For the last three weeks or so I've had a devil of a job trying to have this battered ol' computer of mine fixed, reparied, or 'tuned'.

So with final resolve I call an 'expert' who agrees to come around to our humble abode with promises to restore it to its former glory, all for the modest fee of $215 !? Gulp ?

He arrives in a timely manner and immediately confronts the offending apparatus and launches into this verbal denunciation as to what's actually wrong with it. From that point forward, I haven't the foggiest idea what he's saying, as he dilegently shows me the various wherewithals that's causing my machine to fail. As I quietly stand there with my 'thousand yard stare', he pauses occasionally waiting for some sign of my understanding and acquiscence and naturally it never comes.

All of a sudden, He gets this look on his face, a mix of compassion, and desolation. And as he leaves, (with my computer) he mumbles something about old blokes who are significantly challenged without the benefit of any real semblance of intelligence. Being able to just get by, on a daily basis, with only this thin veneer of ability, that rarely fools anyone for very long ?

Seriously, after he left I wondered if he is right ? Perhaps I do have a much lower IQ ? Below the national average for my age group ?
I certainly have no illusion about my limitations. In the late nineteen fifties on joining the military, they put as all through a battery of academic tests. Joining the police, we had a few too, but they were very particular about spelling, dictation to be exact, a potential recruit was permitted very few errors ? Therefore I do wonder if its all age related ?

Yet I've heard and seen people of both sexes ten, fifteen years my senior, speak most eloquently and insightfully on radio and TV. Perhaps then, it does boil down to IQ after all ?

Dear o sung wu,

I don 't for one moment believe on the reliance on negative
stereotypes about older people.
They don't take into account individual differences and
instead treat all old people as though age were their
single most important characteristic.

For example, it's widely believed that the old are not
such productive workers as the young. When actually they
have better job-attendance and productivity records.

Then we're told that many of them are infirm (more than
80 per cent of the population over sixty-five are
fully capable of getting around on their own. We're told that
a high proportion of the aged are senile, whereas less than
10 per cent of the aged under seventy-five display
symptoms of senility. We're told that many of the elderly
are confined to nursing homes or old-age homes. Only
4 per cent of those over sixty-five are in this situation.

In addition, there are a variety of beliefs about the
typical personalities of the elderly - that they are cranky,
forgetful, sexless, highly conservative, and the like -
beliefs that either ignore the vast differences among
people, after all individuals grow more different, not more
similar as they age, or have no basis in fact whatsoever.

No matter how inaccurate the public stereotypes of the
elderly may be, it provides an implicit justification for
excluding them from significant roles in the economy,
family, and other areas of society.

Ageism against the elderly is often subtle, but it is
pervasive. Take a simple example, television commercials.
These adds almost always present youthful, attractive,
active people. When older characters appear, they are
likely to have health problems and to be promoting
health related devices, or funeral plans. Advertising,
like so many aspects of the media, often reflects the
"fountain of youth" theme that courses through a
culture in which people are encouraged to believe that
creams, soaps, lotions, colourings, vitamins, diet
pills, exercise machines, sports cars, or whatever,
will make them look like a young adult forever.

Your problem o sung wu is that you are just a slack old bugger, nothing to do with IQ, or age.

What you should have done was spend 10 years playing fool video games. If you had you would have finally got bored with that, & pulled the thing apart, to hot it up.

This leads to $$$ spent by parents fixing the thing, & some knowledge of the innards of the things by kids. Oh the other thing you could do is be interested in the things.

When it comes to computers I am like my wife or daughters with cars. I just want the damn thing to go. I am not the least bit interested in mucking with them, or TVs or vacuum cleaners for that matter. As my mother used to say, there is none so slow [to learn], as one who doesn't want to know.

The worst thing about age I find, apart from not being able to remember names, is that you have the time to step back & see what a bloody awful job most of our public servants, & politicians are doing.

I do hope you have a computer tech as good as mine, although at that price I doubt it. Mine can fix anything, in no time, usually has the bit it needs, [if it does] in the car, has never had to format the thing to eliminate a virus, & has never charged more than $80, including traveling time.

