Why is the Australian economy continually being talked down.

The negative approach by the coalition is a gigantic factor in propaganda.
Even members of the coalition must give credit where credit is due.

579,think about the carbon tax, and the debt Labor have put us in.Labor have us in a death spiral and you have not the nous to realise it.

Simple, anyone can make something look good, you just need to keep throwing money at it.

The car industry, pacific bonds and the aluminum smelter to name just a few.

Now while it keeps the employees employed, the bills paid and the wheels turning from the outside, on the inside it's a whole different picture.

Once the funding runs out and, assuming little has changed, what then!

Now if we had funds in the bank, saved for that rainy day, this may be a reasonable course of action, but in reality, we are having to borrow this money.

This is why we have a faulse economy, it's just that we have a government that is in denial, and that's a worry, because once these handouts are done, chances are these industries will be in similar shape and will collapse anyway.

Difference being, we will have spent billions along the way, that's billions we don't have.

So this is why the economy gets talked down.

I think 579 is Belly in disguise.

The process of propping up businesses with taxpayers money has been going for a long time Rehctub, from both sides of politics.

None more than the Howard Gov't, have promoted such rampant porkbarreling of powerful constituents. Now it is a given from Gov'ts of either colour, without question.

In addition to this, personal income tax cuts are the new way for the taxpayer to receive a pay rise instead of businesses funding them. In Howard's case the bulk of the benefit of these type of cuts went to the wealthy anyway.

Meanwhile the taxpayer had his profitable assets like Telstra sold to corporate international business as well as State Govts (of both persuasions) selling other essential services, leaving the Australian Economy subject to the whims of big business, and with little or no executive , legislative or economic power left to wield on behalf of the taxpayers.

The power the Mining Industry in our country is frightening, because it seems like we don't actually own our minerals, if you watch their propaganda on TV. Spin they have funded with all the profits they are making, by not paying tax on their profits. They get more, we don't ? !. Go figure.

The Australian Economy ?, I'd say we're stuffed for the long term, whomever is in Gov't.

Arjay I think it's Wayne Swan, Belly is a lot less one eyed.

R0bert

So 579, you mean like the treasurer giving the banks a hard time,
even though he knows that their costs of funding are rising.

When is the Govt going to stop issuing spin?

One set of dumb twits talks the economy up while the other set of dumb twits talks it down!

They are both right... it is great by world standards, but it is built on a house of cards. It is VERY fragile.

Abbott's mob are closer to the truth - our economy is in deep trouble. But unfortunately, there solution is just more of the same that has got us into this pickle - first and foremost, to boost growth!!

There isn't the slightest thought of a no-growth stable sustainable economy from either mob of drongoes!

If Costello was still at the wheel he would have been heralded as a miracle worker for saving us from the ravages of the GFC but that's not what sells newspapers these days.

The economy is being talked down for political reasons and because there are too many journalists with too few stories to write so sensationalism is the preferred option.

Both parties have abandoned their principles in a search for political populism and poll fetishes but we are still on the right track economically.

Spewing out raw figures is completely meaningless when context is ignored. Using the current media analysis, if you spent $20 on fresh fruit and vegetables and I blew $10 on the pokies I would be considered a better economic manager than you simply because I spent less.

What other country is in a better economic position than we are in right now?

I am going to blot my copy book, but first arjay.
Your self confidence is badly miss placed.
Look for it in the dusty cupboard you once put your understanding and balance in, if you have not chucked it out.
I think there is always truth.
Not used, but it however stands any test.
While Europe crumbles and America can never pay its debt.
We are trashing our economy some of us.
But truth with out doubt stands, we have a two speed economy, some true difficulty's.
But any western country no exceptions, would like to be in our position.
High Australian dollar, hurts, but floating it was a basic in opening this country , in bringing us to this high place.
We must think.
Deeply, such as Rechtub, constantly call for stricter welfare control, even food stamps.
But decry moves to end middle class welfare, Medicare levee.
That is trash talking our economy.

but it is built on a house of cards.
Ludwig,
I concur with that, it's only the prettily coloured paint that's holding it up.

