The recent leadership spill in the ALP has, even by the ALP’s own rank (and I do mean RANK) and file standards, exposed an astonishing level of lies, cheating, obfuscation, poison, personal vilification, rewriting recent history and character assassination.

This, it must be remembered, has not only had the active participation of the progressive media and academia, it has all been internally targeted and self inflicted. It has been a timely reminder of the supposed “value system” of ALP politics.

Is it any wonder that The Lib/Nats have refused to put their leader/policy combatant into the arena?

If the ALP machine and the progressive media can drum up so much vicious bile against themselves, just imagine what awaits Mr.Rabbitt?

With some 18 months to go, “les dysfunctionales” bait the opposition to come out with their policies. They are drooling at the prospect of attacking them but know that they can still attack a no-policy situation just as hard.

What can TA do to counter this and indeed, should he do anything at all. Perhaps he should just stay out of it on the basis that one should never interrupt the enemy whilst they are making mistakes?

Mr Abbott should just keep attacking, negating,carping, calling for an election, and seat-warming for someone electable. Anything else, such as policy-making, would be a waste of his talent.

Spin doc rarely we agree, but in the case of my party's recent explosion I saw much the same as you.
Rank and Vile won, by ignoring the rank and file.
Some, cretin for sure, went far in to the dark places.
Abbott is not a leader, he surely can not survive.
I think he and Gillard are pretenders, not likely to make it.
While I think Gillard should/will go my party, damaged by this event,fearing a NSW illness may stick.
NSW illness was unrelated to leadership changes, it was the way power brokers picked the wrong leaders that was the problem.
Tony will go before an election.

Belly,
how about a little honesty for a change ?
The reason why you run Abbott down at every turn is not because you think he is incompetent. It's because you fear that he'll turn out to be as effective as Howard. You're hoping he'd fail, that's all it is. It's pretty poor to think that this is more important to you than the health of our country. You'd be prepared to let it all run down even further rather than let the conservatives rebuild. I work with people like you. They concede & whinge about the state of affairs but will not change their vote to make things better. I don't know if there is a word to describe this but it sure as hell isn't intelligent or decent.
You want the Police to stop crime but you still want the crims to roam the streets. It beggars belief.

Belly, I pretty much covered my sentiments of the current ALP in the Graham Y thread.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4992#133891

But this issue now goes far beyond party politics because it has done what appears to be irreparable damage to politics in general and the government, the ALP and JG in particular.

The issue for us all to consider is which side of politics can recover for the next election?

What can JG do? What can TA do?

I could suggest to you that I see opportunities for TA. The perception of him boils down to the “creation” of TA as Mr. Negative and Mr. No Policies. In addition, the ALP thrust is now constantly directed at good economic management. I doubt that this will ever get traction with the electorate for two reasons. Firstly that if the ALP is focusing on it they are telegraphing their own weakest case, they always do. Secondly, the “actual record” of good fiscal management rests with the Lib/Nats.

It seems impossible that in the run up to the next election, that the ALP can make any sort of economic management case to the public that can spin past;

$20bn in the bank, no national debt and $40bn in the future fund, vs nothing in the bank, future fund already raided to fund $4.4bn to pay compensation for the CO2 Tax, $220 bn national debt, money we don’t have so we borrowed it costing $1.2m per day in interest costs alone, and an NBN cost heading for $60bn that is not even on the books.

If TA’s remaining problems are Mr. Negative and Mr. No Policies, then perhaps he is the only one with wiggle room. A strong and well targeted policy platform is all that will be required, at an appropriate time of course.

Rather than defending “what the ALP is”, the “rusted on’s” need to suggest “what the ALP needs to be” to win the next election. With focus solely on TA, sentiment is growing that the bottom of the ALP barrel has been reached, especially as we are still 18 months out.

"...we are still 18 months out."

I wonder when (not "if") Malcolm is going to make his run...or does everyone think he stuck around just so Tony could take the top job? We might be seeing a similar leadership stoush in the Liberal ranks in the near future.

They are not game to release any policies, abbott got a going over by his party, about parental leave payments.
This bloke has got the potential of being a real radical. he could make Kennett look like a saint.

There was a pretty strong earthquake in Japan a couple of weeks back.

And where was Tony Abbott ? Somewhere on the planet ......

Hmmmm ......... Coincidence ?

I think not.

