LIBERAL Hornsby (NSW) MP Matt Kean has expressed concerns the state government’s new anti-smoking laws could threaten jobs and erode earnings in local pubs and clubs.

A Liberal Party leak revealed he had raised concerns in the party room after Health Minister Jillian Skinner announced moves to ban smoking in all commercial outdoor dining areas, including beer gardens, cafes and restaurants from March 2015.

Is this a case of vested interests influencing an MP to peddle a sickening product, or others wanting to protect their profits at the expense of people's lives. Why doesn't Mr Kean express concerns about the loss of employment for lung cancer surgeons. Maybe he should propose a new subject for primary schools 'The Joys of Smoking', would make as much sense.

Its a pity Mr Kean could not express the same concern for the millions of victims of smoking. I applaud the O'Farrell Government for their new laws, although I don't think they go far enough.

Paul, please go & protect your family, & leave the rest of us alone.

If I want your protection I'll ask for it. Otherwise butt out out of other peoples lives, & take your interfering ways with you.

If we want a dictator we'll elect one.

Hasbeen, Is the rest of us YOU! I have no problem with smoking. Smokers are free to go into a cave and smoke themselves to death. Just don't come and stand next to me at a bus stop, street crossing outdoor cafe and force me to inhale their passive smoke. Don't present themselves at public hospitals wanting valuable resources used to treat their smoking induced diseases.

Paul, while you're standing at the bus-stop, walking across the street crossing or sitting at your outdoor cafe, I hope you're busily drafting a petition to ban all the noxious fumes emanating from those other things that inhabit the outside world...all those cars, buses and trucks can't be doing our health much good.

paul/quote..""Is this a case of vested interests..influencing an MP to peddle a sickening product,""

like them antismoking adds"
my taxes pay for..to perpetuate lies

[one puff can kill...YET THE FACTS ARE..the same ratio's..[of smoking and non/smoking..are in the statistics..

[to wit smoking..ISNT A FACTER!]

recall the insurance/panic re asbestos claims
well blaming smokers made that..costly lawyer fear go away

the two highest/causes of lung cancers are...1..WOODSMOKE
2 diesal micro particulate...3 chemicals added to toobacco[to stop it burning..to make it burn..

and to give it..its latest secret/patented..legislated
bad taste chemical additive

""or others""..lol
""wanting to protect..their profits
at the expense of people's lives.""..or truth

yep..follow the money
big tobacco..is now one big conglomerate
held hostage under lawyers rulings[no doudt minimising the asbestus/and other carcinogene producers..liabilities]

what of brain/cancer from mobile phones
thing is..there are huge special intrests..after that neat tax cake

""Why doesn't Mr Kean express concerns
about the loss of employment for lung cancer surgeons.'''

yes another good point...how many of them
how many smokers...[city/types or country/types]

""Maybe he should propose..a new subject for primary schools
'The Joys of Smoking',..would make as much sense."''

the way your lot
bring up that clever
symbology/joinder imagry boggy

why write such nonsense?

""Its a pity Mr Kean could not express
the same concern..for the millions of victims of smoking.""

the deaths*.. *ATTRIBUTABLE* to smoking
is not able to be proved..!
no autopsies see

[its all hear/say]
thus..*attribut-able..is the spin

"" I applaud the O'Farrell/Government
for their..*new laws,although I..lol...don't think..they go far enough.""

no booze
and suger's..and transfats..!

yes
that is the next step
tripple the cost of ya tipple

and ya kids lollies
killing them slowly into diabetus
softdrink..fruitfractose juice they are huge killers too..

[a great big new
tranaction/transfats/tax]

[i will handle..the advertising..!]

we will clean-up..*

Paul,
Isn't the party room the correct place for MPs to raise matters. To debate issues and see if there are 'unintended consequences' in some proposed legislation.

I am a former smoker of about 25 years ago and I tend to feel that smokers now are very discriminated against.

I think the NSW government should be concentrating on more serious issues. How about the continuing illegal practice of FGM on little girls or forced marriages.

Maybe you have a vested interest in the continuing of these human rights issues?

Paul,
are you listening ?

Poirot, "noxious fumes emanating from those other things" Are you suggesting one can not protest one wrong unless one protests all wrongs. Naturally all forms of pollution must be challenged. One major form of pollution with no up side is smoking in public.
OUG you say: "like them antismoking adds" my taxes pay for..to perpetuate lies." Your line is akin to believing the Earth is flat. The evidence is overwhelming to the contrary.
Banjo,the short answer is yes. However if what is said in the party room becomes public knowledge then the public has the right to question what was said, why it was said, and what motivated the politician to say it.

