I see the coalition is revisiting the work for the dole scheme.

It's just a pity they are referring to it as unpaid work.

The math is simple, take the basic wage rate, divide it into the dollar amount, gives you a number of hours and that's the hours that MUST BE WORKED during that fortnight.

If you choose to live where no jobs are available, either travel to your designated place of work, move, or be cut off. It's that simple.

The time is here to stop the scammers because our tax dollars are être he'd enough without having them wasted on misfits with no intentions of finding work.

Rehctub,
I am all for it but one problem is the amount of administration, supervision, insurance etc involved offsets the productivity or cost benefit of employing the recipient.
It could in many cases cost more to have some of these people about the shop than it would just to pay them.
Solve that and you have a goer.
Take it easy.
SD

Ah! Work For The Dole, I remember it well I had an underpaid supervisory position with a tourist railway.
Mainly track maintenance and ground beautification around the Station; overall it was a disaster although we did get some good workers.
One of the reasons for its limited success apart from the plain hopeless was being sent slightly built girls to do heavy manual labour.

Another aspect is that if businesses can get cheap labour then they are not going to get the local handyman to do a bit of repair work.
I saw WFTD cost some people in country towns a goodly slice of their expected income because their services weren't required.

Bring in a scheme by all means but make it full time work on National or State projects and at award rates of pay otherwise it is just a waste of time and money so that politicians can be seen to be doing something.

It wont work, rehctub. It will only be a short term fix. Technology is moving faster than we could create chain gangs. Just look at the implications of something like Bitcoin. If it were to be widely accepted and in my mind will be in the future. When that happens, the whole financial industry will be lining up to sweep roads!

You have major retailers installing self serve checkouts, Google have just purchased Boston Dynamics, a quite advanced robotics innovator and another company making net enabled smart devices for your home. Another company has just released a burger making machine that can make 350 burgers and hour, to order. Restaurants are now taking advantage of cheep tablet devices and imbedding them in all their tables, negating the need for waitresses. A computer gaming company has written an AI that can write and create new games. Technology is fast making humans obsolete.

In the not too distant future, your chain gangs will be longer than the longest road!

I don't like it either rehctub.
While these dole recipients are supposedly working for the dole, they aren't looking for real jobs.
Meanwhile, people looking for real jobs will be undercut by those forced to work for the dole. What 'jobs' would the dole recipients do that wouldn't cut others out of jobs?

And you can't just cut anyone off the dole. What happens if they have kids?
Crime would rise terribly as these people stole to survive.

I don't know what the answer is, but I always thought giving the dole recipients more coupons than cash, so they have the food, rent etc covered, but aren't too comfortable with much cash to use. Maybe that would push them towards paid employment?

On the other hand, there are obviously many people out there who are virtually unemployable, and we can't force these people into working at anything.
I think our country is wealthy enough to wear those dole payments.

"Bring in a scheme by all means but make it full time work on National or State projects and at award rates of pay otherwise it is just a waste of time and money so that politicians can be seen to be doing something."

Is Mise, that smacks of communism or national socialism at the very least. For years we had many unofficial forms of what you speak of. Here in NSW the biggest public employer, used to sop up the unemployed, was The NSW State Railways. One of the incentives for many of the past state infrastructure projects, like the Sydney Harbor Bridge was to relieve unemployment. In its basic form it was called relief work. On a international scale Hitler used socialism like that in Germany in the 1930's, he also stuck lots of people in the army as well, I wonder why. In America a center piece of Roosevelt's 'New Deal' policy was exactly that. Not to mention the cost factor to all this, one off the biggest "problems" trying to do what you say is today, unlike yesterday, huge projects do not require huge numbers of unskilled or semi skilled labour. You simply don't need 10,000 people to build a bridge, no matter how much you try to inflate the work force.

cont.

cont

Shaggy Dog, you to are right, but if you try to gain a real cost benefit, forget it its not there to be had for the very reasons you point out.
Here is a hypothetical for you. In Bumtown population 10,000, there are 3,000 unemployed, the government being stung by the report on last nights 'Tomorrow Yesterday' current affairs program about the unemployment problem in Bumtown, has set aside $40 million to relieve unemployment in the town. You as Mayor of Bumtown and head of the local council has been give the sole responsibility to "implement a program" that will see unemployment PERMANENTLY (operative word) disappear in Bumtown. You have plenty of cash and total control to do it.
At present the local councils work force consists of 200 locals, it is by far the biggest employer in the district, doing a good job for the community, the council keeps the town looking and functioning ok, the ratepayers are happy. By the way, the government wants QUICK RESULTS. Go to it. Anyone? I don't know what I would do.

