While gazing out my back window, watching my two grand kiddies playing happily in the back yard, their faces lit with an immeasurable joy, seemingly without a care in the world ?

I began to wonder, what sort of legacy we'll be leaving the many generatons yet to come ?

With burgeoning debts and a european liquidity crisis; both here, the US, and the EUC.

The proliferation of global violence perpetrated not only on religious grounds, border disputes, leadership challenges, together with political dislocation and churlishness...?

The apparent slow-down in the jobs market, where many (well qualified) job seekers now, need to leave their home and enduring friendships, and travel immense distances, in order to obtain suitable employment.

Further Education, once relatively accessable, is now much more costly and difficult to gain admission. And with many experts from the Science of Pedagogy now accusing the educationalist, (these architects of the school curriculum), for the 'dumbing down' of many of the vital academic subjects, such as Maths, English and other important Science based subjects. So much so, Australia has now slipped well down the ranking of academic excellence, compared to a number of these hitherto, third world countries, where students there, excell in Maths, the Sciences and similar important academic subjects.

And finally Sport. Once, something to be very much admired, now taking a much higher profile on the world stage, not for exhibiting physical excellence and achievement, rather that of scandals, huge money discrepancies, dishonesty and rorting, fraud, and finally, performance enhancing drugs...?

Indeed ? Just what sort of legacy will we be leaving, for the many generations to come ?

I have both hope and fears old mate.
We lived in different era, not always better or worse but different.
We however had *Mateship* it is not yet clear that the country still has it.
ME the self interested generations is in control now.
But lets have a go at answering you.
My thoughts are set and I think war is coming,but hope I am wrong.
The African continent is about to see many Mali,s and that may bring bigger wars.
Every war brings more terrorist so unfortunately more of that too.
I have no real idea but am glad to have lived in my Australia.
Will watch in interest as the thread develops

Dear o sung wu,

We're got a world that's already overburdened
with social and economic problems.

What we need is social processes that develop and change
over time under the influence of government policies and
popular pressures.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is what I've stated in
the past - Whether we choose to destroy our civilisation
or save it it is a collective decision and one that
hopefully may well be made within our lifetimes.

If we can divert unprecedented energy and resources
to the real
problems that face us, including poverty, disease,
overpopulation, injustice, oppression, and the
devastation of our natural environment. We may yet
leave a worthy legacy for those who come after us.

We can only hope and trust that our ultimate choice will be
to enhance the life on this bright and lovely planet on
which billions of us share our adventure and not destroy
it.

However, I'm not too optimistic. Historically, new ideas
instead of being welcome for the opportunities they open
up for the improvement of the human lot have often been
seen as threats to those who've become comfortable in their
ideologies. Ignorance and vested interests are powerful
forces.

Does anyone seriously care about our "legacy"?
I don't, I'll raise my kids and then sooner or later die, what they and their successors do is of no interest to me.
The Depression/WW2 generation certainly didn't care about securing their their children's future or their protecting their heritage for that matter, they survived their purgatory in the '30's, fought the "good" war and then put their feet up and let the country fall to thieves and demagogues. Succeeding generations though full of big talk ,have until the tentative moves of last five years refused to take any concrete steps to secure the existence of their people and a future for their children. Nostalgia aside it's an undeniable fact that the last generation of Europeans who were capable of mass action in their own interests were the generation born around 1890.

Great topic o sung, so off with the rose coloured glasses, & look at the real story.

The west was built by men on low wages. Men got enough for food & rent on a four room house, & not much else.

Mum stayed home, but had lots of work to do. Mine made our clothes, sheets, pillow slips, curtains, & sewed up the material to recover an old lounge dad repaired & covered. There was no thought of owning a house or car, it was not even on the horizon.

Disability was covered by family, & even into the early 70s unemployment benefits were enough for plain food, if you camped free in a tent somewhere. It is a nice dream we can keep everyone comfortable, but not a possibility.

So sorry Lexi, poverty is something we can all share if we so desire, but can not alleviate for everybody. People will have to do it for themselves, or it won't be done. Trying to keep the so called disadvantaged in a style that a family struggles to achieve, with both adults working 24/7 is just not possible. This is Grease, Spain etc.

You talk about the devastation of our natural environment, but sweety, what else is there to use. If you want everyone housed beautifully, fed well, & given the best medical treatment possible, you ain't seen nothing yet. We are going to have to rape that environment brutally, to get all this out of it, for the entire population.

I'll bet the people of Grease now wish they had not been led into an indolent & useless lifestyle, by a mixture of kindness & political expedience.

Continued.

Continued.
Yes o sung, violence is a real problem. To stop it, we will have to make punishment so severe that the perpetrator will not want a second dose. That or lock them up until they are too damn old to cause any trouble.

Education is where I believe you have it back to front. Part of our problem is too much education, but of lousy quality.

When I was a kid, if you wanted a university education you had to get a scholarship. We'd be better off there again. Today we have even below average kids in bachelor of science courses, & they graduate. Tells you how much use that "Environmental Science" bit of paper really is, & so many others even more useless.

Of course government will hire them, give them an in & out tray, & waste taxpayer time & money stamping bits of paper.