As my old mate used to say, it's no good getting old, if you don't get lucky.

Just ignore young smart-arses when they roll their eyes at anyone older! Mostly they don't know all that much themselves. About 15 years ago I subcontracted a nice young IT expert to set up and manage the GIS (computer mapping) component of a project - GIS was relatively new then. He worked on an hourly basis as needed, which was mostly when we couldn't make the program work. After watching him regularly sit at the computer cursing it, I tentatively asked what was the problem: 'I never know what's wrong with it! (though in the end he always worked it out). The project team took up his regular slogan 'If only I had a dollar for every time it does that' - ie something you don't understand. I've never been fazed by IT guys since. The test for a really good IT person is whether they are honest enough to say that half the time they don't have a clue themselves and have to work by trial and error.

On the other hand, I have a remarkable role model for growing older with technology - a 98 year old friend who is currently writing her 4th book. I helped edit an earlier one (when she was only 93) - she had typed it on the computer and we were testing layout options to discuss with the printers. As I played with fonts and headings, she leant over and corrected me - I said (defensively), 'I know how to do that!', to which she replied led 'Ahh but I'm just pointing out the short-cut I learnt in the advanced Word course last week.'

o sung wo those words could be said about me, I have those troubles with computers.
But we must face another point of view, we came to them late.
Kids can do things we never will.
BUT as a full call ham radio operator I can still help the young in that, my subject.
As we age we do not need to think as you do, I think using the thing is proof we are not dead yet.
I too think some experts are full of it! taking weak shots to justifie a self image thing that many would not like.
One point however, as I age the need to commit to learning is a must or I fail every time

IQ doesn't come into it, o sung wu.

In this example at least, you managed to out-bluff yourself.

Paying $215 to fix a "battered ol' computer" simply says that you have not made yourself aware of the cost of a replacement machine. Which has stuff-all to do with understanding computers, and everything to do with being able to read a Dick Smith or similar catalogue.

For example, this week in our neighbourhood, Aldi has a machine on sale for five hundred bucks that will last you another five years at least.

http://www.aldi.com.au/au/html/offers/2827_26141.htm

You don't need to know much about machines to realize that a) a 3.3Ghz processor is pretty quick, and b) two terabytes is a shedload of disk space. The rest of the jargon you can pretty much take for granted as saying "reasonably state of the art".

After you get along to Aldi for your new computer, o sung wu, you might consider poping into somewhere like Officeworks for the largest capacity 'USB pocket drive' you wish to afford... use this as off-line storage for all your data-ery stuff.

Two insightful quotes worth sharing:

"Don't back-up anything you're prepared to lose" and "You always have one less back-up than you need."

Buy a Mac?

What's old? is 50 old? Computers are easy and I was never formally trained to use one, yet I can now program in 5 different languages and have written several successful programs. Does that make me smart? I don't think I am, I usually score low in IQ tests, which are a crockaboloney anyway. I'm so thick sometimes I don't even know what a good IQ score is, mines around room temperature I think? However, I know guys that sprout how brainy they are but can't even cook scrambled eggs. The fools burn water and they're much younger than me :~)

"""
Buy a Mac?
"""

For 500 bucks? Now that's clever :~)

That'd probably ensure you get really good service, WmTrevor.

>>...you might consider poping into somewhere like Officeworks<<

Although it might also be considered an indulgence...

I've never paid more than $400 for a Mac, we have four here, two iMacs, a Macbook pro and an iPad, the trick is to find a company that uses them then get dibs on the obsolete models when they update. I've had three Macs over the last 15 years, none have ever broken down, the only reason I've had to upgrade is due to the changes in processors and their lack of compatiblity with the most recent versions of OSX.

Good evening to...LEXI, BELLY, HASBEEN, PERICLES, COSSOMBY, WM TREVOR,
JARDINE K JARDINE, RAW MUSTARD, and JAY of MELBOURNE.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to this Topic, I really appreciate it. Yeah HASBEEN you're right, I suppose I am a 'slack old bugger' ? And LEXI I've noticed when entering a shop, nobody seems all that keen to serve me either - there again maybe it says more about me, than being old ? Though these days, I now have to avail myself to a 'pusher'. Still it permits me to remain ambulatory.

