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The Forum > General Discussion > how to stop the boats

how to stop the boats

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the problem of stopping the boats is easy, life imprisonment for the skipper and crew
Posted by nessie, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 6:47:17 PM
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I've got an easier solution, notify the U.N that Australia is withdrawing from or no longer willing to abide by the 1951 treaty.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 7:32:18 PM
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Better still Jay, withdraw from that most corrupt of organisations ever, the United Nations, permanently.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 7:41:27 PM
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All of the above as well as suspend all aid to Indonesia, until they stop the boats leaving.

Unfortunately, as long as there's big money involved, there's corruption.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 10:55:44 PM
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Withdraw all navy boats from Indonesian search and rescue zones after all Indonesia has NO boats in the south where all the boats sink. They deliberately do this so we have to pick up the refugees and bring them to Australia.

No more aid to Indonesia.

Turn back any boat reaching Australian waters.

If they are stupid enough to get on the boats that is there problem.

Any in Australia Temporary Visa only and they have to work for anything they are given.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 11:11:52 PM
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The first step should be to gift Christmas Island to Indonesia.
Posted by Snickerkid, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 11:49:24 PM
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Best be careful fellas, Abbott does not want them stopped, not just yet.
Not that the answers are other than heated simplistic and will not work.
A regional one may.
We here at least, tend to forget it is a world wide problem.
Just maybe Rudd is about to announce true reform of the UNHCR Charter.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 18 July 2013 6:25:24 AM
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Something many voters will never forget, is that whaever rud comes up with, at the very best, it will only ever be in an attempt to fix the problem HE CAUSED.

This is one monkey he will never be able to remove from his back, and even if by some miracle, he comes up with a solution in the next few weeks, no solution will ever recoup the billions of dollars, OF OUR MONEY that has been wasted on this, nor will he ever be able to bring back the hundreds of lost lives that he, through his arrogant stupidity, contributed to.

He should be reminded of this every single day.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:05:24 AM
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<<REGIONAL SOLUTION>> <<REGIONAL CO-OPERATION>> are weasel words.

Talking of regional solutions or co-operation when you have regional partners like Indonesia and Malaysia is like hype-talking about a rowing team, where half the "rowers" only want to sit on their hands and enjoy the scenery
Posted by SPQR, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:52:47 AM
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Abbott wouldn't vote for the Malaysia solution. We do know why.
Posted by doog, Thursday, 18 July 2013 8:02:30 AM
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Doog,

<<Abbott wouldn't vote for the Malaysia solution. We do know why>>

Can I play the Malaysian Solution game with you?

I'll give you ONE dollar and you give me FOUR.
And we'll keep playing till one of us gives-up or runs out of money--want to play?
Posted by SPQR, Thursday, 18 July 2013 8:08:49 AM
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Board the boats.
removed all fuel except enough to get back the Indonesia.
Tow the boats back to Indonesian waters.
Record where and when you towed them to.
Release them and return to international waters.
The captains then have three choices;
1 Use what fuel they have to get back to Indonesia.
2 Drift to Australia.
3 Sink the boats and drown the refugees.

I know what I'd be doing if I were a Captain.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Thursday, 18 July 2013 8:33:28 AM
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Life imprisonment for the captain and crew could have dire results for the passengers. In 1807 the British Parliament outlawed the slave trade. The Royal Navy patrolled the Atlantic searching for slavers. Slavers when in danger of being intercepted would throw the slaves overboard to get rid of the evidence. Draconian punishments don't always deter crime, but they usually ensure more drastic measures to get rid of the evidence. Murdering witnesses is another example.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 18 July 2013 8:41:57 AM
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life in prison in Australia for many Indonesians would lift their standard of living. Maybe Rudd should get life in prison for causing so many deaths.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 18 July 2013 9:08:15 AM
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All of the above & then some.

David f: Slavers when in danger of being intercepted would throw the slaves overboard to get rid of the evidence.

This is 2013 not 1807 & the people are not chained slaves. A lot of the men are Army deserters. I know who would be going overboard if that was attempted.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 18 July 2013 9:12:29 AM
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It may be that both of our main parties do not want to stir up a hornets nest by upsetting the Indonesians.
If they decided to take umbrage, then 200 million of them could walk into Australia and take over.
Better to keep them onside by giving them "aid'.
Posted by Robert LePage, Thursday, 18 July 2013 9:16:56 AM
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"This is 2013 not 1807..."

So tell us the difference, Jayb, as far as simple-minded bigotry goes on this forum?

Surely you're not trying to intimate that the views put forward here by yourself and others are any less insular or barbaric than those throughout history?

Exactly the bloody same.
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 18 July 2013 9:23:27 AM
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Oh, Poirot..., Simple minded..., Bigots? We don't have to put up with these insults & name calling. ;-)

Poirot: Surely you're not trying to intimate that the views put forward here by yourself and others are any less insular or barbaric than those throughout history.

Yes.

Poirot: Exactly the bloody same.

No they're not.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:00:38 AM
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Imprison the Captains and make them pay for the accommodation, processing and deportation of non genuine refugees. That way they do not bring illegals. Australia last year spent $6,000,000,000 on processing and accommodation of these people.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:30:18 AM
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Josephus,

Excuse me - is that figure 6 trillion?

