david f - Whilst I'm only too happy to debate this particular subject til the cows come home, I don't believe it has any immediate relevance to the original intent of the thread. Would it be too much to ask that you create a new thread specifically stating your point of view in order that those contributors who wish can debate the pros and cons of educating rug-rats in the finer points of intelligent design versus educating same in darwinian evolution.

Dear praxidice,

Thanks for your suggestion, but I am unaware of any finer points in intelligent design.

david f, you will never accomplish any political reforms while you cannot see past your personal, fanatical atheism to the general issues like "tax exemption" or "public funding of private entities".

You will simply alienate potential allies and are therefore doomed to fail.

Dear shockadelic,

You have a queer notion of being a fanatic. Wanting science taught on the basis of scientific evidence is, to your mind, being a fanatic? I guess to you it is. Hypatia, a brilliant woman who was a mathematician, astronomer and philosopher, was murdered by Christian monks in 415. Michael Servetus, who discovered pulmonary circulation, was burned at the stake in Protestant, Calvinist Geneva, in 1553. Giordano Bruno, who suggested that our solar system was just one of many, was burned at the stake in Catholic Rome in 1600. None of them were fanatics. However, the Christians who murdered them were fanatics.

I am an atheist but not a fanatic. Given the choice of being burned at the stake or saying that I believe in the Christian mumbojumbo I will say that I believe in the Christian mumbojumbo. Fortunately Australia is not a theocracy, and I can be honest about my beliefs.

david f - Fortunately Australia is not a theocracy, and I can be honest about my beliefs.

Certainly, but you aren't entitled to demand that your personal beliefs are taught to the exclusion of all others, which is the distinct impression you are giving. I personally, and I suspect most Australians, have no problem with teaching BOTH Darwinian evolution AND intelligent design in schools, whether as optional or compulsory subjects being up to the particular school. In fact I consider teaching intelligent design in isolation is to be deplored. The label applied (whether science, theology or mumbo-jumbo) is immaterial). Some of the maths subjects I studied at university were within a maths unit & others were within laboratory units, whatever the label on the unit, they were still maths subjects. For what its worth, there is a substantial number of scientists who don't perceive Darwinian evolution & intelligent design are incompatible, maybe you'd find 'The Creator and the Cosmos by Hugh Ross enlightening.

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Dear praxidice and Shockadelic,

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I think david f has raised a valid point which is pertinent to the matter under discussion on this thread.

In his opening remarks praxidice introduces a gentleman "who reportedly devoted 53 years of research and study into constitutional law".

Individual picked up the ball and ran with it by commenting:

"Just think that Australian schools don't teach the Australian Constitution. It's a clear indicator where we're heading".

To which praxidice replied:

"Of course not, that would make it much harder for schools to do the job intended of them, i.e., turn out good little team spirited sheeple who follow footbrawl or thugby religiously & who belong to either the red team, the blue team or the green team".

David f intercepted the pass and ran for goal with this observation:

"If schools taught the Australian Constitution people might wonder why S.116 isn't followed ... Government aid to sectarian schools, ... teaching of creationism or intelligent design as science, ... "

Both of you, praxidice and Shockadelic tried to tackle him on that.

Individual came back with the comment:

"If people were to develop an interest in our Constitution then they WOULD KNOW how to make them listen. Alas , thanks to our education system !"

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the total number of students in Australian Schools exceeds 3.5 million, with 2.3 million of those attending Government schools, compared with 700,000 at Catholic schools and 500,000 at independent schools.

Non-government school numbers continue to grow at a much higher rate than government schools. In the last ten years, Catholic and Independent schools have seen a 12 per cent and 31 per cent increase in student numbers respectively. This compares with just 2.6 per cent increase in government school students.

The increasing influence of religion in education through Catholic and so-called independent schools should not be underestimated and evacuated from our debate.

Nor the fact that Australia is a constitutional monarchy whose head of State is also Supreme Governor of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith.

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