Paul,

While I do take your point, you happened to mention the bus-stop, the street crossing and the outdoor cafe - each of which appeared to me to be a perfect venue to receive a lung-full of petrol or diesel driven effluvia...and in much greater quantities than the piffling puffing of your average "curiously content" imbiber of tobacco.

Still, it does give people something to bitch about - and has the added attraction of enabling the botherer to feel extraordinarily superior to the misguided miscreants glued to the business end of a cigarette.

Tally Ho! - carry on.

So what about electronic cigarettes then? No evidence of harm yet governments seem keen to ban them.

What is the better argument? "Smoke yourself to death by all means but dont breath any on me.", or "Get your fix from something far less harmful that poses no risk to others."?

pauleene escape clause/quote..""OUG you say:

"like them antismoking adds" my taxes pay for..to perpetuate lies."

Your line is akin to believing the Earth is flat.

The evidence is overwhelming to the contrary.""

saying it is so
dont proove it is so

your lying assistants
make claim..that the social cost of snmoking is 43 billion

again 'social cost..is anything and everything
assosiated with smoking...revenue from sales/taxes..etc

the actual medical costs..
ATTRIBUTABLE..to those died attributed to have died from 'smoking'...lol...is less than one billion[not 32 billion]

800 million or there abouts
acurate numbers posted at..previous smoking topic trolls
[where i quoted a alp govt members numbers]

think of all the hate fear and lies from your fellow haters
knowing they cant hate race or sex[but heck smokers sure.//just happens..to be a certain sort of smoker..but hate.lies mate..thats standard opperating with your scare cam-pain

try it with drunks
or pick on faties with die-abetus
who's bludging on the health system..is huge

smokers apparently simply go to hospital to be killed off in their sleep..[by those doing the right thing..hells bells they are only smokers..]

dfocter have no issues with faties or drunks
but if they die...and suit the smoker prophiles
its death by smoking

its too pathetic
the lengths haters will go

as i type im smelling a neighbours per-fume
cheap stinky perfume..it reeks..[i gave up smoking once
but mainly to get over the stink of society..had to start/up again

just to get rid of..the other stinks
you clean people..love to put on your body
to cover over the stink..of the other stinkers

but your hate..has made you deaf
saying you got proof...when all you got is a theory
ATTRIBUTABLE to smokers...smoking your stinking cheap perfume's

take your guilt and tax your own addictions
your a lobbiest right?

lol

Paul, you are absolutely right. Smoking is a proven dangerous activity for all ... except where profits can be affected apparently.

Don't bother taking on OUG over smoking though.
I have been there a few times, and he is a lost cause with his head in the sand, as far as smoking goes.

I have no problems with people smoking in their own space, but I don't want to smell their smoke and have it ruin my lungs too.

And no, I don't care about all the other smells in society, because they don't cause all the problems that smoking causes.

And no OUG, I don't want another rambling commentary about all the lies from all the medical people in the world who would dearly love to see smoking BANNED altogether...

I don't know Mr Kean the member for Hornsby, a blue ribbon Liberal seat. I assume he is at least of average intelligence, well versed in the dangers of smoking etc. Then I thought unless he is a smoker in denial or some such person, why? What motivated him to raise what he did in the secrecy (seems not so secret) of the 'party room'. Why not call a national media conference, get ones self on the 6 o'clock news to try and right the wrong! Mr Kean would know the overwhelming view of his constituency on the subject, in fact the governments action had met with almost universal approval. Then what motivated Mr Kean? I can only conclude, despite the views of his constituency, despite the overwhelming approval Mr Kean is beholding to a microscopic vested interest section of our community. I ask, does that microscopic vested interest kick in wads of cash into Mr Kean's reelection campaign, I can only conclude, most likely.

I smoked Camel plain for 25 years & I can honestly say that dealing with australian bureaucracy has proven far more detrimental to my wellbeing than all those cigarettes.

Governments haven't banned smoking. These regulations are about restricting inconvenience to others simple as that - no big conspiracy. And some are naive to think there are not profit motives behind objections to these restrictions.

Smoke by all means but do smokers have the right to inflict their fumes on others. While I agree there has to be a public place for smokers in these sorts of venues, why not create defined smoking areas but not just by drawing a line between the non-smoking areas as was done all too feebly in the past.

I remember all too well the horrible work environments when everyone was forced to endure smoky offices, public transport and even when eating. I don't see any of the pro-smoking lobbyists showing much concern over the rights of non-smokers.

Smokers had it all their way for decades and now that there is a requirement for some common courtesy suddenly out come all arguments about discrimination. A bit hypocritical now I reckon.

It just seems a bit rich to be talking about discrimination and ostracisation when for years nobody gived a toss about the restrictions on non-smokers.

Paul,
I do not know Dean MP and you also say you do not know him.

