Wayne Swan, by his own admission, said that the budget forecasts are Treasury numbers, not labor's numbers.

He went on to say that this is the same treasury that provided economic advice/forecasts for the much successful Howard government, and I assume, the Keating government prior to that.

So, if the treasury was the same, yet the economic results were so far apart, TWICE, then surely it's the fault of the labor party, on both occasions that is to blame.

Even now, we have this same treasury, predicting a carbon price in Eruope that is in the order of a 300% increase in the next two odd years and, Wayne Swan is once again relying on this in his budget forecasts.

Who can ever forget the failed MRRT, which, by the way, account for much of the expenditure, before the money was collected.

Even Richo is questioning the budget forecast, and he's labor through and through.

Apathy is the problem.

When the mug punter realises both sides are taking them for a ride we may have a chance of solving the problem. Sever parasite infestation.

Hang them all this September and bring on proportional representation.

Rehctub – Do blue sheeple only eat blue grass?

Even Richo is questioning the budget forecast, and he's labor through and through. HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA,HA, HA,HA,HA,HA, HA, HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA,HA, oh dear, oh me.
Graham Frederick Richardson a Labor sell out, if ever there was one! Next thing Butch you will be claiming Ronald Wilson Reagan was a communist. Thanks for that comment you have made my day.

Producer

Apathy is the problem.

When the mug punter realises both sides are taking them for a ride we may have a chance of solving the problem. Sever parasite infestation.

That would indeed be a reasonable assumption, however I believe you are ascribing far too high a care factor to the sheeple. One needs to figure a way to get politics higher on their list of interests than thugby / footbrawl / Days of Our Drearies / Home and Away. In 'funny countries' they have things like military coups or revolutions or assassinations to keep the bloodsucking parasites on the ball, but Australia being a 'civilized' country, we don't do things that way. Mind you we also have the advantage of media under political control (or is it politics under media control ??) and even sedative in the drinking water if you choose to believe that story.

rehctub,
You persist with your belief that Howard and Costello were good economic managers. They weren't!

They, and earlier governments under the influence of neo-liberal conservative economic theories, sold off Common Good assets to their top end of town mates to balance their budgets and make re-election handouts.

It is easy to show that money used to attain sovereign government surpluses is simply destroyed. If you don't believe that then you should explain why the Future Fund does not have sufficient funds to buy back the Common Good assets sold.

During the Howard era private debt, particularly on credit cards and home mortgages, exploded. Overcoming that problem has imposed serious difficulties on the Rudd and Gillard governments.

Actually that high private debt has made sovereign government deficits almost unavoidable. The Labor Government has had to stimulate the economy to increase demand (and reduce the output gap) in the face of the bottom 70-80% of the population struggling to reduce their debt load.

Before introducing such nonsense discussions you need to get abreast of money theory by at least reading the blogs at New Economic Perspectives and Professor Randall Wray's primer on the subject.

Just dropped in to thank Rechtub.
That first two lines wins my award for failure to understand for this year.
Butcher it is ROTFL! always Treasury figures that ANY TREASURER reads on budget night.
Enjoy, see ya.

Foyle, true the reliance on easy credit did increase until the GFC provided a huge wake up call for everyone.

However, is there an excuse for a govt spending beyond one's means to the extent Labor has

Praxidice- Your wrong it’s “Groan and Dismay”

With regard to media, that is controlled by vested interests. Social media is yet to be totally controlled. Wouldn’t it be great if there was a grass roots seat by seat campaign with the aim to hang the next election? That would scare the bastard’s.

Just on the sheeple theme, I think perhaps there’s a need for some nursery rhymes. Something like:

Baa Baa Blue Sheeple
Why do you treat us as fools
Well sir well sir
We think you’re a bunch of tools

Then there’s:
Baa Baa Red Sheeple

Not to forget:
Baa Baa Green Sheeple

If we can get a grouse bunch of jingles together perhaps the can be recited on the “Voice” or “Australia’s got Talent” or “Rage” or even in church.

Producer
If we can get a grouse bunch of jingles together perhaps the can be recited on the “Voice” or “Australia’s got Talent” or “Rage” or even in church.

Actually I attempted to go one better with a new thread based on a very interesting online booklet written by a certain Arthur A. Chresby. I couldn't imagine any reason why the moderators took exception to it but it hasn't appeared in quite a few hours.

Ok Paul, so you've had your laugh, so tell me, do you think the projections from treasury are realistic?

Belly, I see little point in repspondng to you lately, as once challenged, you simply run off to another thread.

So I ask you the same question.

