong business. You can't lie to a copper who's born to it, but O'Farrell has you rolling over to have your tummy scratched.

What O'Farrell did was corrupt and lying hints of greater corruption. You're treating him like a busted shop-lifter who swears he forgot he had stuff in his bag. I've more respect for the shop-lifter than grafters in high places.

Why did O'Farrell lie. Can't you feel it in your waters (Australian Water Holdings, that is), and, aren't you appalled at the support provided by the PM of Australia who should have upheld the standards his office with at least a "no Comment" or "let ICAC do its work"?

Further, Abbott has the chutzpah to bully the media against raising this issue. Has the status of the office of PM ever sunk this low?

PS Where's Shallow Minister on this.

Has he been away minding the PM in China and so busy putting out spot-fires since his return that he can't find time to put pen to blithely defending his glorious leader?

C'mon Shal, strut your stuff. It'll be a larf.

As a close follower of the goings on at the NSW ICAC, I can report that dear old Barry was set up for a fall by the ultra conservatives (dries) within the NSW Liberal Party. O'Farrell's first "sin" was his failure to disclose the $3k bottle of plonk from his good "mate" Nick (the creep) Di Girolamo. Having Di Girolamo as a friend, is like admitting the Small Pox Virus is your best mate. The plonk was ultimately paid for by the NSW tax payers through the AWH rip-off. Nick, being the civic minded citizen he is, casually mentions the "gift" to the ICAC, and true to form, like a dog with a bone, the ICAC calls dear old Barry in for a please explain. No problem for Barry, like so many before him, Barry will simply trot out the "Alzheimer's" excuse of I don't remember and at the end of the day it will be one's word against anothers, end of story, so thought Barry. Barry must have been very pleased with himself on Tuesday night, having just seen off the ICAC with a load of "can't remembers", well so he thought. Poor old Bazz still didn't realise he had been set up, it was all a ticking time bomb. At 9.17am Wednesday, the bomb went off. Nick (the creep) Di Girolamo, "suddenly" overnight had found a lovely hand written note from his nearest and dearest mate, Barry, thanking him for that yummy bottle of plonk, back in 2011. Naturally, being the civic minded citizen he is Nick had the note rushed straight down to the ICAC, and its goodnight Barry! And in march the Liberal "Dries" best boy the one and only, Mike Baired, another religious nutter!

PAuL/QuOTE..<<..Mike Baired, another religious nutter>..

not that i watch the thing..but yesterday HIS NAME WAS MENTIONED/ in connection the same lobby dude..[who must have bought a case/left a trail of all his betrayals]..its clear he is a major CRIMINAL/WHY HAVEN'T THEY done due diligence..if he corrupted a PREMIER/HE SURELY HAS CORRUPTED Many more.

how nutter RELIGIOUS IS HE/..NUTTER LIKE ZION END Timer?
or nutter LIKE HATING ABORTION..OR ISRAEL uber allis?
OR NUTTER as in quotes..in parrables..or goes to church

ALL RELIGIOSITY ISN'T JUST MAD NUTTERS Muttering
occasionally its only neutering..opposition OR WATERING YOUR SUPPORT BASE.

Paul,

Thanks for that...very clearly elucidated.

While on the subject of religious nutters.

Abbott, who only a month ago was doing a Peter and denying he had ever met Nick Di Girolamo, but now The Mad Monk is not so sure, maybe he has, but just like Barry, "Alzheimer's" is catching, Tony can't remember. For all we know, it may come to light that the Mad Monk and Di Girolamo spent a month together just last Christmas holidaying in Tahiti, but busy as he is, Tony might not remember,

Hi there LUCIFERASE...

Ok, I guess you're quite right ? Any activity that's prohibited, and that prohibition is either ignored or knowingly violated is corruption. I suppose in my rapidly advancing dotage, what I meant to say, there's corruption and there 'IS' systemic corruption, of a kind, that's been taken in ICAC evidence during the preceding month or so ? I was simply alluding to the degree or magnitude of that alleged subornation or incidence of criminality, that's all.

I note you're not particularly enamoured with the Prime Minster's overt support of Mr O'Farrell ? I don't share your view nor your opinion apropos either the PM's support, or the imputation you've placed on him, because of that support.

Obviously, Mr O'Farrell was the Liberal Premier, the PM is of course leader of the federal LNP, therefore the support given, would be perfectly natural and appropriate under the circumstances.

In answer to you question, I was a detective sergeant, serving over 32 years until my retirement.

o sung wu,

O'Farrell resigned ostensibly because it became obvious by the proof of the thank you note that he had mislead ICAC.

He had been "adamant" that there was no wine gift - and/or couldn't remember it.

They don't like it if they have evidence you've told fibs to ICAC.

His position was, therefore, untenable

That's why he resigned.

Have a look at Paul's post above...I think he's pretty well on the money.

I follow NSW politics very closely and why O'Farrell was brought down can be found in the following article. Its all about polls and wires, and Barry wasn't playing the game to some peoples satisfaction. Baird will do exactly what is required of him on privatization. The talk in Mac Street today was Barry was set up, by people in the Liberal Party and others.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/proceeds-barry-ofarrells-key-to-selling-network-sale-to-the-public-20140302-33u17.html

Good evening to you POIROT...

Thank you again for your thread. Yes indeed. Wherever one looks, there's deals, secret agreements, pay-backs, posturing, in fact everything is going on, all the while we the public are sublimely ignorant to everything that's occurring, blissfully believing that our well paid politicians are earnestly protecting our collective interests ?

I think much of what you say may well prove correct, there's been an effort to unseat Mr O'Farrell from his Premiership ? And to publically demolish his character, is a sure fire way to get rid of him ? There's no doubt in my mind, politics at all levels, is bereft of all moral accountability. But I again repeat, what do we do about it, other than vote for the opposition, and they're just as bad ?

Thanks again POIROT, I thoroughly enjoy out little chats immensely !

Australian politics is much better for the fact that O'Farrell fell upon his sword.

It is a rare example of the conventions of the Westminster System of government being upheld. His decent act of resignation stands in stark contrast to the many shabby instances in recent times where politicians and others holding positions of trust, should have resigned but didn't.

It would not be politics or the internet if there were not scurrilous gossips seeking to add to his discomfort and misery. Some here allege the most complicated plots that none but the ratbag political extremists might entertain, but even they only pretend to believe. Sad stuff. They should get a life.

He should have resigned and did. However, so should have others and from all parties, especially the Greens who always seem to have some personal attack going somewhere, but have hides of Teflon themselves.

otb,

Love your commentary...

NSW Labor - and now NSW Liberals embroiled

And you reckon the Greens should resign.

You're funnier than Micallef!

Paul1405 says"....Barry will simply trot out the "Alzheimer's" excuse of I don't remember..."

But he didn't. He deliberately said he did not receive the vino, not that he couldn't remember receiving it. The Alzheimer's excuse would have landed him in far less trouble, even after his thankyou note was produced. Why did he lie? Don't tell me he forgot.

I'm left to think he lied because he trusted that nothing was out to contradict him, and, a bottle of wine would lead to further questions that lying might avoid. ICAC should not chase only the lowest hanging fruit here. The resignation should not mean ICAC has finished its work on O'Farrell.

OSW, that you think Abbott should place political ties with a corrupt politician ahead of his responsibility to uphold the status of the role of Prime-Minister has you roped to the same mast as him, sadly. I've always read you as more of a straight-shooter.

Beach,

I'm not sorry for Barry and his discomfort and misory. This is the same Barry who has been for the past 3 years been creating discomfort and misery for thousands, by systematically destroying the public hospital system in NSW, the public education system, public transport, public housing, if its public, Barry was there to destroy it.
As for the Noble Knight Barry, falling on his sward it was more the case of the Devil Barry tripping up and impaling himself on his pitch fork, noting noble about it.
As for Greens should resign, for what, wroughting coal leases in NSW, fleecing the taxpayer with party donations, ripping of low paid union members, guzzling down $3,000 bottles of plonk at taxpayer expense, and then lying about it? I know Green parliamentarians are people with the highest degree of honesty and integrity, but should they resign for the sins of the Labor and Liberal parties, I think not! This Barry is the same old hypocrite Barry who in 2011 promised the people of New South Wales honesty and integrity in government, but has delivered the direct opposite!
Beach, give up on David and Lee, I have a new Green name for you to jump on Jenny Leong. I see The Greens doing very well in NSW in 2015. Will your man Jim Saleam be "contesting" a seat? LOL

SORRY..FOXEY LOCKS
im with lucky/phrase<<..ICAC should not chase only the lowest hanging fruit here. The resignation should not mean ICAC has finished its work on O'Farrell.>>

yet it was the last siTTING DAY
ITS CASE CLOSED...[UNLESS?]

<<..OSW,>>FOXY..IS IT/TOO4U.<<..that you think Abbott should place political ties with a corrupt politician ahead of his responsibility to uphold the status of the role of Prime-Minister has you roped to the same mast as him, sadly. I've always read you as more of a straight-shooter.>>

ME TOO
we have been too trusting before
what worse a scoundrel like jonny/or sir joe or like the busche [mouth from the south]

or dead pan hangman.privatising everything in sight..got caught ..by his gratitude for a cheap tipple of plonk/that turned to vinigar ..in his presence

this faulse christ like dude ...seems a really evil little pretender?

OUG,

"yet it was the last siTTING DAY
ITS CASE CLOSED...[UNLESS?]"

From my understanding, NSW ICAC is pretty much an ongoing investigator - more like a perpetual Royal Commission....anyone...Yes?

Here's Kate McClymont explaining exactly how it unfolded.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/icac-not-to-blame-for-barry-ofarrells-downfall-20140417-36tw7.html

"Barry O'Farrell's resignation has got nothing to do with whether he accepted a bottle of wine, or whether he declared it. ICAC has also got nothing to do with his downfall. O'Farrell was caught out and he has no one to blame for this but himself."

"The crucial question is: why did he hang his premiership on the receipt of a bottle of wine?

It's important to go back to see how this unravelled.

When the commission's forensic accountants found a book entry in the Australian Water Holdings accounts that showed an American Express payment of $2978 with a reconciliation that read "Gift to Barry O'Farrell and wife", they had an obligation to investigate."

"It was after the lunch break that O'Farrell was called. He repeatedly and vehemently denied he had received such a gift.