Therefore it is disigenious of you to suggest he has any ulterior motive or is influenced by others. You simply do not know why he spoke about the matter in the party room. His intentions may simply have been to ensure there were no unintended consequences from the proposed legislation.

Also, an unconfirmed leak from a confidential meeting does not give the public any 'right to know' or the right to comment on his alleged statements.

Frankly I now question why you make disparaging suggestions about Mr Dean. Surely there are far more important issues that could take up your time. I did suggest a couple.

Sorry, reference to the above post.

The mans name is Kean,

I do the man a diservice, my apologies, obvious to see I do not know him.

Banjo, That's Matt Kean, Kean with a K. Although at the moment he may well prefer to to mistaken as Mr Dean. My comments are in no way politically motivated. There has been little for me to applaud since the election of the O'Farrell government in March 2011. However I iterate once more, I applaud the action taken by the NSW State Liberal government on smoking.
You say "His intentions may simply have been to ensure there were no unintended consequences from the proposed legislation." That could be the case, but I feel to make that presumption would be naive on my part, I don't accept that was the intention at all. You describe the Kean comments as "unconfirmed" and "alleged". Yet Mr Kean has not denied making the comments nor has any other person in attendance at the party meeting questioned the accuracy of the leaked comments. On other issues Mr Kean may well be an excellent local member, but on this he is clearly out of step with the overwhelming view of both his constituency and the wider view held by the vast majority of the general public of NSW. Why?

I reluctantly enter the fray.
As a once walking ash tray, more smokes than you would believe I understand but disagree with the get off the smokers back mob.
Paul, you a lefty very much so supporting a silver tail from Sydney's rich belt?
And being verbally trashed for it?
I never stop a smoker smoking in my home.
Or car, but gee it stinks.
I searched for ways to stop, give up .
But lengthy stay in hospital Q fever before the inoculation became available,and I never smoked again.
Loved the habit and loathed it, smoked best imported pipe and Cigars roll your own and the Paul Hogan brand, wish I never had.
OUG will disagree, but it kills.
So? I agree with Paul and Suzionline.

lotsa things will kill us belly..lonely ness seems to be the destiny of smokers[and people getting cancer at ever higher rates..because their hate..allowed the blame to be put on smoking]

yes smoke stinks...now govt has mandated
the latest antiburn chemical..after a few drunks burned to their deaths..it is much worse/but who cares..its only smokers..

you cant do much more to hurt us
smoking is the little comfort we can give ourselves

i dont smoke in your workplace or in your pub
or in your club..or in your space..

is it too much to ask
that you stop wearing ya perfumed stink..that reeks..
and gets burned ..TOO..when i try to smoke,..

and stop driving past my place
with ya petro chemical car-cinogenes
and stop stinking up the bus..with that antipersperants

peooples bad breath[garlic/booze/riotted teeth
infected gums and other sins of others
are others sins

but heck when a govt member
cant even defend what was..*half his voter base
now shrunk painfully but steadilly..to one quater..with so much guilt blame and shame..

[redirection away from the real causes of cancer
things like orica leaking out legally..any chemical
it can sneak out into the air..in the dark of night]

air i then burn as i smoke
but you lot get undiluted

this was all created under the influence of a drunk mind
drunk on power and his dayly tipple...

how many pubs/booze crews
does the alp run...booze will cause cancer
and with booze yes one sip your brain cells start to die

but why not attack booze?
or diabetic lollies or transfat fast food

lol

special intrest..?

""Smokers had it all their way..for decades""
as has the anti [reformed]..smokers..

but..wait
those smokers then who got their way
are the same anti/muggs..now getting yet again..THEIR WAY

common courtesy
must extend to ALL STINK
all that put their addictions[fruit]
[like big fat arrrrrses on my side of the seat

suddenly out come all arguments about discrimination. A bit hypocritical now I reckon.

""discrimination and ostracisation""
takes a cettain type

""ulterior motive""
self intrest..money...

""or influenced by others.""

so we dont focuss
on their sins/addictions/stinks

Belly you refer to me as a 'Lefty' supporting the 'silver tails'. I'm not so blinked that I can't see good, when good is done by those I perceive as my political enemy,in this case the conservative O'Farrell led government of NSW. Their legislation cuts across party lines and is good for the vast majority of the community, excepting the micro minority Mr Kean purports to represent, aka pub owners and club executives. Come next election I hope Mr Kean campaigns vigorously on a platform of unrestricted smoking in clubs, pubs and child care centers, a real vote winner.
Belly not related to this thread, where did you get that 6% support for The Greens,more like 12% to 15% and rising. By the way Robo is on the slide big time, as popular with voters, as ants at a picnic.