(These threads just get more hilarious)

Pray tell, how do you suggest those captains are going to "pay" for the accommodation, processing and deportation?

Good luck with that one...

90.5 percent of claims are found to be genuine - so you won't be sending many back.

http://www.factsfightback.org.au/are-asylum-seeker-claims-genuine-check-the-facts/
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:37:27 AM
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@Poirot

<<90.5 percent of claims are found to be genuine - so you won't be sending many bacK>>

Under the present regime--Yes.

Then again, the present regime is known to have rubber stamped Egyptian jihadis, capt Imads and Somalis who later returned to fight for Al-Shabaab !
Posted by SPQR, Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:48:44 AM
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Poirot.
Obviously you reading of maths is poor.
1,000 = one thousand
1,000,000 = one million
1,000,000,000 = one billion
Where do you get one trillion? Only by adding another three 000, which is not there.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:00:50 AM
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My point is these captains are imprisoned for the equivalent time unless they pay for the processing, accommodation and return of illegals. That way they do not bring illegal people to our shores. Bob Carr suggests that about 90% of these people are economic migrants so where do you get your figures from? They are not faced with life threatening persecution.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:10:28 AM
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Right you are, Josephus

Still, you haven't explained how you're going to get those captains to pay......
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:11:25 AM
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poirot: you haven't explained how you're going to get those captains to pay.

From one Simple Minder Bigot: He's a suggestion. We charge the Indo's $1M for every boat that arrives & $100000 for every Asylum Seeker that arrives in Australia & take it out of their Aid.

Oh you dirty name caller you, poirot. Now I going away to cry. I can't take it any more. Sob, sob, bwaha!

Question. What do they do to the boats? Do they still burn them? Just think of the Customs problem with the infested timber, rat, etc. I hope they burn them. They must have a great boat building industry In Indo Just to keep up.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:36:07 AM
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Poirot,
You pedantic p**ck. Obviously it was a typo.

AS far as the boats are concerned they are burnt although we have one in Seisia harbor sunk at its moorings through wood rot.
They landed one day and asked directions to the nearest police station.

Same thing happened in Aurukun when I was based there. These blokes came marching up the main road in suits with suitcases looking for the police.

The boat simply dropped them off and headed out to sea.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Thursday, 18 July 2013 1:12:56 PM
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Robert LePage - Indonesia may have 200 million people but 1 strategically targeted missile can kill a lot and 1 nuke in the middle of a fleet would sink every one of there ships.

If we had a land border with them I would agree with you but they have to get here. Although under Rudd and co we can't seem to find a boat till it arrives on our doorstep.

Poirot - When only 10 to 15% were checked properly the "90.5 percent of claims are found to be genuine" as you claim would therefore have to be manipulated figures.

Josephus - You beat me to his miscalculation, good call.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 18 July 2013 3:01:27 PM
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Rechtub give some thought to my statement here.
Abbott in fear mongering/refusing to let Labor pass legislation/ and being generally unwilling to see the problem solved .
All in my view please his red necks.
But is that not pampering to his own followers while pushing the middle away.
Elections are not one by hope.
Abbott is on the brink of pushing himself out of a job.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 18 July 2013 4:11:59 PM
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nobody is going to catch a taxi if there is no driver, and no amount of money is worth driving the taxi if it means life imprisonment.
Posted by nessie, Thursday, 18 July 2013 4:46:05 PM
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Punishment should fit the crime not serve some other purpose. Murder and rape are major offenses which merit severe sentences. People smuggling is an offense of lesser magnitude than murder and rape and should therefore attract a lesser sentence.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 18 July 2013 6:14:24 PM
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david f - Quote "People smuggling is an offense of lesser magnitude than murder and rape and should therefore attract a lesser sentence."
Would you like to write that down and send it to the relatives of the approx 1,300 who have died on boats that were not seaworthy for the journey?
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 18 July 2013 6:48:12 PM
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Belly,if you think aout it, the libs did offer a solution, that being step aside and LET US fix the problem YOU CAUSED as we have a sound track record when it comes to stopping the boats.

You labor people conveniently forget, or choose to ignore the most important fact in all this, that being that the problem DIDN'T EXIST until one Kevin Rudd came along with his bright idea.

Now you will have a lot of egg on your face if the libs win the election and manage to even reduce the number of boats, as it will leave even the most loyal labor lovers to wonder just what might have been.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:02:38 PM
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Dear Philip S,

Those responsible for the deaths are guilty of that in itself. That is something more than people smuggling. the person who started this thread recommended life imprisonment for merely people smuggling.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:10:49 PM
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funny how all the lefties are now cheering Rudd for adopting Howard solutions. Egg all ovedr their face. Suddenly their 'compassion ' has disappeared.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:28:37 PM
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I'm not cheering Rudd for dog-whistling the electorate.

I am, however, interested in watching Abbott look like a rabbit in the spotlights now he's called upon to offer up some substance - on anything......
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:42:40 PM
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Jayb: We charge the Indo's $1M for every boat that arrives & $100000 for every Asylum Seeker that arrives in Australia & take it out of their Aid.

From one Simple Minder Bigot: I've had a think about that. We obviously couldn't Fine the Owner, Captain & Crew $1M in a Court of Law. We could charge them for the Cost of the Search & Rescue & keeping Ships at sea on Stand-by. We then could Bill the Indo's for that cost & take the Money out of the Aid we give them. It would be up to them to get the money out of the Owner/Captain/Crew & we burn the Boat. Schrimple. (!)

