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The Forum > General Discussion > One hundred thousand bucks a year per person

One hundred thousand bucks a year per person

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You're kidding, we are spending $100,000 per year, per person, just so we can care for these illegals in tent city.

There must be hundreds of our own pensioners wondering just how they can catch one of these boats. Hell, most of them would be happy to bring their own tent.

What a complete joke this government is.

I say enough is enough, STOP WASTING MY TAXES!
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 6:40:58 PM
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People get the Govt which they deserve, Rectub. So they pay for
the consequences of their actions. Just like the Americans voted
for Bush, who landed up wrecking their country. Nobody said that
democracy is a great system, its simply the least worst.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 8:08:27 PM
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Dear Butcher,

They are, until designated otherwise by the proper authorities, refugees.

I suppose you have to do two things to make your complaint a valid one. First show evidence that $100,000 dollars a year is being spent on every individual refugee and secondly prove you are paying tax, or at least the benefits you receive from this government are exceeded by the amount of tax you pay.

Unless you are able to furnish proper documentation to that effect then you will be deemed to be taking more than you are giving, in other words bludging off the system.

If that is the case, and I suspect it might be, you need to put a sock in it!
Posted by csteele, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 9:18:31 PM
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That figure is wrong because it does not take into account.
1) The navy taxi service that picked most of them up in Indonesian waters
2) the payment that will be made to the charities that will look after them
3) They will not have factored in the following things which will end up costing MILLIONS 1) the legal fees when they take the Gov to court 2) The cost of repairs after they hold the first and subsequent riots and destroy the facility.
Even the UN has said a lot of them are ECONOMIC refugees.
Australia the sucker country.
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 9:36:46 PM
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Government hypocrisy - If an Australian citizen was injured on Christmas Island do you think the Government would charter a 737 jet to fly the citizen to Perth.

I am sure you all said NO.

But that is precisely what the Government did for one of the refugees. I would say that 1 person alone has cost more than $100 thousand dollars, courtesy of the Australian taxpayer.
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 10:59:05 PM
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The figure you quote is wrong - Quote "The Houston expert panel report on asylum seeker boat arrivals released on Monday put the cost of the new arrangements, including reopening detention centres on Nauru and Manus Island, at $4.6 billion."
It gives no details how they arrived at that or if it a figure over an operational period.
But it is enough to go to Indonesia and buy every damn boat and have a big bonfire. Then lets see what they use bathtubs
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:11:38 PM
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NEWS FLASH………………………….Seismic activity is being recorded at all Australian cemeteries, the dead who built Australia for us are turning in their graves……particularly members of the old Labor movement.
Posted by sonofgloin, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:22:50 PM
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Dear CSteele,

You seem to have a habit of getting things back-to-front.

<<They are, until designated otherwise by the proper authorities, refugees>>

No.

They are “asylum seekers” (well, actually, economic migrants pretending to be “asylum seekers”) and illegals until such time as they are rubber stamped “found to genuine” refugees .

And to further expand your vocabulary, those who advocate on their behalf are property termed, right gooses

And on that other point of yours:

<<to make your complaint a valid one. First show evidence that $100,000 dollars a year is being spent on every individual refugee>>

No, he does not.

All he has to do is apply the AGW formula ( which you should know all about as you are positioning yourself as AGW’s town crier!)
You take the total amount of CO2 ( or in this case the total cost)
And you divide that by the population of the country ( or, in this case the population of “asylum seekers”)
And whammo! you have the amount spend, or more fittingly,wasted, on pandering to the “asylum seekers” scam.

So to quote your dear self : << put a sock in it!>
Posted by SPQR, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 6:44:47 AM
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The image presented is that every asylum seeker is trousering a hundred grand.

But the real economic benefit is actually quite widely disbursed, is it not - buildings are built by builders, building materials are sourced, services are provided by personnel employed for such purposes, all of whom pay taxes, provide downstream value to shops etc.