Maybe Paul you should consider saying some thing controversial, so we can have an argument.
First 6% did not come from my dream time but official polling.
And Robo will do well.
Remember your team failed to pick up much in that NSW road wreck.
It must be remembered just how big Liberals win was.
And that a third of fixed ALP voters bought about the wreck by leaving Labor, not for the Greens.
Big Barry has his mandate, no matter what he does he can not fail in the next election.
In the long run our pain, NSW residents, is for electing a failed ALP one time too many.
I except that,and it has a benefit, strange as that sounds, my party can rise again when it learns this,*never ever again*
Paul what is your long term hope for your party?
Surely not to ever govern?
How long term? if to govern let me say the 12th, of never.

Belly, Newspoll has us at 12-15% both state and federal. While Australia is in a relatively well off position. The conservative element within our society is rather large. Their vote is partly fixed and partly oscillates between the two conservative parties Labor and Liberal. In rough terms the rusted on fixed conservative Labor vote is around 30%. Likewise the ultra conservative fixed Liberal vote is around 30%. For both conservative parties 60% of the vote is tied up. Of the remaining 40% the progressives command about 15% of the vote, independents and sectional interest groups about 5%. Of the remaining 20% around half or 10% of voters are apolitical, a group which are likely to make up their political mind at the last minute, but tend to favor the general trend opinion formed from the media news reports etc. not an overly interested section. The last 10% of voters are the true swinging voters they move backwards and forwards between the two conservative parties. On a two party preferred bases with the conservative ALP at rock bottom they can command their 30% rusted on vote, preference from most of the progressive vote 15% and little else, giving them 45%. On the other hand the conservative Liberal Party can command 30% ultra conservative most sectional interest preferences 5% and all the swingers and disinterested 20%, giving them 55% a clear win. After campaigning the gap generally narrows to something like 48 to 52%, with movement from some disinterested and swingers.

Belly given time with economic instability, people becoming better educated but at the same time more and more marginalized in society. Political affiliation will become more fluid. The big conservative parties, particularly Labor will suffer a reduction in support they can count on, the rusted on voter, in recent history I believe that support has fallen from 40% at its height in the 1970's to around 30% of voters today. That support is still in decline and will continue to decline. While the Progressives will increase their base. Ultra conservatives will polarise to protect their sectional interests. More and more people will question their position in society. The libertarians will come to the fore. Labor may well be again the third party in our political system. Your party may end up in coalition with the ultra conservative.

Paul 1405 Comrade, you bring back memory's of my misspent youth.
Those words, change, the world is falling in to our lap.
You got that from the Communists,Marxist Leninist, we are the future.
Well most grew out of it a very long time ago.
Even as a kid, learning post school to read by stumbling past words I did not understand, then coming back.
I could count,never understood how but was faster than most in adding and subtracting.
Took that into my work life and it helped, could out count the boss every time.
Now getting old, but still count without a toy helper.
Greens get 12% so far their best.
And yes , understand your hope, more flee the big party's and gather at the small party's waste lands.
But it is a dream,two party preferred, know why we say that.
Maths,tell me I am just being nasty,or that I am wrong.
For every green voter, for the 12 in one hundred,88 will never vote for you.
Its about numbers mate not dreams

I an sick of the harrassment of smokers.Last i heard it was still legal.Let's do something about obesity it has surpassed smoking as the biggest killer and user of medical funds.The stench of smoking is nowhere near as bad as the smell of BO from so many grossly overweight people.I have smoked for 47 years,never been sick a day, never even had the flu.If i should become ill because of smoking i have paid my taxes all these years and so far,other than the usual necessary tests for women have cost the health system nothing.I figure a few cylinders of oxygen and some puffers would come to nowhere near the amount of health funds spent on the average citizen.I am a considerate smoker and go out of my way not to inconvenience any person with the smell and dispose of my butts carefully.

Geez, haygirl, don't you feel some sort of flattery that amongst all the poisons freely promoted in our society, yours is the one targeted for eradication...and you get a starring role as "Pariah of the Moment".

It is a fascinating irony in a society that boasts almost a liquor outlet on every corner, constant mega-emissions from vehicles, bucket-loads of preservatives in foods and fast-food outlets serving up dietary poison, that all of it can be overlooked in favour of targeting one particular fix. A sedentary, sugar and fat-laden lifestlye is apparently the norm.

Yes Poirot,i do feel priviledged to have been one of those singled out for preferrential treatment.Maybe i should quit the cigs and start gorging myself on junk food and alcohol.At least then i will get my share of the medical funds allotted.Maybe i will acquire a smoking related disease and die prematurely.That will save the govt paying a pension and forking out for all the old age related illnesses.Our oldest citizen died at 117 recently and she had smoked until the ripe old age of 114.I am more concerned about the noxious gasses escaping from all the vehicles on the road.

oug
I know there are many other pollutants and 'bad' things in society but this thread is about smoking. Does anyone posting a response on this topic have to caveat it by listing all the other bad things too.

