Can you believe it, here we are worrying about how the multiculturals of our society may react on out 100th an of Anzac Day.

First, they have stopped Santa from saying HO, HO, HO, they have also banned several cerebrations in our schools, due to THIER religious believes and now they may get upset about us celebrating the much anticipated 100th anniversary of Anzac Day.

May I offer a simple solution to these multicultural ones who are INVITED to call our country home, if you don't like the way we are, LEAVE!

My grand father didn't fight for nothing.

im sorry..but he did
they all did..they died cause govt
isnt abnout defending its people
but business intrest..via colonisation..via war

invade install a dicktraiter
let him..reap the spoil/cop the blame
and your installed autocrats..steal the rest

yep 24 million..just like your pop
[who im presuming 'came home'
guilted into dying

or you go
or get
*the white feather father*

death by war NO MORE*
they died for lies/greed[heck we destroyed germany[then rebuilt it
with slave labours...and people further victimised

germany[we beat them..killed their youth[males]
then the troops went in did their thing

and the rich got richer
war reperations bailouts...lol

no more dead via war
stop the war mongers..[like them 'parades]..in ire/land]
war mongers dont get peace..[so lets stop them whoreshipping dead by war]

the highest cause of death of our youth
many who never 'became father''

you know i love 'you'
and yopur father..its just i hate war

and those sell-inebriating war's glory

war is blood/guts
[cut's/sluts./.yet more off cuts

[that rotted WAR corpse..was a living being
a youth..[male]14.22]..killed in..their prime

scatterd arround like cuts of meat...
sore of war and mindbent gore..plus so much more

Dear rehctub,

Whatcha talking about old chap - which "multiculturals"
are they? Or is this just a poor excuse for an
anti-multicultural rant?

Goodness me!

Santa banned? Not in my neighbourhood.

cont'd ...

As for schools banning certain celebrations due to
certain religious beliefs?

Again - in my neighbourhood - our schools encourage
diversity - and wecome all sorts of religious beliefs.

And as for your grandfather's fight. Has it ever
occurred to you that quite a few "multiculturals,"
fought and died right along his die - fighting for
the same cause?

Shame on you!

Do you realise that the UK is the most "multicultural"
nation in the world? Starting with early history with
invasions from Denmark, Norway, Germany, France, Spain,
Ireland, and the Roman Empire. And in recent history the
influx of hordes of people from the British Empire of
all cultures, religions, and colours.

As for Australia? You used to get in our history books
"The First Fleet arrived. It brought 1000 English convicts."
It didn't. It brought 1000 convicts but they came from a
dozen different countries. As somebody put it so
delightfully. "English jails were no respectors of
nationality."

The first Italian arrived on January 26,1788 - Giuseppe
Tuso. There were people from South Africa, there were people
from Ceylon, from India, from Spain, from Portugal, from
Hungary. So when you say - "multiculturals," - you're
actually referring to people who have been part of this
country along with your grandfather for many generations.
BTW - where did he come from?

And as for fighting alongside of him - I don't think that
he would have questioned whether they were "multicultural"
or not - when he fought. I don't think it would have
made much of a difference to him in battle. Too bad
about his grandson.

Yes Lexi, you do confirm, unfortunately, that these days, only the most stupid of our community go into education.

I don't know where you have been, but many ratbags in education are promoting "happy holiday". Christmas is not to be mentioned.

Now I am an achiest. Never ever believed in any religion, but do not mind others doing so, provided their belief doesn't effect anyone else. We now have jumped up black bearded ratbags doing just that.

After Julia, it may be time to use those base ball bats, in defence of our beliefs, particularly that one about freedom.

Hi Lexi,

Yes, there were Indians and Africans amongst the crews of the ships of the First Fleet. And probably every ship that landed here for the next sixty years or more.

Incidentally, on the first ship to carry Bibles from the printeries in Sydney to the Rev. Kendall at Korororeka, in the Bay of Islands, northern New Zealand (in 1815), there was at least one Aboriginal crew member.

And some sixty thousand Indian troops died at Gallipoli fighting for the English. Some eighty thousand African troops died during the Second World War fighting for against fascism, and for our freedom.

Those people have earned their place here in Australia and we should be grateful for their sacrifices too.

Cheers,

Joe

Correction:

"Some eighty thousand African troops died during the Second World War fighting AGAINST fascism, and for our freedom." Of course.

But to give some lukewarm support to Hasbeen, I'm an atheist as well and I don't mind any particular religious celebrations, or rituals, or songs or dances. As long as everyone in Australia abides by the same laws, recognises the separation of church and state, and the equality of all citizens, men and women, and contributes to our open society, that's fine with me.

Joe

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

Thanks for that. You brought a lump to my throat
and a tear to my eye. I remember my own grandparents
and parents - and how hard they worked and struggled
to make this country their home. The sacrifices they
made. They were part of the Baltic group of people
who were invited to come here by the Australian
Government - as displaced persons - after the Second
World War. They had lost not only their own country
but their family and everything they owned. Yet they
were so grateful nad felt so privileged to call
Australia "home." I was born in this country - as were
my brothers.

Anyway, I find the rants against "multiculturals" offensive.
Its' destructive. It disempowers people by devaluing their
identity. It destroys community cohesion and creates
division in society. It is the opposite of the democratic
principle of equality and the right of all people to be treated
fairly.