<< But unfortunately, there solution... >>

What?? I didn't write that!

But unfortunately, their solution....

Here's Jeff Kennett's solution:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/jeff-kennetts-scheme-to-get-victoria-moving/story-fn7x8me2-1226273267881

It just doesn't cut it I'm afraid!

Is it fair for Australian companies to sack local workers and send their jobs overseas?
Yes & No, If the business owners/managers get paid the same as those who do the work in the seat shops then my answer is Yes !
If they get their product made in sweat shops but make australian profits & send australian workers to the wall then those business owners/managers should be taken out of circulation as well.

in agreement/with the tubman

belly/quote..""truth.
Not used,..but it however stands any test.""

that is so true[blue]

""While Europe crumbles
and America can never pay its debt.""

europe began crumbling..when the euro/beurocracy
took the powers from elected govts..stole the common wealth
after stealing the banks

creating money..out of a promise to repay dent
securitised the 'promises....as bankers bought govt bonds

the increased cost of borowing..mate
thats because the deposit..that underpins bankers rights to trade
were less that desirable..[to wit..the lent..99 times that they have to lend

so they needed to buy govt bonds
so lend on govt bonds

and govts wasted..the loan
all loans since..have been only to repay the old loans

ITS NOT GREECE..that needs the loan
its the same old lenders..nedding to get more govt bonds

so easy money...was too easy
but now has become to hard to repay
so the loan just gets bigger and bigger

thats not just govts

any multinational...has an ever growing debt load

that is the house of cards

their assets..arnt worth the old value's
when workers had enough cash..to consume

no consumption
no growth

the staistic lie
look arriound any industrial park..or shopping center

them empty shops..they are value fast loosing value
providing no income

unless govt rents the empty buildings
forms workers/cooperatives in them...and put them to some use
giving some token income on the asset..

or they will continue to deteriate

govt gives
to the wrong lobby
cause they..that are fast going broke..dont know it

cause the media treats news as sport
treats gossip as gospil...has given little
for the much it was expected to give..to wit the fact..the full facts

full brief on the new laws...
full details on the gifts grants and trusts
getting at..our hard earned wages..[wage isnt income]

forcing compulsory insurances..levies/set acces fees
compulsory..super...fuel/smoking taxes etc

generouse super top up's
the more you earn..the more you get[lol from govt]

a set rate of assistance to all
is fair..

It's to simple to say foreign debt is to high, why is it to high, and what is the breakdown.
How much of that is for infrastructure.
How much was borrowed on behalf of companies for expansion. And repaid by companies, one day.
Unless a breakdown of borrowed money can be found, how reliable is criticism.
The Treasury doesn't seem to have a problem with national debt. Australia is known to have a very low national debt.
National debt is expected to top one trillion dollars.
Mining companies are known to have a large stake in national debt.
Can we criticize the debt level without figures, or do we put our trust in treasury.
The gigantic gas plant in WA north, is going ahead, how much will be added to national debt on the companies behalf there.

I charge the usual suspects with failure, to under stand this country is not in trouble.
To know unemployment is Aussie dollar driven,and that our foreign debt is one of the very best in the world.
I point out they do not wish to hear or talk about truth.
And warn strongly, American debt, European debt, is not sustainable.
We should be both happy this country is far better off.
And deeply concerned at the possibility's world wide of a very real debt and monetary crisis, even this year.
Get the net working for you, read both main British papers, Wall street journal and follow the links.
The world Envies us, but we too may fall if the international crisis returns.
Iran, if it blunders in to hard war, and it may, could be the first brick out of the wall, with 20% of the worlds oil taken away and massive inflation as a result.

It ain’t the economy stupid –- It’s everything else!
(to adapt a Bill Clinton quip)

It is comical to watch 579 (and all the other odd numbers) madly scurrying from thread to thread desperately trying to talk up Ms Gillard’s credentials (something must tell them their ship is sinking!)

