Seems like the Sports Minister is unhappy about Lingerie football. I don't disagree with her but fail to see the difference between scantilly dressed women's tennis players or sprinters. It also seemed the thing to do a few years ago for Australian women's teams to get their gear off for calendars in order to make a few dollars. No outcry about that. Sad fruit of a secular society however their seems to be very little consistency from the Minister or others on this issue.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/the-l-word-lingerie-football-a-cheap-degrading-perv-kate-lundy-says/story-e6freuy9-1226365362713

Ancient sports were performed naked, in specific homage to the "gods".

I suggest a return to this historical benchmark for athletic conduct.

rusty.

Rusty writes

'I suggest a return to this historical benchmark for athletic conduct.'

I suppose the Beach Volleyballers are pretty close to that.

Dear runner,

I agree with you. There isn't much difference between lingerie football and scantly clad tennis players. They are both great to watch.

However, male tennis players generally are not covered more than female tennis players. Doesn't that bother you?

There are horrific injuries and great violence in male American football. Retired professional football players have lower life expectancy than the general population. Death, paraplegia, concussion and other horrific consequences result from the collision of large and violent men. Military metaphors contribute to the atmosphere of violence. Victors are heroes. One team crushes or annihilates anothr team. Fans have been known to riot or even kill. In many ways professional sports is an obscenity. The team contact sports encourage mayhem on and off the field. Some players are simply thugs who get drunk and bash and rape off the field.

The Olympics have evolved to be an orgy of commercialism and nationalism. Government support for the extravaganzas should be eliminated.

I'm sure all precautions will be taken to eliminate violence from lingerie football. Players will be selected for beauty and athletic ability. Friendly games played in an atmosphere of sexuality with no violence or hostility sound great to me. Lingerie football is preferable to most athletic competitions.

david f

you ask

'However, male tennis players generally are not covered more than female tennis players. Doesn't that bother you?'

No but I wonder why the Sports Minister is so outraged. Is this expected of her or is she giggling privately and spitting chips publicly.

Also I largely agree with you about football. Although I enjoy watching the skill it is a game full of thuggery and results in far to many injuries. Many fans especially treat it as a religion and turn to violence at the drop of a hat. Soccer is usually the worse in Australia and a lot of that violence is due the ethnic wars.

runner,

I'd never heard of this until your link.

It seems just another step along the road in commercialisation of anything and everything.

We spend half our time following instinctual and socially constructed behaviours, and the other half dissecting them and trying to make sense of it all, congratulating ourselves one minute and castigating ourselves the next.

In fact, I think I'm having an existential moment.

I agree with all the posters.

I have talked to a number of women who say they watch ARL because they like the short shorts the players wear. Now that can't be sexual exploitation can it ?

Somehow I doubt whether either Kate Lundy or runner would be in the target demographic for the LFL. As such, their opinion as to its merits/demerits counts for nothing.

Personally, I find programmes such as The Biggest Loser, The Farmer Wants a Wife, Please Marry My Boy, Aussie Ladette to Lady, Aussie Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, Dating in the Dark - and a whole host of others - to be bordering on obscene, and an insult to the intelligence of the Australian people.

But then again, I am not in their target demographic, so my opinion is irrelevant.

As it happens, I have seen the LBL on cable a few times, it occasionally appears on the sports channel in the pub. My impression is that it is entirely harmless, and certainly no more "cheap and degrading" than an episode of "Being Lara Bingle".

Dear runner,

Again I agree with you. Ethnic hatreds are exacerbated by professional sports. There is a temendous amount of money and feeling in the religion of sport so nothing will be done about it. I enjoy watching American football even though the results are horrific.

Of course the social consequences of casinos are also horrific, but there is a buck to be made there so government won't touch it. Wilkie tried, but the NSW members are in the pocket of the gambling (not gaming) industry.

