This election/auction has shown what a complete farce our democracy has turned into.
It has evolved into an American presidential style election where personalities (if they can be called that) and money have replaced governance.
As the two leaders crisscross the country with their entourage of press and aids, making appearances at factories, shopping malls and anywhere that they can be filmed kissing babies the question is how much has all this cost? It must add up to millions when added up and someone is paying for it all.
A guess would be that the taxpayer is putting in a big share and of course big business is throwing money at the leader most likely to win and repay the favour later.
All the promises of big amounts to each place that could be swayed into a change of vote are going to be reneged on and why is it only possible into hand out this money at election time?
A better way to conduct this circus would be for each leader to have say ten minutes on TV each day for two weeks preceding the election to state their policies.
No flying around the country to bolster up marginal seats, what do we have TV and video conferencing for?
The ultimate step would be for ALL donations to be banned.
The savings could then be better spent on bolstering up the health service, education and other essential services such as fire fighters, ambulance and police.
The homeless would also stand a chance of a fairgo.
I am sure that everyone in Australia is now so fed up with all the nonsense being spouted and printed that they will all be just so relieved to get it over with, they will vote for that drovers dog.

Abbott is playing sneaky.
Quote
"Tony Abbott promises to release full list of Coalition spending cuts by Thursday"

That will therefore give virtually no time to check them and most important it will be during the electronic media black-out period, when parties are banned from buying space on TV and radio for political advertising, so he won't be bought to task for anything controversial.

To me that indicates he has something BIG he is trying to hide, but alas Rudd has stuffed up SO BAD I will be glad he is going.

Philip S,
I haven't seen any costings from Rudd or indeed how much he is handing over to the next Government ? How can Labor promise bilions then say there's not sufficient funding for the a Coalition Government to spend ? Which is it ?

If Rudd and Abbot are the best leaders this country can throw up we really do have a problem for the future.
If Liberal and labor are the best management we can find God help us.
Politicians in general have never been my cup of tea but the current crop really are a joke.
SD

its not looking..like a pro rudd thread
i think you are forgetting..we get the leaders we deserve

ok..lets presume this thread is really re election 2013
rudd..drew well ahead at the party launch..
but pushed it too far..at the end

[he should clearly have shut up..when the applause..went loud
..at his..*near closing words..the paty never quits..line

but then..he personalized it..with his ego..killing the mood

he got it wrong..
he should have said..i wont quit..neither will [you] the party

applause..shut up

invite keating and bob..TOGETHER..on a shared stage
suck-up...the applause..strengthen the PARTY vibe..etc..
instead he lead ballooned it..[and thus ..what could have been]

instead of inflating
he deflated..it at the end..
and it became krudds..lathen moment

ahhh men

now..it only needs tony..to do the same
and he will..cause we deseve the leaders we got
[in fact..their both too good..for the likes of us]

Precisely, Philip S.

Abbott is so "upfront". he's going to release his costings at the eleventh hour - after the electronic blackout.

And no-one on the Coalition side around here thinks that's dodgy?

Here's some analysis of their "boat buy back" scheme...It's rated "pants on fire".

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/indonesia-boat-buy-scheme-ridiculous-20130901-2sz09.html

(Nasty old Labor leaves Australia the economic envy of the world - and we get Abbott and Murdoch spruiking their largesse to rich mummys and a hare-brained scheme to buy back Indonesian fishing boats from a country with one of the longest coastlines in the world)

Has the world gone mad?

on the issue of donations
ALL*..SHOULD BE LOGGED ONLINE..live time
no matter how small..[and the biggest float to the top]

they will be classified
as a lobby/bribe for future favor..[which they of course are]
thus the donations must be listing the persons 'special interests..[yeah it wont happen]

ps
individual..alp claim to have presented their costings before even calling election..[hence that 10billion hole/smokers taxes..[remember?]

anyhow cuts cuts cuts
lol from the big head..didnt swing it'

kevins final nail will be his ego..
lets see on Wednesday..abc cooking show

tony..on thursday?

hit the which cuts..big time..by naming the cuts
onlast day advertising blitz..[dont even mention tony..
just WHICH..*SPECIFIC cuts..we KNOW*..are coming..

fully*..*dis-closed
factual nett amounts saved..plus extra costs needed for the promises

forget his lack of costings..measure the cost

i know how you feel poirot
but both sides are run/by..the same public servants/business

its same same..[ie alp]
could easy expose..some of your earlier links..
but both sides do the same..ok..not always for the same set of masters.[but the same..uber beings/associations/lobbies/elites]

[like that..howard sold off to..clear the debt..
plus..his super scheme..that reaped the cream..

we KNOW..lib will*..sell nbn..
[4 pennies-on the dollar]..to murdoch..or fox..or telstra/controlled by fox..

we know tony has secrets..but he has a slightly smaller ego
thus all*..quickly back him up..when he yet again stuffs up

yet he too at his lib lunch launch..looked smug..
bottom lip thrust out..hunched shoulders..small target..its a classic

all that changes is libs..give to middle/upper
alp..gives into lower/upper..somehow both serve the upper

Poirot, you criticise the Libs for releasing the details late in the week.
Was it equally as naughty for Labour when in opposition to release its
details at 5pm on the Friday before the election day ?