Still, the image of asylum seekers living the high life on an executive salary while pensioners scrabble around for a crust of bread is such a powerful one, it would be a shame to waste it. Certainly doesn't do to think too clearly about it, or the "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" rhetoric would fall very flat.

>>There must be hundreds of our own pensioners wondering just how they can catch one of these boats<<

Absolutely, rehctub.

I can see them queuing up right now, with their worldly possessions in a small shopping bag, preparing for a joyride on a rotting, unseaworthy boat, to a highly uncertain future. Having used up their life savings just to get on board, secure in the knowledge that rehctub will be waiting for them dockside, with a bucketful of money.

Hmmmm. Something wrong with that picture, I suspect.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 9:48:13 AM
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*I can see them queuing up right now, with their worldly possessions in a small shopping bag, preparing for a joyride on a rotting, unseaworthy boat, to a highly uncertain future*

Sounds a bit like those Mexicans, millions of them, pouring over the
US border, to a highly uncertain future. Only they crawl through the
desert etc. Economic refugees.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 10:46:51 AM
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Perhaps you don't realise Pericles, that the same economic activity would occur if we were to supply the same housing to our own.

Smart ass comments not withstanding, what is it you have against our own people? How many of these square peg gate crashers will it take to mend that bleeding heart of yours?
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 11:00:10 AM
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Pericles,

<<Hmmmm. Something wrong with that picture, I suspect.>>

Nooooo, there’s something wrong with your imagination, I suspect.

Rehctub is highlighting the huge sums of money spent in servicing “asylum seekers”.

And it is not unreasonable to suggest that there are pensioners who live under conditions worse (and in cases fare worse) than those that “asylum seekers” on Nauru will experience.

And it wont be a matter of anyone << joyrid(ing) on a rotting, unseaworthy boat>> as they are likely to be transported to Nauru on the HMAS taxi service – or better.
Posted by SPQR, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 11:01:46 AM
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Pericles - quote "Having used up their life savings just to get on board," Wrong a lot the fare is paid to the smuggler in Australia by people who have already arrived, they are paying for relatives. Which makes you wonder where they got the money?

Remeber cap't emad and his 5 shops etc in Malaysia plus he worked there for years he was given a visa. - That goes to show how good our vetting process is he and thousand I would say have fooled the Government.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 2:30:10 PM
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What a misanthropic bunch you are, to be sure. Not a single bone of humanity in your bodies. (I nearly said "Christian charity", but that would be making assumptions.)

>>Perhaps you don't realise Pericles, that the same economic activity would occur if we were to supply the same housing to our own.<<

It certainly hadn't occurred to me that it is a zero-sum game - for every dollar we spend on a refugee, somebody's white-haired old granny dies in squalor and penury...? Are you sure that's how it works?

>>Smart ass comments not withstanding, what is it you have against our own people? How many of these square peg gate crashers will it take to mend that bleeding heart of yours?<<

Unlike some - a type that appears well represented here, I notice - I believe that Australians are a generous, hospitable people who value the concept of "a fair go". As such, I have absolutely nothing against them In fact, I am very much in favour of them.

>>Rehctub is highlighting the huge sums of money spent in servicing “asylum seekers”.<<

And I was highlighting the opportunities for growing the economy as a result of the same activity. We simply see the same situation from a different angle, that's all.

>>Wrong a lot the fare is paid to the smuggler in Australia by people who have already arrived, they are paying for relatives<<

"A lot"? I'll believe "some". But every single one of the small handful of refugees that I know personally came the hard way, and arrived here with nothing but the clothes they wore.

Just returning to the headline of this thread for a moment.

"One hundred thousand bucks a year per person"

Let me ask a simple question.

What, in your view, would be an acceptable amount?

Ten thousand? One thousand? One hundred? Ten bucks...

Nothing?

Ahhh... I see.