The difference between lingerie football and other sports where people are scantily clad, is that LF is designed "specifically" for sexual titillation (it's based on the old "quasi" lesbian thing of 2 nearly undressed women "battling" each other; mud wrestling for example).

Therefore it's TOTALLY different from legitimate sport. It in fact takes sexuality back to the Dark Ages. It's just quasi prostitution, with the lingerie girls getting paid from the money the men pay to look at them. It doesn't get dumber than that. Remember, it's designed specifically for sexual titillation, and it's not a real sport. If anyone thinks it is, then they're seriously deluded or simply lack even basic intellectual insight.

Such indignation, FP72E.

>>Remember, it's designed specifically for sexual titillation, and it's not a real sport. If anyone thinks it is, then they're seriously deluded or simply lack even basic intellectual insight.<<

Fortunately, there are still the classic Olympic sports to maintain the fine tradition of non-titillation.

Beach volleyball, for example. Totally non-titillating. Especially when they have to dislodge the sand that has somehow wedged its way into their "swimwear".

Incidentally, where did anyone suggest that LFL is a "real sport"? It is an indoor, for-television, marketing-led reinterpretation of an outdoor stadium sport. Like indoor cricket and five-a-side soccer.

Kate Lundy, our Minister for Sport, Minister for Multicultural Affairs, and Minister Assisting for Industry and Innovation is in danger of creating substantial conflict between her various roles.

As Minister for Sport, she should simply point out that "this is not a sport", and move quickly on.

As Minister for Multicultural Affairs, she might have to cogitate for a while on LBL's significance in the task of welcoming diversity, and acceptance of cultural differences. Then move quickly on.

As Minister Assisting for Industry and Innovation, she might pause for a moment, admire the high level of innovation, and look to exploit industry opportunities to capitalize on LBL's arrival in Australia.

Instead, she just has a public whinge and sulk.

Nice "excuses" pericles.

LF demeans women's sexuality, makes the men who come to gawk look neanderthal and intellectually weak, it's NOT a sport, it's sexual entertainment (harking back to a bygone era of sexuality, where women were kept in place and men paid for them).

Take it off I say!

The Lingerie that is, not the football. Just a shame it's not real footy.

There just seems to be a tendency by the politically correct feminists
to desex women.
I am all in favour of sexy women, after all if they were not we would
not be here whinging about sexy women.
I don't know about you blokes, but still at my age I like looking at
them and remembering other times.

As far as the women on here, I bet you would be a bit miffed if no
men ever looked you over.

After all this all about our nature, it is the way we are built.
Men have been harassing women ever since time began.
It is about time we accepted ourselves as we were created.

davidf

'Of course the social consequences of casinos are also horrific, but there is a buck to be made there so government won't touch it. Wilkie tried, but the NSW members are in the pocket of the gambling (not gaming) industry.'

funny that some people want gambling legislated against ( I agree it causes massive harm) and yet want drugs legalised. So I take it people don't gamble on Lingerie football or do they?

FP72E seems to think theer is a clear distinction between legitimate sport and I take it illegitimate sport. Very fine line me thinks. Would beach volley ballers or tennis players get the crowds and following if the girls were all modest. I doubt it some how, and I certainly don't think they would get the TV money. Why would you choose to watch Sharapova/Williams when you could watch Federer/Nadal if it was tennis you are interested in?

Any piece of clothing can be sexy, with a
quietly passionate woman inside it.

"LF demeans women's sexuality…" Hardly, if anything it demeans men's. Which is why they have to pay money to, as you class it, "look neanderthal and intellectually weak".

Would gender equality be met if there was Jockstrap Football? I'm not sure, but I would hope that there was mandatory depilation.

But I looked at the sport's base rules for you, FP72E, and in LF whilst some positions such as the running and quarterback as well as the centre position are offensive; in its defence are a pair of women, with four more backed to a line or into a corner… And in addition, if it gets too much there is always recourse to the safety position.

But if the three wide receivers are merely euphemisms and not really players you may be right in your assessment of the Lingerie Football League.