And remember, while treasury may well provide the forecasts, it's the treasurer that decides whether or not the numbers are credible, and more so, whether or not to try to sell the unsellable. After all, look what happened to the last forecast.

At the end of the day, anyone can predict anything, but gambling our future on it must be questioned.

Rehctub – If you had a proper gander you would see other comment?

Dear rehctub,

Maybe this might help:

http://www.newmatilda.com/2013/05/14/swan-delivers-fails-sell

Here's a rhyme from Queensland:

Hush-a-bye-baby, on the tree top,
With all the cuts we've lost our whole crop

With the election more cuts will come
Hush-a-bye-baby, the outlook is glum.

I don't think it has anything to do with treasury. What's more I don't think the last 12 months of catastrophe is ant incompetence, I think it is a pure act of vindictive spite by the red witch.

She is out to cause as much trouble for Abbott, by leaving the economy in the worst possible position she can. Poor dumb Swanny may or may not understand all this, probably he does not, & is just a pawn.

That all this will cause immense pain for the Oz population is a bonus. It pays us back for not loving her, & accepting her as our beloved leader.

She will be living the high life on her recently increased super., laughing her head off at us as we try to claw our way out of the mess.

Hasbeen - I think it is a pure act of vindictive spite by the red witch.

Could well be, Hell has no fury like a woman scorned & all that

Poor dumb Swanny may or may not understand all this, probably he does not, & is just a pawn.

I've had the misfortune of meeting the dying duck several times and its fairly obvious he was out of town when the brains were handed out. He's had a rather chequered political career & is very unlikely to get another chance by the good people of Lilley. From what I've heard, he isn't exactly the most switched-on representative. The clown had a very 'interesting' run-in with certain authorities a while back, seems a used car salesman crony provided him with a vehicle and said authorities saw fit to ask a few pointed questions about the circumstances. As I recall, the media feasted on the story for some time.

Belly,
Which part of Labor can't manage don't you understand ?

Dear Individual,

So the International Monetary Fund, the Reserve Bank,
and world economic experts have it all wrong and that
our economy is in good nick and we've been given
a triple A rating, and that we're the envy
of other countries around the world, is something that
we need to ignore.

Makes perfect sense to some I guess.
Thinking is obviously not everyone's strong suit.

So if that's the case Lexi, care to explain how you would describe the shape we were in pre labor?

As I say, to win any race, you needn't be very good, just better than the rest.

Dear rehctub,

To win this particular race it's far easier when you've
got big media, big business and big money, lined up
supporting you. Then it becomes rather hard for the
other side to get any message out. And its the media
that influences polls and public opinion.

As for what was it like before Labor? As we all should
know the Coalition had the fortune to hold office in
good economic times, especially from 1996 to 2007 when
the Howard government enjoyed the dividends of the
Hawke-Keating economic reforms and when the world economy
was enjoying a long speculative-driven boom. Good luck,
perhaps, but not good management.

The Howard administration neglected the asset side of
public finances. If the Howard Cabinet had been the board
of a publicly listed company, the shareholders would have
thrown them out for weakening the company's asset base.

It's very easy to leave money in the kitty when very little
was done over 11 years of the Howard Administration. And let us
not forget that according to the OECD overall taxation in
Australia increased when the Coalition took office in 1996.
Taxes were then higher throughout the entire Howard/Costello
period than at any time during the preceding Hawke/Keating
years.

Still the public eventually kicked them out of office and
Howard was only the second PM to not only lose the election
but get kicked out of his electorate as well. I guess that
was a massive indictment of the Asutralian people and
their judgement of character.

It shall be interesting to see what happens if the Libs
win the next election. The Libs are the party that keeps
telling us that government doesn't work. Then they get
elected and prove it.

' I guess that was a massive indictment of the Asutralian people and
their judgement of character.'

Yep and I suppose you will agree that the coming election will be a 'massive indictment of the Asutralian people and their judgement of character.' we will see what the people think of the sisterhood after a few short years of lies, incompetence and spin.

Dear runner,

I suspect you must belong to some sort of "brotherhood."

As you seem to continually assume that women belong to
some sort of "sisterhood," to which you keep on referring.

Most of us don't. So kindly do not judge others by
your own club memberships, or gender conspiracy theories.

Allow for individual differences.

Besides it's not logical or well reasoned, or polite.

Sisterhood or no sisterhood between the gays and the lesbians in the Labor government and the Greenhood they certainly managed to stuff this country up especially when you include boat arrivals social security spending and handouts like the insulation and solar largesse.
Will the NDIS be means tested. I know plenty on disability with their own homes and six figure bank accounts. Sure there are plenty that need help but why does obesity and alcoholism qualify as a disability?

cont'd ...

