Coming home from the city, and listening to the ABC (trying to avoid those tedious ads.) on the car radio, they were discussing women who engaged in hitherto 'male only' activities. The two sports under debate, were boxing and the professional surfing circuit, with a lady guest, both of them quite prominent, representing each of the two sports.

I know absolutely nothing about the professional surfing circuit. And boxing, aka 'the sweet science', in my opinion I don't believe it's an activity in which women should participate. Please understand, I didn't say they can't ? I merely said the shouldn't or it's inappropriate, is all ? If we were to extrapolate their 'right' to undertake A N Y sport whatsoever - how about a female Matador, an activity, pastime, or sport closely followed by millions in Spain and Mexico ?

We have some female surf champions in the family. Women are very welcome in surf lifesaving. They have to save the day for the limp metrosexuals that feminist-led society is raising in droves.

Boxing and body contact.
I really don't care if Bogan women give one another a belting for payment. In the ring they have to obey the rules and they do get paid for what they are doing in their private time anyhow.

There can be extra insurance premiums and insurance considerations where women are concerned. To deal with the 'My sport affected my pregnancy' claims, for instance. Netball's female administrators have been challenged for their policy of avoiding pregnant women in competition.

Let the market rule and make people responsible for their own decisions. No sense in trying to assist people to come to a reasonable compromise in a country where political correctness rules, as in Australia.

The ABC would be looking for some 'sexism' to egg-beat on a slow news day, wouldn't they? No way they would be about news or contributing in a positive way.

What in the world is Australia doing about the redundant ABC and SBS? Can't someone relieve the weary taxpayer of one of them? Wasn't there a proposal from the SBS to take over the ABC? The SBS has a well-developed funding system too that relieves the taxpayer of some pain. Not so the ABC :(

o sung wu,
I don't think a real woman or a sensible man for that matter would ever be drawn to such activities.
Why don't all these "tough" people help fight terrorism instead of engaging in such mindless behaviour. Perhaps they're not THAT tough after all.

Hi o sung wu,

This is a first for me, I’ve never entered such debates and I’m not sure I’m equipped to comment but I will try.

I have a wife, two daughters and four granddaughters, even the cat is a female, so I’ve resorted to wearing a frock around the house to avoid persecution.

We have always accepted that as parents we have a joint relationship with each child. There is never space between us for anyone to exploit. We also accept that as individuals we each have (singular, person to person) relationship with each child however, on all issues that relate to us as parents, no decisions are ever made that do not involve discussion and agreement between us.

If any of our family females expressed a wish to do anything in their lives, like boxing, we would have no comment unless we were asked. It is none of our business. We might express concern in relation to health, safety or wellbeing. If there were any concerns we would express them but only if invited. Because of our attitude they normally do, which is very complimentary.

So for anyone else in the world to make decisions about what our female family members may or may not do with their lives is to us, a rude, arrogant, interfering and totally unwarranted intrusion into our/their business, we would both fight tooth and nail for their rights to do as they please within the law.

Not because the intruders are either right or wrong, we don’t seek to judge them, but because it is absolutely non of their freaking business.

What gives anyone the right to determine what other people do within the law? Who says this or that should be male only, or that something is inappropriate and just who is trying to determine what rights women have?

Some might say that females should not be drawn to such activities, it has nothing to do with them because such people are embracing the worst form of sexism.

Our society is riddled with those who know better then us

This is a hard question O Sung Wu.
While I would be the first to say that women should be allowed to do any activity they are legally able to do, I am loath to agree with women participating in boxing.
Surfing, yes, boxing no.

However, I am also against men participating in the 'sport' of boxing.
It is an archaic, violent sport, that everyone knows the participants will end up getting hurt.
To actually condone a sport where people belt each other in the head, with the specific aim of rendering them unconscious by a blow to the head, is in my mind, criminal.

Every day I'm convinced more and more why I'm glad I never went to university. I too could write 350 words on why I should stick my nose in other peoples business!

If two woman or two men want to get in a ring and bash each others brains out, what's it to anyone else?

If two woman or two men want to get in a ring and bash each others brains out, what's it to anyone else?
RawMustard,
I'm not that convinced that it is that simple. From more than enough evidence such people more often than not call upon taxpayer funded services such as healthcare & also more often than not taxpayer funded social services after they got hurt.
If we had a system where such activities were covered by insurances & not tax payer funded services then it wouldn't be so bad. The way it is now we all are forced against our will to support these bone heads.

