Hi if anyone could fill out my survey, I am studying the live cattle trade for politics year 12 and it is a major part of my assessment. Thoughtful answers please :)

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CTC6JRJ

i dislike in confidence info
that will set adgendas...or otherwise be used
to do what?

one page?[only too easy]

male[gender]
age[lol]
3[yes watched a bit of the first one]
4[yes aware of SOME of the media's issues]
5[do you believe the cattle’s welfare..should continue to be compromised?]..loaded question

no means of gaining informed comment
but once you know im one or the other
who knows that?

6..Animals Australia say
that this has been proposed before..[stunguns]

Do you Believe:
Stun guns..and policies will solve it?

all the laws in the world
cant change..what people do
enforcing them is impossable
able to be subverted by adgenda's

7.. Another debate..is whether the cows""..

i thought they were castrated bulls[ie steers]

cows?

""should be killed..more ethically in Australian abattoirs
then sent oversea""

nice idea
but they dont got refrigerators

they want local jobs..not driving
on poor roads..delivering frozen carcuss
into unrefrigerated custom,.

""rather than putting the animals
through the stress of the live shipment.""

""Do you agree with this statement?""
in an ideal world..sure,..

but onto barely civilised people
[it gets close to implying racist bias
[we kill *neater..than you][were better killers]

then they loose the other resources
and the jobs refining..'product'..like render blood skins hooves horns

oh i get it
your duplicating civilisation
making consumers..by taking away their jobs?

eat processed foods[processed here
bought there..by work/working..[on what?]
you just took their raw asset..their job.

I have completed your survey Lauren.

Cheers

im normally against surveys
[cause these innocent questions...go onto official records]

i note the link
goes to a 'survey' site
and that you..[likely]..had to virtually..sign over
all rights 'to the survey'..or its propritory rights

im presuming
the site auto colates the results
by sex age etc..[and what %..is only based on the numbers][as respondants[and there we face the bias inherant in lazey reporting[based on spurilous survey results]

when full frank open
two way..*diss-cuss-ion
can resolve more problem/quicker

we akll got opinion
but opinions can be modified
[by such things as peer presures../via a survey]

a few extra..on one side
or the other..scews the results
yet results...are definitive..in a definitive percentage
[representing all of us][but most of us not in the least]

not reflected [in survey samples
are those..[who couldnt care less]

your survey result..will all be a same opinionated type
[the type that take surveys]..and the silent majority?
well..*[dont matter]

cause we got a %-age

info is money
but discussion solves the problems
often before they start

[how hard is it to sample
wether the animal died under stress...]

the abusers thus are found and re educated
remember..that they do to the least[ie the beast]
they will be doing to the wife and kids[after you take their jobs]

there is so much more
than our civil standards
people only try to 'save the world''..
once they dont need to think..[worry/fret]..*where their next meal comes from..

these poor people..hunt their native wildlife..[for meat]
our cattle..saves them killing unique animals..for meat

at the last topic i suggested a prayer
a simple prayer[autherised by their religeous masters]
can avert much of the cruel[done by ignorants]..

teach them
[dont judge them]

its easy to see something is wtrong
but what is the remedy[cure]..not just the quick fame fix

dont take this personally
but

it often happens...things join together
[in that spirit]..i submit this..[for your research/disscussion/survey..]

Rescue A Sick Horse,
Cage A Sick Human,..Shoot A Healthy Pig

Government Working For You

People so worried about "animal rights"
that they want to put humans in cages:
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/03/24/2049147/idaho-humane-society-sheriff-rescues.html#storylink=misearch

Check the comments.

They pat each other on the back
for caring so much about the horses,
they don't mind at all if the Sheriff defends the horses..*at the expense of the human.

What oath did he swear, anyway?

It occurs to NO ONE to help the people who need help,
even though it would be the best for the animals AND the people.

Even neglected animals[and humans]
usually love their master,..you know?

But this heroic effort by law enforcement..to protect animals
only applies to sick ones,..it seems. ..f the animal is healthy and well cared for, the State will come shoot it and arrest the owner.