I forgot to add that if -
the Libs win the next election it won't be
an indictment on the Australian people.

What it
will show is the power of big media, big business,
and big money. However, things will change very
quickly as they're doing in Queensland, Victoria, and
NSW, once people have a taste of what they're in for.
Especially for the vulnerable in our society. After all
welfare is bad for business and people either sink
or swim. And if they sink, well then that's just too
bad according to the politics of money and power.

Lexi,
I totally underestimated you. I thought you had fairly thick skin but judging by your replies you have an even thicker skull & mind.

Chris Lewis,
Sorry but I didn't notice your comment earlier. I have been on one of my other retirement projects all day.

A sovereign government can finance worthwhile projects that put unemployed people and other otherwise unutilised resources to work. When has a bank ever refused to honour the cheque of a sovereign currency issuer?

A budget surplus should only be an outcome when it is necessary to slow down an overheated economy; never when 12-14% of the available workforce is underemployed as is the situation in Australia at present. The rate of growth of the accumulated government deficit can always safely match the rate of growth of the economy.

Whenever there is a surplus the private sector loses financial wealth to the government provided the balance of trade remains about the same. Surplus government income over and above expenditure is useless as it accomplishes nothing.

Instead of a debt truck, or clock, we need something showing forgone wellbeing.

When the situation was even worse than it is now (during the worst years of the GFC) the school improvement program and the insulation programs were worthwhile. In some states the state administrations were less than competent in applying the money made available although the work was urgently needed to support demand so planning time was limited. Also those governments were incompetent at supervising the companies undertaking the work. Too many are blaming the Rudd and Gillard Labor Federal Governments when all they basically did was allocate the funds.

I suggest that at the moment this country needs 100,000 units or more of affordable housing probably best provided as semi-detached units on older 500+ sq m. sites. The funding could easily be provided by the Federal Government at less than 4% interest, they borrow it for less than 3.5% and could even avoid paying that.

Do you read New Economic Perspectives?

Foyle,

I will have a look at New Economic Perspectives.

While I agree with some of your sentiment, especially for govt to do much more on housing, I am not sure the Govt it was good enough in regard to the HIP or BER, although i am sure these projects were reasonable ideas that could have been done much better.

My article was not against the HIP, more about the haste of the program which was driven by the Rudd Govt.

....To win this particular race it's far easier when you've
got big media, big business and big money, lined up
supporting you. Then it becomes rather hard for the
other side to get any message out. And its the media
that influences polls and public opinion.

Yes, I guess it's a bit like the tons of dollars the union threw at their anti work choices war. Hurts doesn't it!

Then this...good economic times, especially from 1996 to 2007 when
the Howard government enjoyed the dividends of the
Hawke-Keating economic

Yeh, like the 90 billion of labor debt.

..... I guess that
was a massive indictment of the Asutralian people and
their judgement of character.

No, you mean the ones who supported this incompetent mob all the way to the mess we are in. Thanks heaps!

Well at least the libs won't be able to waste as much money as this incompetent mob, CAUSE THERE AINT NONE LEFT TO WASTE! Thanks again!

Chris Lewis, this has been labor's problem all along, as to them, the passing of legislation is an achievement however, it's simply an approval. And implementation has been their weakness, time and time again.

Good rid dens I say.

Lexi said;
So the International Monetary Fund, the Reserve Bank,
and world economic experts have it all wrong and that
our economy is in good nick and we've been given
a triple A rating, and that we're the envy
of other countries around the world, is something that
we need to ignore.
unquote
In a word yes !
They really do not have a clue and surprise surprise many economics
experts have commented that neither austerity or money printing is working.
None of the run of the mill political and economic experts are ready
yet to look at what is happening. That includes the Liberals & Nats.
All they seem to be able to say is that the current malaise will
continue for many years. I believe some of them are aware but it is
an unpopular thing to say as it cannot be so as no one can see how to deal with it.

World wide debt as ballooned out so much that it cannot be repaid at
anywhere near current growth & contraction rates.

rehctub,

yes, the implementation of public-funded programs by govt is an important criteria of a successful govt.