Ah, Indy. I actually did have that bit in my last post but removed it for fear of derailing another of o sung wu's threads.

You're right of course, it's all about the money and that too is other people sticking their noses in other peoples business... er pockets.

First we create rules to force people to pay for others stupidity and then we need to create rules to stop the stupid from being stupid because it costs us. How about we get our noses out of other people business and pockets and kill two birds with one stone and let the stupid fend for themselves?

Thanks to all of you who've consented to add to the Topic. Most of you now realise I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw, as evidenced by my first question ?

Females engaged in boxing, surely they are anatomically unprepared for any blows or punches directed at to the breast area. Or in the stomach (reproductive) regions ? Because of the likelihood of occasioning severe and permanent injury, to those very delicate parts of the anatomy ? Often, when I was still working I saw many women of all ages, and levels of health, conveyed to hospital because of some strike or injury rendered to those very sensitive areas.

Then to watch these young women, going at it, 'hammer and tongs' in some 'caged' arrangement, I could only imagine the local Coroner would be kept pretty busy ?

Surfing, I'm not quite sure why they chose that sport to be included alongside that of boxing ? Though I have no idea how tough it is, I would've though it would be reasonably safe for a young and fit woman to safely participate in it ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

You ask, "Should there be any limitations
with women's sport?"

Women have long been, and to a great extent
still are, denied entry to many athletic
roles: sport has long been an almost
exclusively male preserve.

In recent years however, things have
changed significantly thanks to the efforts
of court decisions, and legislation.
Today, female athletes are now enjoying adequate
coaching and other facilities, instead of being
treated as athletic after-thoughts. Women are
becoming increasingly evident as joggers, soccer
players, race-car drivers, javelin throwers,
high-jumpers, golfers, tennis players, gymnasts,
basketball players, and long-distance runners,
and swimmers.

In fact, no matter what the sport,
there is no physical reason why women cannot
participate; they can avoid injury to
vulnerable parts of the body the same way men do,
through the use of protective clothing and rules of
fair play.

The reason why women do not take part in every sport
however, is a cultural one.

Men still control sport.
It is acceptable, for example, for
women to take part in sports involving the display of
grace and beauty, such as figure-skating, tennis,
swimming, or skiing, and in non-contact sports such as
basketball, netball, and track.

It is much less acceptable however, for women to take
part in any sport in which they have physical confrontation
with an opponent, in which they become too unkept,
exhausted, and sweaty. Football, ice-hockey, and of course -
boxing, remain among the male preserves, for it
is not so much talent as the individual's ascribed status
(male or female) that determines access to an achieved status
in sport.

cont'd ...

Men still want female athletes to appear "ladylike."
In the playing field as elsewhere in life.

there is no physical reason why women cannot
participate; they can avoid injury to
vulnerable parts of the body the same way men do,
through the use of protective clothing and rules of
fair play.
Foxy,
That's fine as long as they go & harrass their insurance company for payment of health care & not the public health system. There are plenty of reasonable citizens who have unfortunate accidents & who need to rely on the public health system. Those who choose to expose themselves to frivolous activities which can cause serious health issues should not be treated with public funding.

Suseonline, I have to agree with your comments in relation to boxing. It is a stretch to call it a 'sport'. It is nothing more than a bestial competition, with its roots in the pleasures of the aristocracy and the blood lust of the unintelligent masses.

Hi there FOXY...

I think you're on the money there, where it's not so much as they physically can't participate in these 'tougher' hitherto, male sports, it's more that it dislocates their feminine image and status within society. Personally, I don't find anything sexy with two girls pounding away at each other, in a type of cage. A cage which is normally the preserve of wild animals in captivity.

It's very true, with equality, it's no longer a case, they must not do something, rather they may pursue any lawful activity they wish. Put very succinctly by SPINDOC in his earlier thread.

And our very own SUSEONLINE, is absolutely against boxing, by either male or female, and she does express a very good point of view too, I think. There again SUSE generally does, in my opinion !

RAWMUSTARD, is convinced that, if two individuals, male or female have a mind to beat each other up, well why not ? It's not the responsibility of society to curb that type of behaviour, as long as it's within the law.

ONTHEBEACH is of the opinion, that boxing is fine as long as the Taxpayer is not saddled with the costs of fixing up the vanquished at the conclusion of the fight. Which is a very reasonable demand I believe, very reasonable indeed.

