To date much money has been spent on indigenous health and education programmes, but how effective have they really been?

Has the government implemented failed policies, or are they working well?

www.healthinfonet.ecu.edu.au/health-systems/health. Aboriginal health is ongoing, like any other health issues.

worldwatcher,

Governments pay millions for spin. This address comes from a well regarded person who has seen it all at the sharp end. Got to applaud her good will, honesty and guts,

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/10/24/1226502/593050-alison-anderson-full-speech.pdf

Onthebeach,

That is a fantastic article, and Alison Anderson' dream is so commendable.

However, I hear this as a very well informed lone voice in the wilderness. She is right on every count, but she needs to emphasis this to her own people too.

As she rightly pointed out, many aboriginals live in the city now, yet financial inducements [ the carrot] to attend school are not working well. Maybe penalties [the stick] applied to the parents for non attendance of their children would work much better. I see my following example as just one of a lost generation.

I know of 2 girls aged 8 and 10 whose parents are on welfare. These girls rarely attend school, and the parents have never worked. The example they set is absymal. For them life is one long holiday which we pay for, and the girls roam the streets, sometimes until after midnight shouting 4 letter words and abuse to neighbours.

Education is certainly an answer to many aboriginal problems. Dietary education also needs addressing, as statistics show too many suffer from diabetes.

I would also add that too many children in general 'wag' school with no consequences, and think there is a need to go back to the days when there was a roll call, and school truancy inspectors were effective in ensuring children and parents had a good reason for a child's non attendance.

To radically change the existing problem could be done in one generation. The education adopted children received in [dare I say] white families, or mixed families with one white parent has been no worse than that of all white children, and they have integrated in the workplace well.

They have also risen above being called a black man in a white man's skin by fellow aborigines. I actually heard one man accused of this, and he said it happens all the time.
cont.

indigenous health is certainly a lot better now than before colonisation. Life expectancy has increased however due to alcholol, poor diet, tribal/family feuds and drugs far to many lives are being shortened. Millions spent on education seemed to have failed. Real answers such as severely restricting grog intake are not pc. More money, more education is the mantra however changed attitudes, tough love and no sit down money would be far far more effective. Ask the Africans and they will tell you how destructive our sit down culture is. We just feed it.

cont.
The remote communities who cry out for help display abandoned cars [some newer than the one I drive], trashed houses,trash everywhere, and parents drinking - sometimes alcohol, sometimes just coke or other sugar filled drinks. In other words, a complete lack of pride or will to change it for themselves.

Our previous paternalistic attitude can in some degree be blamed for this, but it leaves plenty of scope to turn around these communities now, with co-operation from both sides, mixed in with appreciation of the real issues to be tackled properly, rather than just throwing money at them.

So education has to be undertaken in every sphere, not just the scholastic one. Pride must be encouraged to replace apathy.

A Marist brother who had previously been a headmster in a private school left the order and volunteered to get a school up and running in a local aboriginal community for a nominal wage, and was assured he would be paid more once he'd proved it was a success - which he did. It was a success for 2 years until he was told he was being replaced by the elder's uneducated wife as headmistress who applied for, and received a far higher wage than my friend. Six months later the school no longer existed, and the previously well kept grounds now look like a third world country shanty town.

WW, the first point I would make is that no matter how much taxpayer’s money went to the first Aussies, let’s say since they got the right to vote in 1962, it all went back into our domestic economy. Whether it was rorted or ended up doing what it was earmarked for, it added to the economy.

I can’t think of a single indigenous culture that profited by Caucasians invasion. The America’s, Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, and Polynesia were not vacant and all those original cultures are at the bottom of the current economic ladder. None of these cultures have prospered, but the Polynesians have fared better than most, and our first Aussie has fared worse than most.

The inability to fit into the consumer society is at its base. It comes down to values. We all know that Aboriginal communities have a track record for destroying the infrastructure that they live in, and the concept of ownership of goods and chattels is not as strong in them as their mercantile white brothers.
TB

I also believe it is a DNA thing. After a thousand generations the concept of time in the indigenous and the concept of time in the Caucasians are different. One way to put it is that the Caucasians brain is on work time, while the first fella here works on holiday time. I think that even without alcohol ravaging all the native communities that the indigenous people would still have ended up at the bottom in the cultural transfer.

About the money and the way it is administered:
When the white guy controlled the funds they were rorted.
When the black guy controlled the funds they were rorted.

