The Internet gives us the tool we need to replace pyramidal structures and leaders with flat structure, AKA anarchism or peoples' democracy, the old dream that goes right back to Ancient Greece. Anarchism has been given a bad name by ... well, by leaders. Because leaders are parasitic to the body politic, which is the people, they're insecure, relying on guile,deceit and propaganda to frighten us our own own power. The recent election of anew government will not change the world. Already the Net is moving us away from hierarchies.

Nothing moves us away from hierarchies.

Everything is encompassed in an hierarchical model.

it sounds like a thesis..but seems*..wrong..in so many ways

so lets go line by line

<..The Internet.gives us the tool..>>

but gives..them a much bigger tool of surveiled abuse
like i just lost yet again..a website..i spent years building

gone with one push..of a button
years of research..stolen..not only from me..but from any wanting to reading it..ever again..gone..in less than.one second..gone

http://www.celestinevision.com/celestine/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15136#15136

clem gorman,<<..we need to>>..but never will*

<<>...replace pyramidal structures..and..[BAD?}..leaders>>

then..your delusion..of..<..with flat structure,
AKA anarchism or peoples' democracy,..the old dream..that goes right back to Ancient Greece...>>

who are they..?
once..*their proof..is gone..

what else..have you got/

<<..Anarchism has been given..a bad name by ... well, by leaders. Because leaders are parasitic to the body politic, which is the people, they're insecure, relying on guile,deceit and propaganda to frighten us our own own power.>>

well..it seems i was wrong
we agree..the problem..what the remedy?

<<..The recent election..of a..new government
will..not change the world.>>

agreed..yet again..WHAT HAS THE WEB DONE?
but steal..our intellectual..,life experienced knowledge..so it can be edited away..bit by bit..deleted by the omnipotent/omnipresent/ ignorant..

or just access denied..
or rewrote..edited/deleted..at their will..by their reason..in their time*

the..what of changed format..
changed/hidden/secret links?..live time virus insertion..even ability to switch..on at will..a computer supposed to be off..[no where to hide]

<<>. .Already the Net..is moving us ..lol..away..from hierarchies.>>

your kidding arnt you
thats a joke..right?..

do you hold yea..or nay..
over your words..or they*..?
switch on..remotly..the vid cam..turn up the microphone

the masters..the service providers..etc etc
they control..our every act..

most just havnt..noticed..it clearly..yet*

we need leaders..we need bad leaders..
so we can leave them..to run..their own hell..here..then..in the proper hell..just as well..[in-justice hell]

[its..just as well..they get tempted here..first
sort the fools from..the prey..all we have left..is the power..of pay..or pray

do not force us to pray..that..they the 144,000..go away
they had their day..now send them..away?..what ya say?

yep rebellion just keeps increasing. many are foolish enough to think we are gods.

Runner, the only foolish ones are those who believe there ARE gods.

'People's democracy' will not work without the people electing a group of people who are 'in charge'.
If no one is at the top of the hierarchy, then anarchy will reign, and communism will thrive in it's purest form.

I prefer that our democracy continues as is, but with the possible change to a Republic and do away with Governor Generals.
And keep religion away from politics...

'Runner, the only foolish ones are those who believe there ARE gods." '
agreed Susie but not as foolish as those who deny their Creator God or the God of Israel (one and the same). One needs to walk around with eyes shut and deny true science to be a god denier.

I am none too sure what would be the best form of Government for Oz but one thing is for sure the current system does not produce leaders of much ability.
Our system appears to spawn leaders who are all about politics and ego and very little talent when it comes to management and leadership.
I guess it comes back to us, the people, we put them there, maybe we should be just a bit more selective.
SD

Clem
Well it's an interesting thought experiment, anyway.

The internet would not do away with the need for the executive or judicial arms of government, only the legislature which, as it claims its authority from the people, must concede to the *actual* will of the people.

So what might it look like? Each elector would have, or access an electronic device that allows them to make a single, secure, secret vote on each proposed law or proposed amendment. This kind of thing is already common for banking, taxes, insurance, etc.