Suze, if someone has a genuine job interview, I am sure they could be relieved to attend such. However, we are talking about 15 hours per week, which leaves plenty of time for interviews.

The other point is that having a job (WFTD) usually gives people a sense of belonging and contributing, often increasing personal confidence, a huge tool when seeking genuine employment.

It will be a very interesting topic to keep an eye on.

Butch, the unemployment capital of NSW is the town of Nowra 2 hours south of Sydney population 35,000 90% Australian born, the "visible" unemployed in the town are generally youngish and unskilled and long term unemployed their prospects of employment in the town, nil, but rents are cheap. The employment capital of NSW is Sydney population 4,500,000, with concentrations of areas with high and low unemployment. The employment prospects for the unskilled generally low to fair. Rents in Sydney high, housing in short supply. Between Nowra and Sydney the biggest difference, besides population, is the cost of rent. What would you do with the unemployed in Nowra?
If you choose to live where no jobs are available (Nowra), either travel to your designated place of work (Sydney), move (to Sydney), or be cut off (Turn to crime). It's that simple. Do you have another answer?

Paul'

As we are a very socialist oriented country, I see no problem for the Government to initiate 'pick and shovel' jobs to employ people.
Increasing the Armed Forces is a good idea as well.

In India jobs are kept low tech just to employ more people.
I was travelling on Indian Railways two years ago on a Complementary Free Pass and accompanied a District Engineer on a run up the Ghats to the south-east of Mumbai.
I remarked on the fact that the men were using hand operated mechanical saws to cut rails to length and that sleepers were being replaced by hand.
He explained that although the work took longer to do, the quite heavy traffic was not disrupted, except by being slowed by speed restrictions.
Whereas if they used the modern track machines, the machines would block the line and have to go to the nearest siding to get out of the way and thus slow everything down.

The Great Northern Railway from Armidale to the Queensland border would be an excellent place to start a hundred men or so to refurbish the line.

The main reason for work for the dole is to get people to decide they might as well go to work. It also reduces the number working for cash in hand, while collecting the dole. Around here that is a very large percentage.

Still, there is much work in national parks & forestry that could be moderately effectively done by the unemployed. Clearing out weeds, cats, dogs & pigs would be useful.

At the same time, there is high unemployment in older middle executives. Many, if not most of these people could organize & control this labor force very easily, as their work for the dole, & would mostly welcome something useful to do with their time.

As for people being unemployable, have a look at the Endeavour Foundation. I'm not sure it was cost advantageous, or even effective, but I used them for quite a bit of packaging, requiring a product, with some ancillary bits & instructions. When they had good management they were excellent, & the people enjoyed going to work.

Most can be accommodated, & if it got even 10% of the long-term unemployed actually looking for work, it would be a win all round.

Suseonline, "I think our country is wealthy enough to wear those dole payments"

It isn't "the country" that is paying for them. The "country" aka the government has no money. The money comes from taxpayers. The taxpayers are fed up.

There would not be a week go by where I don't hear a complaint from tradies that they cannot get workers, either to train or simply labour. It isn't 'dole payments' is it? The problem is bludgers who will not go to work. Go to the houses where they are receiving rent assistance and you will see that they cannot be bothered doing any minor maintenance either. In fact they would rather stub out their cigarettes in the mortar between house bricks than use an ash tray.

Your solution is?

I agree with Hasbeen's suggestions, and wonder if some recipients could also participate in useful capacity with various volunteer organisations like the Smith Family, Vinnies or Landcare groups, or with various youth groups designed to foster education, sports and possibly basic hand skills such as carpentry, auto maintenance, car detailing, spray painting or welding, house-painting, carpet-laying, and such, or horticulture, bee-keeping, fish breeding and maintenance, etc. There may be many possibilities, mostly designed to foster skill-development.

Of course, some such skills development would preferably be provided at the local high school or tech college, possibly on weekends, and would probably require the hiring of additional educators or the provision of overtime, but could still be very beneficial. In due course, some showing talent may be inspired to seek formal technical education or possibly an apprenticeship or other advanced education.
Better to be acquiring skills than just sitting at home, or possibly getting into mischief.

