In terms of the history of money it very much relates to the paying for something like goods and services. What would occur however, if we were to move towards a system of bartering - like what happened in the past, where I could exchange an item and offer a service?

Simple answer. In this day and age we, in Australia and other well off countries seem desperate for cash, in my view more than ever. Why though? Money is something that comes out like a piece of paper from an ATM, a pressed piece of metal or some typed numbers on a computer screen. A system like mentioned before, however would see all people worldwide have to re-evaluate their lives.

To get a cash free policy introduced worldwide would be difficult. A lot of people living in Australia are obsessed with expensive brand name items, so giving up money would be difficult. When will people give back to their local community - no cash required? When will people be willing to help a neighbour and exchange or give something for nothing - and not always focus on the dollar sign?

Personally I am offended by money. When I see someone pay $200 for a piece of expensive plastic sunglasses and I think of people in third world countries - I feel how long will we stay obsessed in this lifelong grab for cash - and are we willing to move to very different and alternative economic systems?

All good questions, NathanJ.

>>What would occur however, if we were to move towards a system of bartering<<

There is of course no reason whatsoever why you could not operate a bartering system unilaterally. If you have something to offer, and that something is acceptable to another person, who in turn has something that you are happy to receive, then there is nothing at all to stop you making that trade.

This will bring you immediately up against your first problem: how do the two of you meet?

To do this efficiently, you will need some form of Exchange - a central point where you can place your offer on the table, and see what others are offering at the same time. To an extent, this already exists in numerous online marketplaces, except that a monetary value is attributed to each offer.

There may be some side-effects, even if you are able to establish a barter-only value exchange. What do you do if no-one wants what you have to offer? How do the elderly, without the means to create anything of significant value, eat?

On a broader front again, you mention international trade:

>>When I see someone pay $200 for a piece of expensive plastic sunglasses and I think of people in third world countries<<

Given that those sunglasses might just be manufactured in that third-world country, how would you manage the value chain that converts their labour into your sunnies? What would you be able to offer those workers in the Luxottica factories in Dongguan and Gaobu , for example, that is an improvement over what they can get today? If you were able to harness their capabilities and reach agreement on an exchange, how would you effect the transfer...?

Sadly (or not) the reality is that money has been gradually developed and adopted over the years and an extremely efficient replacement for barter. Returning to that mode of living would require nothing short of an apocalyptic event.

Which is of course not at all out of the question...

Money is an efficient means of exchange and simplifies the process. However there is room within the system for barter particularly at a local level. Programs like LETS enable people to barter food, services or goods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_exchange_trading_system

Some of the postings over time have been similar to: "Will do weeding in exchange for babysitting" or similar. There are also at a local level markets where people can swap vegetables they grow for ones they don't. Groups like WWOOF allow travellers to stay for free on farms in exchange for labour.

In the sunglasses example, they most likely cost little to manufacture in less than satisfactory working conditions with barely a living wage. The final value of the glasses may not be fairly distributed throughout the chain which makes the purchase seem unpalatable.

Your post reminds me of Bitcoin which in effect is another form of money (which I don't quite understand).

Trading systems exist and they are very good - but limited. We must move beyond that - to a different free market system. That means if I want something I need to have - like food, I get it for free - meaning all people who need food get it. It also means people need to reconsider what they do in their lives as a result - so no more $2.00 shops. These shops limit a persons ability to contribute to our society. Why? Because they have to work for cash - education is better. As for the elderly, people will need to contribute, even work with the elderly (as professionals) as they will one day be elderly. Also the elderly have a lot to offer - more than people think. Money and how it is used at present creates so many social and ethical problems worldwide and we need to reconsider our attitude at present. Governments and economic experts won't like it - but what about our world, all of its people and the environment in which we live?

It's not money that's the problem IMHO, It's how currency is created.

Giving a privileged few the power to create currency at will, out of thin air is what's causing all the problems and having a system of banking where the few get to manipulate the many with their privilege.

The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

If you're interested, Pelican...

>>Your post reminds me of Bitcoin which in effect is another form of money (which I don't quite understand)<<

...here's the skinny on Bitcoin...

http://brokenlibrarian.org/bitcoin/

"Short Version

1) Should I buy Bitcoins?

No.

2) But I keep seeing all this stuff in the news about them and how

No. Tech journalism is uniformly terrible, always remember this.

3) How does this sh!t work? It doesn't make any sense!

No, it really doesn't. It's impossible to accurately explain Bitcoin in anything less than mind-numbingly boring technical terms so you should probably just not worry about it. Go do something useful instead."

To borrow a phrase from the Hitchhiker, the style settles down after a while. But it is highly entertaining, and I recommend it to everyone.

Here's another snippet...

"Bitcoin was discovered by three types of people. First, there were the internet libertarian types who liked the idea of a currency that was not controlled by a government. For them, Bitcoin represented an ideology. Second, there were people who wanted to use Bitcoin as a semi-anonymous international currency for illegal transactions, such as drugs, weapons, or illicit pornography, as well as a possible method for laundering money. For them, Bitcoin represented safety from the law. Third, there were people who viewed Bitcoin as a method to get rich by getting in on the ground floor of a new kind of money. These people saw Bitcoin as an investment.