Rehctub, I guess you know this song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n552gP9X40&feature=youtu.be

More info and opinions on the ANZAC Day centenary:

http://www.news.com.au/national/fury-at-anzac-day-centenary-divisive-fears/comments-e6frfkvr-1226309777159

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

All Australians are free to follow any religion they
choose, so long as its practices do not break any
Australian law. Australians are also free not to
follow a religion. Australia has secular government
and no official or state religion. Governments treat
all citizens as equal regardless of religion.
Religious laws have no legal status in Australia.
So I don't see the problem. And as I stated earlier -
the schools in my neighbourhood encourage diversity -
and many various celebrations. None of which have
affected the community in any negative way - on the
contrary - it's been interesting learning about other
customs - especially for the kids. And "Ho! Ho! Ho!"
id defintely allowed.

Dear Ludwig,

Thanks for the link. It appears that this is a
storm in a teacup - based on a 2010 Government
Report. The accuracy of which is not founded
on anything substantial. As the link told us -
the Turkish Community fully supports the
celebration of the ANZAC Centenary - and I
would bet that so would all other communities,
were they to be asked. Which is as it should be.

Storm in a teacup - and totally over the top
reaction to something that isn't even
representative of our communities.

Dear God! What an immature nation we really are!

Prialprang,

Compared to ........ ?

This is all fine, as long as certain factions within parts of groups don't have a second agenda - 'allow us our celebrations and our holidays and our food and dance and music and language, and then allow us to apply our social practices, men vis-a-vis women, old vs-a-vis young, as well.'

After all, it could then be argued, "Doesn't the toleration of cultural practices go hand-in-hand with the toleration of the application of all of our beliefs, and the practical consequences of those beliefs ?"

To which we have to strong enough to say, "Well, no. Your cultural practices may not violate any Australian laws regarding social equality, but your social practices, even if based on your religious beliefs, may do so. They will not be tolerated, and get used to it. Live and worship within the laws of Australia."

Cheers,

Joe

Rechtub I had a think about this very early this morning.
It is worth that, thought and consideration.
First who wrote this report, betcha it was not a Muslim or any other Migrant!
Mate you know I am against the idea of multi cultures and separatism in our country.
But you bloke do not think like your dad, how can you say what your grand dad thought?
Yes no way I would except ANY one telling us not to remember on ANZAC day.
But has anyone said anything like that, in our own country we have fleas, riding on the back of democracy are Political correct fleas.
This is evidence, it smells of the same Anglo Saxon fools, who want an end to Christmas and such.
Stand tall for our right to be us,share if you wish multi cultures is not post ww 2 migration but enforced [on us]separatism.
But do not take baits too easily, this is a bait, the press knew that but is addicted to headlines.
You have been hook line and reeled in by the Comic Book print Medea.
The report was delivered and probably ended up in the trash bin.

Dear Belly,

I totally agree - the 2010 report probably did
end up in the bin. Besides we have so many
Celebrations of all kinds in this country -
and no one is forced to attend if they don't
want to any way. We have for example -
Moomba here in Melbourne, the Gay Mardi Gras
in Sydney, we have all sorts of fringe festivals,
comedy festivals, and even the Queen's Jubilee this
year - so what. We've always celebrated ANZAC Day -
and we shall continue to do so - I'm sure. We
celebrate St Patrick's Day - and many religious
festivals - its up to the communities involved -
to get involved - and those who choose not to -
don't get involved. But blaming "multiculturals,"
for a 2010 government report - somehow indicates
that the author of this thread has a more serious
problem that he needs to re-examine.

Lexi, Joe,
All the various 20th century armies, excluding perhaps the Japanese were multicultural, there were Africans fighting on both sides, Franco relied heavily on African troops in his war against the Reds, the Germans had Russians, Poles, Bosniaks, British, Latvians, French, Jews,Iranians and all sorts in their forces, the Soviet armies must have been a truly bizarre sight, they reportedly had central Asian troops riding camels into Germany toward the end.

I can guarantee that "Multiculturals" had nothing to do with that report and I've never seen them be anything but respectful at our local ANZAC march, there's a large group of Sudanese people who attend, I think they might be from one of the churches and the mothers all put their kids front and centre, smiting any wrigglers or chatterboxes LOL.

War has always been created by the elites for power and profit.We the masses are nothing but debt slaves and cannon fodder for their egocentric power plays.OUG is right yet again.

created by the elites for power and profit.
Arjay,
Yes, war is a disgusting activity. What other way is there however, to stand up against a stand over merchant. One lot goes on the offensive & another has no choice but to go on the defensive. The winners are those who provide the tools of war.
It's the Lexis, the 579's, the poirots' et al who prolong the conflict by not helping to defend yet condemning the defenders for standing up to protect many including the unappreciative do-gooders.
Their hypocrisy is simply absurd.

Butch,
I am with you, How absurd for this bloody government to spend $103,000 and another $370,000 on 'focus groups' to come up with warnings that some may be offended by our centenary Anzac Day comemorations.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/anzac-centenary-commemorations-should-be-culturally-sensitive-government-research-claims/story-e6freuy9-1226309721615

To hell with multiculturalism, we were never MC but have been multi-racial since the first fleet. We simply allow some aspects of other cultures to exist here but our foundations, such as governance, military, police, education, laws and justice systems, are all based on the Westminster system. We expect immigrants to integrate and become part of our community, use our language and adopt our social standards.