So it's not about the money at all, is it.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 3:34:01 PM
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@Pericles,

<< “Rehctub is highlighting the huge sums of money spent in servicing "asylum seekers'

And I was highlighting the opportunities for growing the economy as a result of the same activity. We simply see the same situation from a different angle, that's all>>

And you cannot conceive that money spent like this:

“An empty 737 plane chartered by the Federal Government was used to transfer a single asylum seeker from Christmas Island to Perth at the weekend”.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/14036715/737-chartered-for-one-asylum-seekers/

“The government reportedly is racking up a monthly bill of close to $2.5 million to house 500 asylum seekers.The immigration department has said it paid $60,000 a night in November 2010 to house up to 188 people at Darwin's Airport Lodge.
http://g4online.org/node?page=6

Might be spend more effectively?
Posted by SPQR, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 4:07:35 PM
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SPQR, here is some more info for Pericles
1) household goods worth thousands of dollars, including DVDs and plasma TVs, are being included in welcome packs provided to asylum seekers being housed in rent-free homes while their claims are processed.
2) Don't forget the free cigarettes
3) NOW even the Gillard Government knows the truth about its bungled refugee program. The people it's bringing in are costing us billions, with 85 per cent of refugees on Centrelink benefits in their first five years here.
4) Asylum seekers on Christmas Island have in the past year racked up a telephone bill costing taxpayers more than $15,000 a week.
5) Free legal aid for asylum seekers will cost taxpayers more than $60 million this year
6) In 2010/11 the cost of maintaining Australia's detention centres was about $770 million, or an average of $137,000 per detainee.

Every where else in the world the refugees are mostly women and children BUT here is what Australia gets Quote "thousands of young men to travel from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Pakistan to get on illegal boats to Australia."
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 4:33:01 PM
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What has happened is that they have outworn our generosity.
It does get to the point when we could put all that money to better use.
To make matters worse we now know that the genuine refugees are only a
small proportion of the total.
We are literally being mugged by those destroying their passports.
What have they got to hide ?
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 5:32:53 PM
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Ok, so now we are discussing how inefficient our public servants are, and how they spend our money like water.

Fair enough. I agree that those concerned appear to have no concept of the value of money. I can probably think of a number of other government programmes where our taxes are pissed up against a wall. It is, sadly, in the nature of people who spend money that is not their own, to indulge in excess and stupidity. So I am not defending their profligacy.

But at least we are talking about the money, and not the people.

So, any thoughts on how much is a sensible amount?
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 5:37:08 PM
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Pericles I will tell you exactly how much is a sensible amount.

Look after our elderly, fix our health system, properly fund education, and there are more, then, distribute what's left, evenly to the non local needy causes.

The whole point is, even the likes of you must wonder why these people get allocated $100,000+, per person, in assistance, while our own needy get two fiths of bugger all.

I ask you, is there any other country in the world who knowingly neglects the needs of their own, in favor of illegals?
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 7:52:45 PM
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*So, any thoughts on how much is a sensible amount?*

Yes Pericles. What it costs to evaluate 20'000 asylum seekers a year
in refugee camps and bring them to Australia. For at least we know
that they are genuine and its not only mainly young men who we
are assisting, but women and children too, who don't have 2c.

*I believe that Australians are a generous, hospitable people who value the concept of "a fair go*

If you are for a fair go, why make it a boat race limited to those
who can afford it as the selection criteria?
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 7:56:24 PM
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The only reason it costs so much is because those the operate the system dont want to change it.

Today with precision GPS technology crooks should be have to wear an immobilisation pin. When they fail to show up or deviate from an approved location or path the get an auto injection. The cops go and pick then up in their sleepy state as we know where they are anyway.

it is a serious waste of time locking most of there people up when we have virtual prison technology available.
Posted by complex, Thursday, 13 September 2012 9:02:30 AM
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How do I explain this, rehctub? Perhaps if I speak a little more slowly for you...

>>The whole point is, even the likes of you must wonder why these people get allocated $100,000+, per person, in assistance, while our own needy get two fiths of bugger all.<<

"These people" are not being "allocated $100,000+, per person".