INDIVIDUAL has a very good point too I reckon. If all these so called tough people want to fight, why then don't we put them all in the ring and have 'em sort out these lousy terrorists who are continually injecting fear and suspicion, into the hearts and minds of our women and children, as well as our other decent citizens, in the community.

Thanks to everyone who've decided to contribute to this mindless little topic of ours. I really do appreciate it !

Women do compete in judo and taekwondo in the Olympics. What difference mixed martial arts in the octagonal (MMA)?

I strongly feel there should be no limitations in sport and have seen women in surf board riding for at least 30 years.
I care not about equality for women, long overdue.
But am confronted by the growing tendency for some women to seem to want to own their male partner and control him totally.

Every time you, or the do gooders want to restrict someone else in what they can chose to do, it goes a full circle & comes back to restrict you doing what you have always done.

I gave up motor racing partly because of new safety regulations. Seat belts became mandatory. In my day of space frame cars, it was my experience that in major crashes, those who stayed in the car, died in the car. Those who came out lived to race again. Surely it should have been my choice.

When I was about to sail out of Sydney heads, bound for the Solomon Islands, a two bit harbor board official tried to stop me going. I did not have my Danbuoy in place.

A danbuoy is a stick that floats upright, with a flag on top. It is thrown near/too anyone anyone overboard, to help see them. It has a lifebuoy attached on a longish line attached. They are a great thing on a crewed up yacht, except the line tends to be a problem when heavy seas wash it around.

As I was single handed, with no one to throw the thing at me, if I went overboard, it was stowed below deck, where it caused much less problems. I had to tell the peanut I would resist as piracy any attempt to board my British registered ship, if they accosted me. He left.

It is these mindless idiots, with some authority, that we empower when ever we make another unnecessary rule for anyone. Let the ladies, & everyone else, do what they wish, provided no innocent bystanders are endangered.

Martial arts could come in handy for some women,

http://tinyurl.com/nys3p6u

Tres 'Progressive'. LOL

Hi there HASBEEN...

In your first sentence you said '...Every time you, or the do gooders want to restrict someone else in what they can choose to do...'

Ah mate, I never said I wished to restrict anyone from doing whatever they wish to do - a case of, 'whatever floats your boat' !

I merely said when it comes to boxing, I don't think it's appropriate for women, not that they can't ! You're getting a little precious there ol' boy, eh ? In any event, it's only my singular opinion.

Hay o sung wu, that comment was not aimed at you old mate, but at some posters, or more at the article you were quoting.

I can't imagine you being dictatorial in such things.

For me, I would hate to see my daughters in a punch up or a boxing match. In fact I would not be too happy if my son was involved either. It is not my thing.

I was a member of Police Boys clubs in my youth, & indulged in basketball, & a bit of weight lifting, but not the combat sports.

I did do a fair bit of unarmed combat training in the navy, as I assume you did in the army, but fortunately never had to use any of it.

I also did quite a bit of gunnery training, aircraft, ship & small arms, but again never had to actually use any of it.

Ah HASBEEN...it's me that's being a bit precious ! Sorry ol' man !

Those exhilarating days of Kapooka, with you in Naval Aviation down the road at Uranquinty, and the RAAF at Forest Hills about 6 or 7 miles from Wagga. Interestingly, Wagga and it's environs played host to all of Oz's Military services, at one time, and still does with the Army and RAAF.

I would love to regain those times again, despite how hard they were on us at RTB ? Though, from what I heard the naval recruits had a tougher time than either the Army of RAAF. With the RAAF having it the easiest, from what I've heard ?

Time I stopped elapsing into my daily reverie and acted like an over seventy year old should act ? Tend to fire from the hip far too often I'm afraid ? Sorry again.

I am no fan of boxing, but if women want to do it, let them. The same with other 'male' sports. Perhaps the rules would be changed slightly to accommodate women.

Foxy,

"...they can avoid injury to vulnerable parts of the body the same way men do, through the use of protective clothing and rules of fair play....

One would hope. I remember years ago when cricketers wore protective clothing, but nothing for their heads. This spoke reams about what was considered their most valuable organ.

Concussion is considered a brain injury ... and research indicates that blows to the brain may result in dementia later down the track ...

Let's hope that female boxing isn't introduced into schools.