MC does the opposite, it seperates us into groups and puts emphasis on the cultures of other societies. We have groups promoting this division. The sooner MC is killed off, dead and buried the better.

It is disgusting that the government spend this ammount of money on such a report. Suggest they bin it immediatly. What a waste!

Dear Individual,

You really are becoming offensive. And that is
a sign of someone who doesn't have the mental
capacity to discuss things like an adult.
They stoop to personal attacks.

How dare you make such an inappropriate comment about
Poirot, 579, myself and others, - knowing nothing about our
backgrounds, what our families have suffered in the past,
or contributed,
to this great country of ours.

We may all disagree on many topics
but I don't think any of us would dream of
suggesting that you or any other
poster on this forum is pro war or conflict.

Poirot has already pulled you up on a thread for
your abusive and illogical behaviour recently.
You should have paid attention.

You should also be able to tell from our posts
that we're for saving life, not destroying it.
You've been in enough discussions with us to
be able to deduce at least that.

In future, I hope that you'll read what you've written
before you post. Because if you continue with this
abuse - you shall be ignored. We'll simply look
upon you as an abusive poster - with a nasty streak.

Lexi,
Just settle down & think what YOU et al are stating all the time ok. Constant excusing of those who go off road. Sticking it into everyone who does what needs to be done, those who get up & have a go at everything that's crook in our society. YOU et al are the ones running everyone down who does not contribute in wrecking Australia.
You say I don't know you ? Personally I don't. reading your posts however I know your type extremely well.
Illogical behaviour etc. That's your narrow minded view. YOU are discriminating & offensive to hose who have more experience or a more sober view than you. YOU have to realise that just meaning well doesn't achieve anything.
To close I want to ask you what part of my statement is incorrect. I fully accept that my replies are offensive but not for being offensive's sake. I write like this to challenge the thinking of those who refuse to see reality. Those who condemn the ones who make a difference yet gleefully embrace the benefits that come from those whom they condemn.
Think or say whatever you like about me but I'm not about prepared to join the wreck Australia brigade in order not to hurt your et al do-gooder feelings.

I read, a lot, right now I am unwell, so reading more.
Out in the garden, till I must rest,then online reading.
Just now revisiting my youth, reading of ww2.
And just how much we owe others.
So no one defames ANZAC day for me.
Reading and learning,about the Japanese POWs
But too,knowing no threat ever existed to that day,almost every migrant country saw people on our side, but who cares?
We should focus on these two things.
Medea,all off it, lives or dies on sales, so makes mountains out of sand.
And yes,idiots, not Representative of us, get jobs to put this junk together,or become judges some yes teachers.
We should show how offended we are that they even thought this could be a problem, the end result is fueling racism, with no basis for it.

i agree belly
but mate you said it
shock headlines that feed our fears hates
sell papers..make people listen...force people to yearn for more confirmation

'they were right'
its ok to hate

hurt people we love
cause a survey says so

if ganddad fought
he fought to end war
yet surpise sir/prize..evermore war
even much more 'collateral damage'..than ever before

grandad's mates..[who died]
died for no good reasoning..[there will allways be
loosers called to kill for the state..loosers murder in war[if there is no direct threat to you or your family..[your the invader].your going 'off' to kill

go off war
it kills our best and finest
[it would be going too far to say cowards survive]
but..*if called to die..in yet another 'war'..keep ya head down

you mum dont want..no dead 'hero'

your wife loves being a widow
and kids..love growing up..without a father
and dad..well he died long ago[forget in what war]

close the war book now
we dont need the final chapter
we know how it ends[in a wimper..not the big bang]

dont volenteer to murder
others children

Dear Individual,

Well I guess there's nothing more to be said between us.
I genuinely believe in the most fundamental values of
Australian society - our commitment to justice, egalitarianism
and a "fair go" for all. That was the way I was brought up.
You can't seem to understand where I'm coming from - so I
shall leave you to your opinions. I'm saddened that you
think so badly of me however, because I had previously thought
that you were open to different points of view - apart from
your own. That's why I bothered to interact with you.
Anyway, I wish you well.

Here’s an interesting little addition to the multicultural debate:
“He blames the British liberal opinion-making machine for these distortions, and argues…They have helped build a culture of grievance in which being offended has become a badge of identity, cleared a space for radical Islamists to flourish, and made secular and progressive arguments less sayable, particularly within Muslim communities.'”

“ Multiculturalism has helped foster a more tribal nation and, within Muslim communities, has undermined progressive trends while strengthening the hand of conservative religious leaders. While it did not create militant Islam, it helped, as we shall see in this book, create for it a space within British Muslim communities that had not existed before”
http://www.kenanmalik.com/papers/fatwa_intro.html

Have to agree with rehctub, betya gramps was thinking of this sort of outcome when he went off to fight.
Come to think of it, I’ll bet many of the multicultural enthusiasts didn’t give it much thought either

Lexi we agree with you, mostly anyway.

We want a pretty similar style of Oz to what you do.

We can see this woman, Gillard, & most of the rest of her mob are laughing at you & your mates, behind their hand. They have nothing in common with you, & never will have.

Remember she's the one who said, "Why give the pensioners anything, they don't vote for us". That is the woman you are defending so valiantly. Why?