Scoring certainly seems problematic as there are no field goals and no punts.

Very sus'… As is taking too much notice of it.

Dear runner,

I think both gambling and drugs should be legal. That does not mean that government should be approving casinos. Funny how you read something other than is written. If individuals want to gamble they should have a right to do so. That does not mean that government should approve casinos.

Beach volleyball. Fantastic.

<< Ancient sports were performed naked, in specific homage to the "gods".

I suggest a return to this historical benchmark for athletic conduct. >>

I’m with you there, Rusty!

.

<< I suppose the Beach Volleyballers are pretty close to that. >>

Runner, on my evening run I ran past beach volleyballers on the Cairns Esplanade yesterday evening. Three young guys showing off their well-toned torsos against two spunky girls in skimpy bikinis. Very unbalanced I thought. I was sorely tempted to join the two babes to even it up a bit (and have a good old perve of course!).

Hey, what is wrong with a bit of SEXXXUALITY being inserted into the sporting arena??

Or I should say…. a bit of female sexuality.

Come on…. men in skimpy football shorts have always been a turn-on for women. I’d reckon that most women watch the footy or thugby for the express reason of perving on males in tight attire that show their genital bulge, if not more information than the average pair of speedos!

So….lingerie football? Yeah BRING IT ON MAN!!

Sport has always been sexualised. Males predominate in the sporting arena. More sexualisation of the female persuasion would just even up the slate a bit.

So again, BRING IT ON MAN!!

Ooow yeah!!

<< Any piece of clothing can be sexy, with a quietly passionate woman inside it. >>

Whooow Lexi!

Do I detect a touch of lesbianistic tendency in your comment?

Ludwig,

I think Lexi was alluding to the fact that a passionate woman could where a hessian sack and still exude that "certain something" above and beyond a lingerie-clad scrubber playing full-forward.

I also think Lexi comes across as a quietly passionate woman.

There are a few of us about : )

(even if we can't spell "wear" :)

Dear Ludwig,

You ask if you detect some lesbianistic comment in
my previous post? Not at all as Poirot explained
so well. However, if I was to turn - it would be
passionate, intelligent, sexy souls like Poirot, that
I'd go for. ;-)

As was pointed out some ancient sports were performed in the nude. This happened in Greece. However, it is inapplicable to lingerie football since spectators of the opposite sex were not allowed. Gymnos is the Greek adjective meaning naked so in Greek your gym suit is your birthday suit.

Greek athletes who prevailed in the olympics were guaranteed generous pensions for life. They were hairs to fortune.

When the Greek Seleucids occupied ancient Palestine they held olympics there. Some Jews by some means attached foreskins to look like the other competitors. Some of those Jews were killed by the Maccabees when they revolted against the Seleucid occupation and Greek culture such as the olympics. In sponsoring the Maccabee games where Jewish athletes compete the Israelis are supporting something similar to the olympics that the Maccabees revolted against.

Why thank you, Lexi : )

On this point, I think the satisfaction men derive from viewing scantily and sexily attired women physically competing with each other is more of a carnal experience.

I don't think men necessarily feel that comfortable with "passion" as a rule - at least not in my experience. I think they feel that passion is liable to be overwhelming and smothering.
Watching women romping around a field in lingerie, scrapping and wrestling with each other, is more of a sensual experience and at a remove from the lure of passion.

<< LF demeans women's sexuality, makes the men who come to gawk look neanderthal and intellectually weak… >>

And men who gawk at Aussie rules footy and thugby DON’T look Neanderthal and intellectually weak, PF72E?

I reckon they absolutely do. Those sorts of sports are complete anathema to me!

They couldn’t look one little bit more unintelligent or primitive if they were watching lingerie football, surely!

<< … it's NOT a sport, it's sexual entertainment… >>

Yes. And what the devil is wrong with that?