My opinion of Labor, in regard to HIP, was that it was a disgrace, so much so i could not vote for them in 2010

Dear Bazz,

I will repeat what I've stated on other threads and
what was on the link I proveded earlier, and I quote:

"The Australian economy has grown by 9 per cent since
the onset of the GFC. Our unemployment rate was only
5.5 per cent last year and is not expected to rise
above 6 per cent. Yes we're running a deficit - but it is
a tiny one - $18 billion in underlying cash terms - our
deficit is only 1.1 per cent of our gross domestic product.
By the time the budget returns to surplus sometime in the
next few years Australians will have a government debt of only
11 per cent of GDP. A negligible figure by any sensible
judgement."

"Anyway you look at it ordinary Australians are doing okay
under this government. Nearly a million jobs have been created.
Inequality has steadied, perhaps even fallen. Standards of
living have kept rising. Interest rates are at record lows."

The fact that some people can't see this is a massive
indictment of those people's judgement. We do know that Mr
Abbott will establish a "Commission of Audit," he told us
that last night. This is a well-worn Liberal tactic used by
Premiers Newman, Baillieu, and O'Farrell to avoid disclosing
their real plans prior to an election and keeping secret the
massive jobs, education and health cuts headed our way.

As I've stated previously, Australians deserve a little more
respect from the man who wants to lead the nation. The
upcoming election will be held against a back-drop of a fast-
changing world. The central challenge for political leaders
and aspirants is to ensure Australia's continued economic
resilience in this time of change. Mr Abbott has done nothing
to establish his and his party's economic credentials.
He promises a great deal but doesn't tell us how he's going
to pay for any of it. The only way out of this magic pudding
is to make massive cuts. Which is what Howard did. Nothing new
there. Libs cut and save. Labor has to fix and spend.

Dear Individual,

I think that you've got me confused with
someone who cares what you think.

I've realised a long time ago that thinking
was not your strong suit.

Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge,
you just gargle.

Cheers.

Oh yeah, Lexi!

Don't you know that individual has a copious and ever-expanding repertoire of ways to ad hom. Instead of addressing the issue, he merely informs his target that they are stupid, thick, morons, etc....

Works for him.

: )

......"The Australian economy has grown by 9 per cent since
the onset of the GFC.

So Lexi, tell me, if we have had the growth, why have we gone from + 20 billion, to
-200 odd billion?

Then this....Labor has to fix and spend.

So what went wrong Lexi. They spent, but what have they fixed?

You then accuse the libs of having un costed policies, so where is the money coming from for Gonski. Not that it matters because they won't have to find the money, come Seotember.

As for unemployment, when are you ever going to admit that the numbers are a sham.

More so, if labor created hundreds of thousands of NEW JOBS, then why has unemployment risen.

I'll tell you why, because what they havnt told you, is that for every job created, another has been lost.

I know that, but obviously you havnt yet caught on.

I'll give you one thing, you are labor through and through, but, I hate to say this Lexi, but you have blood on your hands, because without support from the likes of you, we would not be is such a mess.

I just hope that you have learned from your mistakes this time, as we are running out of chances.

Now as for the libs making cuts, please tell me Lexi, what would you do to pay back labor's RECORD debt?

They have already tried to over tax about the only sector that's going anywhere, AND FAILED. So that's off the menu, so what else Lexi.
Continued

Continued by Rehctub

ps, I had to laugh when Bill Shorten said the average worker, at age 30 will be $20,000 worse off in their super under Abbott.

See, her we go again, where's the figure come from.

Is he stupid enough to think we will never have another GFC style down turn in the next 35 years.

Has he JUST ASSUMED that those workers are going to have jobs, and that their super is going to return x$ growth.

They (labor) can't predict what happens in one year (return to surplus at any cost) let along 35 years.

More scare mongering from a crumbling government.

The fact remains that this government has, by your own admission Lexi, enjoyed a 9% growth while in office and squandered the lot, along with some $20 we had, p,us another $200 billion for good measure, and they havnt finished yet, because once they are gone, TA and the lins will have to stop the boats.

Step one for me would be to suspend all aid to Indo until THEY stop the boats leaving.

Instead of addressing the issue, he merely informs his target that they are stupid, thick, morons, etc....
Poirot,
Oh yeah ? Then who are those two who get asked countless times to offer answers & solutions but they never do because they're incapable of obliging ? Hmmh let me think ! I think they're called Poirot & Lexi.
I have offered solutions on many of my posts only to be ridiculed by the likes of two ignoramuses. Ignorant to the reality thick you are trying to colour pink in your closed & made up little academic minds.

rechtub,
the Lexis of this world are impervious to reality & they're so sucked in by whatever is remotely smelling of something academic. Pragmatism & opening their minds to reality are a task they simply can't perform simultaneously.
If they were to join a circus they'd be cleaning up behind the elephants because they couldn't even make it as clowns. The Labor circus is probably the sadest compilation of clowns possible.