I'm sure you would not approve of her, if you just opened your eyes, & saw her for what she is.

lexi and Belly,
You cannot blame a media beat up for this one. The government commissioned the report which says the commemorations may not be received well in our multicultural society. I am particularly incensed by the words "Commemorations should be culturally sensitive and inclusive". The only cultures that need consideration are Aussies and Kiwis for this event.

If some others take exception to us remembering our fallen and the sacrifices of our service personel, then I say 'stiff cheddah'.

The media has reported on a government report which is offensive to most Australians, and quoted extracts from it.

Should the media not report on issues that may embarrass the government or that the majority of us take offence to?

Banjo my point is the fools who put this report together just make it up.
Will offend many, often do, but has truth value?
Some females are in need of a look at the real world.
I see extreme lefty woman here, in the making of this report.
IT WAS WRONG! to blow it up and feed fools who see a threat not one of us would stand for.
It came from white Anglo Saxons, not migrants.
Just as years ago the womens brigade took Christian Crosses out of Sydney's biggest hospital.
Our people not migrants.
Now we can rant,say they would behead us for doing that in their country.
BUT WHY? no Migrant said this look for truth.
Sorry but some of those involved in this report should be home cleaning and cooking.
Second thoughts not cooking ,haveing baked this up they lack that skill.

I didn't realise that I was defending anyone.
Merely questioning a few things.
And trying to make a few points about arguing
in a logical manner instead of making
unreasonable generalisations because no one
likes, or supports an abusive, illogical or
weak debater.

Of course there are people in
our society who will try to abuse the system
and people who are fundamentalists from all
persuasions. We have laws that need to be adhered
to by everyone. I'm not questioning that.
However, I don't believe in taring groups of
people with the one brush - no matter who they
are. I take people as I find them. On an individual
basis. And as for politicians - I vote for party
policies and platforms that make sense to me.

See you guys on another thread.

All this BS about ANZAC day is designed to keep us arguing and fighting and not looking at the real issues.Our media does this all the time.Keep the debt serfs fighting while they screw us even more.Divide and conquer.

All of you suckers have fallen for the trap yet again.The Banksters create all this debt money from nothing! They are counterfeiting your productivity and giving it back to you as debt.

They've been in this scam together since 1913 with the instigation of the US Federal Reserve.

Well, sucker or not, my respect for the Anzacs will remain forever.

No one is going to take that from me, and many others for that matter.

Lexi, not sure who that was aimed at, for sure not one word I posted here referred to you.
I standby my every comment, you must allow for all views.
Not agree with some,for sure but understand not much thought is behind some.
And even less understanding.
I am aware,and unconcerned, that my thought process on SOME refugee/migration, and the policy of Multi Culture not assimilation, while retaining ones own culture brands me.
I am far from concerned, other than with the inability of some,to truly see Europe's problems as a result of being far more troubled than us in this matter.
A report such as this however is a waste and a danger.
So very many red necks ,even those who do not under stand that is what they are, launch in to heated discussions and pure hate.
Look hate me, but from every nation in the world and every religion, come great people, and great future Australians.
I refuse to see ANY creed,do as this Phoney report says,and am sure, just as loose cannons post here,a few, very few,want us to cut our culture to give up our past.
To my detractors, free speech is on any subject.
To those who find evidence in this report other than its producers are White Anglo Saxon dills?
Joseph Gobbles used things like this, and he has fools who unable to think,still put junk out ,that they do not even under stand is counter productive.

the mental capacity to discuss things like an adult.
Lexi,
Looking at reality through rose-coloured glasses does not do a thing for anyone, it's plain counterproductive. Then, when the rose colours fade, sticking one's head in the sand definitely doesn't do anything for anyone except the exploiters. I prefer to cop bad consequences through my own mistakes or stupidity rather than someone else's.

Dear Belly,

The post was not directed at you. And I fully
understand what you and others are saying.
I may not always agree with you and others-
but I defiitely
respect your right to your opinion and to the
opinions of others. I expect the same respect
for my opinion. I do not expect personal attacks
however from anyone. And the problem sometimes
occurs on this forum that our discussions do
degenerate into unnecessary personal attacks.

We can disagree on things - but we don't have to
resort to slanging matches - which I've said time
and time again.

I don't "hate" anyone. And I have
the utmost respect for most of the posters on this
forum. As for you - you I consider a friend. And a
lovely bloke.

Dear Individual,

I'm going to sound like a broken record here because
I've said it so often. If the world consisted simply
of some self-evident reality that everyone perceived
things in exactly the same way, there might be no
disagreement among observers. But the truth of the
matter is that what we see in the world is not
determined by what exists "out there."

It's shaped by what our past experience has prepared us
to see and by what we consciously or unconsciously
want to see. Inevitably, then, we're all guilty of
some measure of bias - the tendency, often unconscious,
to interpret facts according to our own values.

There is a tendency on so many people's parts to think
that their way is the right way and that people who
disagree with them are bad. I'm not sure how we in
this country ever degenerated into such a mass
disrespect for the rights of others to hold opinions
different from our own. What does matter is that we
renew respectful dialogue with those who don't agree
with us rather than that we keep slavishly
congratulating those who have the wisdom to see things
our way. It's one thing to think that we're on the right
path but quite another to think that ours is the only
path.

Cheers.

