Following Labor's collapse at the polls after Abbott's relentless attack on every mis step or blunder by Labor, Shorten and the Labor cabinet have clearly decided that relentless negativity works and that they will use Abbott's tactics against him. However, this is not as easy as it looks, as there is a fine line between focussing the attention of the voters on government blundering, and simply looking like whinging without reason.

Abbott did not oppose everything (the record shows that 80% of legislation passed without opposition), he carefully chose the issues where the malfeasance by the government was clear, and resonated strongly with the voters. Debt, the carbon tax lie, and the boats were the clearest examples.

Shorten has chosen

1) Boat arrivals and Indonesian relations. The initial missteps by the government were met with cries of derision from the opposition and predictions of failure to stop the boats. This has now fallen silent as the boats have stopped, and relations are normalising.

2) Shorten as the architect of scrapping the BCC, tried to frame the attempt to re establish the BCC or set up a royal commission as an attack on the unions and workers. The multitude of stories of union corruption and Shorten's union background is starting to look like a cover up. The Royal commission is starting to look like an issue that will bleed Shorten and Labor slowly for years.

Etc,

The issues that Shorten has chosen to fight on resonate most with rusted on Labor voters, and while his attacks initially had traction, the latest Newspoll shows that the coalition is beginning to claw back, and Labor and Shorten have dropped sharply. The essential poll also shows that while Abbott is not popular, that the coalition is preferred to manage nearly every important issue.

Abbott's popularity is -5 .
SM is winging labor are not in govt; Abbott and his clowns are in govt; but they somehow don't know that yet.
If Abbott can't get his legislation through that is his problem, lets remember the DD election.

Have the Tories finally stopped blaming the Whitlam government for all Australian's economic woes, and moved on to blaming the Gillard and Rudd governments instead. With all their false posturing that they, and they alone, are Australia's economic gurus, surly we will see Australia on Easy Street before we know it. With those two economic titans 'Sloppy' Joe Hockey and Mathias (I'm really Arnie Schwarzenegger) Cormann calling the economic shots we can't fail to prosper! Or can we? If the economic record of the previous Tory Howard Government is anything to go by, they will be a complete failure.
Here is a link to a SMH article on what the IMF made of Australian governments economic records.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hey-big-spender-howard-the-king-of-the-loose-purse-strings-20130110-2cj32.html

It was clear from the title, only Shadow Minister could post such a thread.
While unsure Shortens negativity is near as bad as Abbott,s,it never could be.
I am sure Shorten needs to think as the voters he wants to win over do, not those already in the ALP camp.

Needs stating however Abbott,s conduct before we go past it is awful and negative.
No leader of any opposition can avoid bringing that to our attention.
SM tells us of his life time achievements and how intelligent he is, no doubt all true.
But a closed mind is in my view an empty one and this thread talks to me of an unwillingness to see views other than his.

Paul,

While I expect mindless blather from 579, I had hoped that you might have the IQ to read the post and comment on the contents. Instead all you offer is an irrelevant mindless rant that affirms yet again that you don't like the coalition.

Perhaps you could intellectually pull your finger out of your backside and address the issue w.r.t:

a) the approach that Electricity Bill has taken,
b) your comments on its successes / failures /
c) where he could go from here.

If you do rise to the challenge of forming a considered opinion I would be delighted to debate the issue with you.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-debt-to-gdp

Note that the debt increases during Labor governments and reduces under coalition governments.

And how much has Abbott and co; stacked on the debt since he has been there doing nothing. It was 40 billion at xmas it will be at least 60 billion now. Abbott was always on about the 150 million / day so what has he done about it, besides nothing. All talk before the election and nothing since. What a con job.

SM, none of us have a crystal ball, the Abbott government will stand or fall, based on their own performance. In my view the Labor opposition has two functions, one, highlight the governments failing and secondly offer an alternative policy/view, through rational parliamentary debate.
Its the media's job to articulate that debate to the Australian people. In many respects the media often fail to carry that debate adequately, they would much prefer to concentrate on the sensational and the titillating which as they say "sells newspapers".
Both sides of politics seem more interested in the 6 o'clock grab on the TV than the job they should be doing. One of the big failings of both Labor and the Coalition has been their belief that there is no need to develop long term policy in opposition, much preferring to develop a bit of throw away policy close to the election, which on obtaining government one can modify, abandon, or what ever as circumstance dictates. I'm not saying governments don't need to be flexible and capable of adapting to prevailing circumstance, they do. Often where the problem lays is not with the politicians but with the bureaucratic system, as Rudd found out with the GFC and how difficult it was to get a quick positive response from the bureaucrats.
I must say, I don't think Abbott as PM, or Shorten as Opp leader, neither have been screaming successes so far. They are both lucky there was no 3 month probation period with the jobs, they might both now be seeking alternative employment.

