Dear davidf,

A God complex is present in most Westerners though few would care to admit it. It comes with the living of extremely privileged lives in comparison to the bulk of humanity, a kind of obesity I suppose. I'm certainly afflicted as are 99% of posters on OLO.

My only saving grace is that I am aware of it, they do say if you know you are insane you really aren't.

You are correct regarding the educating of women as a great driver for limiting family size, but may I politely point out you appear to be failing to connect some dots.

Are they educating themselves so that davidf's world has fewer people in it? Hardly, they are doing it to improve their lot, to have a greater chance at a higher paying job, to then be able to afford the consumables that we are so proliferate with.

It is that the manufacture of these items are using finite resources, poisoning our ecosystems and requiring the clearing of habitat for stock and mono-cultures.

It is a race between raising living standards, therefore lowering birth rates to below replacement, before the depletion of resources causes those standards to dramatically decline.

There is an area near us called the Enfield Forest, a gold mining area previously sporting a couple of schools plus houses for over a thousand people. Every tree was removed to supply the mining industry and timber had to be railed in from the Otways to meet the demand.

There are very few remnants left. You might find the odd base to a chimney and a few old bottles. The trees have all returned and the area is now a State Forest. The healing of the scars happens in the blink of a geological eye. Our little blimp in the species record will hardly be felt although what climate change will bring is an open question.

However the question of what we want for our children and grandchildren is one of the few with universal currency. We need to keep asking it of each other and our leaders.

Dear csteele,

Of course women don’t get educated so my world will have fewer people. However, educated women are less likely to have as many children as their less well educated sisters.

Educated people have more internal resources to fill their lives than less educated people. Aldous Huxley in his book, “Brave New World”, imagined a world with different classes. The most educated were the alphas and the least were the epsilons as I remember. The most educated had fewer desires for material objects and could live life more cheaply since they were more satisfied to read books, make music, enjoy nature and engage in intellectual pursuits which cost much less than the amusements pursued by the epsilons who found greater joy in amassing material objects, gambling, drugs, drinking and in other pursuits that require money. The alphas lived simply with full lives setting the agenda for society while the epsilons were happy with their expensive toys.

My daughter is an example of what I am talking about. She has a number of intellectual accomplishments. She is fluent in several languages, can read medieval French and Italian, is a good musician, gardens, can whip up great meals from cheap ingredients gathered from her garden and is a mother of two children. She turned down jobs in advertising, the diplomatic service and banking to work with culturally deprived children to give them a better start in life. I am especially proud of her. Advertising, the diplomatic service and banking were open to her because of her knowledge of foreign languages, her literary ability and high intelligence. They all involve lying, and I feel good that she is doing what she is doing.

I think many highly educated women have made similar choices.

The same is true for men. Those with greater inner resources aren’t generally as dependent on material goods for their fulfilment.

My daughter’s good life does not depend on having quantities of material goods. Once a person has moved beyond poverty they may have enough if they have inner resources.

Perhaps you haven’t connected the dots.

What a stupid and conceited post.

*Once a person has moved beyond poverty they may have enough if they have inner resources.*

David F, you have to see the big picture. Its not wether your
daughter buys a few extra trinkets, it hardly matters. Fact is
that billions around the globe are moving from the country to the
city, be that in Asia, South America or Africa.

As they do, they want houses, roads, cars, appliances, schools,
hospitals, entertainment, electricity, water and all the rest.

Multiply that out globally, along with another quarter of a million
extra people born a day and its a big issue which is clearly not
sustainable.

Dear Yabby,

You are right. It's not just what an individual wants. The number of individuals is exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet. We can either get down to a sustainable number by rational compassionate methods or the old methods of war, pestilence, famine and death will do it for us. We can still try to leave simpler lives which consume fewer resources.

One approach does not negate the other.

Hasbeen Hi.

planet 3, "like most greenies, there is no fun, & therefor no joy in your soul".....

Iam not going to dignify that with an answer....lol....what ever floats your boat matey:)

cc