All you need is a cockie on your shoulder.

Did they really?

Well that's just as naughty.....

I take it that you can provide some substance to that assertion.

Are we talking about costings?

Details please, Bazz (as in evidence)

Well first I remember all the arguing about it myself and it has been
a talking point quite often recently.
Seeing you are so switched on to all what is happening I am surprised
that you are surprised.

It was about policies and costings.

Bazz,

Evidence please.

Article?

Anything?

Hi Greg,

Great to read your email !

It is already done...read on.

It only takes 10-15 minutes every 3 years ,to use the preferential system and number on the Senate ballot paper the 110 candidates below the line .
Not a big ask compared to having half one's face or testicles blown-off in Afghanistan.

By doing this , you can send the only message to the major parties, that they respect .

Every major problem we face from housing, university funding, child neglect, jails, environment, manufacturing collapse, casualization of the workforce, selling public assets, massive public/private borrowings, traffic chaos, growing poverty, social security blow-outs.....(.very happy to dialogue the back stories on all this)...is made catastrophically worse by one design blunder..................POPULATION GROWTH .

By preferencing the Stable Population Party first, then your major party second ( after that, just do the numbering because it won't matter ), we have a chance to turn the place around.

The positive message is that we have designed the mess in, so we can design it out .

Very best Greg ,

Ralph

I found a number of references by googling it and an ABC record of
Joe Hockey in the lastweek. Some of the links wed nowhere probably
because the originals had been deleted.
You could try tracking them back but as I remeber it all myself I don't
really want to put the effort into it.

"Was it equally as naughty for Labour when in opposition to release its
details at 5pm on the Friday before the election day ?"

"You could try tracking them back but as I remeber it all myself I don't
really want to put the effort into it."

Just as I suspected......

P,

This should resolve how Labor ensured in 2007 that its costings were never done before the election.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/late-policies-a-ploy-to-avoid-costing-costello/2007/11/22/1195321951582.html

Thank you, SM,

"By submitting 104 policies with three working days or less to the election, Labor knew they could either not be costed or, if they were, it would be too late for any critical analysis," Mr Costello said."

Bazz said:

Was it equally as naughty for Labour when in opposition to release its
details at 5pm on the Friday before the election day ?"

Just wanted to get it straight.

i like to think..shadow
is turnbull..

if not he must be damm..near the best
plugged into the lib spin machinations
[right at the top]..yet with feet of clay*

human yet humane
and then..a great mate poirot..pure ohhhh
simply amasing

the election..
will yet be a class-sic..sic*

ihope EVERYONE..fills in their own preferences..

honesty..follow your heart
list your preferred choices..of those minors you love most /first*
or hate LEAST*

making sure
to put number one..[of the least loved choice].. last*

the first will be choice
the last..not*..

DEFIANTLY..definably...not

=*[last]

ahhh men EH?
many mene mainly,,but not a nanny

Can we improve our democratic system at the election?

No - unfortunately not.

In a democratic system ideally the politicians are representatives of citizens who voted for them. They should make sure that decision-making in parliament is done in the best interest of the citizens, which requires discussing all positive and negative aspects of changes, which again requires competence.

There are many reasons why I consider parliament and politicians failing their duties:

If a politician is member of e party he/she has to follow party rules which prevents him/her to act in the best interests of represented citizens.

If a single party has a majority in both houses process is dominated by party dictatorship - lack of detailed discussion and rushed decision making.

Are our politicians competent? I am not convinced - not the government and not the opposition.

Following parliament discussions I consider it an adult kinder-garden. Instead of serving the Australian citizens in the best interest, focussed on the core issues at hand it is a forum of ego profiling and media focused acting to get better polls.

In my opinion only a government including several parties and independents is good for democracy. Decision making may be slower and decision may be less radical and compromised, but in the end this is better for the majority of the citizens.

Australian citizens should have the right for direct democratic powers like referendums and initiatives on council, state and federal level similar to Switzerland to keep politicians a bit more honest and to limit their powers.

I will therefore only vote for small parties and independents and not for the biggest three any more.

*Can we improve our democratic system at the election?
No - unfortunately not.*

Well yes we could but not at this election, it's too late.
Compulsory voting is one stumbling block. It was to give everyone an equal say but of course it does not take into account the vagaries of the people voting.
I know a woman who is in her 70s and has no idea what an election/auction is all about. To put it mildly she is mentally challenged but she has a vote.
I have a friend who is in an advanced stage of Alzheimer's, he also has a vote but it will be a random choice for him.
Ideally it should be mandated that all voters take an intelligence test and if they are below a certain value lose the right to vote.

I agree that Australian citizens should have the right for direct democratic powers like referendums and initiatives on council, state and federal level similar to Switzerland to keep politicians a bit more honest and to limit their powers.

The other block to democracy is allowing donations to parties and individuals.
This is just a recipe for corruption. If there is any doubt about this, you just have to look at the ongoing ICAC revelations.