As for which Political Party is better at keeping the boats at bay. Neither Party has an answer that they will allow the other to have. So they are both failures. It's time to get tough with Indo & tell them to stop the people at THEIR borders on entry & send them back. They can because they are not a signatory to the UNCHR.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:57:44 PM
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Dear runner,

Funny how you see things that other people don't see. There is still plenty of compassion for boat people. The organisations that support them have not lost any members. Possibly they are not lefties.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 18 July 2013 7:59:23 PM
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david f,
No, they are just social blood suckers who get off creating something out of nothing and in many cases make a good living out of it.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:11:58 PM
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There's always the option seriously canvassed by a (now deceased) TV celebrity during the Howard era.

Her suggestion was to machine gun them on the shore as they stepped off the boat. Problem solved.

I was less disturbed by that comment than I was to the non-reaction from the rest of the media and the public generally.

Then again the only thing that's changed is the degree. The sentiment remains the same among many.
Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:52:38 PM
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Ah Wobbles,

Well, I'm sure if you are genuinely concerned with someone *joking* about machine gunning illegal aliens.

You will be UTTERLY OUTRAGED by these legalized aliens putting such thoughts into *action*.

1) "The uncle of the two suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing said Friday that they were born in Kyrgyzstan and came to the U.S. in 2003 on claims of asylum "
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/19/boston-bombing-drama-hits-immigration-debate/#ixzz2ZQzjZtip

2)"Bombers on benefits: How four refugees taking sanctuary in Britain betrayed us"
"Muktar Said Ibrahim, Yassin Omar, Ramzi Mohammed and Hussain Osman, who all came to Britain as refugees from war-torn African nations"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-467345/Bombers-benefits-How-refugees-taking-sanctuary-Britain-betrayed-us.html

And here's another , in our own backyard:
3)"The nation's two largest terror cells were linked by a common spiritual leader, joint terror training camps and close friendships between extremists in Melbourne and Sydney."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/terror-cleric-abdul-nacer-benbrika-headed-twin-cells/story-fn59niix-1226142192759

So, Wobbles, I look forward to now seeing you write good 2-3 x350 word posts condemning the systems --the misplaced compassion--which allows such people to settle in our countries.
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 19 July 2013 7:51:54 AM
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Wasn't Nauru supposed to be the fixit. People smugglers have moved past those simple solutions.
Two boats were towed back. Will never work again. Many thousands of k's coastline. How many boats we got.
Ask the smugglers.
The solution may just come by bi-passing the opposition.
Malaysia solution would have taken care of it years ago, but DR no new that to.
Posted by doog, Friday, 19 July 2013 8:15:10 AM
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Ah there you are doog!

You went off the radio screen yesterday when I offered to play the Malaysian Solution game with you.

I've got my ONE dollar ready, have you got your FOUR for the swap?

Ready to play?
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 19 July 2013 8:30:47 AM
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Rudd will probably make an announcement on PNG (processing) today.....
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 8:32:52 AM
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<<Rudd will probably make an announcement on PNG (processing) today.....>>

Rudd can make an announcement EVERY DAY between now and the next election --and I'm sure he will.

The question is: CAN HE DELIVER?

He's rather like a dry storm, lots of rumble and flashing but at the end of the show the tanks are still empty
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:00:09 AM
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SPQR,

"He's rather like a dry storm, lots of rumble and flashing but at the end of the show the tanks are still empty"

Hey, hey...as opposed to Abbott, who...well...who...um....

(I'll get back to you on that when detect some actual substance and not just slogans....could take a while:)
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:15:12 AM
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....I'll get back to you on that when detect some actual substance and not just slogans....could take a while

Yes Poirot, after the election date is announced, I would suggest.

Jayb, there's nothing illegal about suspending aid, even if it is on a Boston for Boston basis, but at the end of the day, action is what is needed, not words, and what better place to tackle the problem than where it starts, Indonesia.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:21:05 AM
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rehctub,

I'm mildly amused that you imagine that all of sudden Mr Abbott is going to be able to sidestep his foot-in-mouth and articulate clearly and forcefully under the pressure of an "actual" campaign.

The only reason he's still in the top party job is because he hasn't had to exert himself owing to the electorate's disaffection with Gillard.

Since her political demise he hasn't actually covered himself in glory with his mutterings.....in fact, he's already made a fool of himself bigtime with one particular outing.

It's quite fascinating to watch the machinations. Rudd doing an about face on just about everything Labor identified with before the 2007 election (completing the job began by Gillard) - and Abbott caught short on ability and substance up against a wily campaigner.

They're both populist and media driven.

The winner will be the one who can do it the best.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:32:38 AM
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Indonesia is where they board boats, somewhere along the coastline, at a destination only known to the smugglers. Indonesia is only involved by default.
The simplistic approach will not work, where there is money involved.
Abbott's slogan Stop the Boats, says absolutely nothing. These people are sourced from Malaysia, where they are in a processing que. That is where they should be returned to.
Posted by doog, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:34:20 AM
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rechub: there's nothing illegal about suspending aid, even if it is on a Boston for Boston basis, but at the end of the day, action is what is needed, not words, and what better place to tackle the problem than where it starts, Indonesia.