Foxy,

I had to grin ...

"... Men still want female athletes to appear "ladylike."

Basket ball and even croquet can bring out the most unladylike activity.

As long as women don't expect to have their pie and eat it too. So obvious in so many ways. But not all women, some have honour as do some men, and a more nuanced appreciation of the differences between the sexes and (they) routinely bless others with acts of politeness and kindness. Sure makes the world go round.

No, not when it comes to Jelly Wrestling!

Dear Danielle,

On average, men are stronger, faster, and heavier
than women, so there are some sports, like football,
in which most women will be unable to compete on
equal terms with most men. In other events that require
long-term physical endurance, trained women may prove
superior, for they are able to convert body fat to energy
for longer periods than most men. This is especially true
of long-distance swimming, which is becoming a predominantly
female sport (of fity miles or more).

I agree - boxing is not a sport that I would like to
see anyone take part in (male or female). However, we have to
recognise that social class strongly affects the individual's
access to, and preference for, particular sports - whether as
a participant or as a spectator.

Those with money for
example, can take part in such expensive sports as -
yachting and polo. They can afford sports the more
expensive sports -
like - tennis, golf, skiing, or skuba
diving.

The working class however, may be able to participate
only in such sports as bowling, pool, basketball, volleyball,
or boxing. And these class biases toward particular sports
tend to be passed on from one generation to the next.

A child whose parents belong to a country or private club,
is likely to develop an interest in golf, tennis, or yachting -
and to develop the necessary skills. A child who grows up
in an inner city slum is more likely to turn to basketball,
a game that needs little more in the way of facilities than
a strip of asphalt and a backboard and hoop.

Members of different social classes also tend to have different
tastes as spectators. Some people are more
likely to view college sports or such genteel games as
golf and tennis. Others will gravitate towards
games that offer more daring, strength, and even violence,
such as boxing and demolition derbies.

Of course I hesitate about making these generalisations
because there are always exceptions to each situation.

Hi there FOXY...

Once more you've come up trumps ! A very well presented summation on the differing contrast you've drawn between men and women engaging in sports. Your inclusion of the socio-economic disparities does create some serious thought too I believe. As there're some 'sports' that very few of us could ever hope to participate in, purely because of the amount of money required to even enter.

Motor racing (my deference to HASBEEN should be noted), equestrian pursuits (again, I defer to HASBEEN) and Olympic small bore shooting, to name but three. Enormous funds are necessary to actively pursue any of the above sports I've cited herein. A quality Walther .22 match rifle, would cost, north of $8K for the rifle alone, excluding all the other bits 'n pieces required.

In a TV show, a couple of years ago, a fit young (civilian) women was permitted to undertake the Army's SAS physical selection course, which cited as a purely exploratory trial, because there was much discussion centring on allowing women to undertake 'Front Line' duties. It was claimed women were physically inferior to men, thus completely unsuited to a front line combat role ? Well, would you believe it, with some minor modifications, she passed and passed quite well ?

I must admit FOXY, it put people like me right back in our respective boxes, believe me !

Foxy,

I believe that some women play football, but not against males.

If women did take on the traditional male sports, I don't imagine that they will compete with men.

Agree about the class/money divide which determines which sports are undertaken.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me, but didn't a woman smash a land-speed record (quite some time ago), but because she was female it wasn't recognised?

Foxy, o sung, equestrian doesn't have to be that expensive. My 20 acres is of no more value than a nice house in a reasonable suburb, & travel to the city or gold Coast is not too hard, so most could have a few horses if they wanted.

Around here people are given slow young racehorses, for dogs meat prices, & with careful selection, they can be gold medal winners.

In fact just a few Olympics back a young lady was part of our Olympic gold medal winning Eventing team on such a horse.

She was riding a horse the was given for pony club as a youngster, & took it all the way to Olympic gold. It takes a lot of ability, & some luck to do something like that, but it is still possible.

Hi again HASBEEN...

I do accept what you say about mitigating some of the overall costs. Nevertheless, to pursue your sport actively, you would have to acknowledge, necessary costs like a Horse Float, feed, stabling, on going Vet. costs, 'tack' and many other very necessary expenses. All of which will need to be outlaid, to ensure the proper care of your horse.