The history of Bitcoin is too complicated to go into detail here, but these three groups shaped the Bitcoin network and community into what it is today, which is a gigantic goddamn mess of idiocy, greed, and bad decisions."

Barter is much, much easier...

You have to admit though, Pericles. It has some interesting features. However, from a technical point of view I don't see how it can be maintained if it was to become the worlds currency system. I think the ledger is around 5 gigabytes at the moment. Even on our fast networks, that's a lot of data to download all the time to stay current.

I do agree, though. It's a pyramid scheme that will hurt many.

'To get a cash free policy introduced worldwide would be difficult. '

yes its about control Nathan. The bottom line is that the current economic system is not sustainable and will collapse at some stage (maybe sooner than we think). You can't however legislate against greed. It can only be dealt with by a heart change.

It is ironical that the people who make the most noise about sustainabilty etc are often jetting off on public funded excursions telling everyone else how greedy they are.

Thanks for the link Pericles. Very informative. Coincidentally ABC 7.30 Report had a piece on Bitcoin tonight. Seems very volatile.

runner
I wish many more corporations would use a bit more heart and take responsiblity for their ethical standards. The system unfortunately rewards greed to some extent and many big corps are protected by the 'too big to fail' phenomenon.

Nathan the existence of money is not the reason why people in third world countries suffer poor living conditions.

The fact is, if the money system that the world universally uses didn't exist, then we'd still have countries that do well and countries that do badly.

The existence of money - does equal poor living standards. Well off countries are simply not willing to properly assist - because cash dominates their minds.

The current Liberal government aims to cut our foreign aid budget - with many raising concerns.

For me it's the more we give re basic assistance, the more we'll get back business wise and help countries move to a better, independent, sustainable way of living.

The poor in less well off countries, simply don't have money to spend. Their official currency is therefore invisible. To make their life sustainable we must be willing to donate - no cash attached.

Nathan, that's correct, the existence of money does affect countries. It affects poor countries. It affects rich countries.

My point is, even if the money system didn't exist, there would STILL be countries that are doing well, and countries that are doing badly.

Phillip,

Lets face up to reality.

In 2013 we had over 1000 people die in a factory collapse in Bangladesh, which makes clothing for stores including in Australia, with people working there earning a few dollars per hour. On television I was shocked.

Many people protested on the streets and people were devastated as family members were killed and still under the rubble.

Countries in the western world only keep this going - through their 'grab for cash'. If we took your approach - we would just give up - and we should not. It is also difficult for people in poor countries needing 'money' with limited services, housing, food and in many cases lack of democratic government.

You are very lucky you are still living - and that includes myself.

Nathan, I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm saying that if the world's money system didn't exist, we'd STILL have countries that do well, and countries that do badly.

philips,
yes and, there are also those factors of wise & unwise, go-getters & lazies, useful & useless etc etc.
In countries such as Australia the single most important factor in the unfair distribution of wealth is that good people do nothing to change it.

"We must move beyond that - to a different free market system. That means if I want something I need to have - like food, I get it for free..."

Interesting sounding 'system'. What else can I get for free?

But it is confusing, since it sounds spookily similar to the systems pursued by pirates, bandits and raiders throughout history.

Surely, at heart, all 'systems' of exchange are bartering... it is just that most are based upon a standard of measurement, which is called money.

Even Bitcoin - whose proselytizers profit when they trade and convert its vapourware into fiat currencies.

if I want something I need to have - like food, I get it for free..."
Wm Trevor,
Knock on my door & I'll give you a free you know what. :-)

Philips,

People need to willing to take away movement from money and assist where they can. I do, volunteering with three not for profit groups. I 'ex' change myself to assist. I give up some spare time - this is not cash - nor do I get a receipt.

Will it solve every worldwide problem? No - but what it will do is help some and hopefully encourage others to volunteer.

The other day I got a 20 cents in change after going to a shop - what for? I felt like throwing it away.

People should be willing to donate - without stealing - but unfortunately its too old fashioned in the eyes of many materialistic 'I want trendy item' Australians.

why..WE NEED TO end the cash grab..is..because its not cash...they are grabbing..ITS DEBT.

see how..wars sent..the true money system broke.
[destruction/SIMPLY..isnt productive..who would HAVE THUNK IT

[see BY our constitution/SAYS...''states..shall not make anything..BUT GOLD silver..COIN..a legal tender'..]

and that worked fine..but..DURING WW1/WW2..GOVTS Issued war bonds
AND BANKERs colluded to steal..all govts gold silver..by buying up THE DISCOUNTED PAPER..FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR..FROM IGNORANT/ loyalists..who exchanged their silver gold coins..for the paper.