Today we have highrise towers of bureaucrats, who have spent 4 years, mostly at taxpayer expense, getting an arts degree. Most of what they will do required an intermediate certificate education, & no more. Without that degree we could pay them less too. What idiots are we.

That intermediate certificate was all a kid needed to do a trade, including electrical, which needs math. Today, after an extra couple of years, they need a remedial math course to do that. Why this stupidity of 2 extra years for nothing? To hide unemployment, by keeping kids in school, when they'd rather be earning.

Back then they worked 5 days, & studied at night, making them almost worth having. If you needed a trench you used an apprentice with a pick & shovel, not a contractor with a back hoe.

We didn't have over-educated primary school teachers, after a 4 year university course. We sent them off to a teachers college for 2 years, then put them to work. It probably only needs a 6 month course to train one, but it did get them to grow up a little I suppose, there was a lot of wild oates sown at those teachers colleges.

in summary we are leaving a Lance Armstrong legacy. We reward cheats and penalise those trying to be honest. We demonise what is good and say we should not judge but loathe those who worked hard and made this nation such a great place to live. We silence and demonise critics (like Armstrong did) and introduce laws that prevent truth telling. We are dumb enough to think more education will change character when history shows more education has puffed people up rather than led to them to the belief that they know little. We have prophets making millions who said the East Coast of Australia would see little rain again and that Europe would not see snow again. Instead of holding to account the 'educated ' champion more idiotic predictions and claim science backs them.

In essence the legacy our generation leaves is one of personal rites no matter how much damage to society, truth being muzzled because it offends. An atheist woman living in sin in the lodge summarises it well. Oops soon you will be gaoled for saying so. The Scriptures very accurately describes where our legacy will end.

Jay of Melbourne>> I don't, I'll raise my kids and then sooner or later die, what they and their successors do is of no interest to me<<

You’re a hard man Jay.

OSW, primates are born defenseless and need nurturing in a social environment before they reach full potential. Then we cling to the interaction of others to fill our lives. The “group” was intrinsic to our survival.

It began with family groups, then clans or tribes, later states and nations. The wellbeing and future of that grouping of people was a prime consideration of the ruling class. If the people were to be exploited, they will be exploited by their own kind. When foreigners wanted to exploit them the government went to war.

The “Global Village” has dragged away national self preservation…it is almost a PC sin to consider your own first, whether its blood or brothers in arms. Our governments have signed away our rights and our futures to a global concept of humanity where authority has been taken from us as, parents, as a state, and as a nation.

We cannot plan a future for our children because of the rights we signed away. We can’t manufacture for our domestic market because the tariffs that protected us from cheap imports is gone. Nothing else matters except that fact. Bring back protectionism and bring back a future for our children that does not include McDonalds as a major employer of our youth.

o sung wu, "Just what sort of legacy will we be leaving, for the many generations to come?"

You are becoming despondent from taking notice of the sensationalist pap in the media.

Editors believe that good news does not sell an audience. Their accountants believe that cheap pap churned out by hacks is the way, and no-one wants those deep articles anyway.

Try a month without papers, no radio and absolutely no idiot box. Take picnics in the park with friends and trips to see nature and the works of man. Revel in the mundane, take times to breathe and observe with a clear head.

Honestly now, how long is it since you could smell the ocean and were mesmerised by the rhythmic drum of surf?

It is natural for us as we grow older to review our lives and to try to take some meaning from our experiences and life. But concentrating on the negative will unbalance us. It is plain wrong.

Enjoy.

An afterthought, there should be articles pitched towards seniors. Now that many are realising that "Autumn Years" is merely another misleading stereotype dreamed up by advertising executives.

My parents lost their country, their property,
their social status,
and a great deal of their family members
many of whom were sent to Siberia, others were
tortured to death. They came to Australia
after World War II as Displaced Persons - part of the
Baltic Wave of Refugees. They arrived with nothing were forced
to work for two years wherever the government sent them, and
worked hard. Their qualifications were not recognised.
So they ended up with factory jobs. Dad at a rubber factory
(he died of a massive coronary at the age of 52), mum in a
spinning mill. Through their hard work they bought their
own house in the western suburbs of Sydney.

My father was a firm believer in education
because he saw that this was the only way to get ahead in
this country. The war had taught him that material things
you can lose, but what's in your head - stays.

I've worked full time all of my life, and raised a family
while doing so. I've taught my children to be self-reliant.
That is the way I was brought up.

I believe in this country and am proud to call myself an
Australian. I also believe that we live in the best
country in the world - and if we don't like something -
then it's up to us to do something about it - whinging
achieves nothing - and as I tell my children - if you see
something that needs fixing - don't complain - find a
solution.

I shall pass onto my children - what my parents passed onto
me.

Lexi, "They arrived with nothing were forced
to work for two years wherever the government sent them, and
worked hard. .....Through their hard work they bought their
own house in the western suburbs of Sydney"

The years after WW2 were extremely difficult for everyone, not migrants alone. While much has been written on migrants there is very little available on the lot of the existing Australian population. But their lives were impoverished and made more harsh by the loss of so many loved ones and the thousands who returned injured. Australia had little in the way of the infrastructure and amenities, such as transport and communication, or even the Arts, prior to WW2. It was still recovering from the huge losses of WW1 and then was sucked very dry by the WW2 commitments.