The national aboriginal community have many outstanding spokesmen and women who understand that education, support and time will see our mates find the middle ground that brings them community respect and self determination.

God WW, I well remember going to the Empress hotel in Redfern regularly with Mark, still a mate, to drag his dad home….they were wild days for that aboriginal community I can assure you. I can see how our indigenous city cousins have assimilated to modernity, but we still need to support the bushies who haven’t

I am sick of aboriginals. Perhaps I am more sick of the aboriginal industry than of the people, but the result is the same.

I am sick of hearing cries of anguish about the health of people who are drinking themselves into the grave.

I am sick of cries of poor education of people who won't send their kids to school.

I am sick of hearing "the government" doesn't provide employment for people who chose to live where is no employment, or go walkabout after just a few months in a real job.

I am sick of those who want to be paid to pretend to help aboriginals.

I no longer donate to the Royal Flying Doctor service, since that time when they were "too busy" flying pregnant aboriginal women to & from their regular check up in Cairns, to divert to pick up an injured worker.

It is time we walked away, with the understanding of the old tale about leading horses to water, & making them drink. We should dump all references to aboriginals in law, & in parliaments.

When, or if, they are ready to be helped into the modern world, they will come demanding their "rights". Until we are merely pushing it up hill with a sharp stick, while being ripped off by a bunch of smarties. Enough must be enough surely.

Sorry sonofgloin, that is nothing particularly to do with aboriginal culture old mate.

In the days of 6.00 o'clock closing I would often be sent down to one of the pubs in town around 7.00PM to drag dad home, or at least take the car home if he wouldn't come. Mom was worried about him killing himself if he attempted to drive home. I was 15 or 16 at the time.

We had a bike rack made for the back of the car, so I didn't have to walk in.

I was not alone, there could be half a dozen kids in fetching dad, & not an aboriginal among them. Some times the local police sargent would come in & help roust the men out. It was amusing that he made sure it was the unlicensed kids driving, not the drunk fathers.

It took many of these ex WW11 soldiers 20 yeras to grow out of it, & many died a lot younger than they should have.

It may take many more years than that for our aborigines to grow out of it, after all, it took our European ancestors a couple of hundred years to grow up during the industrial revolution, why should we expect aboriginals to be any faster?

It is time to stop pushing, & let them find themselves, in their own time, in their own way.

Hasbeen old fruit, calm down. I won't dispute what you have said.

My only comment is that (for the sake of perspective) I wish you were born to an alcoholic father and illiterate mother, living in an inner city hovel supported by benefits with no authority figure at home that thinks past today. Not much chance for that kid, and that was most of the aboriginal kids I grew up with.

Your stereotypes are not historically false, but they aint helping.

As I said in my first post, any money given to aboriginals stays in our economy….unlike the Billions that the Carbon Tax is sending to new owners in the northern hemisphere.

Last year while driving up to Qld I stopped to get a burger at a small town on the coast. A couple of young aboriginal women were being served. The only way that I could describe their attitude and the way they addressed the Caucasian woman behind the counter would be with contempt. When I picked up my burger I asked the woman what their problem was. She said that the majority of aboriginals treated the whites with contempt; she said they begrudge what the whites have.

People are people, and the uneducated come in all colours and that is all I took away from that episode.

While you were up in gods country, did you notice any of the Kanakas, or their mixed race progeny.

You may not, they have disappeared into the scenery. The check out chick, the local mechanic or whatever, it is hard to spot them.

They came as near slaves, with no more advantages than the aboriginal, but with no department bleeding all over them, they have just got on with life, & did the best they could. That is not a bad best either.

A mate of mine had a cane cutting kanaka father. He was one of 7 kids, living in a country town, with the educational disadvantages that gave. It did not stop him flying as an air force Sabre pilot in the Korean war.

I reckon many aborigines could have done the same, if they had not suffered from the sit down money syndrome.

sonofgloin

Your response to Hasbeen was very balanced. Your experience in the shop is an everyday occurence for many living in Regional centres throughout WA.

I don't blame the aboriginals with the stinking attitude problem but the academics who twist, lie and suck up to the UN in continually feeding the victim mentality. Whether you are white, yellow or purple if you are fed the lies by prominent academics and pushed by national broadcasters you will end up with stinking attitudes prevelant in much of the arm band industry.