I had no idea BELLY ol' mate that you're well into Amateur Ham Radio ? Golly I've always had enough trouble marshalling my thoughts sufficiently for the correct use of our official car transceivers.

There's no doubt about it I'm amongst some phenomenal talent on this particular Topic with the likes of those good folk above. I suspect some of you may well be right, I'm just too jolly lazy to learn, that's also my wife's considered opinion too.

My grandchildren have even offered to give me some instruction on the Computer, which saw me declining their kind offer very quickly ! How would it be, this beautiful little girl running to her Grandma with this perturbed look on her dear little face and solemnly declaring how 'thick' her Grandpa is ? Thank you, but no thanks - Ignorance is bliss, for all concerned I believe.

Anyway, just to make sure there's nothing else is awry, I've been referred to the Neuropsychology Clinic, at the Repatriation Hospital, to undergo tests in order to exclude that other awful worry; that of Dementia, and Azheimer's. Seems my GP has a minor concern, thus he just wants to ensure it's nothing ? Me to, I might add ?

Several of you have mentioned 'Apple' as another computer option. Thank you for your suggestion, but I'm having enough trouble with the basics of this system, without embarking upon an entirely different network altogether.

Good folks, and thank you all.

Nah o sung, can't be Alzheimer's, my careful study & consideration of the subject is that us old boys suffer from something entirely different.

What we experience is old timers disease. The symptoms are a refusal to be bothered with things we find boring, our instant recognition of BS when expounded by others, & an unfailing ability to see the truth in all matters.

This can frustrate said BS expounders, & for some strange reason, annoy them, when we bestow upon them the benefit of our wisdom.

You must not let this deter you from telling them that they are wrong, & we are right, in all things. Have you tried dancing with that walker thing, & can you still drive into the mountains & commune with nature, over the exhaust noise that is?

o sung wu,
what a coincidence, only today I spoke with some people about IQ. I definitely experience an increasingly diminishing intelligence in our educated people as I get older.

G'day HASBEEN...

I belief you're right. A friend of ours, her family member has early onset Alzheimer's, and I don't think I exhibit any of those symptoms, I hope not anyway. If anything, I reckon I've got just a touch of ol' fella's syndrome, a handy little ploy when one doesn't wish to do something. Alternatively, forgets a birthday or an anniversary or two ? A rather novel way of managing to extract oneself from doing something, you don't wish to do ? All quite important 'kit' or tools for us ol' fella's in order to manoeuvre ourselves to a preferred position that's far more strategic or tactically advantageous ?

That's what it's all about I think, 'think' being the operative word. A process many of our younger generation fail to appreciate. That's something that age does bring with it I think - that of wisdom ? I don't necessarily believe you have to be all that smart to possess wisdom ? Do you think HASBEEN ? I have, and I'm sure you have too, come across many quite intelligent people in our time. Some, though clever don't seem to have a great deal of common sense, and with it devoid of any real wisdom ?

I suppose you and I, we could wax lyrical all night, each of us trying to delineate between 'common sense' and 'wisdom', together with, what generation has it, conversely which generation hasn't ? Of course it's resoundingly 'ours' HASBEEN, we've earned our stripes, by dint, we're still alive, and still contributing in our own modest way !

Good night ol' friend - and keep your powder dry !

o sung wo yes indeed,I made a mate, out of a highway patrol bloke.
Can not name him but he was involvedin the Virgina Morse murder,he had trouble after that.
Not an easy task he had trouble with the radio in his car,used to drop by at my works so I could help.
We older folk often feel we may not be as sharp as we once had been .
Not worth worrying about.
If it comes just think.
We will meet new friends every day.

<< When it comes to computers I am like my wife or daughters with cars. I just want the damn thing to go. I am not the least bit interested in mucking with them… >>

Haaaahahahaaa.

Yes indeed Haz. Wow, do I ever get frustrated and enraged when the damn ‘puter chucks a wobbly… which is sooo damn often it is a wonder my head hasn’t exploded by now!!