''I'm certain that I would remember receiving a bottle of Penfold's Grange, particularly one that was of my birth year,'' he said. ''I have no idea how much the current vintage Grange would cost but I would understand that a vintage dated the 1950s would require me to declare it.'"

"After leaving the witness box, O'Farrell chose to repeat his denials before a media conference providing journalists with all the grabs they needed of him staking his premiership on the bottle of wine. These were O'Farrell's words. No one from ICAC had tricked him into a corner. It was O'Farrell who did this all on his own."

The entire article is worth a read. McClymont has been attending and covering the hearing.

Poirot,

The NSW ICAC is kept very busy, with a constant parade of political luminaries and big wigs being "invited" to sit in the hot seat and give their version of events, I wont say evidence, that would be too generious a term, because most lie through their teeth as to what they knew and did. O'Farrell was just the latest in a conga line of crooks, spives, and who knows what, to feel the blow torch of the ICAC, and so they should.
The truth is for well over 10 years you couldn't sneeze in NSW Labor unless you got the okay from Eddie. It now seems the Eddie Obeid cancer also invaded the Liberal Party as well, not to underscore the fact there will be shown that cancers were systemic in that party as well.
The next hearing involves Central Coast Liberal MP's Hartcher, Spence and Webber and chargers of corruption.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/icac-targets-central-coast-liberal-mps-chris-hartcher-chris-spence-and-darren-webber-as-well-as-labors-eddie-obeid-joe-tripodi-and-tony-kelly/story-fni0cx12-1226830411776

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for that - and here's another link that's
well analysed by Ben Eltham:

http://newmatilda.com/2014/04/17/icac-claims-another-scalp

Ben tells us that -

"The respected Liberal Premier was at the height of his
powers heading a popular government with a huge majority when
he's been brought undone by the apparently minor matter
of a bottle of wine..."

"When called to give evidence at ICAC O'Farrell at first
said he "couldn't remember" and certainly not from the
dubious provenance of Australian Water Holdings' Nick Di
Girolamo."

He couldn't remember a $3,000 bottle of wine?
Then when a Thank You note turned up which O'Farrel wrote -
O'Farrell's days were numbered.

And there's more to this scenario - still to come.

Interesting times ahead - that's for sure!

Paul,

Yes...it's fascinating that now the Libs have seemingly been caught in their own snare, that they are now waxing lyrical about the power of ICAC - and not in a positive way.

After yonks of watching Labor get donged on the head with the ICAC frying pan, I note a few rumblings amongst the ruling elite. On 7:30 last night Mike Baird's dad, Bruce Baird, was ruminating thus. Not to mention Gerard Henderson's gargantuan hissy fit on Lateline the previous night - (video in that SMH article)

Luciferase,

Thanks for the info on O'Farrell's Liberal govt in NSW. Living in the west, I haven't really taken much notice of the state machinations over there.

From Eltham's article https://newmatilda.com/2014/04/17/icac-claims-another-scalp:

"O’Farrell had originally claimed he hardly knew Di Girolamo. He had repeatedly denied the gift of the bottle of Grange. Then it emerged they had met at least 10 times, called each other fortnightly, that O’Farrell had phoned Di Girolamo to thank him for it, and, of course, that he had penned a touching thankyou note. A serious “memory fail”, indeed."

10 times?

O'Farrell's hiding more than a bottle of wine, and I hope ICAC stretches to learn what that is. Meanwhile let's laud his amazing integrity for resigning. As if he had a choice!

Poirot, I'm probably not one you should thank. I've on about Abbott more than NSW corruption.

Luciferase,

Watching 7:30 last night and an interview with Mike Baird, who appointed Di Girolamo to that board despite him being previously knocked back due to insufficient expertise. Baird appeared to fudge the whole interview with generic and nebulous waffle about the whole of cabinet having to sign off on such things....shades of Tones in fact - without the slogans.

I think the Di Girolamo connection will cause ongoing angst for this govt for some time to come.

Luciferase,

I don't doubt your sincerity on this, but to say, <<Meanwhile let's laud his (O'Farrell) amazing integrity for resigning.>> As if he had a choice, a choice to "tough it out" as a lame duck leader, with the media pack at him night and day. O'Farrell would have lasted the proverbial 5 minutes, until the tap on the shoulder came from within. The bloke was well and truly set up. This was no accident, the players knew exactly what they had in store for O'Farrell. it was not a serious of unfortunate coincidences, but a well orchestrated plan from the conservative side of politics to unseat O'Farrell. One thing that every politician has is enemies, within.

Paul1405, I must start using faces for sarcasm (like a "smiley" face for humour). Is there a "sarcastic" face you could direct me to?

Now look what you've made me do, my last allowed post for hours. Ah well, nothing left to say on this anyway. Maybe Shal can move into the space and amuse us with some squirm'n'slither.

Shaaaallll, come out, come out wherever you are (or has he gone the same way as belly?)

Overpowering, does Hockey get a go at telling some lies or does he play dumb and know nothing, just like shultz. Abbott certainly has dubious judgement, you could say.
Abbott would not have expected so much from this enquiry. No one is untouchable, with a lot of remembering going on from every politician.

Luciferase,
Thanks for confiming me right about you lot. cheers for that.

Dear Individual,

Why don't you surprise everyone - and
say something intelligent?

Yep, it is a bit much individual.

They have to sit silently through their people ripping off tens of millions with mining leases, their PM setting up hidden slush funds, ripping of the union working class, & a bunch in prison for pedophilia. Plus they have the shame they must feel from Carr's revelations of what a waste of space he is, & the buckets of garbage he is exposing in their leaders.

For years they have been getting a thrashing in the honesty stakes. Now they find a weak link if the other lot, & you'd thing it was a billion dollar rort. Still I suppose we must be sympathetic of the poor dears, they don't often get this chance, with it usually their lot in the dock.

Dear Hassie,

You can do better than that instead of
repeating the same old tired chestnuts.
The fact remains - what is currently surfacing
is apparently only the tip of the iceberg - with
more to come. And corruption should not be tolerated
in any side of politics - especially by people who are
so delighted to expose it in others.

I RECKON..IF MR CLEAN
REALLY CAME CLEAN..ABOUT THE LOT OF IT
MUCH THOSE WHO FORGOT IT..at the heart of the rot,,of it

WILL GET A ROCKET IN THEIR POCKET

TURN THE HEAT UP
come together..right now
we stand together against..the two party farce
or fall down in the mire they prepared..for the rest of us

Easter is the right time to fix this..or else
we all head to the wilderness...rainbow GATHERING....IN survival camps..just like robin of loxley...IN EVERY STATE PARK..COMMONS AND FOR*REST...HORSE PADDOCK..AND FIELD.

repeating the same old tired chestnuts.
Foxy,
That is the superblack kettle calling the pot black. Surely you must have a link somehwere in your extensive & probably taxpayer funded link repertoire to introduce a little more diversity with your comebacks ? Spice it up a bit with some of your own words rather than quoting others all the time.

Dear Individual,

The day that you actually contribute something
of any substance to discussions on this forum -
as I've told you time
and time again - is the day that you will be able to
give any sort of advice to anybody. In the meantime
as I advised SPQR - if you find yourself unable to
articulate cohesive thoughts then you really need to
keep you mouth shut and keep your insults to a minimum.
Their over use may make you sound stupid. They
certainly don't make you sound clever.

Hasbeen,

Er...he resigned because he told whoppers to ICAC - most vehemently told whoppers to ICAC.

However, It does appear that the ones who "lobbied" Labor just moved onto the new Liberal govt.

I think they all need to clean up their act - and ICAC is proving a most useful cleaning product.

.............

Individual,

Most of your commentary on OLO consists of you calling people either morons or stupid - or both.

Do you actually have a considered opinion on anything other than "National Service"?

Haseie and Indi,

No doubt, as two of the prized dupes of the Tory elite, you have absolutely no understanding of New South Wales politics, and why should you, when all your political time is spent hero worshiping The Mad Monk and that hard boiled egg Newman in Queensland.
The O'Farrell Affair has little to do with mug Barry's forgetfulness over an expensive bottle of rough red Penfolds plonk, and lots to do with the big end of town getting their hands on that super juicy plumb the State owned polls and wires that form the NSW power grid. You know those thin strands that connect your tree house to civilization, on second thoughts you two are most likely to be completely in the dark.
Barry in the main has been for big business a dutiful servant, delivering 99% of what ever the State owns that was worth having, at bargain basement prices, and like hard boiled Newman doing his best to destroy public services.
However when it comes to delivering those polls and wires, Barry has strangely been a stumbling block for BB. Barry actually wanted to develop a policy on privatizing the power grid and take it to the voters in 2015 and obtain a mandate if they were to sell anything at all. That was not acceptable to BB and Barry had to go. Now with the Bible Bashing Baired at the controls, the hand brake is off and it will be full steam ahead with privatization of State assets, well what's left of them.

Hi there...

FOXY said inter alia '... And corruption should not be tolerated in any side of politics - especially by people who are so delighted to expose it in others...' So true FOXY, so true. But doesn't pietism or sanctimony reign supreme in all strata's of politics ?

It's little wonder why most politicians are reviled and mistrusted by the electorate ?

As always FOXY, I hope you're very well and the procedure you're having done in July, will fix things for you, permanently !

Dear O Sung Wu,

Bless your good heart.

I still prefer to believe that most politicians do go
into politics for the right reasons and do work
hard on behalf of their constituents. As I've stated
earlier we have many examples at the State level -
to go by. Anyway, what's happened in the past years
hopefully will be cleaned up because it has damaged
politics. It is a case of betraying the people. The
voters will undoubtedly judge accordingly.

Foxy, Poirot, Paul1405,
You're trying too hard to pull the wool over the eyes of the thinking, you're wasting your time, because they're thinkers. If you think that we're Tory worhippers then you'd better think again. No thinker worships, only the leftie sheeple are sucked in by that phenomenon, why, you're still defending i.e. worshipping the most incompetent outfit this country ever had the misfortune to be led to near collapse by.
When have you lot ever put forward workable, practical & economic solutions ?
I have put my arguments on the table, you lot haven't got what it takes to understand & all you do is come up with this idiotic Tory nonsense etc so, what else can I resort to except hoping to stir your untapped senses of sense ?
You are the ones resorting to ridicule or bore us with leftie links. Come up with some practical proposals & you'll get a better deal from those who care, not just pretend to care.