Excerpt from a Ross Greenwood paper doing the rounds. There's a lot more but we have a 350 word limit. You can probably find the rest on the net.
In USA today:

Lesson # 1:

Why the U.S. Was downgraded:

* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000 * Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000

Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:
Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts: $385

Got I

Lexi, i have to disagree with you.

Why i will not vote Labor is because of three reasons

1)It has been too slow in implementng change in accordance to what it mostly gains support for (education and health);
2)it hardly gives me confidence in regards to policy implementation (many policy debacles) and even its big picture policies such as the carbon tax are based on wishful thinking at best.
3)I cant see what it has done to address the balance between consumption and production. This last point is crucial to the well-being of any nation.
4)there is other important issues such as housing and defence.

Now i am sure if the Coalition will be any good either and lift its game in these difficult times, but i expect it to do much better in regard to most of the above criteria. That is enough for me.

What Individual and rehctub do not understand is that a sovereign government, one that issues a country's currency, is nothing like a household.

The sovereign government is charged with keeping the potential of a country fully employed to maximise the wellbeing of the country's citizens.

That requires that the government often has to create the money necessary to achieve its aim. The accumulated government deficit can always grow at least at the rate of growth of the real economy. The sovereign government need not even pay interest on the debt; it could simply sell its bonds to the Reserve Bank which it owns on our behalf.

Unfortunately the USA is a special case; its currency is the international reserve and the currency of world trade. All the currency created to fund those two separate situations probably appears somewhere in the balance sheet of the USA government.

As an example, the USA provides a loan to the IMF to fund drought relief somewhere. That loan appears in the USA budget documents. That situation gives the USA a tremendous, undeserved, economic advantage. Undeserved at least since the 1970s, when the USA became a debtor nation.

International trade and sovereign government reserves should be in a basket of currencies as Keynes proposed at Bretton Woods. Had Keynes proposal been accepted there probably would not have been several wars and certainly no Asian Crisis or GFC. A Jullia Gillard recent comment indicated that she understands this situation.

As I have said earlier on this site, in this sort of argument, most of the commentators have little knowledge about the subject.

To overcome that they need to read more.

The following provides a list of articles that would be a reasonable start;
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2011/06/modern-money-theory-primer-on.html

The sovereign government is charged with keeping the potential of a country fully employed to maximise the wellbeing of the country's citizens
Foyle ?
Then why don'y they do that ? Oh yeah, the pollies getting 50 grand a year more etc & pleasing the Labor back bone is far more important. Shows how much they care.
It also shows that they don't know what you're telling us here either.

Yes Indi, I posted that on another thread, none of the labor lovers could offer comment.

Foyle, if it's as you say it is, why then the mad panic to return t surplus in the first place. Remember the Surplus at any cost, or the , failing is not an option.

Sure goes against what you say, dont you think?

Dear rehctub,

Try being objective and looking at things from
different perspectives, if you can:

http://www.newmatilda.com/2013/05/14/budget-night-numbers

Dear Individual,

The highest form of ignorance is when you reject
something you don't know anything about.

What Individual and rehctub do not understand is that a sovereign government, one that issues a country's currency, is nothing like a household.
Foyle,
I'd have thought Ross Greenwood knows what he is talking about hence my drawing attention to his analysis.
Lexi,
Until you can prove that you're actually capable of understanding reality I will continue to retort in the same manner you're treating others with. You may be using nicer words but they do not hide the destain & lack of understanding.

Chris Lewis - Now i am sure if the Coalition will be any good either and lift its game in these difficult times, but i expect it to do much better in regard to most of the above criteria. That is enough for me.

The present situation in Queensland has more than a few LNP voters questioning their sanity in electing Newman / Seeney / Nicholls. Sure we had to depose the incomparably inept Blighters but I suggest the experience proves conclusively the insanity of awarding **ANY** gubmunt a massive majority. Bloodsucking parasites of whatever colour are wont to crap on about the wonders of 'stable' gubmunt (ie massive majorities and hence a 'mandate' to do the most inane things with no opposition), question is how many sheeple are still sucked in by this unmitigated male bovine dropping ??

Lexi,
I watched that video & found it rather curious that there were gunshots but no screaming or other uproar which is the norm at such incidents. Somewhat odd.

