Does anyone think the Bali nine are being treated too harshly by the Indonesian goverment?

Should they have learned by the example that Indonesia set of Schapelle Corby and Michelle Lesley?

I cant help but think that they had ample warning by the media beat up that surrounded those 2 cases...
Should they have known better?

I tend to think so.

OZGIRL, if you jump off a cliff one of the possible consequences is death. It might be harsh but thats reality.

The ones I feel for are the family members who will have to go through the trauma of knowing it's going to happen, the media commentary before and after the event and the wondering if they could have done something differently.

I don't relish the death of any person but it is a fate that awaits us all, what varies is the manner and timing of our passing.

What matters is how we live during the time we have.

Cheers
R0bert

RObert the law of gravity is not subject to moral questioning. I think legal and judicial systems ought to be. The Indonesian legal system is not an inanimate force: it consists of human beings trying to make rational and reasonable decisions about human problems.

Nobody I’m aware of appears to have seriously questioned that the Bali 9 were guilty of the offences they were charged with (which is different to the Shapelle Corby case, where there have been a number of credible voices suggesting she would not have been found guilty under Australian law and legal process).

But I’m deeply opposed to the death penalty for anyone, even the Bali bombers, Osama bin Laden, etc. Apart from anything else, it’s hard to understand what possible deterrent a death penalty might hold for a would be suicide bomber or those who subscribe to that insane belief system.

Cont below:

For the Indonesians, though, the perceived deterrent value of these draconian penalties for drug traffickers is more important than considerations of proportionality. Undoubtedly, being involved in heroin trafficking of these quantities is not a trivial matter, but most of these kids seem to be relatively minor players – no major players would get caught going through customs of an Asian airport with the stuff strapped to their bodies.

The relationship between Australia and Indonesia makes things even more complicated. From what I can see, former European colonies, particularly Muslim ones, get understandably prickly if not outraged about any perception of interference by Western powers in their internal affairs, including their legal system and their external boundaries. (Rumsfeld’s fantasy of US troops being greeted in Iraq with universal joy has to be one of the most insensitive and stupid predictions of this century so far). Australia’s involvement in the independence of East Timor remains a sore point among some Indonesians, and the question of West Papua is a continuing irritation. Indonesia is a very new and evolving democracy, and is a country with numerous potential fracture lines. Their government would be mad to ignore the sensitivities of its own people, and its growing narcotics problem is a major concern.

Yes, OZGIRL, they should have known better. Most of us can think of times in our own lives when we could say the same thing about our own actions. For many kids getting involved in crime is a long sequence of should-have-known-betters, each one making it harder and harder to escape, and to make the straight decision. Drugs, alienation, mental illness and lack of education make the slippery slope steeper. I’d like these kids to get another chance some day – not soon, mind you - but I feel deeply sad that it appears they won’t.

That makes a lot of sense Snout...and very fair comments...

I feel that our Government does precious little to help our people imprisoned overseas..David Hicks..thats criminal the way they let the US keep him locked up...
Its inhumane.

The death penalty for drug smuggling is too harsh by Australian standards. But, the Australians knew what the penalty was, and they still went ahead with the crime. Once again, Ozgirl, there should be no sympathy for Australian drug smugglers caught and punished in foreign countries where the crime is taken much more seriously than it is here.

Indonesia deals out the same punishment to their own citizens. Why on earth should they treat foreigners any differently?

The death penalty for drug smuggling has been in Asia for more than 30 years, you see it on big signs in all Asian airports, stating its death if you get caught trafficking in drugs. Its irrelevant as to whether they were just young carriers, they were perfectly aware of what they were doing and the consequences.

They were also told if they appealed, because of their crime, they may get an increase in their sentence after having it dropped from life to 20 years. Only a fool, knowing the chances of death on appeal were greater than release, would go ahead and push the Indonesian system.

You must remember, they were tried by a Bali court and they first appeal was to a Bali court, a Hindu Muslim court. Their last appeal was to the high court of Indonesia, a Muslim court. Surely with the consequences of those combinations, wouldn't it make sense to sit and try for pardons or even exchange.

Its very sad for the families, but nothing can be done. I'm not against the death penalty for horrific crimes, and don't feel its required in circumstances like this. When you look at how the Indonesian court sees it, it makes more sense.