Dear Individual,

I'll match my posting record with yours any day.
And, as long as you keep on doing what you're doing
you'll keep on getting what you've got old chap.
Enjoy your evening.

Cheers.

individual,

That's more like it!

Now instead of wasting your time detailing our faults, why don't you elaborate more fulsomely on just exactly what it is about the "great thinking Tories" that lights your fire.

Because it seems to me that the Conservative side of politics is always attempting to recreate the past - and take society with it, starting first with selling off of public assets.

Indy supports any level of corruption that keeps Tories in power. Simple as that.

Indy supports any level of corruption that keeps Tories in power. Simple as that.
Luciferase,
Congratulations, you've managed to plumb new depths in nonsensical retort.

Poirot,
What you need to wake up too is the fact that the ALP Academia are the real Tories in Australia. They're the wasters of anything of value & are the ones who love romp'n pomp ceremonies etc like the Tories of old England.

Dear Individual,

Let me see - who was it who brought back
the Knights and Dames Imperial Honours
just recently? Hmmmmmm. I don't think it
had anything to do with the academia.

cont'd ...

I forgot to add that I want to wish everyone
on this forum a very Happy Easter.
Enjoy your Easter break.

Good point, Dame Foxy.

individual,

Care to enlighten me why Liberal state govts have decimated the TAFE system?

.......

Here's a good article outlining the vehemence with which O'Farrell misled ICAC.

"But when the premier came to give evidence, he denied having ever received such a gift. He denied it categorically, he denied it cockily, recklessly and with embellishment."

http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2014/04/19/barry-ofarrells-resignation-after-misleading-icac/1397829600#.U1Gph2eVogL

Well only speaking for myself is 2 things in my life i am not Proud of and i can remember them without any problems at all, Makes me wonder If Barry couldn't remember a 3k bottle of wine what less then honorable moments is he hiding and will we find out

we are missing the bigger picture
this guy is another ex banker*

recall ukrane=BANKER/became pres
GREECE GOT A BANKER....BELISCOINIE[italy] GOT REPLACED BY ...A BANKER

seeing a pattern//here?
nsw gets its own banker

toney watch out for the banker!

why Liberal state govts have decimated the TAFE system?
Poirot,
I attended several Tafe courses over the years & going by how hey operate i'd say get rid of TAFE altogether. It's nothing but a machine to churn out certificates for people who have no aptitude for anything.

Foxy,
That Dame & Knight game is nothing but a great distraction, obviously it worked.

Aussieboy,
O'Farrell realised that that stupid bottle of plonk was nothing but trouble & he stupidly denied knowledge of it, hoping it'd blow over but, as he should have known better the Left thrives on trivial things that cost the taxpayer hence their tenacity in pursuing him. Payback for Thompson that's all.

Dear Individual,

Did you finish your TAFE course and get
your Certificate? Usually the ones that
do - have an aptitude to at least do that.

So now you think the Dame and Knight thing
is merely a distraction? Then why bring
academia into it?

You need to do a bit of research into ICAC.
It was founded in 2002 - and is an Independent
Commission Against Corruption. It has nothing
to do with the current Opposition who after
all can't really pursue anybody. They're not
in government.

individual,

"I attended several Tafe courses over the years & going by how hey operate i'd say get rid of TAFE altogether...."

I'd say that says more about your application and experience than anything else.

My son-in-law retrained as a soil technician at TAFE and has had excellent work prospects since.

Another friend trained to be an electrician and has since lead teams of electricians up north WA and is now employed on Barrow Island.

Could name heaps more - one trained and head-hunted for a position in Dubai, who's now leading inspections of oil rigs from Singapore.

You're such a sour puss, you wouldn't be interested in seeing success even if you could be bothered looking for it.

Dear Poirot,

I fully agree.

All of our excellent Library-Technicians
received their Diplomas from TAFE. And
I wouldn't exchange them for some
Librarians. They have hands-on practical
experience as well (a requirement of the course)
- and they do great work.

"Payback for Thompson that's all." You demonstrate by this that you believe ICAC to be a lefty inquisition, because your man was snared.

Any level of corruption that keeps the ultra-right in power is OK by you as it's all just ledger squaring, right?

Think about that for a millisecond and interrogate your morality, individual.

Hi there FOXY...

Speaking of attaining qualifications, what is the difference between a Library Technician, and a Liberian ? My own thoughts would suggest that a Liberian possess a Degree ? Or am I barking up the wrong tree ?

barking up the wrong tree ?
o sung wu,
that's a special qualification one can only obtain at TAFE in a job where productivity can't be measured by way of revenue, only in expenditure. :-)

Dear O Sung Wu,

A Library Technician's course is a four year
course at TAFE - they have to also be employed
in a library before they're accepted into the
course at TAFE because "hands-on" experience is
part and parcel of the course.

A Librarian usually has a Bachelor's degree as well
as a Post-Graduate qualification in Librarianship.

Does government have any tertiary qualification as a prerequisite for entry to librarian positions? I don't believe that is so.

The 'difference' between library technicians and librarians is traditional - bureaucratic status. Both are clerks. Up until very recent times when librarians reluctantly conceded that information is the game and technology is how it is delivered, the librarian separated herself from 'others' such as library assistants because she (the librarian) did 'administrative' things.

TAFEs offer the certified training for all levels.

To be honest, there is bugger all judgement required, it is all precedent. -Since cataloguing and practically everything else apes what the Library of Congress does.

There was that standing joke when most State and federal departments sloughed off their libraries, here,

Q: How many librarians does it take to change a light bulb*?
A: One. -She waits and watches for what the Library of Congress does and then does the same herself.

*substitute cataloguing and other duties.

Where some libraries remain in government agencies, the strong focus and preference is for subject matter knowledge. An example could be the Attorney Generals Dept and legal familiarity.

otb,

Give it up, mate.

I know it's irresistible - and that you think you've hit on a novel new way to have a go at Foxy, but really there must be a limit to your pettifogging pursuit of jollies in that way.

Lol!

That so?

Here you go, TAFE librarian training, all certified in full compliance with the Australian Standards.

http://tafenow.com.au/information-and-cultural?gclid=CMrstZ-E7r0CFYHhpAodwRoAxQ

Maybe you would like some job advertisements as well to show that tertiary quals are NOT prerequisites?

What is interesting is relativity. A librarian gets $70-80k PA.

However trained police get much less. Here you go,

Police Officer salary bands*

Constable
$52,823 – $64,135
Senior Constable
$65,962 – $79,118
http://www.policerecruit.qld.gov.au/whatWeOffer/employmententitlements.htm

Good to have some facts and numbers too.

Nasty old overpaid librarians.

There should be a law against it!

: )

hey foxie.i need a libarian..to get some info
in fact we want a way where everything is catalogued/cross referanced

ie we want to loist fully the assets special interests of everyone
in a real hardcopy FILE..UNTAMPERABLE..[RECALL THE KING WHO NOTED EVERYTHING DOWN IN BRITON/LIKE THAT BUT A REAL BOOK OF LIFE

WE NEED RECORD EVERYONES ASSETS SO GOVT CAN ASSURE/insure and preserve them properly/too much of value isnt being properly respected/we want it in black and white

but bacK to the bushman][GODS MUST BE CRAZY]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=11

BUT ONCE WE GOT EVERYONES ASSETS ON RECORD
THE THIEVES DONT GOT NO WHERE TO GO
ONCE THE LIBRARIAN ENTERS IT ONTO YOUR RECORD/GOVT ASSURES AND INSURES IT works for the whole of our life/how do i begin organizing my appeal..[this trial..'could' go 50,000 years..till the last injury has been recorded...into the record.

online transcripts?
how does pone get online info into a court case?

Dear Poirot,

ALIA (Australian Library and Information
Association) currently accredites courses at both the
undergraduate and graduate level for librarians.
These courses meet the
Library and Information Sector: Core Knowledge, Skills and
Attributes which have been developed by educators, and
practitioners, and are the basis for
accreditation of Library and Information courses for
librarians. Graduates will
be able to become ALIA Associate Members and be eligible to
commence their certified professional membership (ALIA
Certified Professional). Librarian courses are not
available at TAFE. I know. I firstly received my Diploma
as a Library Technician (having completed my Bachelor's
from Uni earlier) and then went on to University
for my post-graduate qualification in Librarianship.
My teachers at TAFE felt that I should do this.
And at their encouragement I did. Also, Teacher Librarians
must hold formal teaching qualifications to be eligible to
enrol in any ALIA accredited teacher librarian (post-grad)
qualifications. Courses for Librarians are not available at
TAFE. And a Librarian cannot become an Associate Member
of ALIA - without proper accredited qualifications.
Been there done that.

Library Technicians - on the other hand - their
course are only available at TAFE. Library-Technicians
courses are not avialble at universities. And all
ALIA accredited courses are at
TAFE - at the diploma level and - are recognised.
Graduates are able to become ALIA Library Technician
members. They cannot however become Associate Members.

Library Assistants - are the only ones where no formal
qualification is usually necssary to work as a
library assistant - although ALIA does encourage these
people to explore some introductory courses and options
that are available from TAFE (Certificates).

All government departments and most employers have to
meet the criteria set by ALIA if they want to hire an
accredited library professional. And most of them do
just that - because there are set award wages to be
considered depending on experience and qualifications.

The link otb gave deals only with Library-Technicians
and Assistants, and not Librarians. But due to his
lack of knowledge - he doesn't know any better.

Hi there FOXY...

Thank you very much for that. I thought there must've been some clear delineation between the two ? I would imagine also that both professions would require a high level of scholarship in order to be successful in such a job ?

Without pretending to attribute any false praise for you FOXY, you write brilliantly, and so concisely, as evidenced by your protracted exposure to your previous profession.

As an individual who received very little formal education myself (has anybody noticed!!), I always admire anybody who can, so adroitly make full use of our fantastic English language such as yourself FOXY ! Dare I say POIROT is also very well versed in it's consummate use too ! In your case as a former Librarian, you would've had ample opportunity to read, even critically examine, some of the great writers of our age.

Oh well back to my current book..."Big Ears and Mr Plod" !

Hi there INDIVIDUAL...

Brilliant my friend, really brilliant ! :-)

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

C'mon ol' man, that's a bit tough on FOXY, isn't it ? I recall a very nice lady Librarian who got me out of a real heap of 'manure' when I was still in the Job ! She was briefly seconded to a Task Force in order to assist in copying, collating and then juxtaposing written material against the 'originals' held by detectives 'as exhibits' forming our brief of evidence.

