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The Forum > General Discussion > Renewable energy, but where will our export dollars come from.

Renewable energy, but where will our export dollars come from.

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A very good question 99, I like it.

Do you have an answer?
Posted by spindoc, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 9:32:03 AM
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I would like to turn the original question around with a hypotheticial, but not a terribly far fetched one.
Let's set aside the whole global warming issue for a moment and focus just on economics.
There's ample evidence that all over the world huge amounts of money are being invested in developing cost effective non-polluting renewables; wave, wind, solar, geothermal, the list is endless.
If we look at how far technology has come in recent decades, then isn't there a good chance that some of these research projects will suceed and deliver low cost, non-polluting alternatives?
Surely, the rest of the world is going to say, "well, if these alternatives don't cost us any more than coal, but by using them we reduce pollution and remove the health problems associated with coal burning, (asthma, etc) then let's go for it."
In that scenario, Australia will be left dependent on a product for which there are no customers regardless of how much we've got left in the ground.
Now, I'm not saying that this will happen, but I am saying that it certainly could happen.
Shouldn't we be hedging our bets by such strategies as ensuring that we are part of the alternatives industry, maintaining our manufacturing skills, and so on?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au
Posted by Anthonyve, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 10:38:25 AM
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Further to the comment I just posted, I think this is also part of the answer to the question posed by 99.
There's no doubt that huge effort and money will go towards cleaning up brown coal, and it would be wonderful to see success.
Part of the motivation will surely be the scenario I've described as well as the carbon tax.
Changing generation technologies will never be cheap, so, if clean coal did succeed in matching renewables marketing advantage, (i.e. cleanliness), then there would be no incentive for power generators to invest in the technology changes that would have to go with moving to an alternative form.
I feel that our governments are justified in putting money into clean coal technology research as if it comes up trumps, then Australia will get a big leg up down the track when the competition from clean, cheap alternatives ratchets up.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au
Posted by Anthonyve, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 10:46:08 AM
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Anthonyve, you gave the evidence, just came to the wrong conclusion. After 10s of billions of dollars of tax payer money has been wasted, we are still no closer to alternative energy, of any real use, than when we started.

The only idiots left, who think any of the wind/solar technology will become adequate to replace coal/nuclear, are the Poms & Greenies. Even then, I doubt most real greenies believe in their heart any of these things will work, they simply live in hope.

When the Germans & the Danes give up on the fools errand, & start backing away, you have to realise it just "don't bl00dy work" in reality.

As for coal exports, a very large chunk of this is coking coal. This is not used for power generation or heating as such, but steel making. About the only viable replacement for this is charcoal. Would the greenies prefer we chopped down forests to make charcoal, or use the coal out of the ground?

579/Antho please explain the reason for cleaning up brown coal, when the result is only the same as black coal, as it's mined, without the trouble.

We will get alternative power, but not from wasted tax payer dollars, thrown at academia. It will come out of left field.

Imagine academia trying to overcome the problem of horse poo in 1900s cities. They would still be experimenting in ways of cleaning up/using the stuff. It was private enterprise who came up with the answer, the horseless carriage, the motor car.

If you reckon that answer would ever have come out of government funded & directed research, you are kidding yourself. Alternative power will be no different.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 12:52:15 PM
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Hi Hasbeen,
You're not one to let the facts get in the way of a good theory, are you.
First, the cost of solar cell sourced power is falling dramatically.
http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/view/19395/sunshot-solar-pvs-falling-costs/
Second, Spain has completed a successful pilot solar plant that indicates that solar energy costs will be lower than predicted for scaled up plants.
http://www.inquisitr.com/207572/spanish-solar-power-station-works-even-at-night/
Third, Portugal has built a trial wave generation plant based on Scottish technology that looks extremely promising.
http://www.pelamiswave.com/
I could go on and on citing real live operations that are steadily chiseling away at alternative energy costs, but, hey, that would be just adding a few more facts, which you don't seem interested in.
So, you go ahead and live in your fool's paradise, believing that the world of the twenty first century will be the same as the world of the twentieth century.
I understand that change is scary for some folks.
But I urge you to try to accept its inevitablility anyway.
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au
Posted by Anthonyve, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 1:16:19 PM
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579, we are a small country (population wise) with a large appetite ad as sc, we rely on exports to provide our lifestyles.

Without exports, we will fail.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 1:53:24 PM
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