With your twenty acres too, many of those who live in the city, (the 'burbs'), some barely have a backyard let alone facilities suited for the ongoing care of a horse ? Mate, I'm not trying to deprecate anything you've said, it's just you being a very practical bloke, able to turn his hand at anything, most teens couldn't hammer a nail, let alone organise suitable stabling facilities for a horse ?

You're a man of the land, a very capable hand at most trades. Imagine if a young 18 years old kid from an inner Sydney suburb, in which he must remain. He sought both your help and your practical counsel, telling you he's always wanted to pursue a sport involving Olympic Horse events. He'd have it all in front of him, don't you think ? Instead, if he chose Rugby League/Union as an example - he'd need only togs, jock, boots, and a big heart ? I'm sure you see what I'm suggesting.

For sure o sung, I said it was possible, not easy. Becoming a high achiever at anything is never going to be easy. Most who take up rugby league or union, never go further than junior or local level, & of course have no desire to go further, when they take it up. Most of our sport is for relaxation rather than making a business of it.

To go far will always require some money. One of my daughters was a walk racer, competing at school, & little athletics level. She won a couple of championships but that was expensive.

Just taking her to these events in places like Townsville, & Adelaide actually cost a lot more than local show jumping & Eventing. It would have cost quite a lot more for interstate equestrian events of course, but that daughter was more interested in her studies, so kept it reasonably local only.

You have quite a remarkable family, eh HASBEEN ! I accept what you say, nothing worthwhile is ever easy - a parable to suit every occasion, for sure.

It's indeed a great shame that some of that homespun judiciousness of yours, is regrettably unavailable for a wider audience that is a far more deserving and impoverished cause ? One would never know ? Perhaps your sage advice might just keep some hapless youth out of gaol for awhile ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

Once again Thanks for your kind words.

Dear Danielle,

The following link may be of interest to you.
It fully supports the valid points you've raised:

http://www.stylist.co.uk/people/foul-play-why-is-there-sexism-in-sport#image-rotator-1

Lee Breedlove broke the land-speed record in 1965 and Jessie Combs smashed it in Oct. 2013.

Dear Hassie,

Of course there are exceptions to every rule.
Determination and talent can sometimes triumph.
That's what makes it all worthwhile.

Thank you, Foxy, the linked article said it all.

Perhaps women's football would be more about skill than about brute force and aggression.

I also wonder if the supporters of women's football would scream the same sort of abuse from the sides.

Traditional football and supporters - not a "pretty sight".

Dear Danielle,

I think that some women spectators (and participants)
can be just as aggressive
as male participants/spectators in any sport.
I still can recall being at one of my son's school games
on a Saturday - and expecting the game to be just a
"fun" game. There was a woman sitting next to me watching
the game who became very excited and became very aggressive
with screams of "Kill the red-head!" She continued yelling
out to her son (who was on the opposing team)
until I realised that
the only "red-head" in the team of my son's school was
my son! Well, I politely asked her which
kid was her son, and she pointed out this very overweight
child. I'm ashamed to admit that I then began yelling
to my son, "Get the fatty!" She stopped her yelling,
and moved away from me. It was my first experience of
a "friendly" school game. Needless to say, I learned to be
more controlled in future games after a long lecture from
my son. ;-)

<Perhaps women's football would be more about skill than about brute force and aggression>

Does it matter what women's football would be like? Or how the spectators might behave?

Surely the only relevant issue is that no-one ever prevented women from forming teams as men do and competing against one another.

If anyone can show me how 'men' ever 'prevented' girls and women from playing sports I would be most interested. My experience is that women - mothers and other 'protective' and often censorious women - limited girls, other women and themselves, not 'men'.

The targets of feminists were:

1. females joining in 'male' sports, activities and clubs alongside men; and

2. apparent higher payments by advertisers for some 'male' sports.

As far as (1) is concerned it is a case of feminists wanting to have their cake and eat it too. That is unreasonable, but feminists won that ground in the culture war.

There are girls in de-tuned (to suit mothers) Boy Scouts (now simply Scouts) and the boys are not so interested any more because the program has been neutered, affecting the adventure and risks they crave. In junior AFL for example, girls can play with boys, and bloody whiny they and their parents are, too. Now the fad has largely passed, but the devastation and higher insurance premiums remain.

In relation to (2), let the market rule and men cannot be held responsible for that. However feminists want laws to force advertisers who sell their marketing to private companies to artificially structure the market.

