The Forum > General Discussion > Are Conservatives uncaring?
Are Conservatives uncaring?
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Posted by Whatsit2ya, Sunday, 17 March 2013 11:37:22 AM
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Whatsit2ya
whose policies have led to over 1000 people being drowned in leaking boats? Lefites are experts at the crocodile tears. Only the gullible fall for them. Posted by runner, Sunday, 17 March 2013 5:19:47 PM
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Well said whatsit2ya.
Runner, can you see yourself in the writer's words? What on earth will you have to whine about when the Libs get in ? All your worries will be over... Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 17 March 2013 5:34:59 PM
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Suseonline,
can u see yourself in my words? Posted by runner, Sunday, 17 March 2013 5:56:33 PM
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Whatsit....,
Like 579, your opinions are not woth commenting on Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 17 March 2013 6:27:29 PM
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Runner, actually...no.
I don't vote for Labor or Liberals. Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 17 March 2013 6:50:43 PM
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Suseonline
I don't vote for Labor or Liberals. I am sure you are smart enought to know that your preferences go to either. On the measure you use I don't vote Liberal or Labour either. Posted by runner, Sunday, 17 March 2013 7:03:46 PM
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Agent provocateur. Don't feed the troll!
Posted by RawMustard, Sunday, 17 March 2013 7:12:06 PM
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Whatsit2ya,
Comparing the U.S. Republicans with the Aus Liberals is like comparing Saddam Hussein with Pope John Paul II; you have got to be kidding. Nothing to fear? Nothing like a Labor government which has put Aus in debt to the tune of $60 Billion in a mere 5 years (after starting their lacklustre reign with a healthy surplus)? Yeah, yeah, GFC, we all know the standard excuses. And now ripping any chance of a reasonable existence from thousands of single parents by forcing them onto NewStart - ever so caring, hey? And attacking the 457 visa system that has been keeping our Health Services afloat. Brilliant thinking! What next from these goons, 15% GST and 60% tax for companies and high income earners, and compulsory 20% superannuation? They're so hungry to 'spread the wealth', anything is possible. The problem with Labor is they are so fervent about 'what they stand for' that they do everything but kill and butcher the goose which provides the source and the means for their extravagant largesse - the businesses and investment which supply the jobs for all those poor, so very hard done by taxpayers. Are education or health services any better now? Don't think so, but they keep saying 'watch this space'. So many promises, and what do we get? The carbon tax which was 'never going to be'. Ring any bells? Not to worry. We get the government we deserve, so, as long as the Aus populace is fooled we will have fools in government. Just look what 'spreading the wealth' has done for Cyprus - their welfare bill is 60% of their total GDP; now that is welfare state run rampant. Is this what you want to see in Aus? If so, vote Labor, and the best of 'British' to you. Posted by Saltpetre, Sunday, 17 March 2013 8:02:34 PM
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"""
Just look what 'spreading the wealth' has done for Cyprus - their welfare bill is 60% of their total GDP """ No, they're broke and are now stealing money out of peoples bank accounts. Coming to a country near you, prepare accordingly! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21814325 History is enough to prove the OP is full of shite! Posted by RawMustard, Sunday, 17 March 2013 8:38:46 PM
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Runner: will Tony save the thousands of boat people.....I guess he has to ($$$),after all when given the opportunity to talk tough to the Indonesians regarding his turn back the boats policy he lost his voice and his ministers came home with their tails between their legs.....what an embarrassment.
Saltpetre: Im not sure you have the capacity to understand but I'll give it a go. Conservatives are right wing,the Pope and Saddam aren't relevant here. You may want to try again,anyhow you do epitomise the quintessential right winger. Your hysteria leaps off the screen,you inadvertently strengthen my argument. Your knowledge of European countries is shallow, I'm guessing your comments are either a regurgitation of radio shock jocks, or completely fabricated within your own mind. Perhaps your pathetic comments could be validated if those Euro countries weren't governed by so many right wingers. Posted by Whatsit2ya, Sunday, 17 March 2013 8:48:54 PM
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Whatsit2ya,
We can only that you reflect the mentality of a minority albeit a loud one. Posted by individual, Sunday, 17 March 2013 9:05:47 PM
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When I saw the title I'd hoped for a thoughtful piece touching on the different ways that caring and uncaring can be acted out. Maybe some recognition that apart from at the worst extremes people who subscribe to differing political viewpoints still tend to be both capable of great care and great indifference to the lives of others depending on what issues they are concerned about.