This is the total amount that is spent, by the government, on the refugee programme, divided by the number of refugees.

So it includes the salaries of all the public servants who sit on their bums pushing bits of paper, as well as the army of people involved in other activities - for all we know, it could include the cost of the sailors on the coastal patrols who find the boats in the first place.

As Philip S pointed out, it is a programme that is open to all kinds of abuse - the government is even paying lawyers fees. Come to think of it, that could account for at least half the $100,000, right there.

Please feel free to offer to change places with any of them, rehctub, so that you can bask in the government's largesse. I suspect you'd find the food is worse than your mother's.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 13 September 2012 10:27:19 AM
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Thought experiments can be fun… and economic ones even more so.

For example, rehctub: if you had the meat supply contract for all the detention centres would you still say, "…enough is enough, STOP WASTING MY TAXES!"?

What is the standing cost for the Australian Navy – whether they're operating a 'taxi service' or not?

On the question of saving money it just occurred to me that the annual health-care budget in Australia is in the region of $50 billion. Apparently about 75% of this is spent on people in the last six months of their life.

So why don't we try to save $37.5 billion each year by having people die six months earlier?

D'oh…

(Homophonic joke in the previous line for those who missed it)
Posted by WmTrevor, Thursday, 13 September 2012 10:48:27 AM
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*I suspect you'd find the food is worse than your mother's.*

Hardly a valid comparison Pericles, but you would know that.

These are people seemingly fearing for their lives, then burning
down buildings, funded by the taxpayer. Now if I had been fearing
for my life and was now safely housed and fed, very similarly to
what they give the army or even many mining camps, I would be
rather happy to be alive and appreciate what I had. OTOH, if I
had expected that paying a people smuggler, would buy me the cushy
Aussie lifestyle with all its largesse and was then held in a camp,
that might be frustrating as I did not get my way.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 13 September 2012 11:13:07 AM
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Pericles, no need to speak slowly, as this is the budget for Nauru, nothing else.

The scary bit is that it's a budget and, given labor's record of working within budget, we should all be even more worried.

So perhaps you may like to find out just how much, per person , our pensioner (old age) is.

The last time I checked there were no free flights to family funerals either, even if they were armed service heroes.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 13 September 2012 7:21:47 PM
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Ok, so how much do you reckon we should budget to blow them out of the water?

On a per capita basis of course.
Posted by Bugsy, Thursday, 13 September 2012 8:11:22 PM
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rehctub - There are a LOT of costs that are not in that figure
1) The extra aid (bribe) to get Nauru to agree to do it in the first place.
2) The charities that will look after them.
3) The public servants in Canberra and elsewhere that are involved.
4) The cost of chartering a 737 to carry them.
5) The overtime rate and accommodation allowances etc for the 90 federal police that will go with them .
6) "education contractors" they will be provided contract teachers for the kids.
All of the above are not included in the figure, The REAL cost would be way above that.
This Government is an absolute joke and have made or country the refugee paradise
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 13 September 2012 8:18:36 PM
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Bugsy, we already play war games, why not have them there.

Philip, I know, but just how sickening do you want this to be.

One has to wonder, with perhaos the mining booms end in sight, where are they going to steal the money from, health, education?

I recon labor has a chocolate wheel in the room with all our needs on it and the illegals in the middle. Just wonder where it will land on today's spin.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 14 September 2012 5:27:58 AM
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Wonder how much it cost to set up Nauru originally, under John Howard's watch?
Posted by bonmot, Friday, 14 September 2012 6:52:16 AM
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Um... that was actually my point, rehctub.

>>Pericles, no need to speak slowly, as this is the budget for Nauru, nothing else<<

So you appear satisfied now, that your assertion that "these people get allocated $100,000+, per person" might be misinterpreted as meaning that we plonk a hundred grand in their hands, as a thank-you for making the journey.

Now that we have clarity on that, let's look at the real issues.