Some Aussie seniors might look back with glasses rose-tinged by sentimentality and remorse for lost youth, but they were very hard days indeed and particularly so in the country and on the fringes of country towns.

It was not unusual for children to miss meals and have bread with the thinnest smear of dripping for a meal. Jam was about it for extra, when available. No shoes, one cotton Windcheater for winter and an off-cut of canvas and an ex-military blanket to keep some of the chill at bay in bed. Bones from the butcher were extended with lots of barley for stews.

History is being re-written every day to suit the victim industry, while the truth of the lives of ordinary Australians is dying unrecorded with grandparents.

Dear onthebeach,

Times were hard for everyone - but that wasn't the point that
I was trying to make. This thread is about the sort of
legacy that we want to leave for our children. And the
contribution that as citizens we can make to this country
that my parents passed onto me. And, I, to my children.

Afterall on arrival in this
country my parents joined other migrants in the rebuilding of
Australia's capital structures that were to serve the nation
for many decades to come. The same migrants could have
accomplished a great deal more, if the Australian
authorities had made full use of their skills and knowledge
instead of treating them all as unskilled labour.
Nevertheless, their economic contribution was significant
at a time when Australia needed it most.

Judging on some of the posts maybe we should be concerned about the present.
But no some comments are not representative of the masses .
We mostly want a better life for our offspring.
We often fear things we need not.
And we do have trouble in our modern world, some times caring at all.
Wars are assured but the wish for peace is too.
We if looking back on a lifetime like mine, tend to concentrate on the bad.
But far more good is there if we look for it.

"The same migrants could have
accomplished a great deal more, if the Australian
authorities had made full use of their skills and knowledge
instead of treating them all as unskilled labour"

The implied discrimination by government is precisely what I am objecting to. It is a re-writing of history. As I said, Australia had little in the way of infrastructure and amenities, such as transport and communication, or even the Arts, prior to WW2. It was still recovering from the huge losses of WW1 and then was sucked very dry by the WW2 commitments.

Australia was an impoverished nation, stumbling to recover. Unlike European countries from whence migrants came, it did not have the infrastructure nor the investment $ to rebuild. The infrastructure and the investment were not there in the first place. To top it off, Australia had massive loans to repay for the honor of liberating Europe.

It is one thing to assert that Australian authorities didn't use the skills of migrants well, but quite another to show how it could have been done. Unless of course one believes that the same government authorities were trying to hold Australia back.

It is a modern expectation that a few public servants back then could do the sort of workforce planning and individual job matching that governments remain incapable of doing even now in stable times and with vastly superior communication and computers

To take an example, culture was in a rudimentary stage of development pre-WW2, the war commitment drained the coffers and wiped out most souls. So there is no surprise that an opera conductor fleeing Europe might not get work in Australia. Australia was barely at subsistence level post WW2. An engineer might be available, but to work on what with what and where does the planning and money spring from?

To close, you are also silent about the awful unemployment numbers of the resident population. Few jobs and heaps of people, many of whom had risked their lives overseas as servicemen.

Hi there BELLY and LEXI...

On the obverse there's BELLY, who seems to be of a similar view or opinion to that of my own ? And on the reverse, there's LEXI, always positive even sanguine and up-beat about everything.

LEXI has even provided us with a prescriptive mechanism of what measures are needed to be taken. Initially trying to induce some level of world harmony. As a first approach, commence removing many of the intractable obstacles in the way of solving the World's most gruelling problems.

Do I think you're right LEXI ? Even a bit right perhaps ? If only you were, I for one would be able to stop worrying and enjoy my remaining years in some measure of contentment.

Secure in the knowledge, that mine, and everyone else's children, grandchildren, even great grandchildren, may be able to look forward towards a good life, accomplished with a bit of study and hard work, with hope and an expectation of a superb extended future.

But BELLY ol' mate, somehow it's you who's probably closer to being able to foresee the direction our future is heading. And if you're correct, we'll be seeing more dislocation of our society, more arguements amongst ourselves, economic hardship, impotent governments, corruption within all strata of our federal and state administration(s), a moral decadence and general degeneracy throughout society, and violence, internally and internationally.

It really doesn't augur well, for a bright and sunny future, where all of us can conceivably view our future with a renewed sense of hope.

onthebeach>> It was not unusual for children to miss meals and have bread with the thinnest smear of dripping for a meal.<<

OTB, after I read that, I was sure a kids down the coal mine was next. If we are going hardship for hardship, the aboriginals had it immeasurably worse than both you lots, especially back in those days.

Just wondering why you felt the need to lessen Lexi’s family story? It did read like background to me, not a badge of courage.

Oh, Sung Wu,

Couldn't we not stop moaning and mourning, and take some possible steps?

Say we insist on thinking about how we could bring about a movement that would see improved integrity in public life. That could address a number of the dysfunctional aspects of our society.

This being the election year it is an opportunity to do something.

For instance if you are so inclined you could start a personal petition with GetUp. Who knows where that might lead us.

Watching the final episode of Dirty Business, the strand that explores how mining inadvertently bring about land rights for the Aboriginal people, it seems clear to me that an idea however overwhelmed by the status quo could sometimes blossom with the tide of history.