I'd failed to return some originals to the property officer and suddenly DPP wanted to read this stuff over the weekend, before the hearing. That was set for the following Monday - the originals were left sitting in my briefcase, she kindly arranged for the prosecutorial associate, to receive copies which saved my bacon ?

I reckon there's good in everybody I believe !

Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for your kind and generous words.
You really have such a big and good heart and
always act with great civility never forgetting
that there are human beings on the other side of
our computers. I agree with you - humans are
the most extraordinary creatures and a big part
of me still wants to reach an even greater understanding
about who we are. Not because I need to know more
necessarily, but because I am drawn to the process of
discovery. Still I have to admit that I find it
difficult to get emotionally involved with goonish
behaviour. I find it simply too ridiculous to engage me.
Yes, I have met some bad people along my journey in
life. But I have met some amazing souls - and their
light fills me.
You are one of them, as is Poirot, and quite a few others
on this forum.

o sung wu,

No I don't believe that finding the relevant facts is being a bit tough. It is a discussion site and it can be difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.

There are no damsels in distress.

How has your Easter been so far?

Hi o sung wu, my take on librarian qualifications.

Like nursing, it was one of those qualifications you got on the job. Start as a library assistant, & you could do a TECH night course to qualify as a librarian, or a library technician. This was the usual course until the later 60s. Usually it was only technical librarians, who required qualifications in a discipline to be able to do the job, who were degree qualified. In NSW at least, council librarians were usually TAFE qualified.

Then in their typical grasp for more courses & income, like nursing, universities took over the training, so it required a degree, usually a BA, & a postgraduate course in librarian qualifications.

My lady was an early degree librarian. She had done a BA, & planned in following that with a Diploma of education, [Dip Ed], to become an English teacher.

In those days, when your suitability for employment was more important than your civil rights, she discovered the NSW education dept. would not employ asthmatics as teachers, so she did the library course instead.

When all the older management librarians were TAFE qualified there was some friction between those with different qualifications. Shortly after this, the TAFE qualification was discontinued.

In those days research was an important part of a librarians work. Perhaps Foxy can tell us if Google has taken over much of that area of their work, or if it is still important.

Dear Hasbeen,

What you're referring to is the "Registration Certificate"
of Librarianship that existed during the 1960s. The first
three papers of that course gave you a Preliminary Certificate
as a Library Technician. Evening courses were given, at
least in Sydney - at the State Library of NSW.
One of my former colleagues went through this process and
became the Chief Librarian at the Ashfield Municipal
Library. Lovely lady.

Hi (again) FOXY...

Of course, you're very welcome indeed FOXY. Still, even those who disagree with us, also have a valid point of view I suppose ? A view that perhaps we take issue with, nevertheless it's a cogent position from where they argue their point. After all the Forum is a great place to ventilate and convey our respective opinions ?

Unless of course we seek to become a politician, where the poor unsuspecting electorate, have to pay heed to our occasional pontificating or other useless shards of untainted baloney. Which at the end of the day, we see them for what they are ? Nothing but a bunch of blaggers ! So we, unceremoniously kick 'em out of office, leaving the blighters with nothing useful to do, other than to count their immense taxpayer funded pensions ?

Ah, as it was once said, such is life !

Hmmm, I have been caused to review what information I had on this, which is good.

While it is true that most libraries have been lost from public agencies where they once proliferated in all manner of Divisions and branches, and there has been a strong campaign for a lot of reasons including affirmative action to remove barriers to advancement, there remain some employment categories where the older professional membership, or at least eligibility for membership, still applies.

I was aware that AASW membership still applied to social workers, and the surprise was that librarians are still subject to ALIA eligibility as has been pointed out by Hasbeen and Foxy.

It is useful in sieving work applications from migrants. Although such conditions are always under pressure as is seen with the requirements of medical colleges where politicians are being lobbied to remove the 'unfair' hurdles.

So Foxy and Hasbeen you are both right and I will gladly admit to having the wrong impression.

G'day there ONTHEBEACH & HASBEEN...

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

Our Easter has been quiet and very good so far. Naturally we've kept off the roads, as the traffic has been horrendous from what we've heard ? I hope your Easter has been great also, for both yourself and your family ?

I can't understand why they continually attack Tony Abbott ? I can't see what he's done ? OK, his re-introduction of part of the old honours system appears odd ? And dire warnings, concerning the up-coming May budget, reducing pensions etc, appears foreboding ?

Still, Labour has incurred so much debt over the ensuring six years, (whatever the reasons, good or bad?) something must be done to rein it in. Otherwise our grand children's, grandchildren, will still be re-paying our foreign creditors for the rest of their lives ?

To conclude, in my memory ONTHEBEACH, I can't ever recall such an acrimonious attack on anyone in federal parliament ? So much venom has been directed, at a single (sitting) politician ? It's unsettling, even alarming ? I sincerely hope this style of parliamentary practice is NOT a precursor for things to come ? Many can remember scenes from parliaments in Taiwan, South Korea and Thailand, where violence has occurred almost regularly ?

G'day to you too HASBEEN...

What ! The NSW Education Dept. wouldn't employ qualified teachers if they suffered from Asthma, extraordinary ! God help us ? I was an asthmatic as a kid, and I got into the Regular Army, you can never figure out the way some people think ? Or perhaps that's the answer, they simply don't think ? Seems though your good wife made a successful career, without any help from the vacuous staff of NSW Education.

By the sound of it, some Uni's had expropriated many of the hitherto well placed TAFE courses, more from a economic perspective, rather than for more pragmatic objectives, like to substantially augment the level of training perhaps ? TAFE should be broadened not diminished as we've witnessed.

It is useful in sieving work applications from migrants.
otb,
That reminds of quite a few years ago when I requested some historical info from a State Library. I found it rather odd to be dealing with people from a foreign background/culture about Australian history. Your phrase "sieving" came into my mind then & I was horrified at the thought that people from cultures not that much short of hostile to ours being in charge of our historic evidence.
It made me wonder at what is being made available to the public, when & for what reason.

Oops, I just realised this was a thread about the PM.

otb,

Thank You.

o sung wu,

"Still, Labour has incurred so much debt over the ensuring six years, (whatever the reasons, good or bad?) something must be done to rein it in. Otherwise our grand children's, grandchildren, will still be re-paying our foreign creditors for the rest of their lives ?"

I appreciate that you believe the things that Joe Hockey is telling the electorate, but you should know that Australia's debt in the wake of the GFC, even with the stimulus is one of the smallest in the OECD.

Check out this graph.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/3727694/data/possum-graph-8-government-debt-as-gdp-data.jpg

Mr Hockey is very good at swagger and looking aggrieved - so be it.

So much for an AAA economy - won't be for long as he sets about dousing economic activity.

As for Abbott, I'm sorry. but this guy was elected reassuring the electorate that he wouldn't be messing with health, education, or pensions, no cuts to the ABC, etc....and since the election has systematically gone back on the majority of his promises. Not just one or two, but many. Added to that, are many other negative initiatives which he gave no hint about when vying for our vote.

I have a problem with someone who has so little regard for keeping his govt's word.

He appears to be a man of very little integrity with an extreme right-wing agenda.

Hi there Poirot...

Thank you once again for replying to my thread concerning the overt aggression enveloping Tony Abbott at the moment. Actually I found the graph you so kindly sent me to be very interesting concerning where precisely Australia sits apropos our Government debt, reflected as a percentage of our GDP ?

Looking at economic data in isolation, similar to those statistics which are shown on this graph, does seem to reflect our Nation in quite a positive light, in terms of our overall debt.

That said, we have almost no manufacturing base here now. Our only real (saleable) commodity, is our mining and farming sector. Even that we have no apparent desire to 'value add' to anything we export ? Even as recently as the closure of the BHP, Newcastle Steel Works, we no longer 'value add' anything from that which we gouge out of the ground anymore ? Why is that ?

POIROT, you mentioned that the many important promises Tony Abbott had made prior to the election, had either been broken, or were about to be broken ? Well, I suppose he and Joe Hockey had to 'wing it' a bit during the campaign, without knowing the precise details of the Labour government's overall commitments ? Regrettably, some of those promises were made, without first fully understanding or being aware, of the exact 'state of the books' as it were ? Consequently, some of those promises may need to be modified, even broken !

It's true, nobody likes to be lied too. Even with the best intentions ? Whether Tony Abbott turns out to be a good leader...well, who knows ? I expect history will be the final arbiter of both the LNP, and the Hon. Tony Abbott ?

o sung wu,

"...Well, I suppose he and Joe Hockey had to 'wing it' a bit during the campaign, without knowing the precise details of the Labour government's overall commitments ? Regrettably, some of those promises were made, without first fully understanding or being aware, of the exact 'state of the books' as it were ? Consequently, some of those promises may need to be modified, even broken !"

Oh really?

I put it to you that their agenda was already clearly marked out by the IPA whose bidding they are doing - and that the LNP election campaign was almost solid deception from start to finish.

You may or may not like to peruse this very long list of broken promises or other commitments the Abbott govt has abolished (most without a hint of their demise before the election)

http://sallymcmanus.net/abbotts-wreckage/

But the best indicator is here...the IPA's wishlist - scroll down for 75 gems of right-wing genius.

Just check off the initiatives already completed
http://ipa.org.au/publications/2080/be-like-gough-75-radical-ideas-to-transform-australia

But when all said and done, what will be will be.

It'll be interesting watching the debacle unfold.

You really should be more careful Poirot, that first link of yours will be counterproductive.

Any intelligent adult human being would start cheering as they read that list, & be in raptures at the finish. Your link will have directed many who would never go to such tripe, to it.

Then again, any fair minded adult would find that there were no broken promises listed, just a pile of green/lefty ratbaggery that has been eliminated.

I'm sure your link has caused quite a few, who did not realise how much good Abbott had done already, to actually find out how well they are going.

What a nasty bit of garbage wrote it. I can see where you get it now.

"What a nasty bit of garbage wrote it. I can see where you get it now."

Yes, Hasbeen you're all class, aren't you.

Typical of your ilk.