The present situation in Queensland has more than a few LNP voters questioning their sanity in electing Newman / Seeney / Nicholls
Praxidice,
The crux of the Qld situation is that the Newman Coalition Government is governing with the whole of the Labor public service working against them. I know for a fact that some bureaucrats are doing that deliberately but the bulk of them doing it simply by not changing their ways, they're continuing in the useless, pointless, corrupt & incompetent manner they've been taught since Goss & refined by Beatty & Bligh. As has been stated over & over, Labor can not manage.
As much as I have supported the Coalition if Clive Palmer does indeed stand I'll switch my support to him because of the inaction by Newman to rid the state of the top brass in the public service, instead & wrongly they're laying off workers.

Indi, Clive is getting close to receiving my vote as well.

I just wish he had more time under his belt.

My main persuation will be that he actually runs a business, not a tax payer funded charity.

As I say, he's a MAKER not a TAKER.

The Labor tragics are deluding themselves that Labor has a good story to tell, but just can't seem to sell it, in spite of the hundreds of millions of taxpayer funded political advertising.

The problem is that in spite of Labor's spin machine going into overdrive, the past 5 years of outright lies, broken promises, and an unending string of policy failures have left Labor with credibility deficit even larger than the federal deficit. The reason Swan's budget presentation and question time was lack lustre was that after 5 years of never delivering on a single budget, Swan probably didn't believe the figures, and neither did anyone else.

individual - The crux of the Qld situation is that the Newman Coalition Government is governing with the whole of the Labor public service working against them.

Quite true, however its interesting that Newman / Seeney / Nicholls decided in their wisdom (or more likely as it transpired, the lack thereof) to 'clean out the wasteful public service' Yes well, anyone with a plurality of functional grey cells would start from the unproductive top levels and work down, however the clowns did exactly the opposite, leaving the very people they should have targeted in place. Not exactly the smartest move & a pretty good indication of the level of nous belong Newman / Seeney / Nicholls.

Shadow minister,
The absolute tragedy in all this is that there are still people in our midst who STILL SUPPORT LABOR after so much blatant incompetence. It makes one wonder how or if they even think.

rehctub - Clive is getting close to receiving my vote as well

I came to that conclusion a while back. Clearly the red-headed witch has passed her use-by date, the Greens are nothing but an ALP appendage & the RAbbott, like Newman / Seeney / Nicholls, can't be trusted to lie straight in bed. If I had my way with the AEC, I'd insist that ballot papers contain a 'none of the above' provision to reduce the chances of any bottom-feeding bloodsucking parasite who gets the kind of landslide we saw in Queensland last March crapping on about a mandate.

individual - The absolute tragedy in all this is that there are still people in our midst who STILL SUPPORT LABOR after so much blatant incompetence. It makes one wonder how or if they even think.

I find it equally scarey that there is no shortage of one-eyed LNP tragics who honestly believe the sun shines out of the RAbbotts nether regions. How can any halfway sane being given unqualified support to ANY party, particularly the major ones & the Greens ?? For all we know, Big Clive could turn out to be a disaster too, but at least he has a clue how to run a successful business, something no other politician in living memory can claim.

Praxidice,
i'd not thought of you as a two wrongs make a right sort of person before.
I have never said nor will I ever say that parties other than Labor are perfect. What I am saying is that in the history of this Nation no party has ever done so much irreversible damage. big Goaf started it & all others just followed suit. The conservatives are a little more responsible & competent although they too have their fair share of hangers-on.
Clive might just have the gonads to sort out the corrupt & incompetents from either party.

individual - i'd not thought of you as a two wrongs make a right sort of person before.

Unintended, I don't hold with political corruption of any kind, regardless of what colour jersey the winning team wears. whilst I accept you argument (with some reservations) that the ALP probably takes the cake for outright ineptitude, its merely a matter of degree. Remember that Little Johnny & Joe Peanut weren't exactly shining examples of anything but looking after number one. I guess I am a bit more anti-LNP than I would otherwise have been due to the current state of Queensland courtesy of the Newman / Seeney / Nicholls dictatorship. This mob have completely re-written the textbook on 'hangers on'

individual - Clive might just have the gonads to sort out the corrupt & incompetents from either party.

Yeah, I certainly hope thats the case. The bloke has at least demonstrated ability to run a successful business & doesn't have a legal or priesthood background, the latter being factors common to at least two of the worst political grubs of recent times. Realistically do we have any other viable option ??