From a Simple Minded Bigot, thanks Poirot: I didn't say that it was illegal to stop the aid?

It looks like Indo is doing something at last. Stopping the buying of Visa's for Iranese when they arrive in Indo. They should di it for all of them though.

Withdrawal from the UNCH Convention is a good idea. Remember it is only a "Convention" not a Law & it has previsions in it for us to withdraw at any time.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:39:01 AM
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Poirot,

Kredit Rudd makes lots of pronouncements every day, and as in 2007 did very little. I am sure the many many meetings and photo ops he attends will promise a reduction by 2030.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:50:12 AM
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"Kredit Rudd"

Shadow, Minister - I'm really disappointed that with your towering intellect and talent for "roolly, roolly clever nicknames" that that's the best you can come up with.

Why, it's not a patch on Juliar or Whine (or even Parrot)

I'd pass your incredibly clever epithets on to Tony and Co - they need all the help they can get.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 11:01:13 AM
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poirot: Shadow, Minister - I'm really disappointed that with your towering intellect and talent for "roolly, roolly clever nicknames" that that's the best you can come up with.

From one of the Simple Minded Bigots: What in heaven's name is this got to do with stopping the boats poirot. Is this another deflection. Propose your solution to the problem & we'll evaluate it. That's how you debate, not by deflecting the question on trivia.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 19 July 2013 11:07:29 AM
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Jayb,

Mind yer own beeswax.

I was addressing Shadow Minister.

: )
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 11:10:31 AM
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Poirot, one of the libs slogans is, there is no 'I' in team work. In other words, Tony Abbott recognizes that he is just one person, in a very important team, whereas Kevin Rudd does not. He may say differently, but history speaks for itself.

Further evidence (on the carbon tax) is the fact that labor's Dr No (Penny Wong) must have been asleep at the wheel in this debate, either that, or she was not part of the process, a vicim of labor's one man band approach. Because after all, if she was listened to, then how the heck did she get it so wrong, allowing $26 per ton, when the world price is about $6 per Ton.

But, back to the boats, none of you labor lovers can seem to accept the fact that this illegals problem didn't exist prior to the man you refer to as your hero came along with his grand plan.

And to think you lot are just willing to sweep his failures under the carpet.

Unbelievable!
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 19 July 2013 11:28:57 AM
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Somewhat outdated comments. The people smugglers are a little smarter than you give credit for. And big money involved.
Stop the boats, is a slogan with no bones. The only way the libs are going to pull off an election is to install Turnbull.
Rudd has Indonesia on his side, they can work together.
Abbott has no one on his side, and saying stupid remarks will get him nowhere.
Posted by doog, Friday, 19 July 2013 11:57:24 AM
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Oh god, do wake up people.

All it needs is to sink the next few boats that do not leave our territorial waters when ordered to do so.

Not only would it stop the boats instantly, it would ultimately save lives. Much better a few bodies now, than the slow accumulation of thousands in the Rudd style.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 19 July 2013 12:47:16 PM
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Hasbeen,

"..... Much better a few bodies now...."

So diplomacy for you is just a word that starts with "d" and ends with "y"?

".... Much better a few bodies now...."

I wonder if you'd be saying that if the "bodies" were a little pinker and emanated from somewhere a little more to your approval?
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 1:05:01 PM
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poirot: I wonder if you'd be saying that if the "bodies" were a little pinker and emanated from somewhere a little more to your approval?

from a Simple Minded Bigot. It depends whether or not they were Muslim. But then again, I don't care,what they are doing is evil. It's wrong to put themselves & their children in harms way. Would you leave you child in a locked car in the Car Park while you went to the Pokies. You would be charged with endangerment of a minor. Suma Suma. Same, same.

How about a suggestion about what to do about this problem from you, poirot. Any ideas.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 19 July 2013 2:13:13 PM
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Jayb,

They are getting their children out of harm's way.

Would you leave your children in a place of danger when you had the opportunity to transport them to somewhere of safety?

This is a start as far as the barking "stop the boats" chorus and vote-buying strategy is concerned.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-18/indonesia-to-change-visa-requirements-for-iranians/4829434
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 2:31:24 PM
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The following may add another perspective
to this discussion:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/07/10/abbott-indonesia-and-the-cop-it-sweet-doctrine/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

Worth a read.
Posted by Lexi, Friday, 19 July 2013 2:34:26 PM
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While I want the boats stopped our standard of debate on the issue has taken a dive.
Pure ignorance from RABBOTT that it is a local issue not an international one points to the birth of our ignorance about the subject.
Too to the red neck hatred, Tony why do you alway chase the lowest levels for support.
I am forced to wounder, just what would the world think if they dropped in to this thread to find out about Australians.
If only!
If only Tony Abbott had looked for answers not sponsored continuing arrivals so he could use the issue!
Posted by Belly, Friday, 19 July 2013 2:53:16 PM
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Poirot: They are getting their children out of harm's way.

Your simple Bigot: By putting them on a leaky unsafe boat? How stupid are these people.

Poirot: Would you leave your children in a place of danger when you had the opportunity to transport them to somewhere of safety?

Your Simple Bigot: Muslims wouldn't hurt children. Would they?