Happy to comment on other issues too, but not to distract from the topic of this thread.

Why is it smokers think it is a direct threat against 'their' rights for some common courtesy to others.

Some cannot see the woods for the trees or should that be smoke.

Smokers on this thread have run us through the whole gambit of irrational argument about smoking. Everything from denial, "its all a Commie plot to take away the joys of smoking" to "I pay my taxes". Then there is the totally absurd line of argument " I knew a bloke who smoked 80 a day, lived to be 110." We even have the responsible smokers argument, "I recycle my butts in the compost bin so I can grow organic buck coy," There is more, like "why don't you tackle third world poverty before you attack us smokers." One of my favorites is "Us smokers have rights, we have the right to kill you with our addiction."
I am not advocating a total ban on smoking. If tomorrow science invents a plastic bubble which smokers can ware in public to contain their cancerous contaminations, I'm all for it.

Paul yes true, but for OUG he says it is a need.
No one can claim to have been more hooked on smoking than me.
Hooked is the right word.
Most took it up to be seen as cool or one of the group.
We will not budge OUG but if we do not make a path around such we never can change anything.
IF OUG and others are hooked,then give them under Medicare free tobacco.
But lets not continue to flood our storm water with butts,our beaches, and land fill.
All leaches and stains.
We confront every day other things we wish to do but can not, restrained by laws.

I mentioned a few locations where passive smoking is a drag. One was the crossing waiting for the green walk sign, where the smoker Ted the trucky, will come up stand beside me, blow crap all over me whilst he is busy uselessly banging on the button to change the don't walk sign to walk, a bad case of hypertension. Then there was the coffee shop, join a friend for a cappa, lets sit outside and enjoy the fresh air, along comes Denise a dolly bird from the local real estate agents, sits at the next table, loudly on the phone telling Marg all about last nights date with Dave, lights up puff puff all over you, look at me, look at me. a bad case of anxiety. Finally At the bus stop, Monday morning when 'I hate Mondays Neal' the budding exect carrying his brief case containing his banana and fold up umbrella, right now his job consists of shredding and filing, and of course talking to Kaz the receptionist, works at that big Insurance company in town. I'm waiting for the bus, up comes Neal, lights up, a quicky before the bus comes, blows smoke all over me, bus is coming, now its rapid puffs five or six, Neal's last on the bus as he has that last big drag on that fag, that final fix for the next 30 minutes, before dropping it on the footpath to add to the million other butts already there. Sits nest to me, stinks of smoke. Kaz a non smoker is not going to think much of that, wont get Neal to first base. Poor bloke might not make 40, there goes that exect position. Say anything to these smokers and you will get "mind your own business! I'm not breaking any laws, I've got rights." Thanks smokers.

belay the lie belly..""a need.""

no mate..its become so much more
to giveup now..means liars won

""Most took it up to be seen as cool""

no mate...[i didnt smoke tobacco..till i was over 25 years old]
or dope till i was 24...i have not ever been part of a or one..'group'.

i dont ask for free smoke
i dont ask for medicare[on prionciple io prefer to die some painfull deatrh..that allow lies be created upon my dead corpse

percicuted from cradle to grave
while true vile went on..cause they fight back

""flood our storm water with butts,our beaches, and land fill.
All leaches and stains.""

mater..tobacco is so expensive..i dont have 'butts'
i roll a filter from the rolly packet..re-use it 3 to 5 times
then put the tar soaked paper*..into the fireplace

so you lot sick ya butts up your own butts
[ps if each ciggie butt was worth 5 cents
you wouldnt find one anywhere]

oh no here comes yet another tax
stuff the blooming lot of ya

i ask nuthing from any./of you

""We confront every day
other things we wish to do..but can not,..restrained by laws.""

AND BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS DRUNKS LOBBYING YA
with refuilled bottles of petrol

angry drunks get left alone
fat kids gulping down diabetus

that's just the way it is
go figure

i suggest paul..get a life
pathetic whinging...

he dont mind body stink..
or crappy nappies..vomit..dohg poop
or urine smells..in his bus stop/etc

but smoke..heck the guy clearly dies
during a cane burn..or fire prevention burn off

he dont mind beingh poisend with flueide in his water
or birdflue in his big mac muffin

Paul,

Did you ever stop to think that these people resort to lighting up as a psychological defence to Paul 1405's habit of loudly reciting his improvised fiction in public spaces?

...Your onto something Paul1405; Pulp Fiction. You need to work on adding-in the violence. Any chance you could rewrite your piece allowing your imagination to extend into “sex, drugs, crime and of course the ubiquitous smoking Babe or two.

