Hi sonofgloin,
I see the problem.
I know the difference between a million and a billion but evidently my fat fingers don't .
No offence taken
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.a

MOTL>>There are some quite worrying signs that we have not done this as a nation. Our productivity relative to the rest of the world is declining.<<

Our productivity did not decline, it was dismantled. Today they can produce products cheaper in the second and third world than in the first. The same goes for 30 years ago, 50 years ago, and 80 years ago. The difference is a U.N. protocol called the Lima Agreement signed in the early 1970’s.

With this agreement Australia agreed to drop tariffs over a thirty year period. In fact the whole first world signed this treasonous parchment. Now the whole first world makes nothing. There is 20% unemployment in the EU, and it will not improve, how can it, any business that starts up has to compete with imports from the second and third world.

To see our future you must understand that the first world’s downfall was planned and executed by the IMF, World Bank, and the European banking cartel. The Lima Agreement actually states that it is about spreading the wealth. But the only ones that grew were the banks along with the service industries in all first world nations. There were more jobs in the paper for Barristers than tradesmen the other day….

The incredible thing is that the left and right parties of all first world nations signed as a block on behalf of their nation. Perhaps that was the start of the centralism that makes left and right mirror images of each other these days. Our problem is no protection, and neither party talks about it, bankers got their tongue.



MOTL>> The amount of directly productive people relative to administrative people has become out of kilter. I'm not at all convinced that our total debt has all been used for future profit generating investments<<

Why not admin staff, there is only paper to shuffle, we make nothing. The astute P Keating commented “we can have as many unemployed as we can afford” when discussing the dropping of trade barriers.

579>> What has an American treasury site got to do with us.<<

Absolutely nothing, I'm a dill.

This is the right one
The Australian: Budget 2012'

"The government anticipates an interest bill on its outstanding debt of more than $12bn this year, which is equivalent to more than half the government's defence budget. That will fall marginally in coming years as the debt is retired."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/the-nations-debt-ceiling-set-to-hit-300bn/story-fndbwnla-1226350371341

Have a look at the debt clock, god its fast, a thousand dollars per second is the current growth rate. Look at the individuals share of that debt, it was only a few hundred when Kev took over, and it is now the highest in our history and we have nothing to show for it. Just like the AWU and the fund that Gillard set up.

http://www.debtclock.com.au/

sonofgloin, couldn't have put it better myself.
> " Why not admin staff, there is only paper to shuffle, we make nothing. The astute P Keating commented “we can have as many unemployed as we can afford” when discussing the dropping of trade barriers.

As Anthony alluded to above, the problem now is, that not only has the debt not been used for productive investment, much of it has not been used for ANY investment. Much of the debt is accrued through running costs. We really are just waking up in Vegas somewhere with a tiger in the room.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
The really worrying thing is that it is questionable whether Australians/Australian governments have the ability to get up a bit earlier in the morning and work a bit harder [for less] for a while to reposition ourselves.
There are other countries in the world who always seem to have this ability. Japan is currently in a weak position also, but you can't help but think that the Japanese have the ability to sort themselves out. As do the Germans.

MOTL, the poor Japanese certainly copped a double whammy with the tsunami clobbering them a few years after the GFC. That bill was over $300 billion. But they do not have to borrow the money, they have it. As you said we, or should I say Labor, borrowed $170 BILLION and we have nothing to show for it, except a BILLION dollar per month interest bill.

Dunno what to say mate, we are stuffed. I read today that jobs were down for the 8th month in a row. This time WA and Qld have shown a downturn. I have a vocation that takes me out to mines right across Australia. In the past six months I have seen the wind down in coal. But new projects in gold and silver are popping up all over the place.

It is a concern when precious metals are vibrant, but a staple like coal is in decline. It speaks volumes to me, but probably overlooked by the masses

sonofgloin, I hear where you are coming from. It is always a concern when gold in particular becomes more and more viable to mine. This essentially means that money is becoming worth less.
What we have here is not a crisis of confidence, it is a crisis of culture! We have the expectation of being owed a good standard of living so ingrained into the Australian way now that it seems such an uphill battle to reverse it now. It is only through chance that in my state of QLD that we have a government that is trying to make some steps to curb this. Even then, they are under enormous pressure and hugely unpopular. The arguments about the job cuts and govt spending tell the story. The important questions are almost never raised. What were these people doing? Do they realise that the productive people of the state had to pay for what they were doing?
Our culture is broken. Our political system is broken. I originally joined OLO to get a gauge on whether there are other people out there who share this view. In some ways it has been encouraging to find that there are some people that do. In other ways, it confirms my suspicions that most people are stuck in their narrow field of focus