POigent/potentate..that's a good chart
here IS AN OTHER CHART
WAR offense spending..
or rather GROSS PRIORI AKA procuring commissioning..of means of destruction..paying for the military industrial confluence..or watching the serfs/while plundering their gold
http://static.businessinsider.com/image/535313a769bedd25694e08e5-1200/image.jpg

wonder how guy faulks..who tried to
kill the long tax paid tally stick's in Parliament house
used to buy one third the main british bank..[recalling that trying to burn them later they burnt some of Parliament down]..we then went bust on the gold/coin..via war bond promise notes

YEAH THE GOLD TRADING CHART

*everyday
3 times all the gold ever actually mined..get TRADED..IN PAPER GOLD
JUST LIKE THE LAST TIME..when the gold guilds over issued redeemable money..[nixon i think ended paper for gold in his day]

so it must have been pre 66..someone decided to give even our silver away/this debased the queens coin= high treason..[during times of war?]

oh well that christian [bible]thing was hugely disappointing

o sung wu,

Thank you for your interest. We do the Christian thing of showing care for those we care for in our lives. Time together breaking bread and making good company. Need to use the car for that, but like many we choose our times to avoid congestion and concentrate just that bit more.

However, in the broader world of present-day Australia, decency, being a good citizen and caring are not so valued as they once were. Or so it seems.

The nastiness and ferocity of the personal attacks against Tony Abbott that have extended to his support staff and wife and girls previously, are no different from the disgraceful attacks made on Kevin Rudd (and his family too!) from within his own party.

Leave the flickering box and internet and care to step out into the world and there are still the wonderful selfless (as opposed to the self-seeking) people who are the glue of society.

Holidays including long weekends are very busy times in community volunteering. Of course there are thousands on beaches who need protection for example, but apart from them there is the hidden layer of vulnerable folk who could do with a helping hand and importantly, some company. Monday I am in for some yard work and I need it for exercise anyhow. Petrol driven machines would have been too noisy on Sunday and out of common decency one shouldn't disturb the many for whom it has sacred meaning.

Anyhow, what I am meaning to say is that for any who are mobile and can spend a bit of time visiting the vulnerable in their homes, make a cup of tea and just be there when relatives are not (increasingly common), there is a welcome reminder that there is always a lot of very nice people around and so often they cope bravely, although there are limits to that.

Got to say though that the spite against that young lady Peta Credlin is a real turn-off.

osw, nice sentiments 'cept for the politics. I thought Rudd copped as much from your side as from the inside, but let's leave that out.

My attack on Abbott here is not personal. He is simply unfit to uphold the office of PM.

You are ded set rite there. Without the likes of Credlin being there Abbott is a bumbling twit, unable to put two words together. Credlin would be a much better choice for PM. You have to be a fanatic to put up with the likes of Abbott, or Hockey for that matter with his face pulling exercises.

For my money, the oh so delicate young lady, Ms Credlin, is the most dangerous thing in politics these days. She's the IPA facilitator.

otb,

We nasty lefties aren't averse to a bit of community minded volunteering.

Last Thursday my son and three of his friends, aged 14, 12, 11, and 10 went up to the Catholic cathedral to fill bags with Easter eggs for the old folk at one of the old age seniors villages.

These same children travelled to these homes to distribute Easter packages and good cheer for the seniors....quite heart warming it's been over the years.

There's decency and respect everywhere you look if you open your eyes to it - and there's no need for the LNP/IPA to destroy our social democracy to engender that spirit more fulsomely

Correction. Not osw, but otb, of course

Dear Poirot,

What a beautiful act from you and your children.
Something that will stay with them.

My family also spent Easter Sunday at my
mother's aged-care facility. We brought
coloured Easter eggs, arranged in baskets,
and baked brioche for her, and the residents.
My children and their families helped with
this as well. It is something that we've
done since my mother moved into this facility.
Eventually she'll be moving into a nursing
home and we shall continue with this tradition
(as we did for my mother-in-law - who had
alzheimers - but has now passed away).
Other families of the
residents also contribute in many ways as well.
We feel like members of the one family.
Looking out for each other.

He is simply unfit to uphold the office of PM.
Luciferase,
Who'd you have as PM at this stage then ? Adam Bandt or the just as silly Christine Milne ? Or some incompetent ALP git again ? I say wait until Abbott makes a decision close to as bad as the previous two PM's then start making such assertions. At this stage you're merely & unnecessarily venting your own unfit mentality because we're already aware of it.
No matter how bad, Abbott can never be as bad as someone from the Left.

You posted the bit of slime Poirot, so that must be the garbage you read.

Update,

individual now how another descriptor for people with whom he disagrees.

So now it's not only "stupid" or "morons" - it's "unfit mentality"

Good-o

Rudd nor Gillard publicly supported a politician exposed as corrupt by ICAC. Abbott did, wholeheartedly.

How does this befit the office of the Prime-Minister of Australia? He's supposed to represent the nation, not put his political allegiance before it.

Who would I put in his place? A drover's dog would be a better choice.

Hasbeen,

"You posted the bit of slime Poirot, so that must be the garbage you read."

Charmed, I'm sure.

Luciferase, maybe they could elevate Hasbeen to PM....he has such nice manners and a particluar way with words.

It's the sort of class we're accustomed to from some right-wingers.

Well looky here:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/icac-under-threat-of-being-silenced-20140418-36wg0.html

The pure as driven snow LNP are a bit upset about ICAC.

From having been enormously enamoured of it when it was exposing Labor corruption, all of a sudden they've become disturbed because of the threat to peoples reputations.

Now why is that I wonder?

Herald journalist Peter Hartcher reported on Thursday that federal Coalition figures were furious, with one federal cabinet minister saying privately to colleagues: ''ICAC is a kangaroo court. It's destroying the lives of innocent people. The moment they're named in ICAC, they're finished, even though there is no accusation, no evidence, nothing.'"

Or do you think it's a mere coincidence that these issues have been raised now that the stench has been found to have pervaded Liberal Party ranks also.

One minute the Libs reckon it's rooting out corruption - and the next it's a kangaroo court/star chamber.

Hypocrites....

So now it's not only "stupid" or "morons" - it's "unfit mentality"
poirot,
I'll make it easy for you, prove me wrong.

Dear Individual,

It's up to you to provide proof for your
sweeping generalisations and statements.
Not anyone else - as any good debater knows.

Hi there POIROT...

You must now realise how intellectually unequipped I am to answer the myriad of broken promises allegedly made by Messrs Abbott and Hockey ?
So I'll not even try ? I will accept he's probably broken some, and before he's done, he'll need to modify or break even more ?

But so have many of the Labour leaders down through time, they ALL break their electoral promises, whether or not they're Labour or the LNP. Something I've learnt over time POIROT, whenever we're told something, we should first look at the motive of the person imparting that information. Secondly, we need to closely examine the character and position of that informant, and then attach their motive to the equation, in order that we my discover the truth ?

Ms Sally McMANUS, who is, the Secretary of the 'Australian Services Union' of NSW and the ACT has or had, produced a picture of the PM Tony ABBOTT on some kind of 'brochure' bearing a distinct similarity to that of the TV Series 'Breaking Bad' with the last word 'Bad' being substituted with the word 'Promises' ? Very amusing and quirky indeed ?

Sadly POIROT, the moral standards and calibre of this sort of posturing, has significantly diminished much of the pivotal gravitas of Ms McMANUS's message.

So in my humble view, far from convincing me of the dreadful deeds of Abbott and ors., I believe Ms McMANUS's motives are inordinately clear. Destroy Tony ABBOTT by any means possible ? That being the case, I fear greatly for the future of our federal Parliament ?

Many thanks POIROT.

o sung wu,

"So in my humble view, far from convincing me of the dreadful deeds of Abbott and ors., I believe Ms McMANUS's motives are inordinately clear. Destroy Tony ABBOTT by any means possible ? That being the case, I fear greatly for the future of our federal Parliament ?

Many thanks POIROT."

Excellent!

Let's all sit here and lament the lying scoundrel - Sheesh that someone may have the temerity to document his lies and misrepresentations,...in that case we must fear for the future of our Federal parliament.

(I take it you didn't bother reading the IPA's wishlist...and comparing it with Abbott's agenda...eerily alike)

The more I think about it, if reasonable people like you are sucked in by this cretinous regime, the more I'll enjoy sitting on the sidelines while they mince our decency, our fortunes and our social democracy - and saying "I told you so".

Good luck (you'll need it)

G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

I think I recall you telling me you do quite a bit of voluntary work, and that's really great ! About a hundred years ago, I did a bit of counselling at the Wayside Chapel at Kings X. I learnt an enormous amount about 'people'. But like all good things it came to an abrupt halt, essentially my return to shift work, and the fact that another volunteer there found out I was with the coppers ? I was stationed at Parramatta, and lived at Maroubra, so travelling became an issue too.

Since those days I've not done any volunteering at all ? I remember you had an extraordinarily good knowledge of Aussie boxing too ONTHEBEACH ? Were you ever a pug yourself by chance ? I did in the Army (cruiserweight or lt.heavy), the annual Inter-Service boxing team.

Strangely (DON'T tell HASBEEN) the Navy always seem to win overall, the two years I was in the squad anyway, the Army second, and the RAAF (naturally) last ! I loved it, absolutely loved it ! Still the professional ranks were much much tougher to navigate through, when men were impoverished or indigent they fought as if it really mattered ! Sparred quite a bit at the Burwood PBC, that's it though.

The lady to whom you refer, Peta CREDLIN, I gather she's on the PM's staff ? As such, why would it prove necessary to verbally castigate and attack her good fame and character ? Similarly Kevin RUDD'S family and associates too ? Hasn't politics got filthy eh ONTHEBEACH, and why ? After all, we're all Australians, sure we have differing views and opinions, we're all still civilised, aren't we ? It's little wonder there's so much violence in the community, when young, impressionable people, see how others, who should no better, behave without any apparent censure ? Though, I do have my theories, but I think it's inappropriate, to espouse my deluded suppositions or assumptions just now, another time perhaps ?

Take care ONTHEBEACH, and your good family too !

Cheers...O Sung Wu.

Hi (again) POIROT...

I not sure I'm reasonable, perhaps I'm just plain stupid, I really don't know ? I'm reminded of a saying a Chinese friend of mine likes repeating; 'there's your side, my side, and the truth' ?

May I ask, do you think for a moment, you might just be wrong ? Not wrong in everything you say, just some of the things perhaps ? I realise you say he's a real 'blockhead'. Yet he's a Rhodes Scholar, surely that must count for something I should think ?

To be perfectly honest with you. I don't place much credibility on anything a professional union leader states, particularly on matters of federal politics ? They all have agendas, above and beyond that of caring for their membership ?