...Gather them altogether at the pedestrian crossing you mentioned, for a murder and a cigarette maybe. And if it’s a dark wet and windy night, a little sleaze in the lane, followed with a cigarette or two waiting for the bus with the young exec and his brief case. But, whats in the brief case? A packet of cigies and a smoking gun maybe! Go for it man, you have a fan club.

Paul
It is a losing battle. People (all of us) don't like being reminded they are doing something inconvenient to others. Simple defence mechanism and I certainly fall into this trap as well.

But I do get your point and it is a valid one. While I can understand the knee jerk emotional defence response from smokers - my own friends who smoke do say they are made to feel like lepers - there is two sides to this issue.

That said, however, it is a bit disappointing to still see some smokers perceive a great conspiracy against their rights while ignoring the rights of others.

I felt the same when the government banned my habit of poking people in the eye with a stick. :)

I have not even mentioned the lost productivity of smokers in the work place. That employer paid rotating strike being continuously held outside work places all over Australia. Where the nicotine addicted gather in work hours to discuss the days events and feed their habit. Make them clock off and clock on. make them pick up their butts as an extra duty on weekends, a smokers cleaning roster!
The extra days smokers require off work each year to recover from minor illness exacerbated by their smoking addiction. Make smokers pay I call for a 100% minimum increase in tax on tobacco products to fund in a small way the impact smoking is having on our society.

Paul 1405,

You're being far too soft on these societal menaces.
Nope, I suggest you rally the anti-smoking forces of the nation and petition government for internment camps - with perhaps an identifying tattoo just in case anyone escapes.(You can employ regular boozers for camp guards and have MacDonalds do the catering). It'll be like a small nation state - hoorah!

Happy International Womens day Lady's.
Hope it focuses on changes needed and improved life for some.
It will not,if we get defensive, Gday Poirot are you a smoker?
I can find reason, if I look,to say yes or no on any subject.
To defend any thing or oppose it.
We,humanity, squabble about every thing.
Yet one day must confront this.
A third way, always exists.
Our tower of babble world, defeats good out comes, stops them dead, because we want our out come.
Yet most see smoking as a health risk, at the very least,most see promoting the habit in poor country's as bad.
Can any one give me a reason why humanity should not act the third way.
In the interests of the many not the few?

Yo, Belly.....my target is purely at Paul 1405's particularly sanctimonious attitude (as in the above "make them do this - make them do that")

I call it the "Protestant Protest Ethic" and it's always guaranteed to get my gander up.

Which of course should be "dander" (coz my gander won't get up for anything : )

Poirot, I glad you have come on board. Don't like the term interment camp. Sounds to much like holiday camp, where free pipes and cigars are being liberally handed out to smoking refugees by Julia Gillard at tax payers expense. I would rather refer to them as smoking gulags, where smokers are sent for re-education. After a 16 hour day of rock breaking and salt mining, the ex-smokers, far too exhausted to want a smoke, would then be subjected to exposure from the smoke of burning tractor tyres for 4 hours, followed by 4 hours of listing to Paul Hogan spruiking "Anyhow DON"T have a Windfield" over and over again at 100 decibels. Do you thing that is too harsh? Should we cut that Hogan spruik back to 90 decibels and maybe add an extra dry biscuit at meal times, but then again we don't want to be seen a bleeding heart liberals, do we? Can I be camp commandant? Or am I too much of a softy?

take a gander
at pauls dander

the dander of an obbsessive?

judge for yourself[what he wouldnt do to drunk driver's
or child perverts..or killers or murder's

but will gladly do..!..to smokers
REMEMBER THIS GUY IS DRIVEN
and deadly serious!

"" I would rather refer to them as smoking gulags,
where smokers are sent for re-education.!""

teach you how to drink[take strss pills
like then normal pauls

""After a 16 hour day of rock breaking and salt mining,
the ex-smokers,"""

so once a dog allways a dog
WATCH OUT YOU SMOKERS WHO QUIT!

paul is also asfter EX smokers

""far too exhausted to want a smoke,
would then be subjected to exposure from the smoke of burning tractor tyres for 4 hours,'""

the natzies refined it
now the sun of zion demands it again?
this guy is insane!

""followed by 4 hours of listing to Paul Hogan spruiking
"Anyhow DON"T have a Windfield" over and over again at 100 decibels.""

this guy is a parent?
you gotta fear for his kids!

""Do you thing[think?].. that is too harsh?""

do you?
really?

how about them other crims?
[oh they = you?]
right!