Let's not fall into the trap of A thousand yesterdays and no tomorrow!

cheers

chek

Sonofgloin,
Hard? If so it's the result of what was bequeathed to me by my Grandparents generation, they passed on no traditions, no oral history, no words of wisdom, I don't even have the same accent, they'd "done their part" in the war and the depression and felt entitled to put their feet up...for good. No defense or explanation of the past was needed because they wanted to move on, this is why we've ended up with history books full of lies and distortions, why our boys are emerging from school as craven, drugged out husks who are not capable of masculine function and why our public institutions,unions and political parties are stacked with fops, gangsters and imbeciles.
I had no concept of posterity until a few years ago and I'm afraid that even though I'm now learned on the implications of such matters that the idea hasn't taken root, I'm really incapable of caring.
Ask "the man on the street" the meaning of the word posterity and you'd get a blank stare or an inarticulate and inaccurate definition.
The people of the Victorian era and further back were concerned with their posterity, the continuation of their genetic line, these days the religious notion of "greater good" is always injected into discussions under the false premise of "posterity". We can't have a discussion about the future in anything but general terms and it will inevitably degenerate into talk of "our" responsiblities as citizens in global village, or some such humbug.
As the doyen of the so called Steampunk Reactionaries "Mencius Moldbug" points out "Living in the past is the only honourable thing we can do!"

Onthebeach>> Australia was an impoverished nation, stumbling to recover. Unlike European countries from whence migrants came<<

Sorry OTB but you do make some unsustainable statements.
About Europe:
Cities destroyed, infrastructure demolished, millions of soldiers dead…..millions of civilians dead.
They started coming here in numbers around 1948, after they finished rebuilding Europe in the three preceding years.

Don’t you like wogs ON THE BEACH?....sorry mate, I couldn’t help myself.

sonofgloin, "after I read that, I was sure a kids down the coal mine was next"

Why say that? They were tough times and well worth some research and reading. There has never been any acknowledgement of the suffering and stoicism of the Australian civilian population during the wars and beyond. Much of it is women's history that should be discovered. Why not? Maybe because the governments then and since would prefer to keep with the military version.

sonofgloin, "Just wondering why you felt the need to lessen Lexi’s family story?"

That is your view. However it did contain an unnecessary and questionable kicker that I quoted and addressed.

This is a discussion forum.

OTB, just asking.

No problem. But what I said was this,

"Australia was an impoverished nation, stumbling to recover. Unlike European countries from whence migrants came, it did not have the infrastructure nor the investment $ to rebuild. The infrastructure and the investment were not there in the first place. To top it off, Australia had massive loans to repay for the honor of liberating Europe."

Which is very different to the meaning that might be conveyed when you quoted selectively thus,

Onthebeach>> Australia was an impoverished nation, stumbling to recover. Unlike European countries from whence migrants came<<

Dear onthebeach,

Re-write history? No. simply quoting historical facts.
All of the Baltic immigrants such as my parents
who came to Australia as indentured labour, had to enter
into a two year contract with the Australian government
which obliged the migrant to work wherever directed.

The contracts were strictly enforced, even if it meant
that families were split up. These two-year contracts were
the Baltic migrants' first major contribution to Australia.
They helped to solve an acute labour shortage in
Australia, especially in outlying areas. All of these people
despite their qualifications were classified as "labourers."

They relieved the shortage of domestic staff in hospitals,
increased the output of building material, helped to build
Australian homes, saved fruit and sugar crops, maintained
railways, worked in sawmills, brick factories, cement
works, on sewerage projects, water conservation, salt and
brown coal mining, clearing land, quarrying, et cetera.

I could go on and on but if you were to do your research -
you would learn about the contributions made.

Did these people take away jobs from "old" Australians?
This accusation is levelled from time to time. However, it
simply is not true. In the case of the 10,000 Lithuanians
who came to Australia many of the newcomers after completion
of their two-year contracts became self-employed in small
business and in all kinds of trades. For example: Mr
Gediminas Rakauskas founded a chain of construction and plant
hire companies in South Australia and the Northern Territory
between 1958 and 1969. He employed an average of 300 tradesmen,
administrators and labourers, and another 150 sub-contractors
at the peak of his career. In just this case, one
Lithuanian migrant had created and sustained 450 jobs in all.

Likewise, Messrs Antanas Ceicys and Vytautas Genys started
ACT Builders Pty Ltd in Canberra in a small way and with very
little capital. By 1961, they were employing nearly 200 workers.

Therefore as a group, the newly arrived Lithuanian migrants
created additional secondary jobs, with their high levels of
demand for goods and services.

And that is a legacy to be proud of and pass on.

I don't think many "real" Ozzies minded the WW11 influx of migrants Lexi, although some unions heavies tried to promote it. I think there was a real feeling of coming together after surviving the war.

I don't think it was tougher for migrants in Oz, than it was for those who stayed at home.

Yes it was tough for all of us. One problem was the shortages you mention. Dad & I moved to Bathurst in January 1950. Mum stayed in Sydney with relatives, as we lived in a dirt floor tin shed, while we built the first 3 rooms of a house. I was 10, & probably not much use, but I needed to start the school year there. It was fun, cooking on a camp fire.