Dear Lexi,

Perhaps you could modify what you wrote, to:

' .... the truth of the matter is that what we see in the world
is not determined by what WE THINK exists "out there"
(or how we perceive what is "out there")
but by both what is "out there"
and other people's perceptions, and consequent actions, to what is "out there". '

Of course, there is something "out there". Objective reality. Dr Johnson proved this when he accidentally stubbed his toe, thus refuting Bishop Berkeley's idealist notion that something only exists if you think it exists, something like that.

Objective reality exists, whether we are oblivious of it or not. If a tree falls in the forest, it still gives out sound waves, whether we are there to hear it or not.

We stub our toes, walk into doors, sneeze, etc. whether we intend to or not: i.e. we react to objective reality according to our perceptions of it. Like it or not, the stone is still there. The door is still there. Bam !

Whether we can perceive objective reality accurately enough to make any judgments about it is another matter. Hence Basil Fawlty flogging the hell out of his car with a tree-branch.

Hence, as you say, Individual :) Of course, he might be right.

Love,

Joe

Lexi,

You have a good heart - don't ever change : )

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

Re-read what I wrote.

Dear Poirot,

I am totally in awe of you so Thank You
for your kind words, my dear.

Dearest Lexi,

Yes, you're right, I apologise for causing a frown on that beautiful face, but I was just a bit concerned that we were going to go all PoMo and get into 'what is truth anyway ?' and 'we all have our definition of truth' and 'who are we to impose our "truth" on others?' sort of stuff.

The universe is out there. The truth about it is 'out there'. We may not have a very good understanding of it but it is still obstinately 'there'. It was 'there' a billion years ago, and it will still be 'there', somewhat more battered and shop-worn, a billion years from now. Isn't that fascinating ?

Love,

Joe

Lexi you honor me by calling me Friend and I will never be other that that in regards to you.
Joe and Poirot often find fault with my views yet they are two of our very best,I will always enjoy their company here.
This morning in my little toy,changed cars little 4x4, heard ABC talk about Gods.
Loudmouths words could have come from that , it was worth hearing.
Lexi some can not be convinced, that views other than their own are worth while.
I regard the wrath of SOME posters as a medal of honor.

Dear Banjo,

Not long ago I was speaking to a young soldier recently returned from a tour in Afghanistan. He was undergoing a series of operations to correct the mess and IED had done to him.

One of the blokes in his squad is an Afghan refugee who fled to Australia and is now serving as an Australian soldier. He actually comes from close to where he is deployed therefore had to change his name so as not to endanger his extended family.

I reckon if you went up and said to any in his squad on ANZAC day that “The only cultures that need consideration are Aussies and Kiwis for this event therefore Afghani should clear off “ you would get several hobnailed army boots right up the clacker.

Dear rehctub,

In the same vein I hope your respect for our ANZACs is without reservation.

Dear Joe (Loudmouth), Belly, csteele, and others,

My respect for the ANZACS is without reservation.
I spent yesterday afternoon (my day off) with someone who was
remembering his experiences in past wars. It was
a very emotional time for both of us.

We owe war veterans a great debt. My much-loved
father in law always
took part in the ANZAC Day marches here in Melbourne
with great pride for as long as he lived.
He's no longer with us today - but to our family -
ANZAC Day means a great deal.

csteele,
I reckon not, probably be given a beer.

Any immigrant who joins our defence forces would consider himself an Aussie and has adopted our culture. He would be proud to march with the other 'diggers' and rightly so.

Suggest you look up the meaning of the word ANZAC.

...What has happened to the once loud (and at times profane, (Bruce Ruxton)) voice of the past,issuing forth from the halls of ANZAC fame, the RSL club, under such pressure of the threat to ANZAC day celebrations?

...Makes one wonder really.Is the RSL club as dead as its first world war veterans, or is the silence simply a sign of the new-age soldier, with a wish to be separated from a serviceman's tradition?

...Where have all the soldiers gone...long time passing,
...Where have all the soldiers gone, long time ago?

csteele,
I now note you added extra words to what I said. You added "therefore Afghani can clear off"

That is not what I said so let me make it quite clear.

If I were recomending Anzac day commemorations to the government I would say. The only cultures that need consideration are Aussie and Kiwi for this event. This is about the sacrifices Anzacs made, it is not about any other society. We have fought alonside many other nations but their cultures are not considered in our ceremony. Would you have us play the national anthems of other countries or mention conflicts that we have not participated in. Should we conduct part in foreign languages?

You have got to be kidding. This is a commemoration for ANZACS. No the only cultures to be considered is Aussie and Kiwi.

Dear Banjo,

I had intended to write 'the Afghani' so was a little confused by the reply, my fault entirely, but even without that qualifier you would probably want to pick a different unit. Is he still an Aussie in your book if he doesn't drink and is an observant Muslim?

As to the meaning of the word ANZAC I'm pretty sure the last two words don't stand for Aussie Culture.

Dear Banjo,

We are in danger of eternally cross posting but here goes any way.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the study was a crock and a stupid waste of money. But I do rail against those who want to hijack the term Aussie Culture. We have a pretty decent record of adopting and accepting others from around the world. Our easy going nature is referred to by others as an asset. We had been at the forefront of international standards on refugees. Our multiculturalism is as much a defining part of the Aussie culture as drinking beer, perhaps more so. The thought that this young lad is fighting shoulder to shoulder with other young Aussies makes me proud of us as a nation irrespective of whether he can drink.