Such development may not be easy, but the effort could be very beneficial, both to a district and to recipients.
In the end result, we need more jobs, but some participants may end up being motivated and assisted to start their own small business, or at least to have confidence that they can hold down a job when one becomes available.
Possibilities for a win-win, but it won't happen unless we try, unless we are fair-dinkum about it.

Picking up litter in the local park will always rate a far distant second to spending time with the greens-keeper, groundsman or gardener at the local golf course, park or playing field, or with volunteers at a local communal produce-garden.

Paul, the whole idea of the scheem is to get people out of the habit of doing nothing, and get paid to do so.

There is no reason why a bus can't be deployed, to pick people up from low employment areas, ferry them to work sites, even if it turns out they only work a couple of hours per shift, due to travel.

They will soon get very sick and tired of being put out to a point where their life on the dole is interrupted.

We could also look at areas such as our hospitals which are obviously under staffed.

Take the laundry for an example.

If we promoted people from the laundry, placed them into cleaning wards, then promoted those cleaning wards to....... The list goes on.

Meanwhile, the work for the dole people could man the washing machines under supervision of cause and, anyone caught running a muck would receive ONE warning, then get sent home and cut off.

The main problem with out system is that provided one searches for work, they remain on the dole, even if their mission is to be sacked. Enough is enough!

While no system is perfect, the current one is broken and to do nothing is simply fueling the broken system.

All previous attempts at working for the dole had very limited success, and cost far more to maintain.
This is version three, what will make this time around any different.
Vehicles and equipment, cost plenty without the normal working environment costs.
Butch is shooting from the hip just like our fearless leader, without thinking about the consequences involved.
How do you plan to eliminate the associated costs involved, without blowing the budget sky high, as have been previous cases.

I can not get my self in to a sweat here.
See I too in my threads about welfare and past ones.
Say this country needs such a scheme.
Last night I watched a TV show telling us off and showing us, a man who has been on the dole for 28 years!
28 years!
Any one share my view reform is long over due for those who over look such failure in the system?
I understand not every reform is going to be good but lets us be honest no reform insults us all by helping a 28 year veteran and his like bludge on us.

Gee! 28 years in Parliament; must be bored by now.

Work for the Dole is only meaningful if you work for normal pay rate & after you have worked to earn as much as the value of the Dole you can knock off.
Much wiser to put the young ones into a national Service paid for by the same coffers as the Dole. NS offers the building of a healthier mentality, the Dole does the opposite & we definitely don't need any more depressed non-thinkers.
But first let's buy a huge alarm clock to wake up the whole country, much easier listening than some insane howling from an onion shaped tower at half past three am.

Many good suggestions here, do it while the government has the money.
Local councils have hundreds of jobs that they do not have the money
to undertake. Sure many of them are titivating the appearance of the
town, but even that has the effect of improving the spirit of the community.
Just curbing and guttering many streets that otherwise never would be
done would be a good thing.

Ask the councils I am sure they would come up with a list as long as your arm.

I remember the work for the dole in the 70's. The Burdekin Shire Council got a team of women together to paint the Road Xings & anything else that needed painting in the Shire. They worked themselves out of a job in 6 months & the Union complained that they were, "breaking down conditions." (actually doing something.) They were sacked because the Council Workers were going to go on strike. They had been put to shame & the whole town gave them a hard time over it.

Actually I like the Singapore Work for the dole system. In Singapore everybody has to be doing something. Low skilled go around & wipe all the bench seats, Pick up any rubbish they can find in the streets, etc. That's a bit of a competition. Skilled people are placed with firms until they find employment. People with higher education mentor any students who are failing subjects. Mind you if the Government finds you a job, you dam well go, or it's the rattan. The big advantage with Singapore is, of course, is that it's a tiny island.

There is a problem with some low skilled people in Australia who are permanently on the dole. Some of these people have IQ are around the 50 to 60 mark due to the dilution of the Gene pool. Unfortunately there is not much that can be done for them. I know, That's Politically inappropriate, never the less, true. Sometime, sooner or later we have to take our heads out of the sand & face that reality.

At he other end of the scale there are others who think they are too good to do anything other than sit in an office & take up space. They wouldn't lower themselves to something below their supposed station in life.