Funny enough many of the elders on the ground know the problem but are consistently ignored and overruled by the 'more educated'. Exposing the myths can end you up in court. Just ask Andrew Bolt who was found guilty on technalities but spoke much truth about the industry.

indigenous health and education - is it improving?
worldwatcher,
Bonafide indigenous are not making any so-called progress, it's not in their nature. On the other hand the mixed race indigenous are catching up at the same pace as the dilution of their race.
I have just spent time with people from each group & there's definitely no apparent change from the past 30 years by those from the former group whereas the people from the latter group are climbing the ladders in the public service.
None that I am aware of are actually benefitting their communities. Some hands-on workers have the sense of responsibility needed to keep the communities afloat but they're very thin in numbers.
Judging by the "southerners" coming into the communities the numbers of competent aren't much better down there either.

Has been>> I reckon many aborigines could have done the same, if they had not suffered from the sit down money syndrome<<

I remember the Kanaka from social studies in primary…didn’t we literally ship them all back?

I understand the point you make about the difference in work ethic between our first Aussies and the Kanaka.

Hb, I still stand by my gene theory. I consider the Polynesian Kanaka were eons ahead in the cerebral department than our stone age first Aussies. I simply believe that six or ten generations out from the Stone Age, you are going to have difficulty assimilating into modernity. It is not to say that you cannot achieve, but for the most part you end up at the bottom of the socio economic tree.

Runner, a load of truth in what you said.

Son they were not Polynesian, they were Melanesian, mostly from the Solomons.

There was a wide range of them, but mostly they were little more advanced than the coastal aboriginals of the time. About their only advantage to the planter in Oz, against the aboriginal, was that they could not melt into the bush, & disappear, when ever they felt like it.

Yes mate we sent them all back, just like we eliminated all the Tasmanian aboriginals. For many of them, with the better bosses, the cane fields were a better life than was offering at home.

They may not have been able to hide in the bush from the boss, but they had no trouble eluding the fool bureaucrats sent to round them up, & ship them back. I'm sure that doesn't surprise you, does it?

Hasbeen>> I'm sure that doesn't surprise you, does it?<<

Hb, I wasn't having a go at you tiger.

…didn’t we literally ship them all back?
SoG,
Fortunately no, they're literally the only positive influence for the indigenous. They assimilated amazingly well & should be put up as examples to others. My personal experience with their descendants is that they'd be great role models if only the do-gooders would let them.

I here you hasbeen, but unfortunately we can't say what we think, even if it is obviously true, cause some do gooder will call us racist.

For me, it's time they (Aboriginals) put up or shut up, cause they can't have it both ways.

I say, option one, be like an every day Aussie, move to where the jobs are and get a job, god knows they are heavily favored in that regard, or option two, stay in the remote area, hunt, fish, do why ever they please but with a big fat zero from the tax payer.

This throwing good money after bad has to stop, because after all said and done, they represent a very small percentage of the population, they demand so much, yet give so little in return.

For me, it's like pissing into a fan.

be like an every day Aussie,
rehctub,
that worked for quite a while but then Labor got in & started to call us racists.

sonofgloin, not reading you having a go at me, I agree with most of what you have said.

In fact I think we are merely reading from the other side of the same page.

The money we waste is not necessarily caused by aboriginals. I knew a photographer some years back, who had been part of an aerial photography unit in the then dept. of aboriginal affairs for a few years.

With a budget of 20 million, they traveled Oz taking shots of every aboriginal settlement in the country every year. These were kept on file, in case the minister needed to compare settlements at different times.

Now if that's not over kill, what is?

Hasbeen,
I think I know that happy snapper with his own plane. I have consistently drawn attention to the fact that enormous sums of taxpayers' money is squandered & syphoned from indigenous communities into the bank accounts of outsider bureaucrats. As a matter of fact right now this is happening on a grand scale in the area I live in FNQ. I'm still waiting for the Newman Government to rid us from the vermin consultants & shonky contractors & incompetent yes-men. Thus far things are continuing as if Labor was still in power.
The white crooks simply retire on million Dollar Super & the indigenous crooks escape by becoming Pastors. Meanwhile the amalgamation circus is sending more clowns around the country to do yet more damage.
Newman is getting rid of some people but he's getting rid of the wrong ones. He is consulting the crooks on how to cut back on workers. I hope he wakes up soon.