The E-Parliament would comprise all the people voting as one electorate. Any person could propose or amend any proposed law. A law could be one sentence, or long and sectioned as with modern Acts of Parliament. In form it would look like a newsgroups site. It could be set up so that proposals with the most votes rise to the top.

As soon as a proposed law gets 50% of the vote, it becomes law, simple as that.

How is the law to be implemented? The same way as laws today are carried out. The government departments continue. The voters elect the PM or Premier and Cabinet and Ministers, just as they do today. However the Ministry and Cabinet continue only in their capacity as executive officers; losing all legislative capacity. The Governor or similar is retained in case the system gets into gridlock for any reason, with residual power to return the issue to the people for their decision.

The advantage is that there would be a hell of a lot less law-making going on, for the simple reason that most people do not in fact agree with most laws that are made. The thought experiment proves that it's simply a lie that modern Parliaments "represent" the people.

The disadvantage is that it would permit the plunder of everyone by everyone, but no more than the status quo! Another disadvantage is that it would probably conserve the status quo at the time of its inception, because of the difficulty of getting 50% of the vote.

The best form of Government would be a benevolent Dictator. However, since we're stuck with pseudo democracy we need to focus on rebuilding discipline & above all, fairness.. The first step is a non-military national service & the second step is to introduce a flat tax. After all, we must have a degree of fairness up front. Then we need to overhaul education by getting away from education for education's sake & start teaching again. Education can be introduced by having only teachers who have completed national service.

Shaggy Dog,
It's been that way decades, the social mobility achieved in the 20th century merely elevates the brighter children of the working classes to the bourgeoisie or on occasion into a pseudo ruling caste which floats adrift from it's roots.
Bill Shorten Sr was a Scottish immigrant who worked as a Painter and Docker, scraping barnacles off the hulls of ships for a living, his son is now part of the Australian political elite, his kids will be the colonial equivalent of "Blue Bloods".

That's just the ultimate in lazy thinking, individual.

>>The best form of Government would be a benevolent Dictator<<

Benevolent?

To whom?

To whom?
Pericles,
I'd be need based instead of the present want based system. I have long stated that in order to re-establish some resemblance of community life we must be on a level playing field for a start. The money marketeers have successfully (for them) manipulated economies & industry with this artificial complexity they call stock market. The playing field is now so uneven that only warfare on a global scale can curb this cancer. Everyone is guilty of increasing the number of sweat shops by looking for the best bargain but when the exploited start looking for a bargain in return words like tariff acts are being legislated. Irrelevant bureaucrats on huge money are getting awarded for sending whole companies & countries down the economic shute. It's all coming to haunt us gradually as the sweat shop economies are gradually clambering their way up on the economic ladder into huge middle classes.
Just wait till their weirdoes come to play with our children like our weirdoes have done for so long to theirs. It'll be one constant wailing by our do-gooders to "do something".

Jay of Melbourne,
What you say is possibly true but from my own experience such things tend to cycle.
The motives of those wishing to enter the political arena are various without a doubt but I think just of late we have been seeing a bit of a stereotype emerging that does not appear to be of benefit to Australia and also garner little respect from the population in general.
We should in my opinion have the best people as our political leaders but sadly the current crop from both camps are far from the best.
SD

Individual,
Their weirdos are already here and already offending, the do gooders are just more afraid of being called "Racists" than they are of being called "Rape Apologists".
I get what you're saying, replace rights with duties, equality with hierarchy and materialism with aspiration toward the sacred...good luck with that, William Pierce was probably the last White man to try it and at present his estate is being liquidated to line the pockets of the very same odious untermenschen he vilified in his speeches.