Think I am kidding?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/Idaho%20Statesman,%20Natural%20News

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/03/america-ranks-1st-among-western-nations.html

Michael Rivero of http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

Watch entire 2012-03-26 Broadcast here: http://www.justin.tv/michaelrivero/b/312945259
Ken O'keefe of http://worldcitizen.uk.net/
and http://alohapalestine.com/

its worth reading past posts
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/search.asp?cx=partner-pub-0168091956504304%3Ayb7rk7-ta83&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=windows-1252&q=live+cattle+export+ban&sa=Search&siteurl=forum.onlineopinion.com.au%2Findex-general.asp&ref=forum.onlineopinion.com.au%2Fthread.asp%3Fdiscussion%3D5051

the issue arises every now and again
[when other destractions are needed to break the news cycle]

its a great issue like that
today or tommorrow..its in the can..ready to go at a minutes notice

to reset the news cycle

however...back to the subject
[durn i shoulda posted the prayer here]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12112&page=0

oh well im over it

till we walked a mile
on an empty gut..to try to find food ]
for that screaming child..[children]..and the wife
or your village

we cant cast stones
our grandparents thought worse
[they treated humans..like beasts]

and their beasts much worse
[i recall when you had to break the beast leg's
after you caught it..[not kill it..cauise the meat would spil before you got it home

[ok beast is a high call.
but they break wings of fowl;...we truelly are nasty
mabe greenies are right..annilate the lot..[of the human race]

the prayer was so good
[i just fail to recall it]
it basicly advised the beast there is a god
we need food..and he now can evolve spiritually into a higher incarnation..[all hurts will be relieved]

[prepare to be birthed...
into your next life][as best suits your evolved nature]

god supports all living our lives
that we do to the beast..wwe do to god

occurs to me
many dont believe in re-incarnation

they forget the king in the bible
who was a beast in the field for 8 years

or of the chrisna 'god's'
turned into trees

it makes sense that spirits..
need to work up to 'human..incarnation
and can fall back into the best incarnation

[god gives us the 'life/body'..that best serves our wants
if we got a beastly nature..well here..now your a beast]

we may be entertaining angels unaware
all life is sacred..cause science dont know how it happend
hasnt a theory let alone a name or description..[of the first 'life']

natural selection means science didnt!

evolution is what heppens..
when god grants our base desires

cant you see 'human nature'
often reflexts their [previous beastly..incarnation
ie note angry man..see his previous beastly nature return]

spirit we are
to spirit we return

teach the animals
their life revieuw..
on the journey..to..their next incarnation..

god bless you
now be free to follow your nature
god will give you..the body that best serves..your spiritual needs

if you yearn for it
yearn no more

take these broken wurds
and heal the wurld..one beast at a time

I did the survey, honestly gave my opinion.
I think animal welfare is of huge importance.
But have no trust in vegans.
Or the suburban house wifes who drive these things.
Man has always eaten meat.
The first was killed and eaten raw.
Maybe one day some animal was eaten after being killed in a fire.
And we learned to cook it.
How did we kill mammoths, with stun guns?
Honestly wish vegans would stop eating vegetables before cooking them.

The thing is, this topic is far too complex for most suburban people to understand and the law of unintended consequences is all over it.

Ban live cattle and you could land up with far more animal suffering then you ever imagined. Only it won't be filmed by the city based vegan groups, as they think that they actually achieved something.

The thing is, even now as it stands, the Northern station numbers are a touch and go affair to keep them viable. Ban live exports and
they won't be able to afford what they need to maintain the cattle.
They will die a miserable death, unseen by those well meaning city folks

survey completed.

Yabby:

You are indeed too kind in your comments!

yabby,
I agree

If Lauren is doing this project for year 12 that means she is 17 or so. Many teens are idealistic and most grow out of it after a bit more life experience and practical living.

Vegans, like the Greens, never seem to have practical concepts. Just hope her teacher of politics is a practical person.

Banjo, yup but its not just teens. Right now some of the farming forums are being flooded by wellmeaning city housewives, who are going to show it to those mean and greedy farmers. Frankly they don't have a clue about the realities of farming, as their comments
show.

So they go to websites like AA, totally misunderstand what some of
figures actually mean and completely misunderstand what its all about.