We built a kitchen/lounge/dining room, a bedroom & a bathroom. The rest had a frame & most was roofed, but no cladding to build the outside walls was available. I slept in this open area for 15 months, & my most valued possession was the heavy felt lined canvas horse rug I used as a top blanket.

I would shake the ice off it every morning, & store it in the bathroom, to make sure it was dry next night. Many of our neighbours were living in tin sheds, [some made of flattened kerosene tins] trying to get hold of enough building materials to build as much house as possible.

Actually it was a great time. None of us felt poor, or deprived, & don't forget, dad had come back, so we were winners.

There was no town water, & you couldn't get water tanks. Dad made sure I got the frogs out of the well water bucket when I filled the 44 gallon drum that supplied everything, no pumps available either. He was worried mum wouldn't drink or bath in the water if she knew about the frogs.

You know, thinking back, it wasn't just great, it was a bl00dy marvelous time. I don't think it could have been better, although a eiderdown would have been nice.

I think you may be quoting from this,
http://eprints.utas.edu.au/4286/1/4286.pdf

The paper does not say that Australia took advantage of these migrants. Australia offered work for those who wanted to come. It didn't discriminate against them. That was the deal and the work available.

When infrastructure and business were more developed other work would become available. But that would have been a way off and no promises were made.

Swamped by need and driven by necessity: get the basics up and running. Enormous readjustment from a war economy.

It bears repeating that industry was primitive post-WW2 and what existed had been firmly oriented towards war production. Much industry had been wiped out because Australia's war commitment was mainly farm produce.

Going by the difficulty recovering from modern day natural disasters it is easy to understand the pressures and limitations back then.

Australia's record in resettling displaced people and migrants post WW2 should be lauded as a magnificent gesture and feat.

Hi there HASBEEN...

I'm sorry ol' man but I'll have to ask, that you don't speak of those things that remind me of those fantistic times past, you're starting to make me feel so very melancholic and reflective.

You speak of the old Intermediate Certificate, which was in those days, the academic doorway to so many trades and careers. I completed mine in 1957, and went on to do the 'Leaving'. Why, I haven't the foggist, probably at the behest of my Mum ? It was the Army for me, and they did indicate a good pass in the 'Leaving Certificate' may, I said 'may' grant me a spot in Duntroon. Naturally, I never saw the inside of Duntroon !

You would suggest that you'd need more than an eiderdown to live in Bathurst, most times of the year ? A marvellous town, but oh so cold in winter. In my memory, there was only one place colder (I reckon you'd know it too) Blayney NSW close by to Bathurst, and so so cold in winter ! My old mate BELLY would recall much of what you've shared with us too, I reckon, he's been around quite a bit I believe.

Speaking of 'a Legacy to pass on to our young'...? HASBEEN, are we not doing that now ? As BELLY said earlier it's all about 'mateship', and isn't that the 'glue' that binds our culture together ?

I reckon, all those years ago, when you and your Dad were working on your new house in BATHUST, and living temporally in your modest Hut. If someone turned up on a bitterly cold night, you would always provide them with a cup of tea and a biscuit ? That's 'mateship' I believe. Am I wrong ? I hope not.

Sure people and circumstances change over time, sometimes for the best, occasionally not for the public good. Though, I still believe, most people when hard pressed, are inherently good, when it comes right down to it. I certainly hope so ?

Many comments here about the more difficult times people had not so long ago.
I think a major source of so many poor policy decisions now is the good times most politicians and bureaucrats grew up in.

They presume this post-WWII peaceful, prosperous society is the norm, rather than an historical anomaly.

Since it's the "norm", we don't need to be careful or tentative.
We can throw open the doors to unrestrained global trade and migration, since it will always be good times for everyone.

Not sure what we can do about that.
The indulgent pampered baby mindset is fixed.

Yes Blayney was cold, we played football against them & Millthorpe.

o sung, now I'll really make you jealous.

We moved to Young in 54, where I joined the school cadets. In a small school, with less than 30 boys in 4Th & 5Th years combined, I was made a cadet under officer while in 3Rd year, one of the youngest ever.

In 57, when I did the leaving, I was one of 25 school cadets invited to spend a week at Duntroon during the may school holidays. We were all offered places the next year, provided we had reasonable passes in the leaving certificate.

I got the pass OK, but mum kicked up such a stink, dad would not sign the papers for me to go. Instead I started an engineering scholarship with General Motors. I found living in a boarding house & going to uni, on 6 pounds 10 shillings a week pretty tough.

A year later mum relented, but I joined the navy as a trainee pilot, instead of going to Duntroon. I can't imagine why she thought that was safer than the army. I would like to thank any Ozzies who were paying taxes in the late 50s for spending 11 pounds 8 shillings a day on teaching me to fly.

So mate, while you were slogging it out on the ground, I was cruising around, rather cold, but in considerably greater comfort, above you.

You, Belly, Lexi & I have had the best Oz has had to offer any generation. It would be really nice to think our grand kids could have it any where near as good. When I watch my kids struggling to gain a bit of equity in the country, I am thankful that I can help a little, & should have something to leave them.