.good luck with that,
Jay of Melbourne,
Well, yeah it is rather idealistic isn't it but I can't help believe that a National Service will curb some of the me, me, me mentality. I also believe that the working class has reached saturation point from being exploited by bureaucracy. Also, political correctness has run its flu term & people are getting jack of it. There are interesting times ahead. Law & Order are failing us so badly that vigilanteism will become a part of everyday life. Just wait till some more Superannuation funds are failing us & people get desperate. All of the above are of course solely due to incompetent/corrupt bureaucrats in the public service courtesy of Labor's Peter Principle.
In Abbott we have a competent thinker again at the helm but the ALP sided public service is already working against his administration, making progress difficult. If only they could learn

line the pockets of the very same odious untermenschen he vilified in his speeches.
Jay of Melbourne,
That about says it all. I would not call them menschen, too insulting to the rest of us.

i always..thought..it best
if those who seek to lead..us..under go the test

it begins..with them..knowing..then showing their knowing
[i..figure you apply..to a specific office..by entering a chosen field

say..treasury..or employment..or environment
you along with other aspiring to that office..and collectively..study access etc..the specific options[you..among you..then test each-other..openly/publicly..live time online..[publish or perish]

we the sub-people[unter-menchen..then vote for specific persons among you..read your thesis..and chose..{VOTE*}..who gets the budget..that pays for your department..to serve to specific best uses ..to us..of your..[you unber-menchen]..service to..us your true betters

jesus said,..who will LEAD YOU..will be there to..serve you
we all seem to agree we are now poorly served

but we got the leaders we deserved

governance..was installed..to protect..special intrests
thus we gave govt powwer..over ARTIFICIAL/pertsons[paper fictions..that empower..only within..the realm..of paper

thus govt created..'license'..[license is permission..to..*do..[that..otherwise..not able to be done..[ie is incapable..*for a paper fiction..to do]..we need a licence..only when exceeding the bounds..of paper

but by lie..of us thinking..we ARE..a paper fiction
[birth certificate/marriage contract..licence..[achieved..by the mark..of the beast]..our sig-nature..as us..whenits just a statuted paper contract

obtained sans [without]..a meeting of minds
[contract can only exsist between equals..ie between paper fiction..[legal personhood's..ie statuted/constituted/paper legal fiction][uber-menchen]

or living..with living..[unter-menche]
ie living-person to living-person..[man to man]

and never the twain..shall meet
except via deciete*..or when we need permission..
to'do',,..business with/in..the uber..we gave..life to...via our mark

the lie began
*sign here please..or vote your mark here p-lease

but..there is
no meeting of equals
no informed consent..now there is clear proof of treason..
by some of the living..using the lie..of contracted consent..to steal..us blind

en-force policing..of policy..in-lue of ending true crime
there are two forms..of laws..criminal-injury..and civil-contract
and there exists..no valid civil contract..that allows the serious criminals..yet further opportunity..of ongoing injuring us..to our graves

based on the lie..via the mark-of the beast

sign here=an offer..
to enter satan realm..of paper fictions

no thank you..offer refused

Individual,
Well I was pointing out the ironic fate of the National Alliance, the irony is that Pierce was far more critical of people like Erich Gliebe than he was of Jews, Blacks, Communists etc. Your ideas are fine but the probability is that you'd be undone by one of your own before any of your enemies could get to you, look at Golden Dawn.
The man at the centre of their downfall,George Roupakias had been a hardcore Communist all his adult life then apparently he saw a better path in Golden Dawn, unfortunately he ended up killing a rival football fan in a bar fight and now the excrement has hit the fan and the Greek establishment has taken the opportunity to crush the party.
My point is that even if you could "convert" people from Liberalism to Illiberalism you could never fully trust any of them, there's a reason people like Felix Dzerhinsky and Heinrich Muller appear during revolutions.

people_assume..the breakthrough..is a..result/of..their thought process..the-consciousness..is not/fully..centered..in/the Atman..(Self).
http://auromere.wordpress.com/2013/02/15/the-exchange-of-vital-forces-during-social-interactions/

Thus,..the/vital-forces..which..are being..continuously exchanged/between./.human-beings..during..all..social-interactions.

Human_beings..function./.as..visible..conduits for/the..interchange of..the baser emotions..hurt/fear/anger,.sex-drive..and even.depression,..