Paul, can you honestly place your hand on your heart and say that the Gillard/Rudd government are not reposible for the debt we have?

The Abbott government has fulfilled one commitment, they have stopped the boats. Now that's no mean feat considering Rudd removed the barriers that Howard put in place that had also stopped the boats.

As for blaming Goaf, check the records and you will see that in the past 25 odd years, the coalition has governed twice, and on both occasions they have had huge debts dumped on them from incompetent labor governments. So here we go again!

The fundamental difference between the union driven labor government and the coalition, is that labor and the unions place employee rewards first, then try to get productivity to catch up, which is impossible because the carrot has already been eaten.

The coalition on the other hand says, prove your worth first and the wages will follow.

It's called, reward for effort.

The recent turmoil in the workforce is largely due to union/labotprs unworkable IR policies and these policies are now starting to surface.

The next collapse will be in hospitality, as once industrybjobs start to go, so too will their spending because their IR laws are unworkable, it's just that there's plenty of cash being splashed around by these workers at the moment. Watch this space!

579, given the coalition has set out to and achieved only one real policy, stopped the boats, where do you think the money has gone. Il give you a hint, labors interest bill.

As Tony Abbott government gains the support of the community, as did Howard, you poor buggers will be in fir a long spell between drinks, because your beloved Rudd/Gilkard/ Tprudd government had resembulances of more like a circus than a functioning government but you are simply too stubborn to accept that.

I would love to see a DD election, as it would bury your beloved union corrupted labor party for the rest of my life at least.
Bring it on!

Butch tell us what IR laws are unworkable. The interest on debt is 12 bill / year. so you will have to come up with something else.
IT is monsoonal time as you should know, Now we have a navy that will be stationed in the middle of nowhere forever.
About 20,000 syrians have found their way into malaysia now.

579, Butch has views and thoughts that some times get lost and he still believes Abbott did not just use any reason to tell untruths!
Not much use Paul trying to debate SM he has made up his mind before you think about posting anything.

Try this exercise,think ahead to the day Liberals drop Tony, wait it will come, and just assure SM will claim he always knew the man could not win over this country.
Then consider the long list of offenses Abbott has committed against voters so far.
Then, get ready to chuckle! consider what SM would have said about them if it had been Labor who did that.
Remember too Abbott,s factory door stops lieing to the workers about protecting jobs!

.....Butch tell us what IR laws are unworkable

Where do I start 579.

Union stand over tactics and bullying, labor gave them an inch, they took a mile.

Penalty rates in seven day industries such as hospitality.

Most people who worked on weekends were happy with their arrangements, but no, labor just could not leave well enough alone.

Ridiculous perks for Holden workers. Why should they get treated so well, when their industry mates get so much less?

For example, if you fail a drug test in the real world, you get sacked. Not at Hokden, you get counseling WITH FULL PAY!

1 in six workers are union reps, compared to 1 in 26 as the norm.

Governments controlled by unions need to stay out of people's own negotiations unless the worker wants them there.

Likemitmor nit, you are about to see a huge shake up in almost the entire work force because the pendulum has swung back in favor of the employer, yet, if the unions were willing to negotiate down, rather than their policy of up, or nothing, things could be a lot better.

But hey, don't worry, everything's sweet, so you told me late last year.

The country was flying, then along came one miss Julia Gillard with an axe to grind, and boy did she grind it.

You have no idea what makes the wheels turn.

Belly, I would expect no different from you as you can't see through your union glasses mate.

Belly is full of forecasts but here is one TA will govern a lot better than Rudd or Gillard did. We are certainly facing hard times now which would have come no matter what or who. TA is still the best man to run the country and Belly you just have to bear it!

yep the only no from Abbott in the last 90 days is NO boats. What egg is over the face of all the 'çan't be done crowd'. Next will be NO carbon tax. More egg over the can't be done crowd.