Poirot,
One can't rule it out categorically that Turnbull might want to go for the top job but we can only hope he won't destabilise the one chance Australia has to get back on track.
I'm pretty sure that the conservatives have learnt a lesson from the recent Labor show how not to destabilise not only Australia's chances but also their own.
People like yourself are desperately trying to cause this disharmony by talking up Turnbull but I for one hope he's smarter than that.
All he needs to do is to play the Rudd tapes over & over again to see what the outcome would be.

Dear Poirot,

I'm with you on this one.
Mr Abbott only won the leadership by one vote.
Once the Liberals realise that they may have
a chance of losing the next election (after
Labor delivers positive outcomes in the next
eighteen months), and there's a drop in Mr
Abbott's standing in the polls - he'll be
dropped like a hot potato. The Libs don't like
losers. They'll then approach Malcolm Turnbull.
And it won't be a moment too soon.

Dearest Lexi,

Abbott was re-elected unopposed (i.e. 100 % to 0 %) after the last election, I believe. No, I would never vote for him, I'm rusted-on Labor, or at least Informal.

Somebody has been feeding you too many funny mushrooms, it's not your fault :) It grieves me to predict that Labor will lurch from crisis to crisis from now to the election in a few months' time. Question: is Labor more stable now than two weeks ago before the Rudd dummy-spit ? Is it more stable now than three months ago when Wilkie got done over ? Is the support of the other two Independents and the Greens more solid now than three months ago ? Is Australia's international standing stronger now than as month ago ? Jesus, is the federal government's standing stronger amongst the states than a month ago ? With business ? With farmers ? With unions ? Its Right hand with its Left ? Gillard with Carr ? No, not Bob, the other one ?

I hope they choose Warren Mundine to replace Arbib, but I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow make a hash of that too.

Lexi, you see the good in everyone, that's why every one of your posts lifts the hearts of so many guys on OLO, but even you can't stem the pain.

Love,

Joe

Lexi,

The problem with my theory on Turnbull's ascension is that right now Julia and her ensemble cast of roving players are making Mr Abbott seem more popular than he really is. I almost started watching politics again in the last week..almost...because I've had an allergic reaction to it since Julia came to power. That, plus the opposition leader being the uninspiring Abbott has left me bereft of any taste for political shenanigans at all.....sad but true.

...so if Julia and Labor keep making Tony look good - then how does Malcolm ingratiate himself into the leadership position - although, I'm hoping/assuming he'll 'ave a go whichever way it goes..

Poirot,
Again, you're attempting to increase the number of non-thinkers i.e. trying to turn it into a popularity contest. This is about all of us, about Australia as a whole not as in Labor's eyes ,a hole.
Abbott, Turnbull is about image, Coalition / ALP is about competent economic management. We already have proof that Labor can't manage. We also have proof of Abbott having experience from having been part of a team that has proven to be way more competent than Labor.
As no-one is perfect we can expect discontent from Coalition policy whereas we already know that Labor only delivers misery.
I hope that Australians think past themselves & think about the community as a whole at the next election. If they care enough then the outcome is a no-brainer & Labor will be put where they can't do any more damage for some time to come.

Poirot and Lexi,
You both are whistling in the wind. Living in hope.

Turnbull done his dash when he supported the ETS. He is a warmist believer. Don't forget he made us get those stupid light bulbs.

He was dumped because of this and Abbott, at least, made the right call. The wheels have fallen off the big red AGW wagon. The sooner Labor accept that and ditch the carbon tax and sack Flannery, the better off they will be.

After all the goings on about the Labor leadership, I find it amusing that Labor supporters have the hide to suggest who should lead the Libs.

Dear Banjo,

You should ask yourself why the Labor supporters are
making the suggestion as to who should lead the
Liberals. A hint may be Mr Abbott's standing in the polls
as PM. Get real.

Lexi,
The only reason Labor supporters would advocate Turnbull is because they want to see the Libs fail.

You should remember that Abbott has not been tried so you have no form to go on, unlike Rudd and gillard.

Also that the Libs do not put the same messiah inference on the leader as Labor. They operate as a party, not a one man band, even with a Cabinett and the parliamentry party making policy and decissions. Labor could learn from this.

Abbott has not been tried. Who wants to, he done his apprenticeship with howard. The coalition need to be a good opposition, not a no opposition.
Big joe can't add up, and bishop is just about out on her feet.
They need to get real, and come up with some policies.

Dear Banjo,

I totally agree with you - Labor should learn from
its mistakes - and all the signs are there that it will.
The sad thing is however - the Libs don't admit to any
mistakes - and therefore there's no room for improvement.
They won't learn and advance. Their lack of ideas and
constant negativity - doesn't give anyone much confidence
in why they deserve to be elected. You can't seriously coast
along on condemnation, no policies, and more condemnation.