Shadow Minister - The reason Swan's budget presentation and question time was lack lustre was that after 5 years of never delivering on a single budget, Swan probably didn't believe the figures, and neither did anyone else

Note the story in todays hard copy media about the federal ALPs half-billion dollar war-chest. Wouldn't it be funny if the red-headed witch forgot to declare it officially as an expense item before the gubmunt goes into caretaker mode, thereby making it available to whoever ?? Whilst someone suggested the RAbbott would be the one most likely to benefit, so could Big Clive although I figure he has a bit more integrity than to squander taxpayers money on buying votes.

Dear Individual,

You continue to accuse others of not thinking
but look at your continued attacks on academics.
Odd to say the least. Unless of course you're
somehow lacking in your self-esteem area.
That's why I stated earlier that thinking was
obviously not your strong suit.

It's thanks to the people that you keep putting
down that we have things like - the world - changing
inventions that have come out of this country.
Things like the Black Box Flight Recorder,
which today every commercial plane carries,
Spray-on Skin - saving people's lives, including the 2002
Bali bombings, the Electronic Pacemaker, the Cochlear Implant
(Bionic Ear), the Ultrasound Scanner, Plastic Spectacle Lenses,
Gardasil and Cervix Cancer Vaccines, and the list goes on.

I do live with reality, it seems that you need to think before
you post.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You keep referring to the "lies" of Labor.
That as we all know is a ruthless exploitation by
the Abbott Opposition and it has spawned a political
craze in trying to expose the opponent's so called
"lies."

But what about the Opposition's penchant for stretching
the truth on impacts of the Carbon Pricing Scheme?
George Brandis's assertion that the Carbon Pricing
Scheme was responsible for 1,900 job cuts at Fairfax
was a cracker. It was merely a natural extension of the
dubious claims that the Carbon Pricing Scheme would wipe
towns off the map, spark mass shut-downs of industry
and send families to the wall under crippling power prices.

The collapse of trust in politics is a defining feature of
our current political culture driven largely by the
kind of negative politics that has characterised the carbon
debate.

Of course the public disdain for this minority government is
helped along by the tabloid media, the shock jocks,
and the fact that the minority government is so good at
passing legislation goes unnoticed.

Labor does desperately need to become more open, transparent
and democratic. Howver it knows this, a Committee of wise
men, one of whom was Bob Carr told it so back in 2010.
However under Gillard's leadership, internal reform has stalled,
which it need to pick up.

Historically Julia Gillard's Prime Ministership will be seen
as an unusually active and reforming period in Australian
public policy. Her legislative achievements have not
translated into public understanding let alone support.
That is unfortunate. But as I've stated previously, when
you've got big media, big nomey, and big business against
you, it's difficult to get any sort of message out.

Also more broadly there are declining levels of trust in
most aspects of our entire political system - including the
media and its role in reporting on it.

Lexi,
Are you seriously linking these fabulous inventions to Academia ? I think you've done it this time. These inventions were made (obviously) by people with a strong sense of pragmatism not by those hangers-ons in the public service. Most significant inventions were made by people who thought about a problem, how to solve it, made things, tried them out etc. not by those who just repeat what others told them i.e. academics.

>>Are you seriously linking these fabulous inventions to Academia ?<<

From wikipedia:

>>Professor Graeme Clark A.C., then Foundation Professor of the Department of Otolaryngology at the University of Melbourne in 1970, led the team that developed the Australian prototype bionic ear<<

See the 'Professor' in front of his name? And the bit where it says he worked at the University of Melbourne? Those make him an academic by any normal definition of the word academic. Academic is a term that covers all university professors - the useful ones like engineering, medical and science professors - as well as the less useful ones like arts professors.

Cheers,

Tony

Dear Individual,

As I wrote to you earlier, the highest form
of ignorance is when you reject something
you don't know anything about.

Education is a progressive discovery of your own
ignorance. And judging from your posts it seems
that yours has been limited.

Tony Lavis & Lexi,
Give me the numbers of people with an academic title & then give the numbers which are of use to the rest of us or more to the point, are worthy of the Dollars we give them.
There are exemplary individuals in all walks of life but the most component of useless ones is within academia.

Lexi, with regards to the inventions you mentioned, this further proves jus how incompitent this mob are, as rather than inventions, this mob have been renowned for stuff up after stuff up, and that's when fixing something that's already been invented.

So let me ask you then Lexi, if you get your way and labor win another term, do you honestly think they can change their ways.

Furthermore, do you think it's worth the risk, given we can I'll afford another term like the last two.

Dear Individual,

Okay, I'll give you a few names - although
you could have Googled them yourself under
the inventions I gave you earlier.