O sung wu, I long ago came to realise that IQ is a highly dodgy concept. Most of us just have different aptitudes in different areas. We follow our interests and become ‘smart’ in those fields, while letting other things go in which other people are ‘smart’ and will look at you as though you’re a real dummy!

Old-timer’s disease? Doesn’t sound like a disease at all. Sounds like a sort of nirvana! Old blokes like Hazza have just refined their attention to interesting stuff and kept clear of the BS, as far as is possible. Sheesh I wish I could do that. I’m training hard. But I guess it’ll take another couple of decades to achieve Hasbeen’s masterful level!!

O Sung,
I find I have the same issue when people are explaining things to me, it goes in one ear and out the other and at Uni I was one of those guys who'd always fall asleep in lectures,but I've always been that way.I'm not a good student, I can only learn by doing so to understand what a computer tech is saying I'd have to have sat there with with a schematic or a manual and taken a computer apart myself.
I think a lot of men are that way, the other day I gave an otherwise competent mate of mine guidance over the phone on how to screed a bathroom floor..the result was not spectacular and he only got half of it done. However when we did the other half together yesterday morning he understood immediately and I'm sure next time he has to do one it'll be spot on.

G'day...BELLY, JAY OF MELBOURNE, INDIVIDUAL, and LUDWICK -

Life's funny for sure BELLY, at each turn we can meet someone new, and often learn, if we have the time, lack of pride, and humility to listen to them.

INDIVIDUAL my friend, I have this intense dislike for most academics, or educated people, as you so subtly describe them. I'm not referring to those involved in the sciences, medicine, aero space, and many other practical disciplines.

Rather those who, purely by dint of their academic qualifications, tell us all how we must live. The theoreticians, sociologists, criminologists, some psychologists and others that sit snugly within this demographic.

It's this group alone, that when the speak publicly, cause so much trouble, dislocation of normal services, motivating some witless politician to make some grand change, purely on the untested opinion of some academic !

EG - there's a very well known criminologist, formally from here (NSW), thankfully now in a Qld University - who happens to have more degrees after his name than the Masonic Lodge ! This bloke is so out of touch with reality, both with policing and juvenile and adult corrections, he's a standing joke, with those working in the two industries. Yet, there are many politicians who worship him...? God help us.

I can really identify with you and your friend JAY of MELBOURNE. I'm the same. Never been good following written instructions (particularly those written in several languages, like instructions that accompany some appliances & mobile equipment) ? Though, when shown in person, the 'penny will usually drop'.

Thank you all for your contributions.

And good afternoon to you...LUDWIG -

Yes I tend to agree with you, apropos IQ's, in toto ? Another measurement contrived by some long forgotten academic many years ago.

I read somewhere the IQ has been replaced by something apparently more important ? A 'Maturity Quotient' or similar. It would seem many of these social scientists have agreed it's more important that a person is thoroughly mature, both in behaviour and outlook ? Than straight out intelligent ? Possessing neither virtues myself, I must agree it seems far more logical to me ?

It's my humble belief, the likes of BELLY and HASBEEN and LEXI - all thoroughly mature, responsible people, would have infinitely more skill, buckets of life experience, and a greater appreciation and understanding, of all that currently irks or exasperates many of the people who currently live in our fair country ?

You'd agree, one needs long term life experience in order to grasp, recognize, and ultimately fix most of the social problems that are currently obsessing this country of ours. You want evidence ?

OK, just look at some of their individual 'threads', the way they firstly determine the problem, and then, solve it ! There's no 'mealy mouth language', no BS, and no political correctness ? If you want a gentle, compassionate resolution, couched in a very perceptive, shrewd mind, see LEXI.

Or someone, who's 'knocked about' with tough, hard working men, who value ever single buck they earn by the sweat of their brow, who've probably seen and heard it all, along the byways and hwy's of NSW, in the extreme heat and cold ? See BELLY.

Still not satisfied ? Then what about a bloke who took on the toughest gig aviation has to offer, AND at the same time served his country as a Naval Aviator, pulled the pin, took up farming through drought and 'flooding rain' ? If that doesn't teach a person much in life, than nothing will - Just ask HASBEEN ! He's been there, and done that !