No matter which way you go about it the work for the dole will be an extra cost. Those people painting x crossing signs on roads have to be protected from traffic, stop go man etc which is a certified job. Every thing comes down to cost. That means the work for the dole will have to be a budgeted amount.
I feel it will be easier said than done. Rules can't be disregarded because these people are on the dole.

rehctub,
"The math is simple, take the basic wage rate, divide it into the dollar amount, gives you a number of hours and that's the hours that MUST BE WORKED during that fortnight."
Sounds good but it cannot work.
The Newstart recipients are already loving it.
Newstart allowance for a single person $501.00 p/f or $250.50 p/W
Average weekly wage in Australia $1105.00P/w
The math is 1105/38 hours = hourly rate of $29.00P/H
$250.00/29 hours = 8.6 hours a week working for the dole
This is because UN conventions and the unions have already indicated High court challenges if any other scale is used.
So where the current WFTD schedule is a daily 4 to 5 hours it will have to be reduced to 8,6 hours.

Jayb said;
Skilled people are placed with firms until they find employment.

Not necessarily skilled people, but someone on the dole could be
allocated to a company and they just stay on site and if an odd job
comes up the manager can ask the dolee to do that odd job.
After a period, the manager might find that he is a useful employee
and offer him a job.
Would have to be some rules to avoid it being fiddled but it would give
him some work experience and he would get to know people in the job.

Advances in technology are wiping out more and more jobs so there are going to be more and more people out of work.

One solution is reducing the working week and issuing employment cards to ensure that no one has two jobs at the same time.

579: Those people painting x crossing signs on roads have to be protected from traffic, stop go man etc which is a certified job.

There weren't any Stop Go men in those days. People were courteous.

Bazz: but someone on the dole could be allocated to a company and they just stay on site and if an odd job comes up the manager can ask the dolee to do that odd job.

I worked for Bretts in Brisbane before moving back North in the early 70's. They had a system like that, where, if someone was looking for a job they went there early in the morning & waited. If someone didn't turn up for work, they got a job for the day. Sometimes they got a full week. Eventually they got placed.

Thanks Jayb, that is interesting, Centrelink could take it up officially.
Many retail organisations with large number of employees, such as
Bunnings, super markets, local councils etc, a few points to be sorted
such as insurance but that would be a minor problem for anyone with a
positive mind outlook.

Bazz, I think there were a few places that did that, Holden at Acacia Ridge, Narm at Newmarket, Ford at Newstead & Golden Circle. There were a lot of Students that brought their Study material with them.

That was all the go years ago, a days casual at canneries, abattoirs etc
Would it stand up today, Even to be on the company site it involves cost, and certain clothing. I say the only way would be, is an education system that was required for new comers that start on the dole to attend daily. Persons that leave school and go directly on the dole are lacking education. But is the govt going to spend money or is soft work the only solution, which sounds like it won't cost.

There is work on infrastructure crying out to be done all over the country, old and decaying wooden road bridges for one.

Then there is the menace of trees that are tall enough to fall and block roads, particularly during bushfires, plenty of work available cutting them down and thus making our roads safer.

The work gangs could use axes, thus saving costs on fuel and equipment and gaining some healthy exercise.

For every problem there are any number of solutions. Some people only ever see problems, solutions are always someone else's problems. That's what I've been told on this Forum many times. Some people here have that attitude. If someone thinks of a solution they always come out with why it won't work.

I heard a good one many years ago. An engineer was driving along a country road to a new building site & her decided to have a chat to an old bloke sitting on his veranda. And, of course have a brag about how good he was.

He said to the old bloke, "Do you see the new construction I'm building. I measure everything to a thousandth of an inch. it'll stand up the biggest storms nature can throw at it around here. it'll be still here in 50 years."

The old bloke shifted in his chair & said, "That's OK sonny. You see this old house. I built it with my own hands 80 years ago, it's still here. Never measured a thing, made every thing to fit."

So it is with problems.

chrisgaff1000, if you read my post I said hours x basic wage, around $16 per hour.

So, $250.50 = approx 34 hours per cycle.

There are several things that can be looked at, like driveway service at garages. Imagine having your windscreen cleaned while you pump fuel. Who knows, they may even do well on tips if they are any good and, if they are any good, chances are someone will notice which may well lead to a job.

Go,for a drive And youmwill see the roadsides littered with garbage. Surely this can be picked up, because the current council budget obviously doesnt allow for this expense.

There was a guy out here who was offered a three month contract truck driving, about $1800 per week take home, with a possibility of an extension if the boss won another contract.