The economy isn’t looking so bad because Labor was bequeathed a healthy surplus which it proceeded to spend like there was no tomorrow.

Though the Labor apologists line that the money spend on school halls was money well spent is beginning to look a bit thin, after revelations of the last couple of days:
“The performance of Australian school students is up to three years behind the performance of children in Shanghai and lags well behind children in other Asian countries.A Grattan Institute report, to be released today, shows Australian performance has slipped since 2000, with maths students now more than two years behind children in Shanghai and one to two years behind children in Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea”
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/australian-students-lag-asia-by-three-years-20120216-1tbt8.html

But what is stark is the general mismanagement under labor.
The backroom guys & gals said it was all about Kevin and proceeded to assassinated him in the most dastardly of fashions.

But the problems only got worse under Ms Gillard.

From a political angle I am disinterested as to who leads Labor.
But from a human decency angle, I hope Kevin Rudd gets back the leadership.
No Australian Prime Minister, Labor or Liberal, should have been treated the way Rudd was by his “colleagues”.
It would give me a deep visceral satisfaction to see him returned.

Oh 579, a message for your leader:
"Beware the ides of march"

SQRS I do not have a leader, i have a political party which i favor for some reason. Maybe its the party that governs for all Australia, and not the chosen ones.
If you can not come up with a breakdown of figures, it is useless of you down talking the economy. You say things got a whole lot worse, can you explain what you mean.
Endless rhetoric says nothing.
It's interesting to see our more learnerd friends have not weighed in, excluding Arjay of course, maybe they know better than to rubbish the economy.

I tend to agree with you, Ludwig, that our economy is a house of cards. I think, though, that the economies of most developed capitalist nations are. As we rely on taxes, we need businesses to hand over the money. When times are tough, they are tough for businesses and, as a result, the revenue slows down. When times are good, they are good for businesses and the revenue speeds up. Add in another layer of complexity - times are tough for tourism but good for resources, or times are tough for retail but good for manufacturing. If we put all our eggs in the one basket, we have to protect that basket, often to the detriment of other baskets.

So a house of cards it is. A house of cards can stand up for a long time, but it needs external forces to serve as windbreaks and stabilisers in case of a cyclone or an earthquake. And that's why, in my opinion, we tend to talk our economy down. Times are going well for us, our basket or two of eggs seem pretty safe despite a lack of protection and our house of cards is standing up. Sadly, I share many of my fellow Australians' lack of faith in our government (or our shadow government) to provide the stabilisers and windbreaks that will be needed when times change. Our house of cards looks grand for now, but we can't spend too much time admiring it while ignoring the fact that it could fall down.

Hmm ... sorry for talking in riddles today.

Brilliant, that should be published on OLO and compulsory reading.
I knew there was some learned persons here besides meself and Belly.
An outstanding comment.
Tell me what is wrong with the Carbon Tax.
Do we have as is, or as the opposition wants it, individuals pay $ 1300 / yr and this is supplied to business.

So for those of you who think we are in good shape, ask yourself a few simple questions.

1. What'd you see labor doing that will kerb their spending?
2. If we have the same four years as the past, where will we be in four years from now.
3. Where would we be if we didn't have th money in the bank prior to labor gaining office?

Being number one doesn't always make you the best, it can just mean that the rest ar really bad.

I for one feel That unless some serious changes are made, amd fast, we will end up goimg down the toilet.

All the subsidizing in the world means nothing if those being subsidized can't stand on their own two feet.

Offering rewards for buying locally made cars would be worth considering, like cheaper petrol and rego.

It's always better to build a business rather than try to save it.

And Belly, if you honestly think our welfare system is just fine and not in need of serious changes, aimed at eliminating waste, the you are either blind, ignorant, or both.

To think we live in a society that can almost track our every move, yet we can't fix this ongoing problem defies logic.