""then again we don't want to be seen
a bleeding heart liberal,
do we?""

of course
you wont...lol

i can assure you
you hang upon your own petard

""Can I be camp commandant?""

sure
just hit the showers first

""Or am I too much of a softy?""

not compared to stalin
or the zionist endtime natzies

nope mate your fine

your hired

now
go..hit the showers
[do you wanna write..to tell your family
how much fun your camp is]..[the natzies did]

Tell us what you really think OUG
And thanks, for proving my point self interest over rules better out comes
Nazi? doubt it, the bloke is a Socialist left person

yes belly
and hitler was a greenie

so whats your point

ohhh

same same
got ya

yeah ya gotta watch that self intrest lobby
lobbying for yet another slush fund

we got a whiner folks

Not sure what you are on about OUG.
Think maybe you blind your self on this one.
Think I am a green,funny stuff.
Spent 11 days in hospital.
Cancer ward, Thought, not for the last time I had it.
Watched a great and good man dieing, watched his family and grand kids visit leave crying.
Heard him, many times, say Belly if only I had given up smoking.
I could have seen those grand kids grow up.
Watched him die.
Others who may or may not have been smokers too.
Standing by my thoughts here bloke.

ha great one belly
i watched my ol man drink himself to death

so sob stories mate
[its cheap shotting]

you were a smoker..for longer
than many posters posting here have been living

so your proof..some old worker dying of asbestos poisening
or some other industrial cancer..of his lung

so here is the spin
[you were in hospital for 11 days
clearly the dude could still breathe/talk[to tell you so]

then one night...'he pased peacefully in his sleep''
to wit was 'given'..so much drugs he died stewed to the gills in painkillers

at least my ol man did
then two uncles

there are those rabid haters like paul
who would think it a service to 'help a smoker'..shuttle off his mortal coil

thing is mate;..your not a smoker
yet your in hospital

im a smoker..and refuse to ever go
i plan to die in my time..not murderd by some smoker natzie

doing their bit

go comment on stuff ya know
drunks and drinking..going to docters

get a life

A Quiz, Taken from a list of about 500 dead film and TV starts.
.
What do the following people have in common?

Lucille Ball, John Candy, Bing Crosby, Sammy Davis Jr, Yul Brynner and Clark Gable.

The first to post the correct answer wins a life times supply of cigars!

paul...it hurt me to attack...one as wise as yourself
but if you wanna keep attacking me
ok game on

how many stars crashed their cars/planes..
while stoned to the gills on booze and pills?

and..what will you win..?
will you..win peace..or find new loves..to hate

who is to say..how anyone will die
who is to say..smokers only die of cancer

hence the lie re passive smoking
[to hide the same ratio's..of cancer between smokers/non smokers]

to wit hide the lie
not a smoker?..oh...lol...
well he died of cancer ATTRIBUTABLE TO..passive smoking..lol]

mate if only smokers get it
then the numbers would say so

THEY DONT

[mate you dont know
you live on hate/mate
you DONT KNOW..

[wont even then]
when..you are running your 'werk maght frei death/camp..

if that dude..wearing a yellow/toobacco leaf
really was a smoker..before he was forced to wear the yellowed..[kaki]leaf..tattood..into his forehead..

his/her...[it's]

or that all deaths.."accorded"[attributable}..to smokers..actually were/are..active not passive smokers

ex smokers
seem to get off scott free
[yet cancer takes up to 20 years]

BUT YOU WOULD HATE THEM
non smoker..[leaf wearers]

as AS MUCH AS THAT one..who dared breath his smoke on you..
instead of his booze addled..bad breath...or bird flue

will females
be used for breeding experiments
will mendler[you]..be doing vitimin deprivation research on your kids

are you so dumb..as to not know
your doing the same hate/fear mongering
just hating a differnt dog?..you deem pork

govt DELIBERATLY put MANDATED stink..into oobacco
just so you natzies..can kill those..you re-branded criminal

its a shame..to see one soooo clever
act so biased...

like a bleach/blonde natzie
no doudt
*you NEVER smoked...

[wrong..?.!]

so welcome to karma..[get a life]
we got real active hate going down..
your people going to drink the coolaide

not just/the lost tribe/..*smokers

Paul 1405.

Didn't they all star in that wonderful Broadway musical, "The Importance of Being Uptight and Puritanical"?

I well remember Bing Crosby sitting on a spike, in true Puritan fashion, with Lucille Ball on his knee (two spikes being an extravagance) singing that famous line: " I'm Dreaming of a White Cushion".

(kudos to Blackadder for the spike line)

Talk about giving your life for your job.

The 'Marlboro Man' was a character created by Marlboro (Philip Morris) to promote their cigarettes. Commonly featured from 1954 to 1999 he was depicted as a rugged cowboy. The character was created to promote the introduction of filtered cigarettes, yet sustained a large fan base. However, it turns out that two of the actors who portrayed 'Marlboro Man' died of lung cancer.