I get cranky when people try to tear down and denigrate what we have achieved as a country.

You are a very wise man, Belly, thank you.

Banjo,

Perhaps the Turks may have some reason to get involved, as might people from all of the other countries whose soldiers fought at Gallipoli, French, Indian, African, English. I wouldn't be surprised if Greek soldiers participated in it as well. If it had occurred in the last months of the War, perhaps the Americans might have got involved :)

CSteele,

Yes, we are one but we are many. And we can all enjoy each others' celebrations.

Thanks Lexi.

csteel you and I clash then agree such is life.
Our past conflicts included your defense of that woman, race religion does not matter, who lied.
She bought charges against police.
A group of thugs, grubby ones, protested out side the court.
I found them , well lets say less than good.
I however challenge your implied view about our culture and ANZAC day.
I try here in this thread to put fires out.
But believe me, ANZAC day is my culture.
Read of the prisoners of war in ww 2 in south east Asia, the nurses pushed in to the water and murdered.
Anzac day is two fold, it reminds us of sacrifice and warns us of war.
Yes the report was rubbish! and each of us, if we want a better world, should poor water on spot fires not light them.

Dear Belly,

I agree with Joe (Loudmouth) - you are a very wise man.
And so is csteele. And so's Joe (of course).

This is actually turning out to be a good discussion
afterall.

csteele,
Doesn't matter whether he drinks or not, Some Aussies do not drink. Nor does it matter what religion, if any, he practices. If he is naturalised he is Aussie.

I suggest you read my first post as I argue that we are not multicultural even though the concept was imposed on us in the 1970s.
We are in essence multi-racial but we do not embrace wholly any other cultures. We are simply tolerant enough to allow some aspects of some cultures. Some alien cultural practices we even turn a blind eye to, such as forced marriages and FGM. Others such as cockfighting and the consumption of dog meat are against the law. But overall we expect all to integrate into our society and conform to our laws and social standards. Multiculturalism is simply a philosopy that rates original culture ahead of national loyality. An attempt at social engineering that fosters seperate development. But you will notice that the very foundations of our society remain derivities of the Westminster system.

In relation to Anzac Day, there is not any reason why others of different cultures should not share our commemorations if they desire but we do not consider other cultures when planning our ceromonies. Anzac commemorations are not the occassion to be culturally sensitive and inclusive, it is afterall about Anzacs. That is a huge part of our culture.

Hi Banjo,

Well, there's 'culture' and there's human rights. I guess we are lucky to live in a country where - at least formally - human rights take precedence:

: we ask, about any cultural practice, does it interfere in any way with the rights of women ? Or children ? Or in any way devalue the rights of any Australians ? Or is that practice manifested in cruelty to animals ? Does it despoil the environment ?

As long as everybody in Australia, and all those coming here to make lives for themselves, are clear about respecting the rights of all others, then they can live as they like.

But in a modern, liberal, democratic society, there can be no devaluing of women, no abuse of children, no cruelty to animals, just because it may have been done back in the old country. There should not be any form of respect for any of those outmoded practices, just because some people try to make out that their culture would be somehow damaged if they are not carried out.

If a 'culture' depends on the inequality of women, etc. to flourish and survive, then it doesn't deserve to flourish or survive, simple as that. There should be no 'special rights', or special consideration, or cultural 'sensitivity', for any group so that its dominant members can get around those laws which are supposed to safeguard EVERYBODY's rights, equally.

Culture, after all, is sometimes not much more than congealed inequality in social relations, in the practices which cement injustice in place and justify it. We have to find the courage to hold cultural practices up to the light and call them as we see them.

Cheers,

Joe

G'Day Joe,
I don't know if we have actually conversed before, but I cannot find anything wrong in what you say. You just put it differently to me.

Multicultualism here is a misnomer because we do not actually embrace other cultures. We allow all to practice those aspects that we find suitable for our social standards. Although I do find it concerning that we ignore FGM and forced marriages but prosecute others for holding cockfights. Roosters apparently have more rights than little girls. A strange quirk in our law enforcement.

When one looks at various cultures around the world, there are many aspects that are not allowed here. They are either against the law or socially unacceptable. We are definately multi-racial but not multicultural. I cannot think of any other culture that we totally embrace. Kiwis come the closest but they have some differences.

We do tend to pander to various ethnic demands but should remember that in doing so we compromise our own culture. Also strange that we uphold the rights of all to retain their cultures, but seemingly do not hold our own in very high regard.

G'day Banjo,

Yeah, don't worry, we all read more than we respond to on OLO, and often, I'm sure, we agree with someone but don't acknowledge it.

Maybe the great thing about Australian law is that it doesn't actually recognise 'culture' or its 'rights': as long as people observe the law, and thereby honour the formal equality of men and women, etc., then they can do what they like, eat what they like, speak whatever language they like, even send their kids to segregated schools provided it operates in accordance with Education Department requirements and abides by curriculum guidelines.

But I'm horrified if what you write is true, that " .... we ignore FGM and forced marriages but prosecute others for holding cockfights. Roosters apparently have more rights than little girls."

I certainly hope that the relevant authorities are coming down hard on anybody employing such barbaric practices, FGM, forced marriages, honour killing, just as we abhor domestic violence and child abuse. Jesus, why does abuse so often involve women and children, and favour men ? Makes you want to turn feminist. I wonder what feminists are doing about these sorts of things, the abuse of their sisters, these days.