Do you believe me when I say that POIROT ? Obviously, I can't reveal anything about a specific matter ? Other then to remind certain individuals, there are those Union Leader's who couldn't withstand, any sort of close examination, of either their private affairs, or their fiduciary duties as high profile Unionist ? The veracity of this remark may well become apparent, in the fullness of time ?

POIROT, I'm very sorry, that I either confound you, with my rank stupidity, or I annoy you, because of the exact same reason ? However, I can only admit conclusively, that I have nothing but good intentions.

o sung wu,

"The lady to whom you refer, Peta CREDLIN, I gather she's on the PM's staff ?..."

Peta Credlin is Abbott's Chief of Staff and permanent programmer and minder. You'd be battling to find him at any public function, formal or informal, without her in attendance...I mean "every time".

The only time she and her puppet strings are packed away is for major formal occasions , whereupon they drag Margie out and prop her up beside her husband.

Credlin is often to be seen in the House of Reps sitting close to elected govt members and overseeing their conduct, giving advice during sessions.
All in all, she's Abbott's puppet master and in effect running the country in an unelected capacity.

Really, I'm getting beyond caring (would you believe:)
I'd actually welcome a "Liberal govt"...I'm just not welcoming this bunch of extreme right-wing Tea Partiers. It's interesting that such a radical collection of right-wingers goes down so well on OLO (I shouldn't be surprised, of course)

Btw, o sung wu, I'm not really appreciating the disingenuous tone creeping into your dialogue such as:

"POIROT, I'm very sorry, that I either confound you, with my rank stupidity,"

"I not sure I'm reasonable, perhaps I'm just plain stupid, I really don't know ?"

Shades of Loudmouth and his much employed and sarcastically delivered faux self-deprecation.

I'm not interested in playing psychological games with you.

Poirot,

I fear you accuse o sung wu unfairly, by suggesting there is some underlying guile in his manner of expressing his opinion on this subject.

Not all can be as erudite or as bold as your good self in evaluating what for many of us is clouded in much misinformation and much precipitous (and possibly mischievous) conjecture.

I find no evidence of any guile in o sung wu's posts; but very much on the contrary, I find him thoughtful, respectful and informative.
I am quite satisfied his intentions are entirely honest and founded on a very high level of integrity.
To suggest otherwise, dear Poirot, does not reflect kindly on your powers of perception - IMHO (such as this may be worth).

Also Poirot, elsewhere you have indicated how you and your family undertake some volunteering. Tony Abbott also volunteers - as a lifesaver and firefighter, and in support of some other worthy causes - yet you give him no credit, as a caring individual.
'Blinkers'? Or, some far more serious deep-seated misgivings?
Can you really be so certain, Poirot, of Tony's 'underlying' motivations and intentions? (New-age crystal ball, maybe?)

o sung wu,

Thank you for your honesty and integrity. It is most refreshing on this often boisterous and argumentative forum.

Hi there SALTPETRE...

Shades of the police force I fear ! No matter what, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't ! I try not to give offence to anybody, seems that whether I do or I don't, I give offence anyway !

Thank you also for your very kind words SALTPETRE, I appreciate them immensely, though undeserving unfortunately ! I don't know, perhaps it's time I left certain Topics well alone in future ? Or perhaps I should simply put on some body-armour and set forth with some palpable aggression ?

Again, thank you SALTPETRE I really appreciate your support.

o sung wu,

My apologies.

As you are no doubt aware, I usually give as good as get around here. My usual modus operandi is to reply in kind. However, you appealed to me as someone with whom I could exchange respectful interaction. You are neither stupid or wanting in any way regarding your rhetoric or your powers of reasoning. Forgive me if I misread your self-deprecation as something other than genuine - as I mentioned, I've had experience on OLO with some who merely feign such humility for the purposes of sarcasm....obviously not your aim at all.

Once again, I apologise if I read you wrong.

.....

Saltpetre,

It remains to be seen as to whether I judge Mr Abbott too harshly. His trail of broken promises and unheralded "surprises" display a man who has had no compunction in misrepresenting his govt's intentions prior to the election.

Regarding his charitable and volunteer activities: It's well known that he is the "only" politician who claims expenses for the Pollie Pedal.

Here's a comprehensive review of some of his expense claims for that and other purposes.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-10/green-why-the-expenses-scandal-still-has-legs/5013230

Not too much to be proud of there.

Not to overlook his firefighting-cum-photo ops.

Regarding his much vaunted volunteer activities at Aboriginal communities - here it's revealed that his time at communities is much less than we have been led to believe - and his tax payer funded charter flights only add insult to his supposed "volunteering" - eg. a one night volunteering trip charging the tax payer $32,545.00 in charter flights.
http://www.independentaustralia.net/article-display/tony-abbotts-costly-indigenous-community-volunteering,5628

One last thing. Today Mr Abbot released a few words on the passing of Neville Wran
http://www.scribd.com/doc/219283105/14-04-21-Neville-Wran

The stilted script could have been written by an 8 year old, it is so sparce and lacking sincerity. It was pathetic, especially considering the effusive praise he heaped on Barry O'Farrell in the wake of his resigning in disgrace.

Fair enough, if you think a man like Abbott is someone to look up to.

We obviously have very different ideas as to what constitutes an honourable leader.

OSW, "I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't"

There are things you can do that won't damn you. Language such as "broken promises allegedly made" indicates a choice to be blind. What is "alleged" about the promises?

Saying,

"Well, I suppose he and Joe Hockey had to 'wing it' a bit during the campaign, without knowing the precise details of the Labour government's overall commitments ? Regrettably, some of those promises were made, without first fully understanding or being aware, of the exact 'state of the books' as it were ? Consequently, some of those promises may need to be modified, even broken !",

ignores provisions put in place by Peter Costello so the state of the books was fully known when promises were made. The circumstances framing the upcoming budget are confected in relation the the state of the books at the last election.

woohoo, the lefties are getting snakey again.

@P'rot,

<<It remains to be seen as to whether I judge Mr Abbott too harshly.>>

ROFLAO

<<judgement>> implies a weighing up of evidence. In your case it was more Pavlovian, as soon as you saw Tony you started to salivate.

When you saw him standing on the beach in his budgy smugglers you just had to have him, but you knew he could never be yours -- and you lust turned to disdain and you've been whining ever since

o sung wu,

Thank you for your interest and discussion. A busy day yesterday and today. I loaded my truck with equipment for 6.00am but by coincidence my two assisting brothers-in-arms have ill wives and will arrive soon. A big commitment from both of them today because they have a mountain of work (in their real jobs) following the long weekend. I can be more flexible.

I'd have to say this is most enjoyable and beautiful April weather we have had for many years. I will leave it at that so as not to jinx it.

A busy day is a good excuse to smell the roses, even while spreading the compost to save water. The old have so many more charges and concerns today, don't you think? I wonder if many Boomers will be able to live their lives out in their family homes as their grandparents were able to, and their parents to a lesser extent (as some are finding now!).

Well I'm off, so you enjoy your day too. The morning sunrise was spectacular and peaceful over a hot Bournville cocoa. That was a good start and I have some scalding 'perc' coffee to take with me.

Oops, nearly forgot, just keep on truckin'.

luckey/quote..<<..Regrettably,..some of those promises were made, without first fully understanding or being aware,...of the exact 'state of the books' as it were ?>>

wow thats one..lol we will never hear again..lol

as if public servants CAN KEEP FREAKING SECRETS
to say you didnt know means you chose not to know..plausible denYability

<<..Consequently,some of those promises..may need to be modified, even broken !">>..yeah but we didnt know..lol..sorry mate thats not going to work/this time

ya see aussIE/THE HOCKEY STICK..GIFTED 9 BILLION TO THE FED
LETS BE CLEAR..here..he added 9 billion debt..to the bottum line
plus been adding quite a bit of extra JUNK/WELL OFF BALANCE SHET till the next election

even striving to keep nbn etc off books
but adding iu..in other debt..so he gets a really big number

Labradorean'S seem to front load their secrets..into the far future/its clear joseph is pushing his future deBt backwards./

but lets just say GREEn/glow in THE DARK-labratters *know where it really is,..cause thats part of their duty of care

of course if you can prove joe didnt know?

thats proof he isnt fit for the job..he is suposed to be a professional/as witnessed by his generosity to the imf/his current employer..as will be revealed in the future

<<>.ignores provisions put in place by Peter Costello>>

oh god himself/who finished off what that other mongrel begun
cheating keating/where is he now one wonders last i heard he was taking over some pathetioc island/land grab..who was he working for then/is reflected by who he works for now

<<>.so the state of the books was fully known when promises were made. The circumstances framing the upcoming budget are confected in relation the the state of the books at the last election.>>

or as much how they expect them to be when they leave
its all a scam//govt CAN ISSUE ITS OWN MONEY..WITHOUT THE NEED TO TAX US INTO PEPETUAL IMPOVERISHED AUSTERITY...dammcaps]

After reading so many posts i am wondering at what income level you need to cross from left to right as tony and joe seem to be defining where the line is atm to the left we have the poor people who believe in lets do the right thing for the country.... cross the line we have the rich who want to sit back watch the poor people work and line there own pockets and bugger the country. So what is the income level required to cross sides please

AUSIE/QUOTE.<<..i am wondering..at what income level..you need to cross from left to right>>

ITS BEYOND INCOME/[today....its more based on outgoings]
once you feel govt is screwing you personally as a cash cow/you take a hard right turn

some sell out for pennies other for pounds
but if you wont sellout for money fame sex or credit/they allways watch your family for you when your on stage

<<..as tony and joe seem to be defining where the line is atm>>

autoimatic teller/?
a run ON BANKS?..THEY FIGHT THAT BY DEFLATION/WE DONT WANT THAT JUST YET

<<..to the left we have the poor people who believe in lets do the right thing for the country....>>

MEANS THEM GETTING A FREE RISE
free lunch/they get more greedu more needuy the more they got

give them a shovel/bucket and some seeds
like they did in russia/with the elite inbreeds

bring them back to earth/get them to se the basics..with fresh eyes and brain/but they excape THE AUSTERITY/PUSH IT BACK ONTO ME/PAYING YA SINTAXES..bying new light bulbs/and for buy bACK POWER/THE BURDEN IS TOO MUch

we [they ]..the beggers need to taste austerity
live on the dole alone/for a few days weeeks or years/as long as it takes

<<..cross the line>>
ok the line gets crossed..<<we have the rich who want to sit back watch the poor people work and line there own pockets and bugger the country. So what is the income level required to cross sides please
Posted by Aussieboy>>

when the austerity measures in comming..
comes into your income..[wait TILL THE BANKErs steal your last cent/limit your withdrawels..to just a few cents..then the rich set it on their credit card/level the playing field..its gotten too hard

WHEN YOUR INCOME IS CUT/PEOPLE GO NUTS

SPQR,

"<<judgement>> implies a weighing up of evidence...."