<< Gymnos is the Greek adjective meaning naked… >>

Ahh yes david, as in the botanical term; gymnosperm, or naked seed…. and in gymnasium.

Oow, so when you work out in the gym you should by rights do it nudiferously!

Now that WOULD make it worth going!! Well…. only if the young women gym devotees kept going, of course!

Um, where was I before my mind started wandering.

Oh yes, pretty Poirot and sexy Lexi!

So… who is more appealing to the average red-blooded Ozzie bloke like me – air-headed but gorgeous blonde bimbos dressed (or undressed) in lingerie, or passionate intelligent women slightly older women like P and L dressed in a windcheater and jeans or whatever?

Hmmm, how about passionate intelligent women dressed in lingerie! YES!!

How about passionate intelligent women in lingerie playing football?

Oh YEAH. What an amazingly great idea!

Now my mind is REALLY wandering!

Ludwig,

Except that passionate intelligent women wouldn't play football while wearing lingerie - at least, not in public for mass entertainment.

It's always a bit strange, the things that get each gender going. For instance, I'm not sure I approve of suits as they seem to me to be some sort of Western uniform....but I love to see a man in a suit, especially if it's not his usual attire. My daughter was married today and she looked beautiful, but I almost melted when the men came out. They looked so sartorial and positively splendid.

Having said that, the idea of a man playing football in a suit makes as much sense as a woman playing football in lingerie.

*if I was to turn - it would be
passionate, intelligent, sexy souls like Poirot, that
I'd go for. ;-)*

Sheesh, watching THAT would indeed be a turn on :)

<< Except that passionate intelligent women wouldn't play football while wearing lingerie - at least, not in public for mass entertainment. >>

Hwaaaw… how very disappointing! ( :>(

Would they do it in private for my entertainment?

What about if I begged, pleaded, grovelled and offered them lots of money??

Um…. moving right along –

<< My daughter was married today >>

Fantastic!

Congratulations to her and hubby and to you!

What a wonderful occasion.

Ludwig,

Thanks for your kind wishes. It was a wonderful occasion - just a smallish gathering, simple and perfect. And apparently it's not losing a daughter, it's gaining a son-in-law - an American one to boot, from Missouri.

Now about this football. I'll let you buy the lingerie if you let me show off my torpedo. I used to be dab hand (or should that be foot?) at kick-to-kick in primary school. That is, until grade 7 when I realised that being landed on by several boys in pursuit of a Sherrin was likely to damage my finer points (so to speak). Reluctantly I had to give it up in favour of intellect and passion : )

Yabby,

Settle down : )

<< I'll let you buy the lingerie if you let me show off my torpedo >>

Deal!!

Hope I can show off my torpedo too! {{ :> )

I'm expecting runner to arrive at any moment with a bucket of water : )

Back to the original post. What business do we have in having a sports minister? The only sports government should finance are the sports in schools, and that should be under education. Parks can have places for cricket and other sporting activities. Outside of that I see no role for government in sport.

It is great that people get pleasure from playing or watching sports. They should pay for it. No stadiums, olympic games, sporting clubs or the like should be any business of the government.

Dear Poirot,

Congratulations on your daughter's marriage.
I imagine that the wedding would have been simply
beautiful.

I also love a man in a suit (actually
a tux) - ala Daniel Craig (James Bond) type.
Women look good in tuxs as well. I love mine.
I have a black and a white one.
But of course they are not - for playing football in -
other more interesting games come to mind. And as
for playing football in lingerie? There's more
challenging and interesting activities to choose from.

Dear Ludwig,

Like Poirot, I would willingly entertain you with
a sport (and dress) of my choice -
and the smile on your face would
be reward enough. :-)

Davidf,

I see the performance of sports nude as an overarching principle we should embrace and continue while I see the exclusion of women from both competing or observing to be less fundamental - a mere matter of local traditions that our current law would not permit in any case.

We are able to have the best of both worlds in this matter. There is no need to accept the bundle in whole.