Wayne McClaren and David McClean were both hired as actors, and forced to smoke up to five packs of cigarettes a day for shoots. It's no surprise after only ten years of resigning as the character, both had died. McClean's family sued Philip Morris, the company owning Marlboro, after his death claiming they held responsibility.

McClaren and McClean helped establish Marlboro as the best-selling cigarette in the world, making Philip Morris the most profitable cigarette company in the world.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mengle+vitamin+definciency+experiments&oq=mengle+vitamin+definciency+experiments&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=12&gs_upl=8892l20483l0l23617l5l5l0l0l0l0l2684l5045l9-2l2l0

... (Cancer is
a Vitamin B-17 deficiency “disease”

just as SCURVY
is a Vitamin C deficiency

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php%3Faz%3Dview_all%26address%3D132x1589358&sa=U&ei=COJZT6xfgq2IB7CXscQP&ved=0CC8QFjAJ&sig2=1uF3ve8qvxQnviMm7wUKKQ&usg=AFQjCNGwKCo4_svRtter9qXqFAizLFBE7g

What experiments did Josef Mengele do?
He tried to change people's eye colors. He injected children's eyes with different serum's. He also did "high elevation" experiments, which basically he strapped them to something and changed the...

What experiments did Dr. josef mengele do?
He would put blue dye and bleach in people's eyes to see if they would turn blue, this caused pain and agony adn death. He also was interested in twins he tested to see if one twin died if the other...

What was the purpose of the experiments of Josef Mengele?
to help Hitler's super race become reality. And after Hitler accomplished that, he wanted inbreeding to happen. yes like have relationships with family. close family.

What was the strangest experiment was done by josef mengele?
once, he cut two twins in half and sewed them together to make Siamese twins

Why did Josef Mengele experiment on people?
well....first of all Josef Mengele, through out his carreer, always had a special interest in twins and dwarfs. Basically because there were so few and for him, they were "exotic specimens".

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_did_josef_mengele_do_experiment_on#ixzz1ocHci24G

OUG you post under the tag of One Under God. I assume there is some kind of religious connection there. Am I right? Then as a religious how does one reconcile the body as being some kind of 'temple of god' with polluting that temple with smoking. Your god can't be to pleased about that.

paul/quote..""I assume..there is some kind
of religious connection there.

nope
ok i belief in god
but religeon's mate...they know not
the good/god which they dare to speak for
[yet their works reveal they are far from him]

lacking in grace/mercy etc etc
[ie not loving other..as the way
to know god..[via his creation]

so sorry
religeon cant claim me
but god ..uber allis

""Then as a religious""

as a THEOist

""how does one reconcile
the body as being some kind of 'temple of god'
with polluting that temple with smoking.""

how does love
reconcile those..AB-using..his gift of life[love]
to kill others lol take life to kill life...

life only god can sustain to live
[look at the most vile living..yet god sustains them all their 'life'

""Your god can't be to pleased about that.""

you are my god
i asm my own good
together we are all good

i aqs a bit of good
say no worries..we all fall short

and jesus only ever recorded quote
DIRECT from the scroll of issiah..chapter 42
it is relivant./..[joins first chapter of the first book old test..gen 1;29]

to rev 22;2...via issiah/exodus 25;40

with the first being last

need i quote it to you?
i weould explain it gladly

anyhow
can i be a capo
in ya prison camp

the big bong
talks of gassing
the hemp/flax..beggers

in a huge pipe

they are watching..the herd
chosing their next cash cow

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cctv-at-petrol-stations-will-automatically-stop-758518

quote..""Downing Street officials
hope the hi-tech system...lol..will crack down on the 1.4million motorists who drive without insurance""

insurance should be put on the petrol
why

just watch

""Cameras at petrol stations
will automatically stop uninsured or untaxed vehicles
from being filled with fuel, under new government plans.""

you will be held to ransom
forget..ior be one micro second too late

your a cash cow
and everyone is police

things like 'that'..only happen to bad people

""Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras
are already fitted!.. in thousands of petrol station forecourts.

Drivers can only fill their cars with fuel once the camera has captured and logged the vehicle’s number plate.

When a car is flagged as being uninsured or untaxed,
the system will prevent the fuel pump being used on that vehicle.""

or any other thing
they can think of

if you on the list
your stranded

it began with the smokers
endedd in death camps

its the same mob running
the same old scam

before they bring on armogeddon
[or so they hope]..welcome to the prison planet

1984..was the script
we filled in the detail
if your not in the incrowd
your out

sure you get revenue
catch crims

but its random search
no laswfull reasonable suspition
no lawfull cause to act..no injured party..

no victim..cause there is no crime
[thus revenue raising]