If the ABC was talking about women in sport (OP refers) it is as sure as God made little apples it was indulging in feminist politics. However like many other Australian taxpayers who pay for the ABC I would very much like it to return to the 'old' ABC that delivered news and other factual reporting and did not involve itself in politics.

As well, why must Aussie taxpayers be compelled to pay for the broadcasting infrastructure and paraphernalia for TWO national broadcasters that regularly lift BBC stuff anyhow

A funny little aside on my daughters walk racing.

At her last high school athletics carnival there was just one 1600 meters walk race for both sexes, for seniors only. I was listening to the briefing given to the field before the start.

Anyone jogging to prevent being overtakes would be disqualified.

Those who got tired & slowed had to move to the outside of the track, to allow inside passing.

Anyone who was lapped had to get off the track, Oh except for being lapped by Kate of course. She lapped everyone, including all the boys, as she was the only one trained. It became a standard saying in out house, "except for Kate of course".

We eventually withdrew our support for her walking, as she was getting too much shin, foot & pelvis pain with the heavy training at the athletics club. We read a number of reports that it was a sport really only suitable for mature bodies, not still growing young ladies

Dear Hassie,

Talking about "mature bodies."

I've had to give up going to the gym because of my
heart palpitations. I now walk regularly instead.
But I find that I can't jog as I used to do.
I guess there's certain disadvantages that come
with "maturity" as well. Still, I'm determined
to maintain some form of exercise. I also find
that my medication doesn't help my energy levels
either.

Good for you Foxy. Do a few kilometers for me too please sweetie.

I'm trying to get some quotes for knee replacements, but it appears the good surgeons don't like quoting. You're supposed to find out what it cost you after the event.

Foxy,

Have year heard of the '10,000 steps' program? I believe it is enjoyable and very good.

onthebeach,

I am intrigued. I haven't heard the term "as sure as God made little apples " since my grandmother said it, albeit she inserted 'green' ... "little green apples."

Dear Hassie,

Good Luck with the knee replacement.
I hope that it works out for you.
I know how painful it can be. A family
friend had the op recently - and is doing
very well. Anyway, here's wishing you every
success.

Dear Danielle,

Thanks for the name of the program.
I haven't heard of it - but I will investigate it
for sure. Anything to maintain a level of fitness.

BTW: "Little Green Apples," reminds me of a song
I grew up with written by Burt Bacharach and Carole
Bayer Sager, sung by Roger Miller (and my older brother):

"And I wake up in the mornin'
With my hair down in my eyes and she says hi
And I stumble to the breakfast
While the kids are goin ' off to school, goodbye
And she reaches out and takes my hand
And squeezes it and says, how you feelin' hon
And I look across at smilin' lips that warm my heart
And see my mornin' sun

And if that's not lovin' me
Then all I've got to say
God didn't make little green-apples
And it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime
And there's no such thing as Doctor Suess
And Disneyland and Mother Gose is no nursery rhyme..."

Dear Foxy,

That is an eye-opener.

I wonder how widespread the phrase was. I thought it was Australian. However, my grandmother did spend time in Canada ...?

Dear Danielle,

As sure as "God made Apples," has been cited in print
since at least 1828. It's a popular idiom - that probably
originates with the Bible (Adam and Eve et cetera). It
translates to mean being - dead cert about something.

Dear Foxy,

Thank you. You are a wonderful source for information ...

Dear onthebeach,

Pole Dancing is now considered a sport and having international championships.

Do you think it will catch on with men? If it does, do you think feminists will resist it?

When my son was in primary school he played football. Having begged me to teach him how to knit, he took his little piece of knitting along to practice. Neither his football skills nor knitting skills, unfortunately, have improved.

Good evening to you DANIELLE...

Thank you very much indeed for your several contributions to this Topic, I really appreciate it.

As I was reading your last thread, I saw your son wished to learn to knit, that's great I'm sure ? Reading on I was astonished to see that he also wished to take his knitting to footy practice ?

When I was playing League about 100 years ago, if I was to take knitting to Pratten Park, in Ashfield, for our thrice weekly football practice...well I'm not entirely sure what sort of reception I'd receive DANIELLE ? Today, in our more sophisticated, and with a more distinctive, liberal predilection, within our multi-cultural society, I couldn't envisage any complications associated with 'individual' players, or if it were a game, spectators. Even so...?

Again, many thanks DANIELLE, I do appreciate the time you've put into your thoughts.

