Hi Poirot,

I can't do better than Maryam Namazie here:

Siding with the Oppressor: The Pro-Islamist Left

A new report by One Law for All entitled “Siding with the Oppressor:
The Pro-Islamist Left

<http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/siding-with-the-oppressor-the-pro-islamist-left/>

” exposes Stop the War Coalition, Respect Party, Unite Against
Fascism and individuals such as Ken Livingstone and George Galloway
and their agenda and methods.

This section of the Left uses accusations of racism and Islamophobia
and a conflation of Muslim with Islamist in order to defend Islamism
and Islam rather than out of any real concern for prejudice against
Muslims or their rights, particularly since Muslims or those labelled
as such are the first victims of Islamism and on the frontlines of
resisting it.

The report has been written as a companion volume to “Enemies not
Allies: The Far-Right

<http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/new-report-enemies-not-allies-the-far-right/>

Like the far-Right which ‘despises’ multiculturalism yet
benefits from its idea of difference to scapegoat the ‘other’ and
promote its own form of white identity politics, the pro-Islamist Left
also uses multiculturalism to side with the oppressor by viewing the
‘Muslim community’ and ‘Muslim world’ as homogeneous entities
thereby ignoring and silencing dissenters.

This politics of betrayal sides with the Islamic far-Right and the
oppressor. Challenging this perspective is especially important given
its wide acceptance as ‘progressive’ in mainstream society.

Any principled point of view must oppose all forms of fascism,
including Islamic fascism, and instead side with the countless people,
including Muslims, who are fighting and challenging Islamism here in
Europe as well as the Middle East, North Africa and the world."

So which side are you on, Poirot ? Women's rights, or fascism ?

Your choice :)

Joe

Hi Poirot,

Referring to an earlier post:

Perhaps urbanisation and women's rights are loosely correlated ? I wonder, that as reactionary, rural societies break down under the pressures of industrialisation (Marks I, II & III), women especially are closely involved, at first as grossly-exploited factory fodder (I), - but perhaps indirectly, the daughters of that first generation move on and up, with better schooling, into higher positions, and become more assertive (II), - laying the groundwork for a third generation of women who have the freedom to decide that they can be whatever the fcuk they want to be (III).

It seems to have happened pretty effectively for 'Poirot's people'. Or perhaps some women crave to go back to being confined to the kitchen, bedroom and fields ? Poirot ?

No, I didn't think so.

Cheers :)

Joe

Another disingenuous question from Loudmouth - Ho hum.....

The point which both Anti and I have been making on this thread is that it's all very well to have an ideal. However, invading a undeveloped and tribal country which has been formed and its practices upheld for eons, setting up a supposed democracy and wishing it to magically take up modern Western conventions, doesn't necessarily mean that the outcome is going to be the one you desire.

I'm sure it's wonderful to be simplistic and prattle platitudes about doing the right thing by women, but ignoring reality is not necessarily going to translate into monumental change because Westerners feel that it should.

Merely offering you a dose of reality...I'm always fascinated how you try and turn discussion on these issues on a coin...that is Loudmouth is good good person because he wants equality for women vs "anybody who points out reality to him" who by definition must desire inequality and bad outcomes for women.

You're just one of the many on this forum who can't debate fairly without holding yourself up the goody while painting your opponent as the baddie.

No surprise that you're still at it.

Joe,

You automatically assume that people who work in fields, or who live close to the land in general are "unhappy".

Sorry, but I take that to be a Western arrogance.

Yes some of the people who work in fields are unhappy as are many Western people who toil in factories and in other jobs.

Frankly, mate, the West has only been doing this for a few hundred years, and there are myriad ways that people live and work on this planet.

I think you should broaden your perspective - you shouldn't necessarily assume that Western life is the only one which can deliver a sense of well-being, plenty and contentment.

(and I do understand that it's often difficult for a Westerner to look outside the square of his own experience)

Hi Poirot :)

Up until the time of the end of the various Marxist governments from the late seventies to the early nineties, Afghanistan had a fairly vibrant urban society, with full women's participation at its universities, somewhat like Iran's situation. I don't think there has been a thoroughly backward, reactionary society in Afghanistan since the mid-nineteenth century - well, until your friends, the Taliban, took over from their fellow-Islamists, after a series of very bloody civil wars, in 1996. Ah, the good old days of backwardness, you may say, but really that was an illusion. Life had already changed.

Now that Afghanistan is trying to industrialise, to go through the horrors of early nineteenth-century Britain all over again, one way for women to avoid those horrors - perhaps you wouldn't agree- is to get a far better education than their own parents - including their fathers - and take up much more powerful positions, and thereby transform - if you like, Poirot, 'revolutionise' - Afghan society.

I long for the day. But of course, that puts me at odds with my erstwhile Leftist colleagues.

Cheers :)

Joe

Thank you, Poirot, for the tiny, but precious, pearls of your wisdom.

Experience ? Well, I did ten years in factories (Metters, Arnotts, Kodak, Balfours), and another eight or ten in rural work, fruit-picking, pruning, hay-lumping, etc. Actually pretty easy jobs, compared to what women in peasant societies have to do, day after day, until their backs are gone. It's not all skipping gaily to work, singing together all day such charming folk-songs, merrily bringing in the sheeves.

So you've tried it ? Rural work ? Fruit-picking ? Day after day during winter, pruning, fencing ? Crutching sheep ? Such fun ! Lugging containers of water half a mile from the fetid pools ? And all the while, trying to keep your kids occupied. Ah, the good times !

How did you DO it, Poirot ? And still keep a smile on your beautiful face ? [I got that right, didn't I ?]

Cheers :)

Joe