Yes, indeed.

Funny, when I saw Abbott skipping around the country prior to the election saying things such as:

"Our Pledge
No cuts to Education, no cuts to Health, no changes to Pensions, no changes to GST, no cuts to ABC or SBS under a Govt I lead."

In my mind's eye, I saw great big neon coloured warning lights spelling out the word "LIES".

But there, you go - maybe I'm psychic.

ROFLAO!

..........

individual

"woohoo, the lefties are getting snakey again."

Nice to see you keeping up your normal standard of contribution - we'd hate to see you getting above yourself.

Here you go...

Remember the $6.00 co-payment that was bandied around -then promptly and conveniently dismissed when the govt was trying to get Glasson elected?

Apparently it's going to be included in the budget.

(What a surprise!)

"A CO-PAYMENT of $6 for bulk-billed visits to GPs will be included in the Abbott government’s first budget with the aim of saving $750 million over the next four years.

The expenditure review committee has decided to go ahead with the co-payment, including a proposal to cap it at 12 visits, meaning a maximum extra cost of $72 a year for patients."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/hit-for-bulkbill-gp-visits-in-budget/story-fn59nokw-1226891638592?from=public_rss#

White-anting Shonks....

Does anybody know what's happened to
Shadow Minister?

I hope that he's allright.

i was harsh on him a month or so back
but he dosnt read my posts anyhow
but like you i miss his determinist right wingeeneering

anyhow poiroT/SAID..<<.."A CO-PAYMENT of $6 for bulk-billed visits to GPs will be included in the Abbott government’s first budget with the aim of saving $750 million over the next four years.

The expenditure review committee has decided to go ahead with the co-payment, including a proposal to cap it at 12 visits, meaning a maximum extra cost of $72 a year for patients.">

thats clearly to catch the rich privatly insured mob trying tpo keep their preniums down[like they prefer to come public for free

rather that pay the balance..in the thousands
they would get if the declared their insUrance status
YOU MUST REMEMBER THE POOR BUGGERS ARE DOING IT TOUGH SINCE THEY WENT BUST UNDERWRITING THE MORTGAGED SECURITIES..and now they gotta blame someone else..hence they wrote the obama care/thingy/we got out of it cheap..

anyhow fill in the question
the best way to raise money is by the poor paying a top-up
and sin tax and double power fees..plus increased water charges
oh and that tax thing..no tax below 20,000 was it//yes thats gotta \go too

but hey the smoker taxes yes that has to stay
but its all needed so people finally get it.govt isnt there for you..its there for its mates and masters..[our bettors]..better /fetter [the public service snobs][or them wearing the new silken suits

oh why bother

>

Good afternoon to you POIROT...

Apologies are completely unnecessary POIROT. Please accept, what I say, I say with complete conviction. With politics I have only a very rudimentary understanding of the complexities and machinations of what goes on, behind those heavy closed doors ?

When I was still working, most of my colleague's interest in politics, was limited to whether or not there was any pay increases, or additional benefits ? Or were they amending some law that had a particular influence on how we did our jobs ? As you can imagine POIROT, all earth shattering events, and critical in terms of the National Interest, I'm sure you'd agree ?

POIROT, I'm very sorry if it appeared that I was in any way trying to be insincere or duplicitous with my language, concerning any of the matters that you've brought up, or any of the opinions that you've sought to share ?

There's little doubt, you and I are diametrically opposed, in terms of our respective political allegiances. That said, there's no reason why we can't have a very spirited discussion on practically anything, anything at all ! I hope we can continue to have some peaceful sparring, even a spot of 'jousting' over the many, and varied topics that appear on this Forum, from time to time!

Nice to see you keeping up your normal standard of contribution
Poirot,
I can see how you don't like my remarks because what else could you do, after all, you're not proving me wrong which is what you should be doing if I was..

I've done my best to flush him out, Foxy, to no avail. I too hope he's just sick of us or taking a break to recharge his arrogance. Perhaps we can have a guessing competition.

How about he has been transferred to the from the party's propaganda unit to promise-breaking or keeping-secrets units.

individual

It's not that "don't like your remarks" - it's that they're usually just vacuous twaddle...the rhetorical version of running into a room and blowing a raspberry at someone.

Ho hum....

Ah well, I think I've just about exhausted everything I wish to say apropos, whether or not Tony Abbott is fit, both morally and ethically to be the Prime Minister of this great Country of ours.

I suppose only time and history will tell ? Goodnight everybody.

<<what's happened to Shadow Minister?>>
The answer is simple, when confronted with the total corruption that is the Liberal Party, it was all too much for the little tike, and poor old Shadow has done the unthinkable, yep, SM is now a fully paid up member of The Greens! Can't post because his solar powered, bio diverse 'puter made from recycled tractor wheels and egg cartons, free range egg cartons of course, has gone on the blink due to a general lack of sun shine in the Sahara. where SM is now trying to establish an organically sustainable whale farm. p/s I think Belly went the same way, gave up naked Morris Dancing and became a 'watermelon', not a Green, just a watermelon.

they're usually just vacuous twaddle..
Poirot,
Are they really ? Is the reality of no substance & logic in your arguments starting to frustrate you ?
Why focus so vehemmently on Abbott"s Uni Campus survey slump when he's doing so much more right than the incompetents that you support could have ever hoped for ?
You're running the man down for no other reason than your inability to see & accept some competence. That is nothing short of just stupid. Many Australians are pleased & relieved at this, you're stupidly the opposite. Run the man down after he's done something stupid but not before.

individual,

Hi there!

I see you've dragged out your trump line - again.

The diabolically clever retort that your opponent is (wait for it) "Stupid"

I'm running Abbott down because he's a liar.

I'm criticisng Abbott because he and his govt went to the election on a platform of deception.

Now I know that the standard line here, is that poor little Abbott and Hockey were somehow ignorant of the state of Australia's fiscal health and that they've been forced against their better character to overturn almost everything they said pre-election in their first seven months.

But,as Luciferase mentioned, Costello put in place PEFO - the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Outlook:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-13/pefo-released-by-treasury-and-finance/4883392

- they knew the state of the books and they still said what they said to get elected. Since the election Hockey has cooked the books with his very own MYEFO to pave the way for their despicable agenda.

Fair enough, it you think going to the election with one agenda - then promptly reversing it once elected is honourable behaviour.

I resent being lied to on such a scale.

Wow!...the books are in such bad shape that the govt is being forced tho white-ant medicare and mess with pensions while simultaneously spending $12 billion on fighter aircraft.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-23/australia-to-buy-58-more-joint-strike-fighters/5405236

"The $12.4 billion price tag makes the Joint Strike Fighters Australia's most expensive Defence asset."

Excellent - and in concert with the $9 billion to the RBA which it didn't ask for and didn't need.

Oh and...

"The head of the JSF program, US Air Force Lieutenant General Chris Bogdan, visited Australia earlier this year and declared the reliability and maintainability of the aircraft was not yet "good enough".

In late March the US House Armed Services Committee was told the planes were not affordable to use at the moment.

The committee heard software problems could delay the fighter's production, and foreign buyer delays could see countries like Australia paying millions of dollars more per aircraft."

So all in all, Abbott's splashing around money we're constantly told we don't have - and now on dodgy and expensive hardware.

(Those New Zealanders better not get too uppity, eh:)

Good-o

Dear Individual,

Come off it. You can't be serious.

Take a look at what the polls are currently
saying about Mr Abbott and his government.
Did you miss the Marches in March of this year
(all on the news). Where tens of thousands of
people from all walks of life - mothers,
fathers, young and old, were marching to show
their dissatisfaction with Mr Abbott and Co.

And you talk of his competence. Get real.
Even members of his own party are starting to
speak up.

You need to take your blinkers off.

Considering the dire circumstance, according to Hockey, that the government finances are supposedly in, can anyone believe anything other than Hockey and Abbott are lying about the economy and the "state" Labor supposedly left it in. Considering they are about to commit $12 billion for some new "toys for the boys".

Foxy,
My blinkers are off, are your rose-coloured glasses ?

Poirot,
The diabolically clever retort that your opponent is (wait for it) "Stupid"

let's be brutally honest here, what else could I have said, you cornered me so much with your retorts that I literally had no other term to draw from the english language.

It was said all over the place to no end that Rudd/Gillard ran the country into such a fiscal mess that it'll take decades just to catch up let alone show savings.
I do wish though that public service salaries would be frozen for at least 10 years & politicians salaries cut back to the previous level.

Dear Individual,

What do rose-coloured glasses have to do with
opinion polls and marches by voters against
the current PM and his government?

Here's last years' Four Corners video and transcript of the examination of the F-35 fighter jets.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/02/18/3690317.htm

A few excerpts:

"It's been billed as the smartest jet fighter on the planet...But after a decade of intensive development, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is over budget, a long way behind schedule and described by one expert as "big, fat and draggy"."

"PIERRE SPREY, FORMER PENTAGON ANALYST: Every aspect of that airplane is basically a failure waiting to happen."

"The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter could be the granddaddy debacle of them all. John Howard as Prime Minister signed Australia up to the F-35 development program in a secret deal with the American manufacturer Lockheed Martin in a Washington hotel ten years ago.

On paper, the plane must have seemed irresistible. The plan was to buy 100 of them. Delivery was due to start flowing just about now.

In reality, cost and delivery have blown out dramatically and credible experts believe the plane will never do what its makers promised.

In Washington, doubts have been raised about the future of the whole project."

"ANDREW FOWLER: But there's little trust for the world's most expensive and controversial military program from a host of critics around the globe.

PIERRE SPREY, FORMER PENTAGON ANALYST: So we have an airplane that can't turn to escape fighters, can't turn to escape missiles, sluggish in acceleration because it's so big and fat and draggy and doesn't have enough motor for the weight.