Rusty

<< I Like Poirot, I would willingly entertain you with a sport (and dress) of my choice - and the smile on your face would be reward enough. :-) >>

Gee thanks Lexi …………… I think! ( :> /

Thanks for the congrats, Lexi - it was a good day.

Ludwig,

"Gee thanks Lexi..........I think!(:>/"

You sound like you're having second thoughts...

Having successfully quested and won the approval of fair Lexi and Poirot, Ludwig sat down with his head in his hands and thought, "What have I got myself into?"

: )

Dear passionate Poirot and foxy Lexi,

Yes… what on Earth HAVE I got myself into here?? ( :>#

I’d like to take you up on your offers, but um…. I wonder if I’d get out alive?!?!?!

Crikey, it is no wonder I have been single for 23 years!

Females are just SCARY!!

Never mind, Ludwig.
There's a lesson in all this. And that is: that passionate intelligent women are far more intimidating to the average male that a football-toting bimbo in lingerie.

: )

Dear Poirot,

Passionate intelligent women, intimidating or not, may look quite appealing in lingerie. There is a song about the intellectual strip teaser which refers to Gypsy Rose Lee.

I interviewed Leslie Howard
I interviewed Noel Coward
I interviewed the great Stravinsky
But my greatest achievement
Is the Interview I had
With the star who worked for Minsky
I met her at the Yankee Clipper
And she didn't unzip one zipper
I said "Miss lee you are such an artist.
Tell me why you never miss.
What do you think while you work?"
and she said, "While I work
My Thought go something like this."

REFRAIN 1

Zip! Walter Lippman wasn't brilliant today
Zip! Will Sorayan ever write a great play?
Zip! I was reading Schopenhauer last night
Zip! and I think that Schopenhauer was right.

I don't want to see Zarina
I don't want to meet Cobina
Zip! I'm an intellectual
I don't like a deep contralto
Or a man whose voice is alto
Zip! I'm an heterosexual.
Zip! I took intellect to master my art
Zip! Who the hell is Margie Hart

REFRAIN 2
Zip! I consider Dali's paintings passé
Zip! Can they make the Metropolitan pay?
Zip! English people don't say clerk, they say clark
Zip! Anybody who says clark is a jark!

I have read the great Kabala
And I simply worship Allah
Zip! I am suck a mystic.
I don't care for Whistler's Mother
Charlie's Aunt and Shuber's brother
Zip! I'm misogynists
Zip! My intelligence is guiding my hand
Zip! who the hell is Sally Rand?

Dear David F.,

You're absolutely right - Gypsy Rose Lee was a passionate,
intelligent woman. What she wore and how she discarded it
created fascination. She turned sex into playful
entertainment. However she was one of a kind. A world class
entertainer who happened to be working in burlesque.

The following epigraph taken from Karen Abbott's biography
of Gypsy Rose is very apt:

"May your bare ass always be shining."

Human nature represented by Ludwig's reaction (even though our banter was all playfully tongue-in-cheek) is perhaps best represented by this quote from novelist, Violet Trefusis - lover of Vita Sackville-West - and a"scandalous woman" of early last century.

"In each human being there is an emergency exit: that is, the cult of the self under a magnitude of manifestations, which means that when an obsession becomes too violent, you can escape, vanish with a snicker."

Ah well, there was I, hoping that this could be turned into a bout
of lingerie mud wrestling! Perhaps you girls are a bit old for
that :)

While we're on the subject of pure magnetism and sexuality....

Rather out of character, I've been watching The Voice.

and when I look at Seal.......

...............................

Maybe not over the hill yet, Yabby : )

<< There's a lesson in all this. And that is: that passionate intelligent women are far more intimidating to the average male that a football-toting bimbo in lingerie. >>

Hwaaw Poirot! Bimbos in lingerie are so horny! But boring if they’ve got no brains. I was just asking for too much: a bit of ball-crunching beauty AND a smidgeon of intelligence! (:>/

But sheesh, there is just something about the female psyche that seems to make it impossible for them to have brains and not want to do really bad things to you!!