If these people wanted to get their children out of harms way they could go to a friendly Muslim country close by without having to put their children in harms way by make a dangerous sea crossing. It was the Ayatollah Khomeini in his speech in WA that told the Muslims to get to Australia so they could be converted to Islam. That's why they come here.

Hi Lexi, yes, yes, we all know Abbott is stupid. He won't be there when the Election starts in earnest anyway.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 19 July 2013 3:33:20 PM
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Kevin Rudd suggests a three-pronged solution to the
problem:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/18/kevin-rudd-immediate-deportations-boats
Posted by Lexi, Friday, 19 July 2013 4:18:33 PM
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@Poirot,

<<They are getting their children out of harm's way>>

And that's how they play us.

They send unaccomplished children --so soft hearted (& headed) us release them.

Then the children get to sponsor their mother --so we fly in the mother.

Then the mother gets to sponsor her husband and her other mature aged children.

And pretty soon they're all over here. And it would appear that many of us are none the wiser.

If we were giving get out of detention centre cards to redheads, most of the boat arrivals would be redheads.
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 19 July 2013 4:29:24 PM
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unaccomplished s/b unaccompanied
(they are very very accomplished -at deception)
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 19 July 2013 4:52:26 PM
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All unaccompanied children must be sent to Christian School, given Christian names & taught Christianity.

No sponsoring of parents as we really don't know who their rightful parents are because they have no Documentation. If they do have Documentation it doesn't matter, obviously the parents didn't want them otherwise they wouldn't have sent them unaccompanied on such a dangerous trip.

It would then be up to Australia to save them from such a terribly hateful religion.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 19 July 2013 5:06:19 PM
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Poirot - Quote "They are getting their children out of harm's way." The majority on most boats are 95% men only lately are there more families.
but still no where near the number of single men.
Posted by Philip S, Friday, 19 July 2013 6:53:03 PM
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Philip S: The majority on most boats are 95% men.

According to the Guards on Xmas Is. most of the men are Army deserters anyway.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 19 July 2013 7:11:52 PM
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Build a fence.
Posted by carnivore, Friday, 19 July 2013 8:02:58 PM
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carnivore: Build a fence.

What in the Ocean? (_*_) ;-)
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 19 July 2013 8:22:06 PM
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Well folks That's all I think.
Big Kev has cut you all off at the pass.
They'll all be goin' straight to 'hell' opp, sorry I meant New Guinea
Of course now we'll have to put up with the law suits and the deaths in custody and the lawyers and are the kids going to be sent there or ripped from their parents.
How much money has Kev promised NG and where is it coming from?
Australian territory is only 30 km from the NG coastline.
God I wish these blokes would think things through.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Friday, 19 July 2013 8:57:13 PM
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PNG will only be temporary measure. Kev sees it as an election winner. What happens in six months we are yet to see. Their real goal is to reach Australia because of its welfare system. Does PNG have employment for these people or will they join the rascal gangs to survive.
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:06:45 PM
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As I said on another thread, I just can't wait to see the expression on the faces of the asylum seekers as they are welcomed to PNG to live. I can imagine one of those groups of dancing ladies in traditional dress welcoming them.
The asylum seekers cannot complain about the conditions, after all there are around 7 million PNG people living under the same conditions.
Posted by ozzie, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:09:52 PM
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I reckon this New Guinea agreement means Rudd is going to an election soon. He must know the PNG thing won't hold together more than a few weeks. SBS is already announcing a report on the horrors of the Manus Is camp.

Of course he has no interest in it working, just holding long enough to improve his election chances with the majority who want the boats stopped.

Once it fails, if elected he can, & will let the boats ripe in as before. He is planning on a UN job before he would face another election.

I must say I would be bitching like hell if I was a PNG citizen. With their primitive law & order, Muslim gangs there would make the US mafia look like a bunch of fairies.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:13:40 PM
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Has been,

The PNG people will give the muslims more than their money's worth. If they play up or create any disturbance, the PNG tribes will simple attack them with clubs and knives. I think the asylum seekers will show a lot more respect to the PNG people than they do to Australians. PNG people wouldn't have any idea what political correctness is. They will be viewed as foreigners invading their land and they had better tread very lightly.
Posted by ozzie, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:30:12 PM
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I wonder how the do-gooders will react when the muslims in New Guinea will open the border to those from West Papua ? Considering they're all backing Rudd in the deal. He is literally handing New Guinea to Indonesia. Yes Judas err, Mr Rudd that's what you're doing.
Posted by individual, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:40:17 PM
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Yes, individual, he's a big fat hypocrite.

Get a load of this from his then Immigration Minister, Tony Burke from 2008.

http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/speeches/2008/ce081117.htm
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 19 July 2013 9:43:36 PM
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I LIKE it sending them to PNG now all we have to do is get Ian Rintool and the other advocates to move there to look after them.