He turned it down because he said it was too hard to get back on the dole if you go off.

He should have been cut off!

Of cause the real solution is for us to value add our resources, but fat chance of that because we now have no money.

I think the most important thing is to get people on the dole out of the habit of simply sitting around.

I too remember the days where people turned up at workplaces hoping for a start and while they sometimes got a start, often they went home empty handed for the day, but at least they tried. They worked on the theory of, if they turned up often enough, they would get noticed.

It's not often I agree with 579, but one huge problem today is workplace compliance.

Even now as an employer you are reluctant to give a person a days work because the paperwork is simply not worth it which is one reason the contractor business is so large.

I sometime go casual butchering. I turn up at say 6am, then get sent to the office to fill out an employment declaration form, a super form, a site induction form, which results in the best part of an hour gone.

I then do my 7.6 hours,6.6 actually working and earn my $190.

The employer then has to lodge my forms, calculate my tax, allocate my super, pay my wage, pay my tax, the list goes on.

It's the red tape involved these days that is making employing people harder than ever.

This is one area that must be addressed if we wish to reduce unemployment.

rehctub. Welfare can become an institution for some, unfortunately. I absolutely agree with work for the dole. I lived with a classic example of an abuser of the system. Fit healthy 45 year old lost his license due to d.d. Sitting on his butt playing play station with his other unemployed mates daily. Rent assistance, child support, health care card. Community service was a breeze, a few cones and home early every day. Look for work? Why?
When it was suggested I cut down my hours at work, to reduce our already low rent (which I paid), I wont go into details but that was the last straw.
So oh yeah, it would serve greatly, a certain element of those receiving the dole to be seen cleaning the sides of the roads.

Folks much as I hate to say this I have a half brother who boasts that he is the longest "serving" dole bluger in the country. He is 65 and now gets to be eligible for the pension.
He props up the bar of his local bowling club and now has lung cancer FROM SMOKING AND COST THE SYSTEM MORE FOR MEDICAL
What more can I say

Two years compulsory National service for the high rate of youth unemployed would not only teach them discipline, but also give them work skills, get them off the dole, teach them respect, and turn them into productive men and women ready to enter the civilian workforce when the two years was up. After WW2, England did this. They sent off boys, who returned responsible young men with respect for authority, and eager to work at trades they had learned. Their work ethic had been well and truly established.
This would also have the effect of reducing the number of staff needed to oversee the growing number of unemployed, which in turn means the government could trim it's workforce down to those who really work, and cut out the excess mediocre public servants. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians make our present system unwieldy and expensive.
Have noticed our local Bunnings now employ more older people in their warehouse. These still retain the work ethic they had instilled when they were young, and I've seen them keep the young ones on their toes too. Think a bit of mentoring goes on there.
Yes, we are becoming more high tech, but why do our youth think manual labour is beneath them, and prefer to stay on the dole. Because their parents have raised spoiled brats maybe? National service could definitely teach them they have to earn their remuneration, rather than just being given handouts for doing nothing.

Results of research into the scheme actually showed that it was a failure in achieving better employment outcomes for participants.

At best it was a punitive scheme designed to placate the anxious taxpayer by "punishing those lazy bludgers" and making them work for those tax dollars.

I should have included references about my remark about the faiolure of the scheme.

"In 2004, the University of Melbourne undertook a study on the effectiveness of a work for the dole scheme which was funded by the Howard Government. The researchers wanted to understand how participation in a work for the dole scheme affected the time than an unemployed person spent in welfare.

Rather than promote employment, the researchers found the opposite: more than 70 per cent of participants were still receiving unemployment benefits after six months of working for the dole.

http://dtl.unimelb.edu.au/R/P692Y5V34JJX6RHUDVT1TGMNMDLI46H1RPGX2DD6IG1S9HRRX2-01161?func=dbin-jump-full&object_id=66032&local_base=GEN01&pds_handle=GUEST&pds_handle=GUEST

This was more than 10 per cent higher than those who were not on the work for the dole scheme. This research mirrors other international studies conducted in Europe and the United States.

Dr John Falzon, CEO of St Vincent de Paul Society National Council, says that work for the dole had limited success and “blaming the poor for their poverty” should have no place in framing government policy.

Unfortunately, it appears that once again welfare policy is being driven by ideology, rather than evidence.