Instead I found a sadly one sided rant. In answer to the question, conservatives (using the broad term to differentiate from the left) are as caring as I perceive the left to be. Some care deeply about issues of social justice and the needs of real people, they may define those issues differently to the way someone on the left of politics defines it though. Others like some on the left of politics are utterly self serving and seemingly incapable of real care about anything beyond themselves, I hope they are in the minority on both sides but it's hard to get a good feel for what really drives people. As for the "claims of being "consumed by fear", I think there is some evidence that conservatives are more cautious than so called progressives but that's different to being consumed by fear. Some are too reluctant to embrace change as a counterpoint to the lack of caution shown by some on the left. Many on the left are more than willing to trade on fear when it suits them, the issue in judging both sides is if we believe their concerns are legitimate or poorly founded. I'm guessing trying to promote fear of an Abbott lead government will be a big factor in the Lefts campaigning this year. I'd suggest that the majority of so called conservatives are no less caring than the majority of so called progressives. Both will have their blind spots and their spots of real compassion and care. R0bert Posted by R0bert, Sunday, 17 March 2013 9:33:49 PM
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I'm with you there, RObert. The title - and the opening paragraph - suggested a desire for a genuine discussion and a debunking of generalisations. Apparently not. That said, it is an opinion forum and the author has put forth an opinion. The title, of course, invites us to disagree. And disagree I do.
Aligning the Liberal Party with the Republicans is, perhaps, an effective argumentative tool: there is much to dislike (in my opinion) about the Republicans, so if the likeness is accepted at face value there must be much to dislike about the Liberals as well. Frankly, there is - but they are very different things. I don't see a Tea Party being formed among our Liberals - if anything, it seems most likely that such a movement would form among the ALP. The ALP feeds on the fears of the 'working man' (which apparently excludes anyone in possession of a university degree), the 'battlers' (which, according to their processes of financial support, seems to exclude anybody in possession of a trade or a university degree) and the rusted-on supporters who fall into the 'excluded' categories but abhor the idea of supporting the Libs. They mobilise these people by identifying enemies: the wealthy, the 'lazy' professionals, the big businesses that employ them, etc. Perhaps the Labor of old was a more caring party, but I don't know that they are any more caring than their opponents now. Which doesn't mean that either is particularly caring at all ... So perhaps conservative parties are uncaring, but the conservatives in society are not. That's my reading of it, anyway. If the Political Compass (http://politicalcompass.org/index) is to be believed, there is no such things as a 'liberal' among the ALP, the LNP, the Democrats, the Republicans, European governments or the major British parties. They are all 'conservative'. How true this is, I'm not sure. I'm often accused of being a raging fascist by my colleagues, but the test suggests that I'm far more liberal - and less authoritarian - than the lot of them. Posted by Otokonoko, Sunday, 17 March 2013 9:57:02 PM
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This is an excellent topic for reading recommendations.
Two books come immediately to mind. Anyone who accepts that right wing politicians ever have the Common Good in mind should read Alex Carey whose works have been collected and published as "Taking the Risk Out of Democracy" and subtitled "Corporate Propaganda versus Freedom and Liberty". The first article in the On Line Opinion email today is written by a researcher at the Centre for Independent Study, a right wing think tank funded largely by the tax deductible contributions of businesses whose leaders fear having to contend with a clear thinking well educated population. Carey's book gives CIS a couple of good serves and claims it was initially set up and assisted by American business interests. The second book would particularly suit runner. It is "Society without God". The book was written by Phil Zuckerman after living and researching life and living conditions in two Scandinavian countries, Denmark and Sweden. The author concluded; "....most people don't believe much in God, don't accept the supernatural claims of religion as literally true, seldom go to church at all, and live their lives in a largely secular culture wherein death is calmly if not stoically accepted as simply a natural phenomenon and the ultimate meaning of life is nothing more or less than what you make of it. The existence of this relatively irreligious society suggests that religious faith - while admittedly widespread - is not natural or innate to the human condition. Nor is religion a necessary ingredient for a healthy, peaceful, prosperous, and deeply good society. Posted by Foyle, Monday, 18 March 2013 9:13:59 AM
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Gee Runner,
Who's governments were they that turned the Middle East into a basket case in the first place and then tried to bomb democracy back into them? Which government (when it wasn't putting dogs on wharfs) fostered racism and intolerance for quick electoral gain on the back of a single leaky boat? Which government historically encourages and uses social division as a strategic political tool? Which government has sold out to the evangelical right in return for financial support? If it's only a body count you are interested in, which government sacrificed the lives of our troops on the altar of political expediency in the hope of getting a Fair Trade Agreement? A bit late for crocodile tears from the Reich Wing. Posted by rache, Monday, 18 March 2013 10:22:17 AM
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Runner: will Tony save the thousands of boat people
Well if he is as successful as John Howard he will, if he is as successful as Rudd/Gillard more diaster is on the way. rache which Governments is the champion of murdering the unborn? Posted by runner, Monday, 18 March 2013 11:11:01 AM
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Don't vote, it only encourages them.