Danielle,

I am not sure what point you are trying to make about your son's knitting, footy and pole dancing.

I see pole dancing as a difficult mix of contortionism and gymnastics. Contortionism is interesting as another interest of women, but not as popular or not popular at all with men. Perhaps women's bodies lend themselves to pursuits of that kind. Why some feminists laud it (pole dancing) as 'empowering' and thirty-somethings find it 'sexy' to perform in the company of other women in women's gyms, I have no idea. Some women do like to flaunt it though and many women are competitive with other women. Fashion proves that.

But who cares? It is all down to choice isn't it? No-one is making anyone do anything, or preventing anyone from doing anything (legal, one hopes). It is choice and enjoying life and maybe wearing the consequences. It is wearing thin constantly blaming men for women's choices (and consequences) though.

The only objection I have is where some are happy to exercise choice, but want others to shoulder the responsibility for them. As the saying goes, 'You can't have your cake and eat it too'. Or the Germans might say, 'You can't dance at two weddings'.

onthebeach,

I completely agree. It is all about choice (as long as it is legal) and taking responsibility for one's action.

I would think that all thinking people agree with you.

I am firmly of the opinion that women should be banned from the shooting sports, they keep beating me.

Is Mise,

Ssshhh, keep it quiet but there have always been a large number of women members of shooting clubs. Many men and women competing in the in the Paralympics as well.

http://www.paralympic.org.au/ten-paralympics-and-counting-libby-kosmala

Forty years, what a record.

Here is to the quiet achievers who get out and do things.

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

I gather you're a proponent of the shooting sports eh ? Have you ever had the opportunity to handle one of those Olympic Match 'Free Pistols', by chance ? They have enough rods and weights, and other mysterious appendages hanging off the jolly thing, one would need close directions just to load it ?

Seriously, I do understand that this 'free pistol' event is so minutely precise in accuracy, even their eyeglasses are specially constructed to the 'enth' degree. I really wouldn't know, but I can only imagine how much all this kit must be, to enable these exceptional sportsmen and women to seriously compete in the Olympics.

Hi there, o sung wu.

I would prefer to let these lovely people do the talking through their accomplishments,

http://www.qldrifle.com/index.php/queens/queens-2013

F Class
http://www.qldrifle.com/index.php/rss-news-test/214-looking-to-f-class-world-championship-in-usa

As a reminder, these are the citizens that Belly and others wilfully conflate with criminals. They are the law-abiding licensed people affected by the bureaucratic paper-chase of the Howard-inspired gun control, their names and personal particulars are on police computers as 'persons of interest' -also pop up as warnings when regos and home addresses are scanned by mobile police in cars- and are subjected to random police inspections in their homes by uniformed police in fully marked police cars.

However at the same time, Belly and other gun control 'experts' would never accept similar treatment of the real, known offenders, such as OMG bikies with records and drug traffickers. Oh no, criminals have rights. It is the ordinary citizen and victims who do not have rights. The Left have warped the rights of ordinary citizens. That is the Left 'Progressives' for you: State control and bans for ordinary citizens and a free go with guvvy support for the bent and lazy, who don't obey laws anyhow.

'afternoon to you ONTHEBEACH...

That's extraordinary, these young 'slip's' of girls handling (and handling very well) these big bore 7.62 rifles, nearly as long as they are, truly amazing ! And to enter the illustrious Queens Prize is quite an achievement, considering the distances they have to shoot over. My day, it was 300yards to 900yards with the .303 SMLE, in either No1 Mk3 or the No. 4 both SMLE's though.

Now they compete from 300 metres out to 1000metres ! They would sit most blokes right on their collective a... !

Thank you very much for the link ONTHEBEACH, I really appreciate it.

Cheers...Sung Wu.

o sung wu,

The shooting clubs and ranges welcome visitors. Any who want to have a go just ring the club or range for particulars and you will get free supervision and instruction. No licence or firearm required. Only pay the cheap standard fee for the range and for the 'crackers' used.

There has been a pleasing trend for groups of men, women or mixed (it doesn't make a difference, but some visitors like the option) to have a cheap couple of hours learning how to shoot, including shotguns for clay pigeons. Instructors will even provide regular coaching for free to anyone who wants to go more often.