There's Professor Fiona Wood, and her team, of the
spray-on-skin, for burn victims. There's
Professor Graeme Clark and his team, of the cochlear
implant (bionic ear). There's of course Professor
Ian Frazer of the Gardasic and Cervarix Cancer Vaccines,
to name just a few. And of course we have all the many people
at CSIRO which is Australia's leading pre-eminent
public research organisation, making Australia one of the
standout countries in terms of human development status.
It is not corrupt. Its science is world class.

Still, when ignorance (and vested interests) are confronted
by scientific facts, new ideas instead of being welcome for
the opportunities they open up for the improvement of
the human lot, historically were also often viewed as threats
to those who had become comfortable in their ideologies
(religious or otherwise). Nothing new there. Ignorance does
not like change.

But back to the topic. The key to success in this,
the global century if os course investing in Research and
Development. As we know innovations are not always
immediately successful. Innovation is not an abstraction nor
is it an end in itself. Tough times demand creative solutions
and investing in R & D will help find these solutions.
An investment to make Australia more productive and more
competitive - increase our capacity to find new ways of doing
business is the key to building a modern economy based on
advanced skills and technologies.

The ability of technology to transform the way energy is
consumed and supplied has to be found. Electricity, oil,
et cetera, will become expensive and we'll have to use
something else.

Humans are very bad at preparing for change but they are
very good at adapting to it when it arrives.
The world will look different in the future, but we will
cope with it and we will have the "academics" to thank
in being able to do so.

Dear rehctub,

I've lived under both Liberal governments and Labor
in Victoria. Under Labor we had excellent hospitals,
health care, Libraries, and our TAFE Colleges flourished.
Under the Liberals all that went down the gurgler.
Even rail services to rural areas were destroyed.

You talk about Labor stuff-ups. They are miniscule with
what we've had under the Libs. As I've written to you
in the past - let's have a debate on the economy but
let's make sure we stick with the facts and not on the
beat-ups in the tabloid press - which misrepresents
our debt. The fact is Australia's net debt is dramatically
lower than the net debt levels of every single major
advanced economy.

Labor made a choice to support local jobs during the GFC
a choice many countries around the world didn't or
couldn't make. They will be paying a very high price for
many years. BTW - Australia's debt is so low it has a gold
triple A rating. Interest rates are low and our economy
is the envy of the industrialised world.

But you go on believing whatever you want. Come September
you will possibly be able to see how right you were.
And if Mr Abbott and his Party wins, it will be interesting
to see how well you're doing in a few years. Perhaps you'll
be fine, but I guarantee that the rest of us won't be.
However - be happy with what you believe - if its right
for you and your family that's all that matters. Right?

As Harold Macmillan stated, "Events dear boy have a way of
making idiots of us all!"

Cheers.

Okay, I'll give you a few names - although
Dear Lexi,
Ok, now tell me where these people would be if it weren't for those sweatshop workers making the equipment which made it possible for them to use & build on ? Not to forget those people who did the groundwork for them. I'm by no means degrading their fantastic findings but please credit all to whom credit should be due. The most skilled can't do without the help of others who don't get their rewards apart from wages.

Dear Individual,

Each of us I'm sure has people to Thank along our
life's journey who have contributed to it both personally and professionally.
We can only trust that none of us forgets to do
so.

Invariably, the way we colour the world will be from our
own agendas, our own unique view. And that is rarely in
black and white.

Cheers.

Gillard and Swan started the present term with the most outrageous lie. Having guaranteed the voters that there would be no carbon tax and denouncing the liberals scare campaign that labor would introduce a carbon tax, they went ahead with a flimsy excuse that conditions had changed and their guarantee was worthless.

Every budget since then has been an elegant work of fiction with Swan cherry picking optimistically high revenues and low expenditures, and every budget blowing out by about $20bn. The corruption and wastage by federal labor has been echoed at the state levels.

Labor's contempt for the voters reduced their massive lead in 2007 to a hung parliament in 2010, and will in 2013 leave labor with almost wall to wall rejection by voters of Labor arrogance.

Shadow Minister - Labor's contempt for the voters reduced their massive lead in 2007 to a hung parliament in 2010, and will in 2013 leave labor with almost wall to wall rejection by voters of Labor arrogance.

I can just see the story in 2019 going 'The LNP contempt for the voters reduced their massive lead in 2013 to a hung parliament in 2016, and will in 2019 leave the LNP with almost wall to wall rejection by voters of LNP arrogance.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Here's the flip-side to the coin you're spinning:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/editorial/abbott-focuses-on-profit-not-people-20130517-2js2r.html

cont'd ...

And another one that may help:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbotts-budget-reply-porkie-pies/