One quote I remember;

Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite
world is either a madman or an economist !

Kenneth E Boulding

Bazz as you know I am unimpressed by one of your needless shots/insults in another thread.
A very telling comment showing a form of bigotry.
I take it you total sidestepping this threads subject is because unlike you, I am informed on that, different subject.
Unions gave birth to Labor.
Unions, give cash to Labor, as do employers groups to Liberals get free rooms from business ALP get them from unions, nothing to hide there., .
The out come of the meeting, not the place it was held, is the subject of two posted links, in my current thread.
The out come of that meeting, in no ways the place it was held, in no way!
Is subject of my open contempt in that thread,and clear evedence factions are harming the ALP.
Did I see a comment here? claiming those who do not yet support a small Australia are, what was it? fools?
Some comments are quite interesting, but uniformed.

Thanks Bazz and ateday for your support.

.

Interesting post rehctub.

<< …growth is not so much a problem, as the type of growth. >>

Yes, yes YES!!

What we desperately need is to eliminate the bad types of growth, as far as is possible. This is just so fundamental to the good management and governance of our country. It is incredibly basic, and yet we are just so so far from achieving it.

We are so so far from even starting to head in that direction!! It really does boggle my mind.

<< The whole system has been allowed to deteriated for decades… >>

Yes indeed! And this has happened at the same time that we have had very high population growth, and a huge mining boom, and been told by our totally misleading politicians that this growth is the answer to all our ills! But this population growth has gone a very long way to cancelling out the improvements we would have gained from the mining boom. It is the primary reason why the whole system has deteriorated!

<< … and it will take many years to fix… >>

Yes, even if we were to enter into the right sort of political paradigm which reduced bad growth to a minimum, it would still take an enormously long time at enormously huge expense to fix.

continued

<< …but the trouble is, any government that try's to implement change, will be swiftly voted out. >>

Absolutely! The task is nigh on impossible for as long as we have continuous rapid population growth that is exerting huge continuous pressure on all of our infrastructure and services, and rendering all efforts to fix them nothing more than a feeble attempt to try and counter the population pressure. This means a feeble, and failing, attempt to stop them from getting every worse!

<< So I essence, you may be right after all. >>

Please to hear it rehctub!

So then, the key to all of this is to work out which growth is good and which is bad, and to get our government to actually differentiate between them instead of lumping all types of growth in one bucket and espousing it as being good and only good… and to actually start properly managing the country as a government should!

And lo and behold, if they did this, they would indeed be steering us straight towards a sustainable future!

I guess that's a start, Ludwig.

One of the more blatant misrepresentations that continues to dog these discussions is the "all-or-nothing" approach. Typically, this appears as a sneering "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist", as if those who disagree with the anti-growth brigade are infantile cretins, who don't comprehend basic mathematics.

You yourself indulge in it in a slightly less offensive manner, but equally misunderstanding.

>>If we are going to have continuous population growth, it surely needs to be totally rigorously, scientifically, economically, environmentally and ‘qualityoflifeally’ justified!<<

I am not an advocate of "continuous population growth". I understand the mathematics of compound increase. But I also believe that populations do find their equilibrium as and when the conditions that encourage growth are absent. Which is one of the reasons I find references to other populations - Sweden, Japan etc. - as meaningless in relation to our own situation.

We are, in my view, a very long way from reaching that equilibrium in this country. We have the economy, the environment, the space, the smarts, the capacity to innovate and a whole lot more, all going for us.

If that is seeing the glass half full, then so be it.

>>I note a very significant omission – no mention of the PROBLEMS that further increases in population would or could bring<<

Yep. Problems that can be overcome, if we set our minds to it. They won't be overcome, however, if we simply say "we're full, go away". This is an attitude that will, inevitably, present a whole new set of problems, which we will be far less able and willing to tackle - once sclerotic thinking sets in, it lasts for decades. Just ask the people of NSW. Successive governments of all political persuasions haven't tackled a single substantial problem since the 1950s.

Ludwig,
I am not sure that you can separate growth into different categories.
I suspect that there is flow between all categories that evens out.
All countries are suffering either lowering growth, China included, or
some are very close to zero growth, or have gone negative.

In these conditions any government will either have to borrow money or
cut back anyway they can. I think the government has already faced that
but cannot act because the election is so close.
If the government changes, there will just have to be major cutbacks.
A new government will get abused on a scale seldom seen as they apply the cutbacks.
Immigration will have to carry a major part of the cutbacks.
I find it hard, although I am no expert on government internal finance
to see how they can avoid cutbacks in defense, education, hospitals and other major areas.