My prediction is the airplane will become such an embarrassment that it will be cancelled before 500 airplanes are built."

"You'd never know it out here but the plane is riddled with bugs. It's not flying supersonic, its computers are operating at nowhere near full capacity, and it's restricted on how tightly it can turn because of g-force pressures.

PIERRE SPREY: We haven't even scratched the surface of the failures because we've done all the easy flight testing so far. The hard flight testing, you know, that's all in front of us, that hasn't been done yet."

P-76 of planes?

I don't know but just maybe it would of been an idea to get 2-3 of our top pilot that will be flying these things to take them for a test drive and see what they think..Just an idea

P-76 of planes?
Poirot,
I think I'll buy a lottery ticket now, for once I agree with you. We already have P-76 Submarines.
i chuckle when I see the Defence Force add where they refer to the 44,000 strength of the Forces. Indonesia has 22 million.

individual,

"I think I'll buy a lottery ticket now, for once I agree with you.."

Well jolly good on you for mentioning it...I think I'll buy one too!

Cheers

Dear Poirot and Individual,

Count me in as well.

Were the Flying Pigs a mistake?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-12-03/f-111-farewell-raafs-pigs-no-longer-fly/2361958

I have friends who flew them and they say the F111 was still a potent long range bomber up until scrapping by the RAAF.

However there were critics of the purchase as too exotic and risky back then.

[I AM PROBABLY GOING TO REGRET THIS, BUT]

When I heard of the aircraft purchase I thought: "Do we really need this...what a waste"

Just think-- if NASA had that sort of money to put into the colonization of Mars wooooohee!

GEE..WHY the slump..IN THE POLES..
BECAUSE...WE NOW KNOW..the/WHO THEY ARE POPPING UP
[WHO../what...WE ARE BAILING OUT/AT AN EXTRA PERSONAL DEBT[PLUS INTEREST]..OF 4500 DOLLARS EACH]..to wit half/wit hockety bailing out the fed/who bailed out the imf

then..the 12 billion.bailout for these over engineered planes
i recall the royal..fly over..was 4 of these over engineered/barely flying/flown..freaking computers/suffocating their pilots.

when we could have given..them an overfly of 12..who over flew Brisbane..when they were delivered/one can only presume Russia has picked up on it/and done their neat little trick on the us navey..OVER/FLYING..

Apparently, the tests which were conducted under conditions as close to real as possible, were successful.
Read more: http://indian.ruvr.ru/2014_04_21/Russian-Su-24-scores-off-against-the-American-USS-Donald-Cook-5786/

ITS FUNNY IT FLUSHED OUT..THE SPECIAL POSTERS
i noted a few 'names' returned..expect the shadow back any post now

anyhow govt has borrowed money from thE FED
THUS HAD THE CASH ON HAND..TO BAILOUT THE FED
WHO DIDNT NEED THE MONEY..SO THEY LEVERAGED..THE 9 BILLION..INTO [WHAT LOOKES LIKE 90 BILLION THEY GAVE TO THE IMF..THEN THE BAILOUT OF THEM 4 PLANES]..referred] to as hanger ornaments..because they spend most their lives in the hanger

anyhow why does he fall..
its because his polio/masters..never really left govt
just pulled their head in..till he became elected and as long as theY SERVE JOE'S bankers do their bit..well things will be just great/FOR THOSE DEBT HOUNDS TAXING US BY EVER MORE BASTEARDRY

BUT the rich still get their super top-up
the rich still get their babies as if wage
FARMERS AND MINERS STILL GET THEIR FUEL TAX FREE
AND WE GOT GASSED..IN THE ASSS..yep its still about class
some hold share..others bet on whether the shares they can never own/will go up in the next micro second..or down..[flash trading]..in the next micro second..ON IDIOTS Mining bit coins/..that really are code busting computer access codes..they can crack/any other way..next time your seeing.that realistic game kill some civilian..THINK WHAT IF IM IN CONTROL WITH 10 OTHER PEOPLE KILLING REAL PEOPLE WITH DRONES

im noting obama is following in tonies foot steps with his 10 day china japan tour..to do treaty business..not go9ing so well i hear

ss

The $12 billion, or $20 billion or $30 billion, what ever it ends up being. Australia has a tendency to pay through the nose for this sort of thing. Just put it down as another part payment in a long list of part payments to Capitalism. Call it a thank you to the Yanks for their never ending love and devotion to cash strapped Australia. As Biggles Abbott said "Its not new money, its old money, which apparently Keven07 had saved up from the small change from buying office morning teas. Unfortunately Kev left in a big hurry and forgot the cash in the bottom draw, Biggles Abbott has found it. Now all that is left to do is make a another transfer of wealth from the ordinary Australian people to Yankee big business.

Correction. Not osw, but otb, of course

TONY YOU HAVNT SEEN OTHING YET/ASK HOWARDS ADVISER..to show you the tape from good friday 2002..where mick [of abo/passport fame]..speard me..on my leFT HIP..THIS WAS REGARDED AS SPIRIT APPROVING THE WIKISEED/WIKIGELD WRITTEN OF IN THE SUN TReATY ANd ratified by dennis waker issabe coe kevi bussacott..SAM and so many more that the required 24

and many others we cant talk of proper way
til this last day..6 may/judgment day
operation intervale*

the comforter is here
the comforter is there
BUT..IN court tomorrow
THERE WILL DIss COmfort reign.
court 20 brisbane maji strait/curt/stanley st
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=10

this thread will get special mention
mainly..because..[the first will/must..be the last]
but hopefully we can negotiate A FEW QUICK SETTLEMENTS VIA LIEN ORDERS AGAINST SPERS REDLANDS HOSPITAL MAIN ROADS/REDANDS COUNCIL/WHO HAVE ACTIVLY DECLARED WAR ON ME..PERSONASLY/ by their works do i reveal you and tony..[and yes even raeme

my settle ment terms tony..will be the sergents mess and the land upon which stands one comm z shed/it will be exised from the park..from the rest.[the car pak to car park/is tonies swettlement price/that army land is sacred...its my settlEMENT WITH THE FED

THE REST..mainroads give me the corridor.for the abuses it set up for spers/to put a lien on my home..this must be compensated/i claim queens park..personaly

see you in court
IN court 20...6 may*..tomorrow
court 20 brisbane majiCtrait/cu0rt/stanley st..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=10

this thread will get special mention
AND SEEMS WHERE WE MUSRT BEGIN..[the first will be the last]
MY OFFER IS NOTICED..silence signiofies concent/under duty of care*

..I 'PROMISED TO APPEAR'.. and did so/despite..KNOWING i couldnt get much OF IT IN.,,anyHOW TONY..THERE IS THE ISSUE OF DOPE..[nats CALL IT HEMP..HOW CAN YOU IGNORE THAT IS THE SEED OF THE TREE OF LIFE[See rev 22;2]..that leaves heal the nations plubswrd oF THEIR LAST asset by 'the banker-man'''.SO POWERFUL HE is going to take ya job

JOE HAS SET YOU UP
BUT BURNED HIS BRIDGES
THEIR REPLACING YA TONY/WITH THE banker
you could turn this arround by refusing to criminalize the plant[and offering a settlement of state debt/by buying state ASSETS/RATHER than them privatizing them

just ASSUME ALL THE STATE ASSETS
fed owns pays.state councils..[tender?]..RUN THEM.up front fixED PRICE TERM OF CONTRACT.

THE TAX THING WAS TO GET YOU GONE/UNPOPULAR/BUT WASNT THAT JOES IUDEA AND THAT BANKER/LOCK UP EVERY BANKER THATS NOT FRONT ROOM STAff[money corrupts absolute conTROL OVER MONEY SUPPLY CORRUPT\TS ABSOLUTELY

ALL NEW LAWS SHOULD DIe when their creators aRE KICKED OUT
PREVIOUS GOVT Should set the budget for the incoming..THEN LIVE WITH THE SAME TERMS

ANYHOW...THE COURT CASE CONFIRMS MASSIVE Malfeasance/are you clean tony/if sO CEAN IT UP QUICK/they want you gone before june

its a sign of the times
obViously..we knew the budget was comming

anyhow/what else is comming..bail-in

suing THE SPECIFIC LIARS PERSONALLY
.MAKING the truth come out/freedom of info requests etc

jury nullification
http://www.roitov.com/articles/cenacle.htm

the lie/IS\..to be
*it refueled..in iran/then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDGgXfXlxCA

black flag event maybe monday
they wilL blame it on iran..they expect/unthinking armogeddon

be prepared
http://www.roitov.com/articles/cenacle.htm

DONT MISS THE LAST hALF OF THE SHOW
http://rss.infowars.com/20140522_Thu_Alex.mp3

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180928#.U3443nawXG8
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180855

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/new-reason-wheat-gmos-can-destroy-health/

http://jordanmaxwellshow.com/blog/2013/12/02/jordan-maxwell-files-0001

* Cargo Boeing 777 entered Dutch airspace as world leaders gathered for summit
* Fighter jets escorted the cargo hauler to Germany without incident
* Plane was later cleared to continue to its original destination, Amsterdam

(CNN) -- The Royal Dutch Air Force scrambled fighter jets on Monday to intercept a cargo plane that entered Dutch airspace without proper clearance as world leaders gathered in the Netherlands for a nuclear security summit.

The LAN Cargo Boeing 777 bound for Amsterdam from Miami "was diverted away" from Dutch airspace due to restrictions around the summit in The Hague, Edmund Messchaert, spokesman for the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice, told CNN.

He said LAN Cargo apparently forgot to apply for permission to land or didn't know airspace restrictions were in place for the summit.

The plane was later permitted/to continue to Amsterdam,
http://joecruzmn.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/awacs.jpg
http://joecruzmn.wordpress.com/
[.../boeing.../comment-page-1/]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2FZayu3hHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_536434781...

THERE ARE 4 BEACONS..that are deployed/lIKE THE YACHTMANS HAVE
THESE NEVER WENT OFF..thus the planE landed on land[the theorY IS THE PASSENGERS WERE ASPHYXIATED..IN Fight./and the thing stripped down for parts.[777 part shortage appareNTLY]
http://xrepublic.tv/node/8859

SO THE PEOPLE MAY OR MAY NOT BE dead/by remote control THEY COULD HAVE KILLED EVERYONE/ON BOARD....AND WE THE PEOPLE KNOW..someone..is keeping secrets/but how many they prepared to kil/for armogeddon?