Dear Hasbeen,

We all have our stories that need to be passed onto
our children and grandchildren. My intention in
telling the story of my parents and their generation
in this country was simply to explain the times they
lived in and the contribution that they and their community
made in strengthening this country. Most of them have
become Australian citizens, and have proven to be loyal
members of the Australian society. They've fought with
the Australian forces in Korea and Vietnam. Several
Lithuanians have risen to important ranks in the
Australian armed forces. One is a Commander in the
Royal Australian Navy Reserve. Lithuanian sportspeople
have represented Australia at the Olympic Games and in other
important events. Many have since been honored with
Australian and British decorations and most have shown
a great love and attachment to their newfound home.

Anyway, I shan't go on listing their contributions - of
artists, writers, teachers, ballet dancers, musicians,
actors, et cetera. My parents and their kinfolk were a
self-sufficient migrant group. And their legacy passed down
to me was one of "give not take." That is what I have been
trying to instill in my children and one they need to pass onto
theirs.

Dear onthebeach,

One could try and argue that the indentured contract scheme
was equally beneficial to Australia and to the Lithuanian migrants.
One could say, for example, that Australia benefited because
the migrants solved its acute labour shortage in key areas,
while the migrants benefited, too, by being assured of jobs and
having an opprtunity to settle in a new country.

This argument is difficult to sustain. Australia was the last
country to enter the International Refugee Organisation's
resettlement scheme, and political rhetoric aside, "economic
expedience was by far the stronger motivation." The Australian
government contributed only ten pounds ($20) towards each
migrant's fare. The rest of the passage was paid by various
non-Australian welfare agencies.

cont'd ...

Dear onthebeach and Hasbeen,

Just to again set the records straight...

On arrival in Australia, all Baltic migrants were
classified in only two occupations: "labourers", which
denoted all males, and "domestics," which meant all
females. Although the Asutralian employment officials
had full details of each immigrant's skills and
qualifications, no effort was made to match these with
the jobs offering. The Australian authorities enforced
labour contracts strictly.

The first prosecution conducted in Adelaide in June 1949
occurred when a migrant failed to fulfil his indenture
contract. The migrant was sentenced to six months' goal
and was deported after failing the dictation test.
The cruel catch was that a dictation test of 50 words or
more could be given in any language - usually a language
that the accused was unlikely to speak or write.

This incredible "test" was introduced in 1901 and existed in
Australia for more than half a century.

The early conditions of migrant settlement were inadequate.
There was no family accommodation in many places to which
contract workers were sent. Men had to live in tents or tin
huts, in most primitive conditions. Their wives and
children remained in holding camps such as Northam, WA and
Woodside, SA, for long periods and often a long distance
away from their husbands' and fathers' work places.
Marriages suffered, and the psychological scars of forced
separations remained for life.

All this information is on historical record and is available
from any State Library.

Hello there CHEK...

Positive action is always an attractive mechanism, in which to attempt change in the thinking and direction of governments. And in the ideal world it should work. Trouble is, we don't live in an ideal world, alas ?

The trouble as I see it, post an election - Newly elected, (good) people enter a parliament for the first time, brimming over with idealism and good will. Most with a noble intention of pursuing their political career in a principled and egalitarian manner. And in so doing, serve both their electorate and Party, in equal measure, by ensuring their personal conduct is always honourable, and above reproach.

Curiously though, after being there for a while, and having attended a few caucus or party room meetings, and with several briefings with Finance, apropos their salary, allowances and other entitlements, together with pension and retirement benefits added thereto...

A bizarre, very peculiar and almost inaudible metamorphoses enters upon their thinking ? And words, hitherto standards to live by, like ideals, ethics, loyalty, honour, idealism, and more, seems to evaporate and volatilize completely from their memory. Upon the stark realization of what being, AND remaining a politician means - they quite like the government cars, the perks, first class travel overseas, smart lunches etc etc etc ?

CHEK, I'd have no truck with 'getup' or anyone like them, sorry.

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

Certainly, your most affirmative, and propitious words are indeed very welcome and great to hear ! Of course you're absolutely right in what you've said. We humans tend to look at things, people, and events, with a gloomy perspective at times. We've all heard the old analogy, '...the glass is half empty...', rather than the opposite ?

Do you reckon ONTHEBEACH, we humans always tend to look on the side of negativity, rather than trying to be positive ? I reckon I do, more often then I'd like. There again that's what makes us all so very complex I guess ?

Many thanks both of you for your contributions, I do appreciate it.

Lexi,

Why refuse to consider the prevailing conditions at the time? In particular the conditions under which the resident Australian population were living.

History seen through a narrow looking glass is always misleading and 'discrimination' or 'unfairness' is an inevitable conclusion depending on one's mind-set. Stories passed on by family are forever tinged by personal interpretation, often secondhand and anecdotes.

Sure it was tough on Lithuanians who fled and were offered safety and work in Australia in that they did not have the standard of housing and work they had previously. The Australian government had certain work available through pressing need. It was desperately trying to get the economy redirected and up again.

Australians too did not have their previous work and lifestyle. They also were directed to work wherever it was available. Families were split up. On top of that, thousands who left to free Europe, to fight the the rights of others, did not return and those who did were crippled. If you go back to reports at the time, it was impossible to go anywhere without being confronted by the crippled wreck of a returned soldier.