Quarantining the wasteful recipients money and drug testing of those who can't, or won't get a job would be two good places to start.

Anyone who watched Eric Campbell's report on those companies in Bavaria a couple of days ago would have realised how pathetically bad practices are here. No wonder things ain't good & are going to get worse. We could possibly weaken the impact if Australians are smart enough to change Government.

Butch You want labor to kerb spending.
Which particular spending would you like to kerb.
Do you know what the money is being spent on.
Your opinion differs from that of treasury, they are quite comfortable, you claim to know better.

@ 579

<<Butch You want labor to kerb spending.Which particular spending would you like to kerb>>

Can't speak for "Butch" but here's a couple of junkets that we should cut for starters:

1) "Washing machines, microwave ovens, DVDs and plasma TVs are among a 60-item welcome gift pack for asylum seekers offered rent-free homes in the community.To fulfil a promise to move an influx of families out of detention, the Gillard Government is now fitting out each home with up to $10,000 worth of furnishings and electronics.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/welcome-asylum-seekers-chris-bowen-and-julia-gillards-ship-of-fortune/story-fn6b3v4f-1226273358603

2) "When Immigration Minister Chris Bowen announced the plan for the 1,500-bed centre in March he said it would cost $9.2 million for capital costs.

It was later revealed the land lease would cost a further $74 million over three years.

Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison says the tender details which have just been released show it will cost $200 million"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-05/detention-centre-costs-blowout/3637278

And all because the ALP couldn't say -- NO!

I thoroughly enjoyed the report on Bavaria, individual. It was a bit of an eye-opener. What's interesting (to me, anyway) is that for a long time the Mittelstand model has not been taken seriously. The idea of saving to buy (rather than borrowing to speculate), taking risks with your own money and keeping your business to a manageable scale conflicts with many of the trends of the past century. Hell, if you speak to Germans from the north and west of the country, you often get the idea that the Germans themselves don't take the Bavarians too seriously. When the chips are down, though, it's the modest Mittelstand businesses that remain solvent.

We have an economy that one day could be called as the Great Gut - a time of emptying the vaults of natural wealth - the superannuation of our children and their children.

It is a period of governance as Gatekeepers, no vision no leadership, just of allocating wealth some of which is being directed to propping up the moribund, such as the car industry. Playing Poison Parcel with the living dead.

This period of the Great Gut (and its manifestation of the burgeoning waistline, the gut) must surely go down as the 16th century Spain when within 100 years of the Americas, rotted) conquest under the pseudonym of the "developers".

Australia does not have governance, just "cricket players".

It appears that the australian welfare system is favouring those who fare well.

Arjay, I hate to spoil your theory, but Australia has one of the lowest public debt levels in the developed world.
Even right wing economists agree that the GFC stimulus (a significant contributor to the public debt) was the right thing to do.
Australia could double it's public debt and still be lower than most developed counties.
Psychologists have found two interesting facts about the internet and how humans relate to it.
First, we tend to believe what we read on the net, (linked to humans' tendency to believe the written word over the spoken word).
Second, we humans tend to assign unrealistic levels of urgency to what we read on the net.
Honestly, mate, I think you're falling into both traps.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Looks like that no one can answer as to what is wrong with our economy.

Hi 579,
I would offer this.
The only thing wrong with the Australian economy is it's two speeds, which is a result of the mining boom and if we could have gone ahead with themining super tax in its original form there would have been additional revenues to help the second speed lane.
There is also the high Aussie dollar, but that's more a consequence of our economy's success and other countries' economies poor performance than a reflection of anything wrong with our economy.
Overall, and given the past three years globally, our economy is in really good shape.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

The miners will be able to pay more tax next year , they are getting self drive trains, and sack 500 drivers.
It is stupid to say there is something wrong with the economy, it's in perfect shape.
How much of foreign debt belongs to the miners, Australia is guarantor for these borrowings, and without it, they would not be able to expand.
All the common Joe sees is figures, unless you know what the breakdown is, you can not say it should not be there.

