Yes OUG Soros and others used CDS to attack Greece.According to Pericles they were insurance against default.Why did the people have to pay if there was insurance against default?

You still have not answered my question Pericles.Where did all this derivative money come from to be 20 times the GDP of the planet? The world has a GDP of $60 trillion and derivatives $1200 trillion.How can we have financial insurance polices worth 20 times more than all the goods and services on the planet? Who created all this money from nothing?

It is Wikipedia's explanation, one under god, not mine.

>>so lets begin with explaining perries/quote.<<

If you want to take issue with it, talk to Wikipedia.

Or ask Arjay to explain.

But while I'm here, I'll just point out the most obvious flaw in your argument.

>>so what they swapping..is derived from other financial instrunments{THAT HAVE DEFAULTED}<<

Not so. At the time that the CDS is entered into, the loan is not in default. All that has happened is that the risk of default is factored into the spread.

While it is possible that some scavengers might buy up a bunch of bad loans with the intent of strong-arming some money out of the defaulters, i) they would pay only a couple of cents on the dollar, and ii) they would use methods not sanctioned by the banking code of conduct, in order to get their money.

barkleys bank has been fiddling its cost of money
geez am i surprised

yes arjay they supposedly had insurance
but a swap is a swap...[so me swapping my irrecoverable debt..for yours...gives us a teqnical trick...ALLmost as if we both sold something of value..but being irrecoverable debt to begin with..its insuring a ghost

win win
but as clever as charging weightless c02 gas
by the ton...[how much of nuthing makes not nuthing][a ton]

i value my debt..plus deefaulted cost
you value your debt plus defaulted charges

and we swap it..[teqnicly we both traded nuthing..for somethin

but when it comes undone..
we see its derived off spin

pers/quote..""At the time that the CDS is entered into,
the loan is not in default.""

im not talking about loans
just defaulted credit..sitting dead on the books
ALL OF A SUDDEN HAVING A VALUE*..[yet still only DEFAUTED DEBT*]

debt you couldnt recover!
for debt they couldnt recover!
traded equally cause its equally valueless
its just booked in as millions of nuthing for a clear loss..[allready re-claimed on taxes]

how serious can we take your words
if your begin point is defaulted debt is value and gold aint

""All that has happened is that the risk of default
is factored into the spread.""

its defaulted long ago
it was deemed irerecoverable..
factering a 'risk of default'..is a joke

the debt was defaulted..long ago...
we just swaped..as if of value..dead asset-stripped debt notes
mixed in with other rubbish sold as AAA+gold..when its a clear scam.

rose the dead
made the dead be the value
that conned the living into austerity hell

well done son..

OUR banks strongly support the ETS since they will have another deivative to trade and rip us off.I wonder if Pericles believes AGW because it is a convenient way of ripping off yet again.

You can easily tell what people re about by what they refuse to debate.

If we put a 1% tobin tax on all the banks derivaties of $16.8 trillion,then our Govt would collect $ 168 billion in tax.Gillard would not need a CO2 tax.

Ah,the problem being no one wants to buy a derivative that has no worth backing it and we have bailed these bastards out.

This is getting a little silly, Arjay.

>>OUR banks strongly support the ETS since they will have another deivative to trade and rip us off<<

In what way are you, or anyone, being "ripped off" by derivatives? How does the transaction adversely affect you, in any way, shape or form?

>>Ah,the problem being no one wants to buy a derivative that has no worth backing it and we have bailed these bastards out.<<

Who is "bailing out" derivatives? If there are so many of them around, with such a massive value on them, how can they be "bailed out" anyway?

You are discussing financial instruments of which you know precisely nothing. Which is why none of your statements about them bears any relation whatsoever to reality.