csteele, I don't have a problem with gun laws, it's just that they have, in my opinion, gone too far, in that ordinary decent people are denied the right to have a gun.

I can legally, and do, have guns. Why, because I own land. I don't always live there, but I can still have guns.

Now on the other hand, let's say my brother, who doesn't own land, can't have a gun, unless I, or some other land holder give permission to shoot on my land.

Thats where the law is wrong. Recreation shooters should be allowed to have guns, provided they abide by the laws, such as, where and how they are stored, and of cause, where they are discharged.

I'm surprised it took this long for the 'if only other people in the audience had guns' argument to come up.

Let's play that one out. You're in a darkened cinema. Suddenly, someone starts shooting. You pull your gun. So do thirty other people. Which of those people do you shoot? And with thirty guns going off in one cinema, how many more innocent people will be shot?

I'll take my chance with one nutter with a gun, rather than one nutter and a roomful of well-meaning but inexperienced shooters.

Arjay, that's not really true, for example the White Army behaved just as atrociously as the Reds in the Russian civil war and completely alienated the people, the Communist death squads who opposed the Wehrmacht also robbed, raped, tortured and liquidated hundreds of thousands of their own people, the Anarchists and Communists committed horrific atrocities on the "fifth column" in the Spanish Civil War and between the 1960's and the end of apartheid the ANC killed twice as many Black South Africans as the SA Security forces.
You could in theory raise responsible fourth generation armed groups and force detente with a Western style state but merely arming citizenry who are already distrustful of and alienated from each other would be a disaster, as it's proven to be in the U.S, South Africa and elsewhere.

Anthonyve -"I support the GST because it just seems to me to make more sense to tax consumption than to tax effort. Under an income tax, the harder we work the more tax we pay, which is punishing behaviour we want more of."

Fair enough, I agree that on the face of it this appears as a good rational, however I don't recall at the time that it changed the amount of my take home pay. I repeat that rather than reducing existing tax rates the government imposed GST. to make up the shortfall caused by de-regulation. I regret that I cannot substantiate this premise with facts and figures but it is worth noting that the U.K. and N.Z also introduced consumption taxes soon after embracing the tenents of neo-liberal free market ideology.

A more cynical view suggests that the Hawke-Keating regime knew that de-regulation would put many people out of work and so along with tarrif reduction reduce the tax base but that this was of no consequence because ultimately a GST. would be imposed to make up the shortfall.
Den71

Crickey, only away for two days & all these posts ?
Ludwig,
I don't have a hang-up about Academics. In fact I don't think I have any hang-ups at all. Why is pointing out facts a hang-up ? Do you what a hang-up actually is ?
Loudmaouth,
Not all people kill people. Not all guns are used to kill people. But many people are killed by a combination of guns and people, people using guns to kill other people. Wobbles has got that right as usual.
What exactly is then that doesn't include cars in those statistics ? I have yet to hear the do-gooder brigade burr up about cars, after all, they kill & maim more people that just about most civil wars.
For your info, there are more idiots with cars legally on our roads than there are registered gun owners idiots & responsible combined.
get your perspectives right people.

Indi, you wrote::

<< if we were to keep the academics out of everyday life policy making we would achieve sensible policies towards a better society. >>

Sounds like a hang-up to me.

I don’t wish to get offside with you, my good OLO mate, but you have basically condemned all academics as d!ckheads, which really is a tad extreme… and which does suggest a certain degree of hanguppedness!