I have a lot of sympathy for Lithuanians at the time and for all people devastated by the ravages of war. But I do not believe there is any evidence to support your belief that Lithuanians were discriminated against or treated unfairly by Australia. Many would wish that their lost loved ones had been so fortunate to escape to safe sanctuary. That they worked in more menial jobs or lived in temporary housing wouldn't matter a jot.

BTW, what the hell is it with the more mundane work anyhow? It is what they were told was available and most would say, so what?

As for temporary housing, the same applied to many Aussies too. But Aussies did not have the advantage of all of those very solid huts and camp facilities left by the Americans.

I'm not sure what you're saying Lexi. Do you think your lot weren't welcome, or were treated differently. Or do you think some here have said something like this.

I believe you were all welcome, & can see nothing wrong in asking migrants for a contribution in labor. It would be a damn good idea to reintroduce a similar scheme with our so called refugees today

I do believe it was a dreadful mistake not to recognise the training & qualifications of most migrants, particularly from advanced countries. I can't know if this was caused by fear in some professions of competition, or that some overseas qualifications were sub standard. A bit of both probably, with a bit too much of the former.

Still most of our post war intake did pretty well, as well as the locals, struggling with a very different world than they or we knew. I certainly hope there is no long lasting unhappiness about the whole deal.

As I mentioned, My mother had to stay in Sydney, while dad & I got some sort of home set up in Bathurst. We were not the only ones living in tin sheds. This was 1950, so you can see, the recovery from the war was not all that swift for any of us.

Actually I think we all did pretty well actually. I'm not sure the kids today will find it any easier to get the same level of security we all ended up achieving.

Dear onthebeach,

I don't want to continue with this discussion
with you because as I stated earlier the main
point that I was trying to make was concerning
the legacy that my parents left me. (I was born
in Australia) and the sort of legacy that I
shall be leaving my children and grandchildren.

If you are really interested in the real facts of
the sort of conditions that existed in Australia
during post-war immigration may I humbly suggest
that you get hold of the following book (just for starters),
from your local regional library:

"Sanctuary? Remembering post-war immigration," by
C. Panich. George Allen & Unwin, Sydney, 1988.

It's only one of many that are now available.

It may help you see what sort of obstacles had to be
overcome before one was allowed to happily call this
country home.

Dear Hasbeen,

I have nothing further to add. I feel that
I've said all that is necessary except to
quote the then Victorian State Minister of
Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, Walter Jona,
who stated at a large gathering of Lithuanians
in Dallas Brooks Hall, Melbourne on 26 December,
1976:

"...But the best thing about you Lithuanians is that
on the street you are indistinguishable from
ordinary Australians...and the worst ... is that there
are not enough of you."

Rapid assimilation was the government order of the day.
It was explicit government policy and in 1947 the
"Assimilation Branch of the Australian Department of
Immigration" was created. Assimilation meant blending
into the Australian monoculture, "with everyone living
in the same way and sharing the same aspirations."

Drop the victim baggage and live like Bronson :)

Dear onthebeach,

I've never been a victim so there's
no "baggage" to drop. And live like
Bronson? No Thanks. he's dead!

I'm very happy with my life, being me,
and living in the "land of milk and honey,"
(which translates as beer and meat pies in
actual fact!).

Cheers.

Good evening to you HASBEEN...

Grrrrrrrrr ! I'd like to think the selection process for Duntroon was fundamentally flawed, and my 'Leaving' results were magnificent ?

I couldn't imagine trying to land an A/C on the deck of a pitching Aircraft Carrier (HMAS Melbourne I think ?)! Navy aviators would need to be the best. It's tough enough to learn to master a mach ll jet fighter, without trying to land it in one piece on the deck of an A/C Carrier ? Am I jealous HASBEEN ? No, just a coward is all ? I'd never ever be able to make it in the Navy. No matter how many dreadful names we all used to call you ! You were all (secretly) admired !

Those fantastic towns around Bathurst and Orange, marvellous places to live and work. You know, I had two stints at the Motor Bike races in Bathurst. The first, a real 'bloodbath'. The second much more tame, 'cause the old TRG attended in large numbers. Most of the coppers in that group, had no necks whatsoever, and were very very big too ! Mention the 'Leaving Certificate to any of those fella's they'd think it was some sort of 'pass out' for the Movies ?

Attended a pretty decent Riot at Bathurst Gaol back in about 1973 0r 74 ? A beautiful, sculptured Town is Bathurst, unfortunately there are some very naughty boys hanging around ?

Yes HASBEEN, you do make me very envious and jealous. For some reason I do tend to reside in the past, not good I know, but that was the mechanism, I needed to employ, when I was still working. Bit silly, I realize. It's just you deal with so much hideous and grotesque stuff at work, you need to be able to switch your mind off, so to speak. And revisiting my earlier, happier past, proved to be a fantistic method for me at least. I'm sure our good friends, BELLY and LEXI, might well agree ?

Thanks HASBEEN for including me in your brief journey back in time

Dear o sung wu,

I'm sorry but I was only born during the tail end of that
era. I love the times I'm currently living in.
I have a great sense of belonging which my parents
passed onto me.

Dear onthebeach,

I forgot to add that if I wanted to
pick a Lithuanian Hollywood "celebrity" to
emulate it wouldn't be Bronson.
It would be Robert Zemeckis. Director. He stated:

"No matter how many obstacles that are thrown in
our path there are ways to accept them and to live
through them. Understand life's mysteries as
mysteries to be lived."