Or the brutal treatment of roosters, dogs, dugongs and turtles: again, the law shold take precedence over any BS 'cultural' imperatives.

And in regard to the killing of protected animals like dugongs and turtles and their lucrative commercial exploitation, using power-boats and spear-guns, as someone wrote recently to the Editor of The Australian, 'Why weren't we told about these traditional cultural practices in school ?'

Another job for Henry Reynolds :)

Cheers,

Joe

Joe,
Believe me, I cannot find one single prosecution for FGM related offence, yet some hospitals in our cities have specialist units to treat post FGM problems. The practice is so entrenched that girls that had it done to them, years ago here, are now having their own daughters done. Medical personel do not have to report it and known incidences of FGM are not recorded. Known forced marriages are not recorded either. Perhaps when a little girl dies some action will be taken.

I do not want to get too far off topic so I will say no more, but it is a cultural practice that we chose to ignore.

As for the report of the 'focus group' in relation to the centenary Anzac commemorations, that should be 'culturally sensitive and inclusive'. I see that as attempt to further erode our traditional culture.

We obviously have different notions of what an Australian Culture is. I am just a little more comfortable with the idea that it isn't a 'strictly Anglo-Saxon one and the rest be buggered.'

Pre the 1970s the prevailing 'Aussie Culture' many seem so fond of remembering saw the thousands of our returned indigenous soldiers denied access to RSLs.

Many had to lie and say they were of Indian extraction just to sign up to fight. Many had their wages withheld and not forwarded to their families, found they were ineligible for war pensions, and dissuaded from marching on ANZAC day. More than a few of them returned to find their children removed.

It was a shame only recently acknowledged in 2006 by the then RSL National President Bill Crews who said that the ignoring of Aboriginal soldiers was a blight on Australia's history. The organization now sponsors an indigenous scholarship.

Definately a product of a fixation on a single culture by the majority, one that I at least am glad to see the back of.

That is not to say we don't still see glimmers. It is hard to forget the time those who felt a culture of Ockerism was appropriate at ANZAC Cove of all places, complete with the touting of one Johnny Farnham for a concert. Luckily wiser heads prevailed and instead we had giant screens and speakers belting out the Bee Gees "Staying Alive" across the graves of our fallen. Young Australians passed out and sleeping it off among the headstones and huge piles of rubbish left over the site. Good grief! 

Makes you think just how accommodating the Turkish people are to other cultures and their commemorations/celebrations. Here the youth of the invaders come and act like that on their soil within a bugle call of their own dead yet we are still invited back. Makes the comments by certain posters here quite shameful in my opinion.

Perhaps the 'culture trumpeters' from both sides of this debate should just butt out and leave our armed service personnel to be honoured and remembered on ANZAC day.

csteel sorry if I am wrong
But any research of your post history in my view will support a view I have gained of you.
You appear to me, to be on tip toe but challenging the view ANZAC is part of our heritage.
from that post history,you supported very strongly,the Muslim convert who in my view acted badly in lieing about police,and always leap to support middle eastern folk.
Now some of those folk are remembered on ANZAC day, some fought along side us.
I ask what are your views? why are you highlighting DIFFERENCE?
This thread was always a stupid trouble provoking thing!
But it is my view, no insult intended,you could have written it.
We need inclusiveness not devisions.
If it is your view this day is other than that can you say it openly not hints?
Never fear the truth, but be watchful always of those who have less regard for it.

SEND OLD MEN TO WAR
By Johnny Choate ~ Myrtle Point, Oregon

If I could, I'd enlist today and help my country track down those responsible for killing thousands of innocent people in New York City and Washington, DC,

but I'm over 50 now and the Armed Forces say I'm too old to track down terrorists. You can't be older than 35 to join the military.

They've got the whole thing backwards.!

Instead of sending 18-year-olds off to fight, they ought to take us old guys. You shouldn't be able to join until you're at least 35.!*!

For starters:
Researchers say 18-year-olds think about sex every 10 seconds. Old guys only think about sex a couple of times a day, leaving us more that 28,000 additional seconds per day to concentrate on the enemy.
Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky soldier is a dangerous soldier. If we can't kill the enemy we'll complain them into submission. "My back hurts!" "I'm hungry!" "Where's the remote control?"

An 18-year-old hasn't had a legal beer yet and you shouldn't go to war until you're at least old enough to legally drink. An average old guy, on the other hand, has consumed 126,000 gallons of beer by the time he's 35 and a jaunt through the desert heat with a backpack and M-60 would do wonders for the old beer belly.

An 18-year-old doesn't like to get up before 10 a.m.
Old guys get up early every morning to pee.

If old guys are captured we couldn't spill the beans because we'd probably forget where we put them.

In fact, name, rank, and serial number
would be a real brainteaser.

then it gets really funny
http://www.militarywisdom.net/page2.html

yet i think it is serious
if our leaders want war
LEAD FROM THE FRONT

no one under 48..EVER

Boot camp would actually be easier for old guys.
We're used to getting screamed and yelled at
and we actually like soft food.

We've also developed a deep appreciation for guns and rifles.
We like them almost better than naps.

They could lighten up on the obstacle course however.
I've been in combat and didn't see a single 20-foot wall with rope hanging over the side,!

nor did I ever do any pushups
after completing basic training.