Thanks a bunch for your thread LUDWIG.

At some stage while in the navy, I went through the army methods of instruction course. On of the subjects was a breakdown on the effectiveness of different methods of learning. For an average person the percentages of information retained were;

For what we saw 15%.

For what was explained 25%.

For what we did 60%

This came down to how much we absorb, & it was eyes 15%, ears 25%, fingers 60%.

I have applied this for 50 years to people I was training, with a lot of success, but more importantly I have applied it to myself, with even greater success.

When I read or am told about, or how to do something I am interested in, I make a point of finding the thing, & doing the task as soon as possible. Once you've done it, just like riding a bike, it's there for life.

My daughters could never remember which way to turn a nut to tighten or loosen it. When I built some new gates, I put them to work bolting the hinges to the gates & the posts. The girl who had rung me a couple of times to ask how to get the oil filler cap off her engine can now assemble flat pack furniture, with that little allen key, with complete confidence. She doesn't have to think about it.

Of course if there was a good looking bloke near by, she just might find an excuse to need help, but it would not be because she could not tighten those nut things.

I'll bet you still know haw to handle a nut [case] o sung.

G'day HASBEEN...

I thought you wise, sadly I was mistaken ? What your dear daughter has exhibited, was that which is 'coined' as feminine 'wiles' - those little tricks, ruses, subterfuges, even cunning guile they all learn at an early age in order to contrive methods to control us poor hapless males, with their feminine charm !

When targeted, we're basically helpless. We stand there with a silly expression on our faces while they silently weave their invisible feminine web around us, and there's not a jolly thing we can do about it ! Nothing, nought ! Come on HASBEEN, if I can remember, so can you ol' friend ?

those involved in the sciences, medicine, aero space, and many other practical disciplines.
o sung wu,
that's exactly my point. I think it is actually an insult to call such people academics, they are professionals.
They are of benefit to society whereas the majority of those who call themselves academics are a burden.

Good evening to you INDIVIDUAL...

Of course you absolutely correct, it is very insulting indeed. Accordingly I offer my profound apology to all of those I've offended.

In my mind's eye, I picture an academic ensconced in this little, musty smelling, office space, staring out into nothing, while musing away as to why he never took up bricklaying, carpentry, plumber, anything rather than sitting on his backside staring into nothing.

Oh well, as he thinks away to himself, "I might just write another manual telling coppers how to catch crooks, anything to beat this damn boredom and monotony" ?

And that's about the size of it INDIVIDUAL !

Goodnight my friend and thank you.

O Sung,
If you're bored why not do a computer course online then get your certificate in workplace training and run basic computer classes for seniors? At one point my overqualified but unmotivated brother was earning about $80 an hour for two half days a week teaching oldies how to use email, facebook, net banking and so on.

Hi there JAY of MELBOURNE...

What a splendid idea of yours, there's no doubt, 'IT' is the way of the future in terms of communication and technology ? It would indeed prove rather comical, an 'oldie' teaching oldie's, basic Computer operations ?

Actually JAY of MELBOURNE, I'm over 70 years old myself, so it might be a case of the blind leading the blind, do you think ? It would certainly be rather amusing I must agree. Luckily, I'm not a person who ever gets bored, as I'm a voracious reader, and when not reading, 'she who must be obeyed' always has something for me to do or fix ?

Of course when the grandchildren come calling the house becomes a veritable circus with the latest little one running around pulling all my books from their respective bookcases. She's troubled when most books are denuded of pictures, she'll learn, and we all love and encourage her enquiring mind dearly.

Thank your very much for your contribution, I really appreciate it.

OSW, I went to uni, my bride went to uni, my daughter is doing her masters, and my boys are apprentices, so my lot can complete tasks, or show some aptitude, but intelligence proportion does not come into it. As long as you are above the mid 90’s you could be a brilliant achiever if you are motivated. Not every scientific or social breakthrough came from those with a 120 or better IQ.

I have always been in corporate, so every time I have applied for a new job or apply for another position I get tested. In the early days it was the standard IQ tests but as HR evolved the psychometrics became personality rather than IQ based….they wanted to know how I think, rather than can I think.