I'll give you an example. Everyone who has run livestock knows that if you run them in numbers, you will get some deaths. For all sorts
of reasons, from snakebite, lambing issues, bloat, various diseases,
blowflies etc. If you change their diet and put them into a feedlot,
even with all the hay, oats, lupins, minerals and the rest, you will get some losses from things like acidosis, as the rumen adjusts.
You can buffer with bovatec, bicarb of soda etc, but you still get odd cases. So 1% losses in a feedlot and 5% losses in the paddocks,
are commonly accepted figures, unless we introduce medicare for livestock. Livestock vets understand all this, its quite complex.

Yet our city housewives are convinced that the 1% of sheep which have a problem on a ship, are major animal cruelty.

I refuse to fill out such an inept survey.It has no depth of analysis to it and has questions that pander to the inate bias of it's creator.

Here are the answers:

1. Gender? Male

2. Age: 60+

3. Have you watched the ABC Four Corners report last year (2011) by Animals Australia about the cruelty in Indonesian abattoirs?

Some of

4. If not, are you at all aware of the news reports and issues surrounding the live shipping of Australian cattle to countries such as Indonesia?

Yes

5. After the release of the first report about cruelty on four corners, live cattle export was suspended by the Gillard government for 3 months. Considering the $700 million-a-year live export industry pays wages for many farmers and injects wealth into the Australian economy, do you believe the cattle’s welfare should continue to be compromised?

Yes

6. The agricultural minister, Joe Ludwig suggests stun guns can be implemented into Indonesian abattoirs and systems will be put into place to track and monitor animal abuse. Animals Australia say that this has been proposed before and nothing has changed and nothing will change unless all live trade is stopped – a statement backed by multiple volunteers who have witnessed the mistreatment. Do you Believe:

Don’t care

7. Another debate is whether the cows should be killed more ethically in Australian abattoirs then sent overseas rather than putting the animals through the stress of the live shipment.
Do you agree with this statement?

Don't care

8. Any further opinions on the matter?

No

I do not think we can be sure what the author thinks, or that we need to insult her.
But yabby Banjo Steven and was it hasbeen I agree.
Even with yabby, and mine from above, use of the term housewife's.
No chance ever a City animal health and welfare activist can understand the reality's of country life.
Just imagine, if this trade dies, hundreds of thousands of cattle die horrible deaths .
Or we become up to our arm pits in cattle.
Who cares for prawns? I eat a lot of them, boiled to death at sea, too hard for stun guns!
And chooks, hung up side down and their heads cut off!
Who truly cares, lets feed the hungry first

Never been a fan of live export. Should be processed in AU.
Done survey.

Perhaps Lauren could address an issue which more city people might
understand a bit about and where I for once agree with the Greens
and 80% of the public.

Why do the two major political parties insist that we torture some
old people in palliative care, against their wishes, for weeks,
months and years, until they gasp their last breathe, all in the
name of religious dogma.

I filled out your survey. What's your take on this one ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-09/inquiry-launched-after-dugongs-butchered-alive/3879014

579, any chance you have lived in the bush.
Are you informed on the cattle and meat exports, the differences and how we first started our meat exports.
Do you understand the economics behind this part of our exports.
And the religious complications?
We first exported cracker cows,ex dairy cattle to the USA for hamburger mince, this was meat.
And mostly from the east coast, then black baldys, product of milking cows and Heraford bulls.
Out in out back QLD NT, WA SA, these exports are what our customer wants, for now, soon we will need new markets.
Ever thought about a meat export being started up in the true outback? the costs, transport,who would work there while miners pay twice the money else ware.
Do not clutch leftist dreams to your chest in miss placed solidarity.
This issue, if we let it, transfers the pain and suffering, from cattle to our producers.

Yabby, mate, while it may be our young lady thinks as you think she does.
It is counter productive to take to her,remember in our youth, mine for sure, we did not fully understand some issues.
Catch more flys with honey than bitterness.

Belly I have always lived in the country, worked in abattoirs for 15 years, All live export done for anyone was to shut abbs; down.
We killed Hallal, and worn out dairy cows for America, and chilled beef for Japan, and bull meat for russia.
To value add is far better than send live.
I don't like to see animals die uncomfortably, at least they must be supervised, on their slaughter style in foreign countries.
These outback cattle are transported to port, and that is where an export facilities should be. So nothing changes.
My comment was not meant to be political.

That demand for Australian frozen meat in Indonesia has dramatically fallen indicates that this alternative is a pile of dung.

This was a slap in the face for the Indonesians and a foreign affairs disaster.