....Next will be NO carbon tax

Especially if Clive Palmer has any say In the matter Runner.

To think, you create all those jobs, pay all that tax, pay your payroll tax, create million in indirect employment tax, and the thanks you get is yet another great big tax.
Of cause they also expect him to pay a mining tax as well.

What a joke labor were, evidence being in the fact that Qantas own sister company won't touch their shares with a barge pole, even at a miserable one dollar, nor will the likes of Holden and Toyota stay on without the government of the day feathering their nest.

Labor did so much damage in this country, including the boat fiasco, where they wasted six years and billions of dollars and Tony fixed the problem in less than six months, yet all they can do is criticize. Typical!

At least we now have a government with balls!

Butch has got hospitality on the brain, seven days a week, it's not compulsory.
The unions can ask for what they want, there is no law that says they have to come to an agreement. FWA are now got laws that say they have to come to an agreement. That is why disputes carry on for months, nothing in place that said they have to agree.
Your idea is to have people working for peanuts, especially in hospitality.
Your eyes would pop straight out of your head if you knew what i do for crust.

579, I call it the servant mentality. There are those that see others, especially in occupations like hospitality and retail, as being a servant underclass, they often talk down to these servants, sometimes in a nice way. Whilst sitting in their fancy restaurant, 5 star hotel, etc, they develop an air of being somewhat superior to those providing the service. A little bit of the 19th century class structure that still remains. Since the servants are viewed as lesser, then they should receive lesser, and be only concerned and contented with providing for their betters, even if only those betters see themselves as only temporally better.
I tend to look down on 'butcher types', ghastly chaps, hacking at dead flesh, in bloodied working men's attire, how revolting, simply ghastly! In the same class as those odious little mem who empty my dirt tin on a Tuesday, fortunately I do not have to engage with these common folk, I have a man servant to do that . LOL

What utter hypocrisy - Abbott accusing anybody of being negative.

"Wrecking Balls", "Python Squeezes" and all those ominous signs of economic devastation, yet his team have blundered their way through the first few months and now moan about anybody talking down the economy.

He has left a goldmine of statements that will come back to haunt him.

There is more to governing than creating 90 boat refugee-free days under a bizarre cloak of secrecy. It's the next 910 days that will matter.

Runner you have bigger problems to worry about, your favorite book is found to be fake, by carbon dating.

Wobbles best get the huge belly laugh out of the thread.
We will not get reality that,s for sure.
Here would be a perfect chance for a caring conservative to take my challenge.
To, truthfully run the rule over Abbott's post election failure to gain friends.

579, have you spoken to people in hospitality?

Are you aware many were happy working Sundays fir time and a half, knowing they had a day off during the week when most others were working.

Play golf on , because it's a joke trying to get on Sundays, not to mention the price hike.

I do not condone slave labour, never have, but, if two adults can't sit down and come to an arrangement without irreverence from unions/labor, then that's a crying shame.

Are you also aware that most fruit can't ripen on a Sunday anymore because the farmers can't afford the staff to pick it.

Office mon to fri work, council, in fact any mon to fri job I have no problems with excessive penalty rates, but seven day trading businesses should be an exception.

Irronicly retail is, but not hospitality or tourism. Go figures,

Julia Gillar, then then minister for employment, you know, before she was given the job to STUFF THE COUNTRY took something like hundreds of awards and condensed them into a few.

Her one size fits all on IR has failed and the results are showing. Oh I'm sorry, you're one of those who thinks we are in great shape,or at least only deteriated in the past few months.

You hit the nail on the head. 60 billion extra debt and 63,000 guaranteed job losses. Unemployment on the rise, not a bad effort for five months. What shape will we be in twelve months.
Abbott will have a version of work choices over again. He has Howard in one ear and Pell in the other for spiritual guidence, even though the holy book has been debunked as fake.
Medicare won't exist and medibank will be flogged off.
Just like Howard, sold off anything he could get his hands on.
Whinge, moan, and do anything in his power to create an unemployment pool because it's in their DNA. They went to the election with no policy and still have none.