Poirot and Marilyn sure they can find a hut for you to live in.
Posted by Philip S, Friday, 19 July 2013 10:07:42 PM
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Philip s gets in to two posters he disagrees with.
Both are likely, almost certain to dislike my view.
Poirot will know it.
I can not hide from it, I am as I am.
Some cruelty involved in the solution.
And watch and think about the temporary leader of the Liberals.
If he is out riding his bike now, about the right time for an undoubted athlete, he will be looking for frogs to run over.
His anti Malaysia stand was based, so he told us if you think you can believe it, on it being cruel.
He thought, we all did, nothing was going to work , *for Labor, or him*.
It is cruel, not as cruel as drowning, it will work.
IF it does? ALP future government should increase yet again its intake of true refugees who have been waiting for years.
Goodonya Kev!
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 20 July 2013 6:35:37 AM
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Although hasbeens approach may seem barbaric, the other option is we wait until they decide to bring weapons with them.

As far as Rudds concerned, he should find a solution, because after all, he caused the problem which also wasted billions of our money along the way, money that WILL NEVER be returned.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 20 July 2013 8:07:51 AM
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Kev has come up with a default Malaysia plan. What a marvel, the man has turned the asylum problem into a regional problem instead of an AU problem.
Real solutions, not Stop the Boats,slogan.
Turnbulls web site is humming like a mob of hungry bees.
The man would be ok except for his claytons NBN. I think the exercise is we foot the bill to the house, from the node. Best Tony hangs in there, no good causing unnecessary popularity swings now.
Indonesia has given the nod to KEV and says his plan is a good one effective immediately.
We have to be friends with our neighbors, no need for antagonizing any one.
Good time for another debate about things that matter
Posted by doog, Saturday, 20 July 2013 8:16:35 AM
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New Guinea has a hell of a lot more to offer than Australia so I would not be the least surprised if Indonesia didn't jump at the opportunity to guide fellow muslims there instead of here to quickly establish a stronghold before the final onslaught on Australia.
The mindless Judas crowd will see a temporary relief & gloat on that until the curtains draw on the final show.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 20 July 2013 9:31:49 AM
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Next decision must be to make the decisions of the Immigration Department final and remove the self-promoting quango that wastes TAXPAYER money and frustrates democratic processes. The immigration minister is answerable to the Parliament.

The Immigration Department has the expertise of dozens of highly paid Senior Executive Service managers who can work directly with DFAT on changing needs. It was only short-sighted political gutlessness that created quango to interfere and almost immediately the quango concerned acted in ways that were opposed to the will of the Australian people.

Denmark and other countries do not entertain any appeals against the decisions of their immigration departments.

It is blue sky for Rudd or Abbott to break the business models of the lawyer and other advocacy leeches with their snouts in the trough of TAXPAYERS' money. They have been bleeding taxpayers white, crearting jolly good incomes for themselves from the illegal migrant industry.

Along with the treacherous Greens Protest Party these self-interested professionals have been blackmailing governments and giving oxygen to the criminal gangs involved in people smuggling. It isn't the criminal gangs alone who dream up ways of beating Australian government policy. The gangs have plenty of help from professionals especially lawyers who get secondary gain out of the tawdry trade.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 20 July 2013 9:48:19 AM
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Poirot,
You are right, hypocrisy in spades1

Thanks for the link, now I need to find what Rudd said in 2008.

Rudd has no credibility, he is just like 'honest John' the used car salesman. How can anyone believe what he says? But some will.

He will abandon the new policy after the election and things will be as before. Look how he caved in over the 'Oceanic Viking' fiasco.

Where does this blatant turnaround leave you, Lexi and all the other Labor supporters who believed in Labors policy and have been arguing that case. It certainly leaves you high and dry.

How long before commentators question Rudd's credibility? I slammed Gillard for lying, but Rudd is at least her equal, if not worse.
Posted by Banjo, Saturday, 20 July 2013 10:15:10 AM
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rehctub - Quote "the other option is we wait until they decide to bring weapons with them."

They don't have to bring them, they can get weapons here from the same place the bikie gangs get them or like in the riot on Nauru knives and other weapons stolen from the kitchen before they destroyed it.

OH what lovely people we have coming here, make me want to take them home to meet the Rottweiler.