THEN..THEY Demanded immediate payment..IN GOLD/Silver[as the notes promised..'PAY BEARER..in sterling silver''../via common wealth bank..etc

the first bankruptcy..BY BANKERS..forced the creation..of the fed
THE SECOND SAW THe bankers take over the fed/the mint etc..

but im putting in a lot 0f effort here..at huge cost to myself
in fighting THE SYSTEM..[a computer per year..GOVT DECLARED WAR ON ME[CUT OFF MY PENSION..3 YEARS AGO..then but a few MONTHS AGO..spers took LIEN..ON mY HOME..[ON PAPER]..FOR NOT Paying my 'debt'..in paper.[i only hold coin/lawful tender.

but the corrupted system..that by treason..HAS DEBASED THE SILVER GOLD CONTENT FROM THE QUEENS COIN..[ie treason]..creates unlimited..CREDIT/unable to ever be re Payed LAWFULLY/THUS THEY EVER INFLATE THE FIAT DEBT..NOT EVER ABle to be re payed

inflation too has further debased..the values of our coin
WHERE 1 PENNY..once bought..two dollars is now its price..[in..fiat tender]..

its further complicated..by tax..we might say TAX WAS INVENTED VIA WAR BONDS..[Income tax..was installed to steal our coin/but income isnt wage/INCOME..IS THAT EARNED WITHOUT A VALUE ADDING WAGE COMPONANT[like tax or fees or fines ..or INTEREST[yes EVEN INFLATION]

BUT THE WHOLE SYSTEM HAS BECOME CORRUPTED[in fact the only proof of the treason..is who holds the credIT/ASSET..PLUS WHO HOLDS THE DEBT[us]

money was a good means..of value[a great store of value/till they debased the queens coin[anyhow decades AGO..I INTRODUCED GODS MONEY/Payable like NOTES USED to be in value[not COIN/BUT SEED]..BUT I BEEN BANKRUPTED BY THE SYSTEM..IN TRYING TO explain it..to those not listening

Google WIKISEED/WIKIGELD..THATS MY MESSY STORY
IM ON MY DEATH BED..[KILLED BY MY own queens/servants]..[OR RATHER Their statuteD fictions]

SO take or leave it..IM JUST TOO TIRED/SICK AND FED UP..

to further explain[bit coin..seems about them..USING YOUR COMPUTER/so huge computer capacity..get huge bit coin/Cash..so a usa govt agency..holds one third of the junk[cause they are the globes BIGGEST Drug traders..LOL]

they are currently/tryING TO CASH..them in
thats just the last..bubble to burst..

[the GOVT HAS BECOME Amateur hour..as we elect party stooges..to allow these crimes against humanity TO GO ON

ITS TREASON ALL ROUND..they sLOW KILLED me for daring to talk
NORMALY I WOULD CONTINUE..with links..mainly from here
http://whatreallyhappened.com/
OR HERE
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php

but its easier..to say they want energy uNITS
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/LECTRO/lectro.php

but A global/carbon tax would do just fine
thaNK GOD IM NEAR OUT OF THIS HELL

[PS MY REPLY..IS REGARDED AS BARTER
its a bit messy..should be polished up

but with nutters you get what you goT
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/01/15/35-things-the-ruling-cabal-does-not-want-you-to-know/

[ignore the alien/bull at tHE END.]
Actually, this is a not-so-clever piece of "poison-the-well" propaganda because after it lists some very real issues this article then launches into UFOs and space aliens in an effort to make the whole list look silly.

how do we get 'OUT/OF IT'..[nothing simpLER]
govt seizes back..the mint..govt retuRNS..baCK..to lawfull tender

govt simply tAkes bacK..the coinage[allows bankers to have THEir Fiat notess/more pRoperly called bonds/EXCEpt they bond DEBT...not credit.

anyhow..return to coin..but first raise a bond issUE..to do it..on behalf of the peoPLE..of the commonwealth..that will be payed back..in laWfull tender[coin]

once the coin issue is dispersed equaly to each..living being..in the commonwealth..the face value of thE coin..is simply restored to its traditional values..as if STILL..in weight of gold or silver

THIS..sees the values of our coin..restored
the debasement..of hrh coin..is reversed

basicly..one cent SHALL..revalue as oNE dollar
5 cent=5 dollars etc..one dollar coin-100 dollarS
and the 2 dollar coin=two hundred[thats how the vaLUE OF OUR COIN-age will return to honour

kids will demand cOIN..not FIAT..paper
all of a sudden..we poor can repay..our debts in full
we begin consuming..we spend..our tRUE VALUE..coin..and govt only pays out BY COIN.

the coinage..need not pass..it needs preservation and protection
thats why hrh head is ON IT..to have debased it is criminal
but tHE govts only client..is its people..and IT PAYS ITS dividend equally to all..in coin..TRUE EQUality*

THE new coin will be assured..its weight in edible seeds from the tree of life[read revelation 22;2..sEE ALSO GEN 1;29..ITS OUR SHARED INHERITANCE.

BUT..it begins by restoring the inflation..done by fiat paper

LEST WE..FORGET..
the..smokers tax take is near 23 BILLION
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6196&page=0

TALK ABOUT TAXATION Without representation
its..REVENUE RAISING..CLEAR AND SIMPLE.