If indeed Abbott’s brand of conservative politics has its ideological roots in the conservative Christian tradition of the United States, then the ‘undeserving poor’ will rapidly join ‘asylum seekers’ as scapegoats in the trending toxic themes of conservative government in Australia".

wobbles: Dr John Falzon, CEO of St Vincent de Paul Society National Council, says that work for the dole had limited success and “blaming the poor for their poverty” should have no place in framing government policy.

Political correctness at work again.

World watcher: Two years compulsory National service for the high rate of youth unemployed would not only teach them discipline, but also give them work skills, get them off the dole, teach them respect, and turn them into productive men and women ready to enter the civilian workforce when the two years was up.

This approach worked up until the early 70's. Then the army realized that they need a better educated soldier to handle the modern weapons systems.

I do believe that there should be a type of National Service for 12 months that would teach discipline & respect for the first 3 months (boot camp) then some type of skills course. E.g; Fire Brigade, Ambulance Bearer, Search & Rescue, Truck driving, etc. I don't know what you are going to do with the ones that only have an IQ of 80 or below.

Jayb,
The unions block you every time. They demand W.F.D participants must be paid par rate with other rates otherwise it is slavery and unionist lose out on paid work.
I remember when the NSW government built a 25 million dollar laundry attached to Parramatta goal. It was to give the prisoners meaningful employment whilst providing a service to all the hospitals and nursing homes in Sydney.
It lasted 12 months and the prisoners loved it. They got a little more in their accounts to spend each week and the service was excellent.
The unions demanded they be paid the full wage rate.
The place has been derelict fort 20 years.
Always the unions mate.

Chrisgaff1000: The unions demanded they be paid the full wage rate.
The place has been derelict fort 20 years.

Yes, there always have been some downsides to Unions. This latest fuss with the Unions taking kick backs is nothing new. I worked briefly for the Building industry when I left the Army. Every time we went to a new job everybody had a new name with a dozen kids. The Union came around & gave you a new profile. The Waterside workers were the worst. They had gangs that specifically employed to go through Containers & pinch stuff. One gang was the Waterside Workers Committee. They got caught pinching half a container of Transistor Radios. (1970) The Union said they would strike (sorry stop work) they weren't allowed to strike, if the Secretary, Treasurer & all the committee Members were charged. They were suspended for 6 months. Strangely a Container of paint disappeared just after that. Every Warfie got their house painted in that 6 months. I was their Barman, they get told everything.

Corruption in the Unions, tell me about it.

JayB,

Heartily agree with you. Too many of today's youth have no sense of purpose, except to get drunk every weekend and pop dodgy pills to get high. As an ex soldier, you especially would know that 3 months boot camp, followed by some basic skills training would be highly beneficial for them and the rest of our society. Their motor reflexes should already be pretty good, as they are well honed by the mindless games they constantly play on their expensive gadgets - bought with their dole money?
Corruption by some top tier union officials now being partially exposed suggests they aspire to these positions as a matter of self interest. Yet they still persuade their members to pay their dues to support them and their elevated lifestyles. How they can fool so many hard working people into supporting them is beyond my comprehension. I would lay part of the blame on them for so many companies going offshore, by inciting their members to ask for higher wages without the workers increasing productivity in return. Dare I suggest that they have outlived their usefulness?

Alot of agreeing here.:)

If work for the dole comes in, with a bit of notice, there would be some who try a little harder and land a job.
Some who upon receiving their assigned 'work for the dole' position/job will get out and have a go maybe even enjoy the physical activity and a bit of a boost. Off on the right foot.

Then there are the hard ones. Not the hard basket this time, serious intervention. Intro to boot camp. 99% guarantee in three months your nightmare will will walk out a completely changed person. Manners, respect, responsibility all the good stuff!

Fifteen years ago Boot Camp became a dream of mine. The thought of sending all the teenage/early twenties nightmares,lurking around and doing not much else, off for three months was a blessed opportunity. Parents get to restore some sanity, and the kids, a well deserved wake up call.

Boot Camp?

Never heard the expression in my years in/with the army except in American films; ah well! I suppose that's part of the price that we pay for entente and cheap entertainment.

Is Mise

Actually, you are obviously unaware that the American armed forces call it boot camp too.

Is Mise I can assure you my suggestions of boot camp, re-integration of those who have become a burden on society to that of same semblance of respect and civility, was not prompted from watching 'television'