My question still stands: how much would be an acceptable dollar figure to you, the taxpayer, as the amount per person that we should spend on our refugee programmes?

Is that number greater than zero?

If it isn't, then we can all stop pretending this is actually about money, can't we, and start hearing about your real concerns.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 14 September 2012 11:25:30 AM
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Precisely Pericles

But I'm out of here, this and other OLO threads are starting to stink of other things (I mean "concerns").
Posted by bonmot, Friday, 14 September 2012 12:26:30 PM
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Bono, the centre served it's purpose, it helped to STOP THE BOATS and, it was my understanding that it was in decent shape, until Rud has his brain storm idea to close it down and allow it to deteriated to it's present state.

Pericles, as I said, it should be a portion of our foreign aid budget, however, this government, in fact the previous government as well, think they can just allocate our taxes to what ever cause they choose, I.e. War, illegals.

However, the fact remains that they pore so much into this cause, while knowingly neglecting our own people, people who many of paid the taxes in the first place, both former and present day.

It's an utter disgrace to think what we as a nation could achieve, if not for the reckless spending habits of governments, as after all, they are collecting our taxes, so as to provide for us firstly, then, and only then, help others if funds are available.

Don't forget, we, the tax payer are borrowing this $500 million and will also have to pay it back, or at least our generations to follow will.

We have already lost the pension to a large degree, what I mean is, many workers today know they won't get a pension.

Why? Because of the waste and miss management of governments.

Meanwhile, many of our elderly pay their entire pension to be cared for, that's after a $150K bond in some cases, of which they may get about 40% back.

I say again and again, if only they were accountable, like other money managers in the real world.

BTW, I hope you really didn't think I meant each illegal was handed a hundred grand.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 14 September 2012 6:30:43 PM
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Butch, you bang on about how much Nauru is costing today's taxpayer.

Don't skirt the simple question butcher: how much did it cost the tax payer under Howard?

My point to Pericles:
Recent OLO threads (like yours) seem to be dog-whistling to the bigots in our free, democratic and Christian society.
Posted by bonmot, Friday, 14 September 2012 7:47:32 PM
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So Pericles, let me ask you a question. Next time that you fill out
your tax return, will you use every trick in the book to minimise
your tax, or will you be generous and cough up extra, knowing that
the Govt needs the money to fund the extra expense of the present
asylum seeker programme ?
Or perhaps you don't care if they borrow the money and your kids
can pay it off one day?
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 14 September 2012 8:58:24 PM
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Don't skirt the simple question butcher: how much did it cost the tax payer under Howard?

Bomot, you're kidding, what, all 300 of them in four years.

On the question of our taxes, I can assure you I will be doing everything in my power to avoid paying tax, as it's the only option for me to avoid contributing to this incompitent governments slush fund.

It's more negative gearing for me.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 15 September 2012 6:46:08 AM
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@Bonmot,

<< My point…>>
You haven’t got a point (or a principle) Bonmot!

<<how much did it cost the tax payer under Howard?>>
And don’t hide behind Julia’s “skirt”.

You couldn’t give a dogs whistle about costs.
Whatever the costs of Nauru under Howard (or Gillard) it is likely to be but a fraction of the cost of your AGW scam.
Posted by SPQR, Saturday, 15 September 2012 6:46:55 AM
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Butch,
You raised the question/thread about the cost to taxpayers of Nauru under this current government. I simply asked likewise of the former government.

Both you and SPQR are avoiding the comparative costings.

You because you might realise the set-up costs are probably cheaper now than then per asylum seeker.

SPQR because he wants to change the topic/goal posts - a typical tactic of someone who thinks they are losing an argument.

Quite frankly, I'm with Pericles on this issue, both of you are dog-whistling about other issues and are just using the asylum seekers to spread bigoted rumour and untruths.

Avagoodweekend, I'm outahere :)
Posted by bonmot, Saturday, 15 September 2012 8:44:03 AM
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