579, like it or not, wages must come down as many perks enjoyed today, were negotiated in boom times, and those times are over.

As for going to the election with no policy. What was foremost on most people's minds, the boats and what has Abbott done, he's stopped them!

I know it's hard for you to accept that your beloved labor were useless, but I was of the opinion that the monsoonal season happened in 08, 09, 10,11,12 and 13.

Or, has it only occurred in 2014?

As I said, they were useless! This just proves it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-14/cassidy-liberal-breakaways/5259464
The Link is balanced and rightly names faults on both sides.
That makes it nearer the truth than some comments in the thread.

Belly, good article and to the point. It covers Green philosophy to the core, the word is Sustainability, without it you get nowhere in the long term.
The Liberals are wrong in their approach, Sure, Abbott and Hockey ca say Plan A is "No more corporate welfare"! but then you need a Plan B, something they haven't got!
Sure,Napthine can say plan A is "More corporate welfare" but then you need a Plan B, something they haven't got!
We need that Plan B!

With that, I'm off to see an 'Island Band', and a couple of beers! and meet up with the Whanau.

Paul,

"In my view the Labor opposition has two functions, one, highlight the governments failing and secondly offer an alternative policy/view, "

Yes that was the coalition's objective too. The question is not what the game is, rather your opinion on how it is being played.

Belly,

You claim that Abbott was far worse, but perhaps it is because Juliar and Rudd gave him more to work with. The BER fiasco, the debt, the boats, the carbon tax lie, and dozens of other smaller broken promises were all strong ammunition that labor gave to Abbott on a plate.

Here we have Shorten opposing everything, even the budget savings Rudd promised in the election, the turn back policy that has clearly worked, the carbon tax removal that Rudd promised, and the Royal commission into the corrupt unions that bankroll labor.

If Shorten has a policy agenda, what is it? What is Labor going to do that didn't get it into trouble last time.

Shorten's popularity, and labor's primary vote is slumping, and unless Shorten gains traction on an issue, he is gone before 2016.

IT's not a matter of who governs its a matter of doing it fairly. All Abbott is interested in is bringing down the unions, and he will do anything to achieve that. Napthine has shown reason and proper leadership.
Abbott is not a liberal, he is a nothing.
3 billion worth of drones for boarder protection, shows how confident their stop the boats, and give them lifeboats for longer trips policy.
The next thing you know they will be turning up in QLD, could even be here now.

Yes Paul, the word is sustainability, and that's one thing the union/labor aliance just can't see.

Everyone takes a hit when times are tough, then, if they survive that hit, they get rewarded with increases for their efforts, everyone that is, except for union backed workers.

They need to understands that at times, to get a little, you must also give a little, and they (the unions) won't budge.

579, although I am against throwing good money after bad, I must say that at least the sate lib leader has made his offer conditional.

It's just a pity Toyotas last had out wasn't handled by someone lime him. Because at least there would have been conditions, rather than what has proven to be faules promises.

Business is no different, if they want something, they must give something in return, as they have in SPC's case.

Abbott needed SPC to fold for his own agenda, and nothing less. Our GDP is up 200 million to 1.5 trillion $.
Holden ford and toyota are going to cost the GDP 20 billion over five years. Unless that is replaced we are going to be in real turmoil. Putting people out of work will add to the downfall of the GDP even further. Abbott wants to end up like the USA where it's dog eat dog.
He has an agenda

Again a thread trying to tell us black is white and white does not exist.
I have no need to debate such twaddle.
But confirm my prediction Abbott will be replaced before his first term ends.

Belly,

Look at the latest Fairfax poll where Labor's and Shortens dramatic slump shows that the Royal commission is very popular, and Abbott's accusation that Labor is running a "protection racket" for the unions is hitting home.

Shorten also comes with a lot of baggage, his background as a union heavy weight, and as a back stabber is not going to help him.

"WILL the royal commission into union corruption show the ALP has been partly funded by the proceeds of crime? Probably. This, for Tony Abbott, would be the cherry on top.

This story won’t be about the odd bad apple. This story will be about the apple orchard, how it is organised and where the distribution chain leads. So many apples end up in so many powerful places. We will see how that happens and who pays.

We will see how the union movement controls public policy through its wholly-owned subsidiary, the Australian Labor Party. We will get context around how Julia Gillard became prime minister and identify those who could have prevented it.