Quote "Ian Rintoul, from the Refugee Action Coalition, said detainees had been protesting on Nauru all week over delays in processing their claims for refugee status." BAD LUCK they were told it could take up to 5 years could not wait 6 months Deport them, now watch them complain they have no facilities and have to live in hot tents with no aircon
Posted by Philip S, Saturday, 20 July 2013 10:24:25 AM
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It's hard to fathom the mentality of the "youth" who have once again rallied to Rudd's side, if anyone under 30 is reading this just remember that Kevin was the man who wanted to censor your internet and who has previously gotten "tough" by suspending the processing of asylum claims for a time in 2010.
As Johnny Rotten famously asked his audience in the last days of the band "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 20 July 2013 10:29:11 AM
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Nauru riot biggest, baddest ever: witness
Saw that headline just now. Why can't they use their fighting spirit against their oppressors who they're supposedly fleeing from ? I tell you why. Because they're not fleeing & they get really pi$$ed off when they failed in the mission they were on & that is to get into Australia.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 20 July 2013 11:02:40 AM
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http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/07/19/1226682/163743-130720-bill-leak-gallery.jpg
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 20 July 2013 2:31:03 PM
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SM, just think of how many take that deadly serious.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 20 July 2013 2:39:40 PM
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The boat people are usually Islamic and totally incompatible with our culture. Kevin Rudd created the problem when he dismantled the Pacific Solution and the do-gooders and immigration lawyers have made it worse. I suggest we ignore the do-gooders and close the law faculties (force them to study maths or science and contribute to our nation rather than weaken it)
Snickerkid suggests we gift Christmas Island to Indonesia and I support this. We also need to withdraw all naval units from the west Coast of Australia. It is a joke that we rush to the aid of these boats even when in Indonesian waters.
Posted by SILLER, Saturday, 20 July 2013 3:55:56 PM
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What the "do gooders" need to accept is that none of the things they want and the harmony they envision cannot be achieved in multiracial societies, if Sweden and Norway can't make it work nobody can.
Every time socialism (or social democracy) has been tried in homogenous societies it's worked for the most part, look at the aforementioned Scandinavian countries, Ireland, Israel and so forth, every time it's been tried in multiracial societies it's failed, see South Africa as the most recent example. China and Vietnam are successful socialist countries but they segregate out the ethnic minorities and keep them way out in the provinces for the most part.
Every boatload of Sri Lankan or Iranian colonists arriving here or every planeload of Indians or Chinese pushes the egalitarian dream further and further away, ethnic diversity is not a strength when it comes to achieving social justice and an equitable society, it's a weakness.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 20 July 2013 5:24:44 PM
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Individual,
There are hundreds of thousands of Afrikaners in South Africa who are in dire poverty and face severe repression and discrimination by the state, what is the Australian government doing to help them?
http://censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.com.au/2008/11/afrikaner-poverty-politically-incorrect.html
What about the 18% of Irish children who live in poverty?
What about the Greeks whose kids may never find work or live the lives their parents had?
These people will make a huge difference to Australian society if given refugee status, it's already been proven, this society was founded and developed entirely by poor and working class Europeans.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 20 July 2013 5:40:29 PM
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These people will make a huge difference to Australian society if given refugee status,
Jay of Melbourne,
The Marilyn Shepherds & the Paul1405s would never allow needy, decent folk in. Their idea of helping is to fast-lane those who are against us & want to drag us down.
Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of marilyns & pauls voting in Australia.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 20 July 2013 5:47:43 PM
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Come to think of it, what about the many australian pensioners doing it tough. How about letting them have some of the care afforded so promptly to the invaders ?
Posted by individual, Saturday, 20 July 2013 6:02:03 PM
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What's the difference between towing them back, or taking them to PNG, because either way, if they don't want to go they may still choose to jump in the water in protest.

....Come to think of it, what about the many australian pensioners doing it tough. How about letting them have some of the care afforded so promptly to the invaders ?

Yes Indi, many of them must be feeling very betrayed, given they have worked and paid taxes all their lives.

I will say this till the day I die, Rudd caused the problem and, no solution will ever get OUR MONEY back.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 20 July 2013 6:11:56 PM
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Looks like another $60,000,000 repair bill for damaged goods on some God forsaken island that we (Australia) destroyed a few years ago by allowing the phosphate to be mined leaving the locals starving.
Our sins always come home to haunt us.
It seems Mr Rudd is going to take on a Obama role and use executive powers to move the new arrivals to NG.
I didn't have much empathy for them in the past but having policed the place I certainly do now.
Can you imagine the terror being struck into their hearts when some of the oldest civilization people come into contact with the savages of that place.
The High Court is going to be flooded with petitions and injunctions based on human rights and natural justice and the lawyers are already spending the cash.
Who needs fringe benefits with this flood of money coming?
Personally I think Rudd has panicked and moved too far in the wrong direction....again.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Saturday, 20 July 2013 7:57:03 PM
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Individual,
There's not so many of them anymore, which is a bad sign when you think about it.
Let's face it, Iran and Afghanistan will never produce a Sidney Myer or Elizabeth Murdoch nor even a Bob Brown or Ian Rintoul, the only way to work toward a progressive, equal and equitable society is ethnocentrism and Nationalism. There's nothing wrong with these "do gooders",they have good hearts but if they were simply prevented by law from harming the nation they'd still be valued and needed and they'd still be able to devote themselves to helping the poor,the aged,the sick and the disabled.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 20 July 2013 9:55:48 PM
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You stop the boats by sending the passengers to Mannis island.
Posted by doog, Sunday, 21 July 2013 6:44:15 AM
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.....You stop the boats by sending the passengers to Mannis island.

Yep! It holds a few hundred, or, maybe six boats.

So what do we do with the other umpteen thousands doog?

Of cause your beloved Mr Rudd could have left a well proven system alone, but then that wouldn't be Mr Rudd, would it!
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 21 July 2013 6:53:30 AM
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Dwelling on spilt milk will not solve anything. Malaysia would have solved the problem years ago, but the dogooder Abbott new best.
Move in to the year 2013 which is where we are, and access the currant situation. The New Guinea plan has loads of merit, there won't be many takers, these people are not that stupid, they are just que jumpers. There is 60,000 Vietnamese in Malaysia waiting to come to AU. The big attraction is AU, take that of the list and the goal post's move.
So all is good, and try not to worry it's not good for your health.
Posted by doog, Sunday, 21 July 2013 7:17:08 AM
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Interesting times. Rudd has a poor record in stopping the illegals from coming, as has Labor. They even have a poorer record in implementing any scheme.

Will the voters believe Rudd is fair dinkum and will the illegals believe him. The scheme will be tested.