Firstly it wasn't their first quick trip to Bali, They'd been watched on trips before. People blame the Australian police for dobbing them in, but I believe they only informed the Indonesians of the day they'd arrive. The Indonesians were already aware of their previous trips and just put 2 and 2 together.

Secondly the Indonesians determine punishment for drugs according to the projected harm the drugs would do in circulation. They equated that as affecting thousands of people and killing some. That's not unreasonable as a preventative action. Sadly only fools don't take notice of reality and suffer its consequences when their illusions are over run.

Pleading not guilty in Indonesia is not like pleading not guilty in Australia.

Pleading not guilty in Indonesia is like calling all the public servants, including the judiciary, the police and the government a mob of no-good liars - and Indonesians don't like that very much. If one pleads 'not guilty' one had better be sure they can uphold their plea. For the Bali nine to plead not guilty was dumb. They were caught red handed - we all saw it unfold on TV. The safer way was to acknowledge their wrong-doing and assist the police by doing so they would have probably escaped the death penalty.

Does anyone remember what happened to that 'other' Australian, a model, that was caught with drugs - back in Australia.

I am a regular holiday traveller to Bali and one of my sons has a Balinese wife and lives there.

I see the signs on the airport warning of the death penalty for drug dealing and so does everyone else. It doesn't concern me and it doesn't concern my son, because we wouldn't be so stupid as to get involved in drugs. And neither of us would be so uncaring about others as to try and make a fast buck out of misery and death.

When I'm in Bali I understand their laws and customs. It's really very easy to have a good time there, because the Balinese are generally very tolerant and certainly not narrow minded. But Indonesia [including Bali] increasingly has a major problem with drug use and the Indonesian authorities are entitled to decide for themselves what they need to do to counter this problem.

I think it is a gross impertinence for the Australian govt to try and interfere in Indonesia's internal affairs, just as it is if they try to interfere in ours.

My feeling is that being a drug user is a health issue and should not be a criminal offense in Australia, and that addicts should be required to register and then get free treatment. If, at least initially, the only treatment is more of the same, then so be it.

Some would ask why their taxes should be spent on supplying drugs to addicts. Well, it would be much cheaper than paying for largely unworkable law enforcement. And why would anyone want to pay big money, probably obtained through crime, when they could address their addiction free of charge? And under these circumstances, why would anyone want to take the risk of bringing drugs into Australia for no financial return?

Rex it might also cut down on a lot of consequential crime. The thefts required to pay for drug habits with the flow on effects for the rest of us who lock doors and windows we would rather keep open. The occasional people who dies during house fires because they are locked behind security designed to keep thieves out and all of the rest of the flow on effects of our current approach to the war on drugs.

It might increase the quality of drugs available to addicts and remove some of the damaging side effects caused by lacing drugs with other substances.

How to deal with the issue in a way that helps both the community and the addict is something that we don't seem to be willing to move ahead on.

R0bert

Yes I think the punishment is far too harsh! But then "When in Rome" I would imagine the Bali 9 knew the risks when attempting what they did. But still I feel death is so absolutely final. I can understand the theory that some people have to kill these people will save the lives of others. But would it? After these people have been killed there will be others to take their places. The temptation of the dollar is far too great.

I would imagine that their families are terribly distraught at what is happening to them. Life is strange sometimes - here we have two wonderful Australians as in Steve Irwin and Peter Brock who met their fate far too early and then we have these young people just throwing their lives away doesnt seem right. I am sure the families of the Bali 9 will grieve just as much, but for different reasons.

By Australian standards the penalty was far too high and barbaric. By Indonesian standards it was the norm to sentence drug smugglers to death. As commented in other posts, the Bali 9 should have been well aware of the law in Indonesia as it is well posted in the airports and elsewhere.It is unlikely that they did not know of it. There have been a number of people who have gone on trial in Thailand, even though that country appears to have more lenient appeal courts than Indonesia. Those who were born at the time of the Barlow and Chambers cases in Malaysia may remember the dreadful fate of being hanged which befell those two young Australians who were found guilty of smuggling drugs there. This was in spite of the best efforts of the Australian Government on their behalf. My sympathy goes to the families during the trying times ahead.