The infamous box of Slater & Gordon documents being fought over by Bruce Wilson and the Victoria Police in the Supreme Court will be accessed. We will be able to tell who is likely to be charged for the AWU scandal, both the original act and the cover-up. The money given by business to unions will be laid bare.

It is not illegal for executives to give money to unions, but we need to know what the business gets in return and how much that costs the rest of us. A class of professional enablers will be revealed; the people in law, finance and superannuation who help unions do dodgy deals. We will see how some union people sell us a story of the poor and powerless to make themselves rich and powerful. But, most important, we will see ALP-affiliated unions for what they are; a tax-exempt business empire, our very own legalised mafia, geared to feed cash and candidates to the Labor Party machine."

SM, Abbott has a trump card in his Royal Commission that is for sure. The danger is, if it not only throws plenty of dirt over the unions, which undoubtedly it will do, but if it also uncovers business complicity in the whole sordid affair, which is also a possibility.
The big winners over the life of this parliament may well be minor parties and independents. Abbott is looking at a souring economy, with rising unemployment, never a good thing for the government of the day. I think Labor is in for another torrid time with infighting and finger pointing.
Some may say, Paul1405 would say that as he is a Green and they are one of those minor parties that would benefit. Not necessarily, it could well be others like PUP, and who knows, that benefit from general disillusionment with the major parties.
Naturally, I detect some political bias in your above, but generally it’s a good post.
I'm not about to put the boot into Shorten, but well before the election I posted my thoughts on the bloke, so it’s not a case of me jumping onto the band wagon. Very difficult for anyone to take over as opposition leader after the party has been given the flick and later emerge as PM, takes an exceptional person to do that, Shorten in my view is not exceptional, but Labor have locked themselves in with him, through the Rudd convention.

Paul,

You are looking waaaaaay too small. Originally, TA was looking to re instate the BCC in which Shorten was instrumental in dismantling. Bill indicated that he intended to block this and TA outmaneuvered him by threatening a Royal commission with wide powers, and linking Bill and Labor with Union corruption "protection racket". Bill countered claiming the RC was waste of money and eventually proposed a much weaker alternative. It is now clear that Billy boy serious mis read the public mood.

Here is how I see a worst case scenario for Labor:

Firstly the RC runs for about a year. The damning recommendations come out implicating people in the unions business and labor. Prosecutions are recommended and prosecutions of those implicated incl present and former union and Labor MPs starts and continues through 2016 in the lead up to the elections.

Labor loses so badly that it almost loses the status as opposition in the house, and goes bankrupt.

Polls?
That Fairfax-Nielsen Poll was taken on a late shopping night, a Friday night and a hot Saturday from landlines only, which rules out nearly everyone under 28 and anyone who in summertime is out of the house drinking beer - like 90 percent of all single people.

It has a ‘margin of error’ of 2.6 percent - possibly putting Labor on 51.6 percent, pretty close to the 52 it scores on Morgan, the accurate one.

There have been previous polls that remain unpublished - probably because they don't support Abbott as much as the pollsters would like - particularly the Murdoch-owned Newspoll ones.

(The Liberal Party is a wholly-owned subsidiary of New Limited?)

The real point of the polls is whatever happened to Abbott's "honeymoon?"

He should be riding high on a wave of euphoria but people are beginning to see that he doesn't have any plans for the future and all the previous alleged crises have been replaced with ones of his own making.

Rache,

You are one of my favourite left whingers. Please keep on believing that:

>Labor's policies are OK, and that they just need to sell them better,
>Labor lost because of the discord between Juliar and Dudd,

and all the other reasons for labor not to change, and the coalition will be in power for a decade or more.

Rache - Morgan "The accurate one"? You mean the one that says Labour will always win lol. All the other stuff you wrote is just fluff and nonsense, for goodness sake just go out on a Saturday/Friday night anyway.
Why worry, you are stuck with good Government until 2016 and only one election counts anyway.

Shadow Minister/JBower,

I look forward to the day when you stop attacking the middle as a way of justifying the flawed policies of the right- or do two wrongs somehow make a right?

Rache,

I hope you are not trying to define Labor as the "middle"

And attacking the unions for corruption is bad?