I never thought Keating could win an election, but I was wrong.
Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 21 July 2013 9:30:29 AM
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Malaysia would have solved the problem years ago,
doog,
No it wouldn't on the contrary. You don't do much reading do you ? Or don't you get what you read ?
Unless you understand what this is all about you shouldn't state things like that.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 21 July 2013 9:54:25 AM
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doog - Malaysia solution was a disaster waiting to happen.

We give them 800 people (plus taxpayers have to support them while they are in Malaysia)
They give us 4,000 which again taxpayers have to support.
Plus all the transport costs etc all paid for by AUSTRALIAN taxpayer.

That was a negotiating win for Malaysia and incompetence by our officials.
Posted by Philip S, Sunday, 21 July 2013 10:18:25 AM
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How long were the boaters going to keep coming knowing they were going to end up back in Malaysia on the end of the que where they came from. And spent their money doing it.
Posted by doog, Sunday, 21 July 2013 11:09:04 AM
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How long were the boaters going to keep coming knowing
doog,
you're not thinking the way they think. Ask yourself this. Why are they trying so hard to come to Australia ? What country is Malaysia ? what have those "refugees" Malaysia & Indonesia in common ? Do you really think they're concerned about Australia being overrun by their fellow believers ? Do you know what the refugees are being promised to set foot on australian soil ? Do you know what other rewards are promised ? THINK !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 21 July 2013 1:43:15 PM
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@Doog,

<<How long were the boaters going to keep coming knowing they were going to end up back in Malaysia>>

A bloody long time...

So Doog, you and your mate Ali are two of the 200,000 illegals in Malaysia. Like most you are there seeking work, it pays better than back in India. But it's dirty, dangerous and very hard.

You lose contact with Ali for a week or two, and when next you see him he's well dressed, well fed and no-longer interested in looking for work. He now spends most of his days at home reading the papers or watching Bollywood TV.

You ask him what gives, how has he come into this lifestyle.He tells you he took a slow boat to Oz. He later admits he didn't actually sail very far --just 30KM off the coast. And then he called Oz emergency-- on a number provided by refugee advocates -- and the Oz navy came and collected him, took him all the rest of the way. It was just like being on a P&O cruise, he relates ,sun baking on deck, warm spas below deck, and all the while crew served up free food and drink.

So what are you doing back here now, you ask. He tells you that, when he got to Oz they simply flew him back to Malaysia on an airbus A380, with free food and drinks and vids all the way. But and here's the catch, now he's back in Malaysia, the Oz govt has promised it will pay for his upkeep. So now he doesn't have to look for work anymore. And he's now on some sort of "list" wherein he will one day still qualify to go to Oz, but he is in no great hurry, at the moment life here is too good.

The next day you contact a people smuggler to take you to Oz. But you are disappointed to learn that all his boats are booked, for 2years. The slum dwellers of Calcutta having heard about the Australian govts generous Malaysian Solution have booked cruises to Oz
Posted by SPQR, Sunday, 21 July 2013 4:11:08 PM
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SPQR - I like the analogy above only problem is it will go aver the heads of the refugee advocate fraternity.

At least in PNG it will be an inhospitable place for them that may stop a lot.
Posted by Philip S, Sunday, 21 July 2013 4:21:55 PM
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Philip S,
yep, a little exposure to PNG PC will open a few eyes. We really should send our do-gooders there for a few months. Make it no time spent in PNG , no BA from Kelloggs.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 21 July 2013 6:09:39 PM
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There are a lot of skilled and educated Italians, Irish and other Europeans waiting for visas or acceptance into Australia. Why do we need to accept these unskilled boat people when people who can contribute are forced to wait in line? The boat people are usually unskilled with nothing to contribute. They are destined to be a future underclass with their religious baggage and their frequent mental instability. They have a habit of self mutilation, jumping off roofs or into the ocean, trashing and burning facilities built for them. We do not need these people and they will be a millstone on our backs for generations.
Posted by SILLER, Sunday, 21 July 2013 6:13:57 PM
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If this latest deal stops the boats from leaving Indo, well, that has to be a good thing.

What Mr Rudd now needs to tell us, is at what cost to the Australian tax payer, and he should do this prior to the election, tipped to be last weekend in August.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 22 July 2013 7:27:50 AM
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Probably the same as it costs now. Should be funded from foreign assistance money. Tony is desperately trying his best to discredit the plan, but at the same time saying he will keep it if they win govt;
Saying New Guinea will be overrun etc is not helpful. What comes from AU will be monitored in Indonesia. The vote is 75% in favor of N Guinea.
Posted by doog, Monday, 22 July 2013 8:30:09 AM
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The single biggest stumbling block to the issue of the boats is the amount of aid we bequeth to Indonesia. Stop that and they will stop the boats. It's absolute garbage the amount of money wasted on this corrupt nation. I for one do not like my taxes being frittered away like this. How many old folk could we care for on that dough, or childrens hospitals, or cheap housing for homeless? We don't have any leaders only self serving idiots who shouldn't be allowed out the front gate.
Cliffy
Posted by Cliffy, Monday, 22 July 2013 8:48:15 AM
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Nessie opened this thread with " life imprisonment for the skipper and crew" well it will be " life imprisonment" for the refugees that's for sure
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Monday, 22 July 2013 1:08:14 PM
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