Mind you, the one I married all those years ago had no brains at all and still did very bad things. Maybe it’s just all women that are like that!

Anyway, after more than two decades of being single, I have no regrets at all about it. Maximised freedom, No entrenched relationship issues. No sprogs. Wonderful. I couldn’t recommend it more highly! ( :>)

Dear Poirot,

Seal? Oh yes please!
A man who appeals to a woman's imagination
is the one who gets her.

Over the hill?
I'd rather be over the hill than under it!
But seriously - not yet.

Ludwig,

Fair enough - You sound like a man who is happy with life!

Lexi,

Just for you : )

http://www.thevoice.com.au/videos.aspx?videoid=d47cbb5c-c532-454a-ab99-494ff3054503

*Seal? Oh yes please!
A man who appeals to a woman's imagination
is the one who gets her.*

That is ok Lexi, you can but imagine.
The gossip goes that Seal is actually rather
friendly with Delta, so it seems he has cut
me out of my imagination :)

Dear Poirot,

Thank You for the link.
I did watch the Seal Team sing that song live
with him. Sheer magic!

Dear Ludwig,

It's hard to move on from a negative experience
but it's good that you've done it and are happy.

Dear Yabby,

I would be most surprised if Seal was not interested
in Delta. She's very similar to his ex-wife - Heidi
Klum, the model.

Seal is a man who obviously loves all women and that
in itself is very attractive to women. He seems to
have all the virtues that women admire as well as
all of the vices. Like a good cup of strong coffee -
rich, warm, and the hint of being totally satisfying.

This character Seal has got sex appeal??

( :< |

Wow, you women are weird!

Well, at least some of his music ain’t too bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4tTzan4dk4&feature=related

I also like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFYZj9noPiM

Hehehe!

Ludwig,

It's kinda hard to explain....but the guy just oozes sex appeal - the way he moves, the way he dresses, the way he sings.....

The way he dances....

http://www.thevoice.com.au/news/8455333/emma-louise-dances-with-seal

Dear Poirot and Ludwig,

I have never heard of Seal or the young woman who was singing in the clip. Stopped listening to pop music when the Beatles and Elvis appeared. Thought that was a teenage thing but have the impression that neither of you are teenagers or are you?

*It's kinda hard to explain*

Well Poirot, I guess we can just call it primordial instinct or
Nature's way of ensuring that you women land up pregnant :)

<< Well Poirot, I guess we can just call it primordial instinct >>

Yeah Yabby, just like you and me liking lingerie-adorned football-playing and mud-wrestling big-boobed blonde bimbos and being a tad freaked out by strong-willed intelligent females!

Yes davidf, I’m a teenager. Can’t you tell by the way I write??

Been one now for forty years!!

David f,

Well actually it's a curious thing.....that as the years passed by that I became more likely to listen to Radio National, to ponder aesthetics, culture, politics,......blah blahety, blah....

In short, becoming the sort of strong-willed intelligent female who is likely to freak men like Ludwig out : )

But my son saw some ads for The Voice and wanted me to watch it. So I did, and even though the ads are a pain, the quality of most of the performances has been high.

Yabby is spot on regarding physical "attraction" - but Seal does possess that certain something above and beyond pure brawn. I don't get the same buzz just from watching footballers on the field.

As a rule, I tend to find that a man's attractiveness to me is enhanced by his intelligence and attitude.

Dear Ludwig,

Part of you sure sounds teenage to me. Part of you sounds very grown up. There is a decided incongruity. The two aspects don't fit together. Of course they don't have to.

Most teenagers aren't concerned with uncontrolled population growth. At least I don't think they are.

Dear Poirot,

I didn't know that you were female. However, you sounded intelligent especially when you disagreed with me. When I became aware that you were female your intelligence made you an attractive female.