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The Forum > General Discussion > Abortion is and isn't murder

Abortion is and isn't murder

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Lexi you may do better on the research than I have but from what I can see abortion is quite legal in Florida although state funding restrictions apply. The issue seems to come from a Federal Law, The Unborn Victims Of Violence Act.

One summary of Florida Law I found was at http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/florida.html

An article on this case at
http://www.policymic.com/articles/43265/florida-abortion-trick-how-should-laws-treat-people-who-trick-others-into-getting-abortions

And a Right to Life summary of the Unborn Victims of Violence Act at http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/keypointsuvva.html (referenced in the previous article).

From the NRLC Summary
'The law covers the "child in utero," defined as "a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb." The law explicitly provides that it does not apply to any abortion to which a woman has consented, to any act of the mother herself (legal or illegal), or to any form of medical treatment.'

It is a tricky issue, my overall view is that a law which says it's murder unless the woman does not want it to be so is not a good step overall for women's reproductive choice.

There should be penalties for the assault but if the woman was free to abort the child then the law is sexist nonsense.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 23 May 2013 6:35:58 PM
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Expecting men to accept a worse deal, as Suse does, is sexism. Women who want to have sex without becoming pregnant have a range of contraception to choose from, plus abortions. Suze expects men who have no wish to become fathers to abstain from sex. There is nothing wrong with wanting men to have a similar range of options as women.
Posted by benk, Thursday, 23 May 2013 9:24:59 PM
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Where did I say I expect men to abstain from sex Benk.?

I just expect them to take at least some of the contraceptive load off the women, by the use of condoms.
The male contraceptive pill production was abandoned for exactly the reasons I gave...

The act of forcefully causing a woman to lose a pregnancy against her wishes will always be a crime, whether you like it or not RObert.
Posted by Suseonline, Friday, 24 May 2013 1:30:00 AM
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Suzie, I' trying to work out if your misrepresentation is deliberte, poor comprehension or misandry.

I already made it clear that I consider what appears to have been done as a serious assault against the women. That should be a crime and nothing I've posted should suggest otherwise.

Simple enough.

What I don't accept is the idea that it's murder if someone else does it without the womans consent but not if it's something she wants. That piece of legislation may well be a not so thin edge of a wedge attacking reproductive choice.

It answers some emotive needs but undermines the basis that abortion whilst not often liked is generally accepted as a womans choice because another human life is not involved. If it's deemed to be another human life in the mix then there is a massive case for far more restrictive laws on abortion.

A don't much like abortion but accept that there are good reasons for not considering an early term fetus to be a human being and therefore consider that the womans choice overrides other concerns about early term abortion. Convince me that the fetus is legitimately andmeaningfully human and my view on abortion changes.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Friday, 24 May 2013 8:16:14 AM
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'There's no point acknowledging Runner when he gets up on his pulpit...I don't ! '

Oh dear Susie of all people to speak of pulpits. At least I am consistent with my views not just backing the sisterhood no matter how abhorrent.
Posted by runner, Friday, 24 May 2013 9:09:34 AM
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onthebeach,
I found your comments about litle stats being available interesting. I take it you have tried to get the stats and found they are not collected.

For some time now I have been lobbying against FGM and have tried to get stats of its occurance in Aus and similar to you the stats are not collected. This enables the polys to claim the incidence is not high and therefore not upset any group with the truth.

Like you I think this is political censorship as many stats are collected about other issues. Obviously they do not want sound facts to be used by those argueing either for or against the issues.

Interesting to know I am not the only one to encounter 'stats not available'.
Posted by Banjo, Friday, 24 May 2013 9:12:57 AM
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