Labor should learn
Lexi,
They've been saying that since Whitlam, that broken record's been playing ever since. After 40 years even the least smart have realised that yet the staunch supporters stay staunch. doesn't really say much about them does it ?

Dear Indy,

The same can be applied to both sides of politics.
The Libs have been coasting along for years on
many pretensions - including economic management -
yet doing really nothing to establish their party's
credentials. They seem content on appearances - while
offering us little of any substance.
Sad really.

Sadly, the only "material" the Labor Government has at its disposal in order to expose Tony Abbott & his opposition, is that he fails to give the electorate even a small window into what the LNP stands for. He is devoid of vision, reform ideas, economic credibility etc., otherwise why would he not embarrass the Government by showing his hand and give the electorate a taste of substance? Mr Abbott is progressively digging a hole for himself. His performance in Parliament is weak. Attempting to suspend standing orders on a daily basis, is a puerile attempt to delay legislation and stifle debate. Use of "slogans without solutions" , will in the end prove the downfall of the man.

The coalition have been bought out by business, so have shock jocks.
This coalition has the potential to drag AU back 40 years, Pledges in blood, a dangerous situation. They will do anything to avoid making policy, and yet they live by polls. No one knows what they would be voting for.
Australia's richest persons and Tony Abbott, have a program going, to do every thing possible to disrupt the workings of parliament.

Anyone contemplating voting for Liberal will be put off by the lack of policy coming out of the Liberal Party. Abbott is more of a Conservative than a liberal and puts many off even despite the fact that a Party is more than just one man. Howard's influence was pervasive, Abbott probably not so much.

The real worry for the Australian people is if the Coalition wins by a huge margin and has a majority in the Senate, we are really in trouble. Based on history, what policy surprises might surface under those conditions that the electorate has not already weighed up and considered? WorkChoices was a mistake and while many in the Coalition admit the Howard Government went too far, will the opportunity prove too tempting, not just for IR policy but any other 'reforms'.

Abbott has been drowned again, Bob Carr has taken the foreign ministers job. That is what he gets for trying to outsmart the labor camp. Mud on his reputation again.

They should change from ALP to AFP, the Australian Failure Posse.
They're starting to get seriously worried about Abbott, why else do they spend so much time degrading someone who they tell us is not competent.
They wouldn't if he really were.

I suppose being in a consistent place where your party is 20 or 30 seats ahead is being between a rock and a hard place for Labour supporters. This is hilarous. Fancy them wanting to pick the Liberal leader when they have chosen Latham, Rudd and now Gillard. Each one they have defended to death. Can't see past their dismal failures.

individual, this is so frustrating. Why is it so difficult to get ALP supporters to say what the ALP needs to do to secure an ALP victory at the next election?

The ALP needs to? Tony Abbott.

The ALP policy needs to reflect? Tony Abbott.

The ALP machine needs to do a? Tony Abbott

The ALP needs to have? Malcolm Turnbull.

The ALP should dump? Tony Abbott.

The ALP ministers need to be? Tony Abbott.

If the answer to the universe is not 42 but Tony Abbott, and the ALP does not have any other answer, why can’t we just have an election? If they don’t have any answers, we certainly do.

spindoc,
I recall when Joh Bjelke Petersen was in Qld labor's firing line just as Abbott is now federally,
There was nothing under the sun that they didn't blame Joh for. It got just so ridiculous when labor reached that stage of desperation & now it's happening again.
It's just too stupid for words. Tony Abbott is probably responsible for the flooding & the fires. I'm surprised they haven't blamed him for their own stupidity. They are silly enough to do it.

We can't have an election, you wouldn't know what you were voting for, the noalition does not have any policies.
Big Joe and Toni can't work any out.
Soon as we get some policies to discredit we can have an election.
Pledges in blood. Crap. No, stutter stutter stutter.

579,
you're exposing your ignorance once again.
I for one think that when Abbott says they will work on getting Australia out of this hole & back on track that is one huge policy covering all other policies. what more can one do ?
I have way more faith in the coalition of achieving this again against Labor never having achieved it.

Clive Palmer a national treasure, in bed with the noalition, financing the carbon pricing push to discredit it.
The 1 % are active and the noalition is right in their back pocket.
Clive wants more of the share, and willing to spend millions to get it.
Toni will get a belting over this one, it's good to know who your mates are.