Neither party has a legitimate claim to represent the nation, they're uniformly awful and Katter is simply a synthesis of the worst bits of both sides, maybe it's time we assembled a new party but banned lawyers, farmers and trade union officials from joining? Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Monday, 18 March 2013 3:45:56 PM
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Runner,
I don't think either party has policies of "murdering the unborn' but one has probably dropped bombs on a lot of innocent pregnant women. Posted by rache, Monday, 18 March 2013 6:50:43 PM
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Watsit….neither party is our friend…the majority of us picks the policies that suit our mindset, and so pick a party, generally for life. I see you have picked yours.
If you defend imbeciles by their policies rather than their achievements, or not, in regard to the current crop of Labor non performing clowns, then you exhibit the “follower” mindset. Not an original thought in your head but a mouth able to recite spin in your sleep… No offence but you are a simple soul as exhibited with your choice of a combative pubescently witty name. I will give you a surname to compliment the brilliantly connived Whatsit2ya. Whatsit2ya Nuffin4ya…..That sums it up sport. Suse, you too carry no original thoughts, reality has escaped you as well my dear self indulgent activist. I agree with Jay. Posted by sonofgloin, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 4:57:05 PM
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Dear SOG,
Policy formation is one of the most important functions of government and opposition. Democracy assumes that the governing party best respresents the policy choices of a majority of the people. Most people vote for a party rather than a person. The party is a priority for the voter's political philosophy - and there was a time when the policies of each major party were fairly predictable. The Labor Party had its origins in the labour movement and reflected the values of labour rather than capital. The Liberal Party had its origins elsewhere: they were not those of Labor, but they were equally distinctive. By voting for one party or the other, a voter could be tolerably confident about how the party would respond to changing circumstances if elected to government. Those days are gone. Now it is difficult to see significant differences between policies of the major parties, except on a few issues. It is impossible to predict with any confidence how either party will respond to changing circumstances. This modern fact of political life is a result of new technology which allows political parties to see what policy responses will produce an electoral advantage in key marginal electorates. The mainstream media is a vital part of this process, since the loudest voices in the dominant outlets play a major part in shaping the views which will be expressed in news polls. Founding principles and philosophy have disappeared as significant forces in policy formation it seems. Posted by Lexi, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 7:31:46 PM
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Lexi all you say is pertinent. I sit with corporate decision makers and small business owners whose sole aim is to make profit. The dropping of trade tariffs and the ridiculous Aus dollar value force these folks to source from overseas. Both sides of politics are anti Australian regarding our ability to sustain ourselves.
We no longer have oil refineries, so if the tap is turned off overseas we are back to using medieval forms of energy and no politician has uttered a word. Companies are closing at a faster rate than during the 2007/08 global meltdown, a global meltdown that saw our GDP unchanged, so much for our “crisis”. Corporate registered businesses are closing at a rate of one every 45 minutes, more closures than the GFC could muster for Australia. Politicians have allowed corporations to control our futures and govern the direction of their policies. We are selling our arable lands, our water, our gas and our self sufficiency with neither party having any policies that ensure a future for a self reliant Australia economically. All politicians have stabbed our kids in the back and put the hands of banks into the pockets of generations yet unborn. Left and right are as bad as each other given they take direction from the IMF and UN social reforms that supposedly take from us to “share the globes wealth” with second and third world nations. That does not happen, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the ones in the middle such as the majority of Australians are supplying the resource at the cost of our children’s future. An example of the bastardry of the IMF is the proposed theft of private money from the bank accounts of Cypriots. The greedy Lehman Bros type operations sink the economy and we bail them out with the aid of the governments we vote in to protect us….yet they protect the “money,” the corporations, foreign investors….a pox on both their house, but Labor has to go as they are treasonous criminal and stupid, while the Coalition are merely treasonous criminals. Posted by sonofgloin, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 6:52:34 AM
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History and modern day experiences lends itself to the generalisation that Conservatives, like the American Republicans and the Australian Liberal Party,are frightened people consumed by fear. The 'right' appeals to the scared people in society. People who jump at shadows like the many trolls who post on this forum. They talk big,
full of bravado but its just a childish act,a front to cover their fears. They always want someone else to enforce their ideas ( a stooge like Abbott is a dream result),someone else has to go to war to protect them,someone else has to put away the criminals they fear are out to get them,someone else has to pay for the disadvantaged,someone else should stop people from doing the things they don't agree with.....and who is that someone. Its the government,yes they pretend to despise government intervening in their affairs but when there's something brave to be done they go missing and constantly complain about the government. The right wing Americans believe in guns....for protection (lol), because they're scared. Right wing Australians scare easily,everything has the potential for disaster according to Alan Jones and other whack-job shock jocks. These ridiculous individuals have made a career that spans decades on the perceived destruction of Australian society.