When I look around me and see parents smacking their toddlers, I don’t understand the lack of patience parents exhibit. There is no time, no patience, and so much frustration and anger.

Is it logical to agree that because the parents cannot cope properly with parenthood the children should have to suffer?
No, if parents cannot cope with parenthood without resorting to violence of any kind, money should be spent to educate them.

Is Mise, I think it is far more likely that the street-rioting, bottle-throwing mob come from neglectant or violent homes than that they come from safe and non-aggressive homes where they are respected, properly guided and listened to.

Ranier, thanks for that link, I’ll have a proper look on that site tomorrow.

RObert, “The debate should be how to best equip parents, teachers and others to make wise and helpful choices as they discipline children.” And that’s what I am hoping the government will spend some money on- to equip parents and teachers.

I was also hoping the government would be smart enough to properly organise parental leave so both parents can schedule their time with the children.
Reduced work hours, more flexible hours, the ability to work part-time are all things the government could encourage and support if they are serious about good parenting. The first thing a parent needs is time!

children are as individual as their parents.

Governments are equipped to produce standard formats and processes which ignore a childs "individuality".

The best thing a government can do is to support parents in bringing up their children and stop trying to dictate to parents how to bring up their children. How? well stop offering financial incentives to run aways to run away. Stop the bureaucrats from interfering in the lives of ordinary folk. When one of my daughters said "If you smack me I will call the child services" - i simply said - "hey let me call them for you and we can pack your bag in the time it will take for them to come and collect you".

I love my daughters like any loving father does.
They love me because I gave them the security of unconditional love. "Unconditional love" means never to be traded or taken away. It does not mean no-rules or no discipline. Children test their boundaries and without boundaries firmly in place, there is noting for them to test against.

"Judicial discipline" is just that, firstly "judicial" and if that means "corporal" discipline as well, them so be it.

A disciplining parent will love and care for their own child more than an undisciplined bureaucrat or official of the state, doing a job, will ever do.

Nothing there i would not disagree with Sir Col, but how do we police abuse?

Nothing there i would not disagree with Sir Col, but how do we police abuse?

Between 2000-2003 the type of abuse reported by the AIHW were:

10% sexual abuse

28% physical abuse

34% emotional abuse

28 neglectd

These of course would overlap with each other for every case.

These statistics cannot be ignored simply because we individually wnat to feel smug about our own styles of parenting.

hi all,

aside from the issue that assaulting children is bad for them
and society
and is also a crime in this country

yesterday a very young couple, with baby and pram,
went past my windows, arguing, and so on, the gentleman, well kid really, sounding off at his girlfriend in an agressive manner, with baby in tow in pram ?

recently I was next to a family ? older parent with boyfriend, both were grandparents, ..........a grown up son with 3/4 children,
and a girlfriend with a new baby to someone else, who did herion,
and she left the new born with him, because he hit her, and went back to this fellow

all day, night, and continually .. verbal abuse, and severe
emotional abuse, TAB gambling and so on.... 24 hours a day, in a one bedroom flat with 8 people on and off....

perhaps its more about, can you afford a child to begin with

I figured they cost $10,000 per year per child....

just a wee thought....

regarding society looking after the family, there was no hope of that
in any direction..... except perhaps for them going to school

the 6/7 year old, thought already you made money gambling...
horses TAB and all that.....

children are precious, and also cost financially, and contraception might be a worthwhile
media exercise....

JHH

Rainer, thanks for the info. Similar to what I'd seen previously through the Abused Child Trust (http://www.abusedchildtrust.com.au/./facts.htm) and an alterante path to info I've referenced previously.

Hunting through a report from the AIHW website (http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/cws/cpa04-05/cpa04-05.pdf) I came across some interesting comment on substantiations

"Although the outcomes of investigations varied across the states and territories, in all jurisdictions a large proportion of investigations were not substantiated; that is, there was no reasonable cause to believe that the child was being, or was likely to be, abused, neglected or otherwise harmed. For example, 62% of finalised investigations in New South Wales and South Australia and 54% in Western Australia were not substantiated (Table 2.2).
The proportion of investigations that were substantiated ranged from 38% in New South Wales and South Australia to 74% in Queensland."

The wording and proportion took me by surprise and it made we aware how cautious we all need to be taking potted looks into other peoples lives and making assumptions based on those looks.

The stats are also a reminder of just how prevalent emotional abuse is. Emotional abuse seems to be such a hard one to qualify and police.
What in one context might be harmless banter in another situation can be emotional abuse, somuch depends on how well equiped the recipient is to deal with it.

R0bert