Fair go, folk.

So it's not a perfect questionnaire, as surveys go.

Yes, it does display some bias, and yes, the question on cattle welfare being compromised is ambiguous.

If laurenrosanna is able to learn from it, and put together a project that in the end is better informed than it was at the start, that is all we need to know. Taking potshots at what you presume are the biases in the survey, or vegans, or "suburban house wifes", or idealistic teens etc. is cheap, and unnecessary.

Give it a rest. Do the survey. Move on.

*Taking potshots at what you presume are the biases in the survey, or vegans, or "suburban house wifes", or idealistic teens etc. is cheap, and unnecessary.*

Pericles, that is very sweet and feelgood of you, but there is
nothing wrong with called a spade a spade, in fact its what good debate should be all about.

Given the massive attempt by AA to influence those urban housewives and so many of them being sucked in, with severe implications to agriculture, its quite reasonable in fact, for agriculture to point these things out. If they were doing everything possible to destroy your livelyhood and accused you of being a cruel, heartless and greedy bugger, I am sure that you would defend your position when the topic came up for discussion and would have more to say, then
just fill out a survey.

If young and idealistic people have been hoodwinked, its quite reasonable to explain why and by whom and to debate the points at issue. In fact, it can only help them further understand the issue
a bit better.

"This survey is not perfect" is a vast understatement.

This survey is designed to elicit a particular response, that is unlikely to reflect the views of the public.

Lauren should just save us all the time and fill it out herself.

Anybody seen the "traditional" killing of a turtle with a poorly aimed concrete block & the cutting up of the beast whilst still alive ?
How about expressing some views on that.

Individual, yup I saw the original story on tv, amazingly cruel.
They were cutting off the turtles flippers whilst still alive.
We had an issue in another meatworks right here, a couple of months
ago, where staff were being really cruel to cattle and bashing pigs to death with a metal bar.

I am all for addressing these issues, all for less cruelty, all for
helping improve animal welfare in the third world as well and we could
do alot. After all, we've just given the Indonesians 20 million $
to help improve their own beef production. Why not spend a part of
that on animal welfare issues and slaughter methods?

Which brings me to my bone to pick with AA and other vegan groups.
They are just so totally focussed on the live trade, perhaps because
it results in lots of donations to their websites, as they are all
rattling the proverbial tin online.

Yet when we look at the more objective data, we see that alot of their
claims are complete nonsense. Most animals actually gain weight on the trip. In some of the ME sheep feedlots, they even have chilled
water available for the sheep, to keep them content.

Yes they don't all use stun guns, however some do. But a quick slit to a sheep's throat and its all over in three or four seconds. I
can only hope that my death will be as quick one day. For in the end, we all face a tragic end, both animals and humans

that reminds me
shark fin soup...[cutting the fins off living fish
then throwing the rest away]...yes that too makes me angry

boiling lobsters/prawns
killing living seeds to make flour

yep so much murder and mayhem
thats why its wise to pray over our food
that died..so we can live

as jesus said
more belessed the lion become man
than the man become lion

so much to get angry about:

by catch..!
dumping

deep oceon vent mining
even...'killing cain toads'

what part re 'thou shalt not murder'

dont ya get?

someone should make them survey questions
[its big news...;soon]

Yabby,
I have witnessed a few turtles being stunned by a blow to the nose/beak before being cut up. This is a reasonably humane practise but not common. It is to keep the blood flowing to clear the flesh.
In that video the blokes were obviously not too concerned as one was even giggling when the other bloke threw the concrete block.
Many indigenous were pretty angry at this themselves.

stevenlmeyer,

SNAP! Same answers as me!

monsanto has rights to pig genes
they are putting presure on pig breeders

everryone puts presures on breeders
but heck show me an investment..that returns 100 fold each year

one sow=factor of 12
one chicken=return on investment times 100
one seed..can grow millions of seed's

life is so amasing[its diversity glories god]

its sameness insults god

we all basicly eat..the same tasteless veg/fruit
but can seasilly grow our own...[in an old chook pen;possum proof]

so muxch good stuff to talk about
why this focus on personalised sin...a poor guy need to account to god

he will get 70 fold return for every kick
lump bump...untill he realises ..its silly

and repents
and then the long lost son return's to love and home

no hommer..but home