The overview of the exercise is to identify leaders, doers, and followers rather than intelligence quotient. They look for personality traits such as diligence, ability to take direction, ability to take initiative, ability to multi task, ability to withstand criticism, your performance under pressure, time rationality vs outcomes. They are looking for the square peg for the square hole.

You may be a nurturer who is important to the team’s performance but you are unable to accept the responsibility of directing, so you are a pleb. You may be an outcome driven individual that can be ruthless in your pursuit of the outcome, so you are a line or middle manager.

Or you may be a shifty and conniving outcome over everything driven individual with a ruthless self survival streak, you become the prime director of activities, a boss.
TBC

They use vocations as guide lines to describe your place in the world. They report that you could be a teacher or office manager and that 30% of the population fall into this category. Or that you could work with machinery or cut hair and 50% fall into this category. OSW, my last test for the German company I work for found I fitted into a 7% slither of the pie chart and I didn’t get the position I applied for.

OSW my fair copper, I read what you say; I consider what I read from you…your smart sport. Everything is about application. Not long before my old man died, he commenting that Aussie teens were getting fatter and decried the mothers who said it was in the genes, or big boned, or fluid retention. His comment was “there were no fat people in Belsen, a fair comment I thought…it’s about application.

Interesting sonofG, did you learn to see what they were aiming for with each question, & give them the answer they were looking for, with all those tests?

When I went into the Navy as a trainee pilot, we had days of mostly aptitude tests. We were going to have 3 months to get to the end of second year uni aeronautical engineering, with the pass mark 80%, so our math & physics had to be up there. There was some attitude stuff, as we would become officers.

I was one of only 2 selected in NSW from 152 applications, so the selection process was tough. Not good enough however, as only 30% of trainees got through training, & got their wings.

To try to cut this expensive wastage they put us through a barrage of tests while training, using us & our results to try to qualify a range of new tests, & the existing ones.

When you've done enough of these things, you can read the questions & the psychologists like a book. I had an interesting experience when I was promoted to state manager of a company. I found my application, for a technical service manager position, & assessment in the managers files.

I was always very competent technically, but being assessed as among the top 2% of university graduates in physics & engineering, & the top 4% of the adult male population in problem solving, did my ego no harm at all. [Sorry ladies, that's what it said. You weren't expected to be able to solve problems in the early 60s]

However it was the assessment of thoroughly honest, extremely cooperative, & very helpful that told I had used those navy tests to learn how to do tests very well.

The only problem then was to figure out what the tester wanted the applicant to be. I'm sure being dumb & dishonest could be great & desirable attributes in some companies. This would obviously be the case with a company selling wind generators for example.

G'day to you SONOFGLOIN & HASBEEN...

I see I'm in eminent company with you two ! Regrettably, I never managed to achieve any noteworthy academic attainment, other than managing 6 passes out of 7 subjects in the NSW Leaving Certificate in 1957. Which wasn't all that bad in the fifties ? Of course my dear parents could never afford Uni, in any case we only had the two in Sydney in those days, consequently, standards were inordinately high and competitive.

I did six years in the ARA, again a case of starting at the bottom, and simply staying there. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed military life, and learned so much terrific stuff, both formerly and unpretentiously ?

Active service overseas, can't say I enjoyed it but, again I learned an enormous amount about myself, as well as those around me. The most important lesson (perhaps) for me at least, I learned unequivocally, there was absolutely NO GOD ! However could there be, with what I and others had witnessed.

The police force, ah well I'd need a week to try to encapsulate my thoughts and emotions about them ? Attained Detective Sergeant rank and was OIC of my own squad. Big deal. I think not ? You and HASBEEN, SONOFGLOIN, by the sound of it, both of you were the 'Big Deals' !

Yup that's me I'm afraid SONOFGLOIN ? I will freely confess, I was essentially a 'follower', unlike you HASBEEN, a former Commissioned Naval Officer.

In my own defence, I was selected 'case officer' for a few well known crimes, as well as manifestly assisting with the investigation of many of the more famous crimes. But to be quite honest with you, my entire working life since school, could best be described as 'unremarkable' ?