Or put another way - life begins at the end of your
comfort zone.

Good evening to you LEXI...

I'm so sorry. I do tend to speak, often before first checking my facts. An error a gentleman should never make. Is to presume a ladies chronological age, without first establishing the veracity or otherwise. Is patently unforgivable ! Again, I must apologise LEXI.

With kind regards...Sung wu.

Dear o sung wu,

No apology is necessary.
There was no offense and I only wanted to
point out that my life experience was very
different from that of my parents for a variety
of reasons. However their legacy of self-sufficiency
contribution, and positivity, that they passed onto me helped a
great deal.

As I stated in another thread, "No matter how many
obstacles that are thrown in our path there are
ways to accept them and to live through them."

Let’s cut to the chase here. Our legacy will be debt from the developed nations and angst from the under developed nations. That’s it.

Unless of course, social justice and global equity can be achieved through discharging national debt and growing all our economies? Conservative politicians would support this, the rest are blocking it.

o sung I find my past is of much more interest to me, the further I get away from it. It is nice to remember when you had that young firm & responsive body. Hell I even slide the old ute around the bottom paddock occasionally, to remind myself I could once drive fast cars quickly.

I know I shouldn't, but I'll let you into a little secret. Unlike those WW11 pilots, who had to get down on a carrier, with some bloke waving a couple of things like tennis rackets at you to guide you, we had mirrors by my day.

No I don't mean it was done by magic, more brute force.

You see a jet takes a long time to gain revs, much longer than the time to traverse the deck of a little carrier like Melbourne. Thus we could not throttle back until after we had caught an arrestor wire. If we did, we had no chance of getting airborne again should we miss that wire. No revs & no power meant we could not get flying speed back, & were going swimming.

What we did was fly, at over 1/2 throttle into the deck. Something like a gentle controlled crash, rather than a landing. Provided we kept the light in the mirror we SHOULD catch a wire. Only then could we close the throttle, & congratulate ourselves on another great landing. As they say, any landing you walk away from was a good one.

I do admit we may have played the difficulty & danger up a bit, but as young, single, testosterone filled blokes, not necessarily the most handsome, a bit of mystique did no harm at all.

Dear Hasbeen,

It's no wonder that I love "the classics,"
(cars and men). ;-)

o sung wu, "Do you reckon ONTHEBEACH, we humans always tend to look on the side of negativity, rather than trying to be positive?"

Each day we exercise choice and that choice can change our lives from thereon.

I was recently directed to a blog by a gent who travels Oz by himself. He is a humble, common man whose income is the age pension. He would not regard himself as any sort of example, but he does model the possible life for seniors.

Not that seniors should all take to a life on the road, but he obviously takes life as it comes and revels in the ordinary, mundane but enjoyable and meaningful aspects of life. He is filled with new wonder and a sense of discovery, and he enjoys without apparent judgement the company of people he is fortunate enough to meet. He is over seventy years wise and appears fit and healthy too.

I don't know how he deals with the loss of people he loved and cared for. This is something only a close friend could ask. Nor is he preoccupied with the loss of youth and opportunities lost.

I reckon it is his risk taking that is keeping him physically spry and mentally active, and it keeps him busy. The first, risk taking, is the important one. There are risks in putting yourself out there, taking personal responsibility and being accepting and vulnerable as a result.

In relating this story I do not say that everyone is blessed with his choices either. There are those who suffer the cruel restrictions of medical conditions including mental ones such as depression and make do as best they can. They need our understanding and support, bless them.

G'day HASBEEN...

You state that you and your fellow pilots used to play it 'UP' a bit, in order to impress ? Somehow, I don't believe for a moment there was ever a need to 'inflate' the risk involved !

I'm not exactly a complete novice when it comes to understanding the very basics of flying. Suffice to say, there would never be an occasion to 'beat up' any yarn concerning the airmanship 'brilliancy' and panache, of a Naval aviator, HASBEEN !

I spent some time in the hot humid jungles abroad, (during the sixties), 'emplaning' and 'deplaning' in the bloody thousands, from a 9 Sqn. RAAF UH-1B as a 'stick' member! So much so, we were often deployed with the same A/C and crew. I got to know a Flg Off. pretty well, so much so, we spent some time socially chatting, on and off.

To cut a long but happy memory and story short, he (the pilot) well and truly set me completely straight, apropos the REAL pecking order of military pilots ! Carrier based, Navy pilots, were (much to his chagrin) the clear leaders, in his opinion ! He later retired as an Air Commodore, GD Pilot, after a illustrious career all over the world, including GB, USA, Malaya and South Vietnam ! Sadly, I'm not even sure he's still with us ?

I to, during those uncertain times, had to confront my own dangers and demons ? When 'deplaning' in full battle order, one could quite easily catch webbing, or other object, on a protrusion from the A/C ?
Oh yeah, very risky indeed ? Gawd help us ?!

No HASBEEN ol' fella I seriously don't believe you could ever overstate the skill or risk Navy Pilots continually encountered, with every take-off and landing on Carriers.

Again, thanks for the memory HASBEEN.