I can hear the Drill Sergeant now, .."Get down and give me… uh …one."

And the running part is kind of a waste of energy.
I've never seen anyone outrun a bullet.

An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him.!

He's still learning to shave,..to actually carry on a conversation, and to wear pants without the top of his butt crack showing and his boxer shorts sticking out.!

He still hasn't figured out that a pierced tongue catches food particles, and that a 400-watt speaker in the back seat of a Honda Accord can rupture an eardrum -

all great reasons to keep our sons at home
to learn a little more about life..before sending them off to possible death.

Let us old guys track down those dirty rotten cowards
who attacked our hearts..The last thing the enemy would want to see right now is a couple of million old farts..*with attitudes.


Rules of Engagement

US Marine Corps Rules:

1.Be courteous to everyone,..friendly to no one.
2.Decide to be aggressive enough,..quickly enough.
3...Have a plan...*

4. Have a back-up plan, because the first one probably won't work.
5. Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
6. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with at least a "4."
7. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

oops 666 words
best chop it in half...lol

8. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal preferred.)
9. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
10. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
13. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating your intention to shoot.

Navy SEALS Rules:

1. Look very cool in sunglasses.
2. Kill every living thing within view.
3. Adjust Speedo.
4. Check hair in mirror.

US Army Rangers Rules:

1. Walk in 50 miles wearing 75 pound rucksack while starving.
2. Locate individuals requiring killing.
3. Request permission via radio from "Higher" to perform killing.
4. Curse bitterly when mission is aborted.
5. Walk out 50 miles wearing a 75 pound rucksack while starving.

US Army Rules:

1. Select a new beret to wear.
2. Sew patches on right shoulder.
3. Change the color of beret you decide to wear.

US Air Force Rules:

1. Have a cocktail.
2. Adjust temperature on air-conditioner.
3. See what's on HBO.
4. Ask "what is a gunfight?"

5. Request more funding from Congress
with a "killer" Power Point Presentation.

6. Wine and dine 'key' Congressmen,
invite DOD &defense industry executives

7. Receive funding, set up new command and assemble assets.

8. Declare the assets "strategic"
and never deploy them..*operationally.

9. Hurry to make 13.45 tee-time.

US Navy Rules:

1. Go to Sea.
2. Drink Coffee.
3. Watch porn.
4. Deploy the Marines.

Bias showing the OUG.
Tell me, is it worth doing that one more time?
From the view point of those cutting throats on film.
Or sending women and kids with bombs strapped to them.
How about launch rockets on to Innocent civilians?
Yes was is hell.
Not having won the first and second, or the coming third?
Hell!

Dear Belly,

I'm not sure what you want from me since you seemed to have your mind fairly solidly made up already.

That being said I do note that you seem to be writing notably more measured posts of late in other threads, some of which I have found pretty darn good. Not saying I agree with them all of course, yet the regular OLO posters change through their interaction here, I certainly think I have.

However I am pretty reluctant to be addressing past threads with you, especially one that you have now mentioned twice, since it obviously has bothered you.

But you have just posted in a decidedly reasonable manner so I tentatively offer this reflection to perhaps lance the boil a little.

Whatever your take was from that thread mine was that I was primarily defending Judge Jefferies and our legal system from attacks such as "our system is infected with unrepresentative fools on the bench.", "And that we are badly served by those sitting in judgment. Just maybe they come from another planet.", "unfit for office", "The Law is indeed blind/deaf/dumb/ and stupid!"

I quite clearly showed via the lady's statement that she never claimed the officer had touched her, yet you chose to ignore that truth. In examining why that might be the case I put to you that you were possibly pursuing another agenda especially when you called for the banning of all Muslim migration.

So when you write; "Never fear the truth, but be watchful always of those who have less regard for it." I felt that was exactly what I was doing on that occasion.

What of this thread? My example of drunken yobs passed out among the headstones is no more an illustration of Australian culture than FGM is of the culture of our immigrants. Think of it as an ambit claim against belligerent bosses. Hopefully with some reasonable discussion meeting in the middle is possible, granted not always though.

csteele while I live I grow, hopefully.
I try to forget some early posts, and am pleased you see improvement.
I do so in your posts too.
Here is me, uncovered, I actually think any form of PC is evil, truly.
I am aware, always have been of the power in words.
That power deceives too, to get certain out comes.
We here could degenerate in to my dad is tougher than your dad.
You throw drunks at ANZAC cove at me, I reply with uneducated products of unwed parents kicking war grave headstones over on camera and bragging about it.
Counter productive, unrepresentative, no understanding on both sides of basic respect.
I think csteele, those anti western Muslims, not all, maybe not most, infiltrate by the pen, challenge our values and culture.
Without that, this country the west, may well see migration as nonthreatening as it was once.
csteele,I believe in no God,am I able then, truly,to say no God or his/her followers should in his/her name,try to change my culture?
As you see/saw a side of me that offended you,I too see/saw that in you.
I think we can talk,even agree sometimes, but the basic thing is I will never agree racism is a western/Australian thing.
I will never concede ever Cronulla was one sided, never forget the insulting behavior that went on for years before that day.
I find it no harder to find wrong on both sides than your history shows you find it to blame wasps.
I knew those Granville streets Aurban too, in days I had no reason to fear them.