Sure, there are still a scattering of crooks, boofheads, and other mugs, still seeking to render a thoroughly good kicking to my over 70 years frame, well good luck to em' is all I can say.

o sung I think I would have liked being a detective. I don't like anyone who rips off other people, & the who done it bit would have been as real challenge, & I mean a real challenge. We hear far too many who describe getting out of bed & walking to the bus stop as a challenge.

I've known enough cops to understand that knowing "who done it" & being able to prove it in court are 2 entirely different things, but I reckon it would have been hard to get bored in that job.

I guess I'm really a nerd, but I for me finding new & better ways of making things, & better ways of working plastics in industrial applications, exciting. I also find it interesting & amusing, that after hundreds of weight saving applications in modern cars, they are much heavier than when we started.

I would never have changed that work If the US parent company had not heard about my weekend motor racing. When they told me I would have to stop that, as apparently I was too valuable to turn up dead one Monday, I quit on the spot. I'm not sorry, as it led me into an interesting life on the fringe of modern society.

Yep, a great life, but I'd need a couple of hundred more years to do all the things I'd like to try. I've probably got a lot of mats in that too.

Hi there HASBEEN...

Yes it did have it's moments for sure. You and you're mates are quite correct, knowing someone is guilty, and being able to prove it, prove it in a court of law, is an entirely different matter. With all the rules of evidence, and other safeguards in place, to ensure the accused person has a fair trial ? And I'm sure you'd agree, there'd be nothing worse than an innocent man, denied his liberty through an unsafe verdict, horrifying really !

Though, in the past I'd probably wouldn't have agreed with you, but our justice system is probably the best in the world,

Listening to you describing some of your processes using plastics, in fact engineering in it's entirety, amazes me. Sure I'm like most blokes, I can swing a hammer, use a screwdriver, tap away with a mallet and chisel, albeit crudely very crudely indeed, with absolutely no finesse, and with an end product barely able to be described as functional ?

I dunno HASBEEN, I reckon I'd swap my last vocational choice with your,s or SONOFGLOIN'S ?

A bloke I'd arrested, as we were conveying him back to the station , began berating me by asserting I'd never had a real job, just a sponger, a parasite on the community ? He didn't quite see the amusing side as he was locked in the 'slot', but he was right ! He further stated '...all coppers are too lazy to work; haven't got the brains to get a real job; and too lazy to steal...' ?

I've never had a REAL job in my entire life ? Everything I did was merely 'reactive' never 'proactive'. Where you and SONOFGLOIN have done, made, caused, occasioned, many things. You can both see the fruit(s) of your labour. You can see where you've been. Like mowing the lawn, you can see where you've guided the mower. Do you follow me HASBEEN ?

This is all getting a bit deep for me ? Speak with you again soon, HASBEEN.

While I have not been active in the thread of late it has never left my mind.
Ageing when living by choice alone rarely stops being a concern.
And most of us think of not being able to use our brains as well in those last years.
We however can ignore our fears if we are active.
An observer of life and people I often see folk who are old before their time.
We all do, but may not understand we are observing them.
In my circle of friends is one who, with out a reason, wrote a full plan for his funeral including sound track, at age 50!
If asked, I would advise never,after making financial arrangements, think about it.
Like o sung wo, I have proud memory's of working days, but think mostly of today.

Hasbeen>> Interesting sonofG, did you learn to see what they were aiming for with each question, & give them the answer they were looking for, with all those tests?<<

Hasbeen as with all the psychometric tests I have taken there are well over a hundred questions. They ask the same questions couched in different format scenarios over and over again so it is difficult to consistently stay with a pre determined theme. From what I have experienced it is difficult to not exhibit your true nature.

OSW, I am a hydrologist by vocation and spent my first ten years working for mining concerns before moving into management. Do you recall my comments on pommy cops and prison officers in Western Australia? That came from my time in the mines over there in the 1980’s. As I said IQ does not count as long as yours is over 95. All is about application and persistence. Many with a lower IQ than mine have dictated my future.