It is usual for 'non shooter' or 'novices' groups to celebrate significant occasions with an afternoon at the range, then go out for dinner after to finish the day. A much better option for Hens and Bucks parties than getting smashed at some flea pit bar somewhere. You actually get together for a laugh and a good chat. Absolutely no alcohol or drugs allowed.

If you checked the side bar of the links I gave earlier you should see that facility advertised.

The sport is cheap and a good option for those who want to challenge themselves and get out of the house to be among people for company. A .22 for example, is very easily manageable by people with weakness of limbs or wanting very cheap sport, or practice. Very cheap to buy secondhand and cheap to use. The high quality CZ brand for example is very low cost secondhand and will challenge the highest priced make on the range.

OTB,

I've been a Shooter's Assistant (I dis-remember the correct term) for Paraplegic shooters and one can only marvel at their dedication and determination and shear guts.

I have seen some that had to pause for a fair time between shots because lifting the rifle was a strength draining challenge, those so afflicted were superb snap shots.

Back in the late 1950's there was a doctor who shot .22 pistol at Sydney Pistol Club and he suffered from almost continuous shakes and walked with the aid of crutches.
Back then there were no concessions in competition, nor did he want any, and two of us used to stand beside him to snatch away his crutches when he said that he was ready to fire.

He used a Colt .22 Match Target pistol and its slab sides shimmered in the light except for the instant of supreme concentration when he fired.

Makes one thankful for good health and a bit humble.

Good evening to you ONTHEBEACH & IS MISE...

ONTHEBEACH - Thank you very much indeed for all your excellent information on shooting as a sport. And as an active social event as well.

Back in the mid fifties to the mid sixties, I was a member of Hurstville VDC Rifle Club, situated at the old ANZAC Rifle Range, at Liverpool. I understand the whole area is now consigned to houses ? Thereafter, I was a member of the regular Army Rifle team for the entire period of my enlistment. As I mentioned in a previous post, we used SMLE's No1 Mk1ll or a No4. all in .303cal. Each were to be fitted with a heavy barrel (properly bedded) and aperture sights. (Central, Rawson, or Parker Hale) The actual rifle,(new) was purchased from the ARA at a cost of three pounds exactly !

In the Army Rifle team, we were all issued with the standard Infantry weapon, the FN L1A1 in 7.62. A fantastic Rifle in my opinion.

Yes ONTHEBEACH, I agree with you unreservedly. Sporting Shooting can be an outstanding activity, and can be all embracing as well, with an active social component that may include the entire family.

Hi IS MISE...

That must be a very rewarding activity for you, assisting those with severe physically handicaps to participate in Match Pistol Shooting. I've been told that particular discipline is exceptionally tough even for someone who's able-bodied ? I did a couple of combat programmes when I was with the coppers, but with shift work and a family, it made it hard to continue with the sport. I must say, the police pistol club was well attended and actively pursued by those who wished to undertake pistol shooting. Thank you for your contributions.

Is Mise,

A big thank you from another Aussie for that voluntary work.

O Sung Wu,

We all lose interests when we raise families and so often we don't find replacement interests. - The cares of daily living take over.

Many men or women are not ready for the park bench at 80. You could always go to the range as part of one of those groups if you haven't bothered to keep your licence. A bit of fun for an hour or two and see what the future brings. As a tip, the Trap shooters are a very welcoming lot wherever you go. If the budget is tight, a .22 is the way and social.

Thank you ONTHEBEACH...

I'm very much afraid all that sort of thing is well beyond me now, though I still cherish all the good memories of trying for a 'Possible' (at any range) still ! During the last few years in the job I virtually had to be ordered to re-qualify with my service gun, such was the lack of interest with handguns. Though still licenced for a rifle I've not got one, as I'd have no use for it now, so I shall allow it to lapse and not renew it when the time comes. A sure sign of a rapidly advancing dotage I'm afraid.

Thanks again ONTHEBEACH, I very much appreciate your interest.

o sung wu,

Ok, so you will have to concentrate on wine, women and song. Worthy pursuits.

Don't you listen to him o sung, the first two are OK, but that song stuff can be bad for your health.

G'day there HASBEEN & ONTHEBEACH...

You are of course perfectly correct HASBEEN ! If I were to 'Sing', thus take ONTHEBEACH's advice - ('Wine Women and Song'), I believe it would indeed, prove to be very deleterious to everyone's health, if I were to be heard ! And nobody would want that, I'm sure ?

Cheers to you both !

Sung Wu.