..when..our inner-being..opens up..we discover..the/rich..and voluminous nature..through..the higher vital..(pranamaya/kosha)..and 7..mental sheaths.(manomaya/kosha)..with-in..lies..the human consciousness.

http://auromere.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/all-thoughts-come-from-outside/
<<..All..thoughts vibrate..eternally..in/the cosmos-mind...

<<..Thoughts..are universally..and not..individually/rooted..inthe/material brain..;..a truth..cannot be created,..but..only perceived...The erroneous/thoughts..of man..result from..imperfections..in/his..discernment.[bias]

In/a..certain sense..we are nothing..but/a..complex mass..of mental, nervous..and..physical habits..held together..by a few..ruling-ideas, desires..and associations–creating..an amalga.. of many..small self-repeating/forces..reverberating..with a..few major-sympathetic vibrations.

at..certain times..and for..certain_purposes..to separate..the two parts/of..the mind,..the active part,..[conscious]..which..is a factory/of..thoughts..and/

the quiet..masterful part[awarness]..which is at..once a Witness..and a Will,..observing..judging/rejecting,/eliminating,/accepting,/ordering..revelations..into miracles/corrections..and..changes,..

http://auromere.wordpress.com/2010/06/15/brain-not-mind-yoga-psycho/
The/brain..is not/the seat..of thinking.
It is..the mind..that thinks,..the brain/only..reacts..*to it.

There is/a..parallelism..between/the resonating-movements..of the brain/neurons..with those..of the/higher/mind...

*..But..the-brain..is only/a,,communicating-channel;
it is..only a supporting/means..for the..higher..simuli-activity.

when..the mind..is passive/it..receives..sympathetic..to mind/impression/e,motion..and other denotive-things..and passes/them on-to..the brain.

the mind..is not/an instrument[means]..of knowledge..but..[the way]..only..as..an organizer/of..imputed-knowledge,..and that knowledge..comes from..external/elsewhere.*..

[thinklike..the cloud..holding innfo
you acces,..by synching..up..with same/vibe]

When the/mind..is..silent,..words come,..speech comes,..action comes, everything comes,..automatically,..with striking/exactness..and speed..immediately..live time..all/the time.

In-this..silent/transparency,..we..will/soon..make another..discovery,..that not..only do other/thoughts come to us..from the outside,..but our..own thoughts/feelings reverberate.., too,..from outside.[cloud/mind]

What..we had/felt at..the periphery..of our being..
was a sympathetic-thought..in its.pure form,..or rather..a marrage..of synpthetic-mental vibration..it enters us..and comes to the surface..of our being..clad in..a personal-form,..sympathetic..with..our-present..emotive mind..enabling us to claim:..“This is/my thought.”

It is just..that the process..is not perceptible..to the ordinary man,..firstly,..because he lives..in constant tumult,of simultude/sameness.. and secondly..because the..*process through which vibrations..are appropriated[synchronized]..is almost instantaneous..and automatic-reactive..[reductive-proces..of causes attributations]...

Through..his education..and environment,..a person/becomes..accustomed to.selecting..from the..[cloud]..Universal Mind..a given,..narrow range..of ego specific sympathetic-vibrations with..which he has..a particular affinity.

For the..rest of his life..his mind/will pic- up..the same wavelength,..repeating the/same vibratory mode..in more..or less high-sounding words-formations..and with more..or less innovative turns..of phrase;..traits..mannerisms and experiences..unique in synchrony..with the being..we are being.

[aberative..notes..The best thing..to/do is..to occupy yourself with something practical which will compel..you to concentrate specially:..and specifically..on specific-studies,...attentive occupation[work]..or some other..physical occupation..

for..the body which demands-attention..as well..as obsessive clear/focus.. anything at all..that forces you..to fixate/the minds missioning

concentrate on what..you are doing..RIGHT..now..in the live-time..living moment..and..no longer..be a prey..fearless/love..is the key*
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=haunted+organ+transplant