579,
Are you for real ?
The huge Public Service & total over regulation, that's what's wrong. Too many hangers-on getting paid way too much for doing effing nothing.
Cut back on Public Service Lurks, start a national service & do away with dumb crap rules
& Australia will get back on track within two years.

your both right
too many beurocrats/first

anna blioght..just announced a sceme
to put half the income from royalties..into a educational slush fund

[she loves slush funds...and some how
gets to keep the intrest..[who qwill admin it i wonder

anyhow its hard to listen to her garbage
buut it seems it may be some scollarship[mates rates for mates]
or even better...lol...a fund admionesterd by a beurocracy..that dont stasrt doing much..till decades hence

reminds me of that first class hospital[al la yes minester]
it was super efficient..cause it didnt di sick people
only beurocracy..[too clever by half..trhese beurocrats running the two party systen]

and the other point
well i agree at any rate

sack the beurocracy
take away their pensions
one flat rate pension to all pensioners

not mates rate..to those so expert
at feathering their own beds

Put public servants on the unemployment list, is that how it works.
You'll have to come up with more than that, it's a struggle.
Cut more upper-class welfare, by means testing private schools, will be a big help.
Australia's economy is number one and in great shape.

I have to disagree with Individual regarding national service.
Here and in the US, when national service was tried, it turned out to be an incredibly socially divisive policy.
Any party that suggested it in Australia would become defined by that particular policy and any other policy idea, no matter how sensible it might be, would be drowned out in the noise.
I spent 20 years in the RAAF, so if anything I love the military life, so I'm certainly not against that part of it, but you can't force people to put on a uniform.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

lol talking about trains
looks like clive palmer is going to buy q'rail
when the nats win..

[heck hope they price ..driver savings..into the sale price
the savings of drivers wages..as extra bonus
[worth billions]..on the price*

not like when anna blight sold off state forrest
worth 60 billion as real-estate

but..as state forrest
to a mate..for a measly 800 million

lest we forget the new power and water berorockrats
soon..who knows..[the state odious debt..blows out to 75 billion]

put the lot of em into jail
by the by..how can the qld upper house
vote itself out of the qld constitution..without a peoples say?

who our leaders not talking about
restoring qld govt to that constituted..in its foundation documents

crimanals the lot of em

Yes driver savings, the miners have already got 150 mill; worth of driverless trucks. On the national debt no doubt.

Put public servants on the unemployment list,
579,
Stop being such a moron. Cutting excessive pay is not putting people into unemployment. I really wish you'd stop coming back with such nonsensical quips.
Antonyve,
I have never advocated Military Service. I'm talking national service. You know the one that no-one's tried yet, the one without uniforms. The one where the unemployed get some otherwise unavailable practical training & exposure to responsibility. All at far less cost to the rest of us.
Throw into this a flat tax & improvement will be evident in a very short time.
Don't say it won't work just because our economic experts say so. Of course they have to talk it down because they'd have to show some competence which would stump them from day 1.

Let them have their job, just pay peanuts. That is something butch would say. And what would this cost cutting achieve.
Besides forcing people out of houses they can not afford.
Where are you going to find these unemployed for your national service.
Aha the public servants again.
Leave those sorts of thoughts for someone else.

579,
Do you really approve of Public servants in charge of a 7000 strong community to get paid $6000 p/fn plus a tonne of other benefits ?
Do you think that cutting them back to $3000 p/fn would be paying peanuts ?

579,
how about a reply ?

I have no idea what public servants get paid, I say your figures would be for the few at the top end.
Not the normal joe.
To worry about public servants, first you would want to know where they are and doing what.
They are not there for no reason.
Everybody in the workforce pay tax , buy houses, etc. So i am not sure what you are implying. Is there people there that should not be there.
How would trimming numbers assist the economy. Australia right now is very busy, business is going through change and getting ready for the new economy. Mining is expanding. A shift in retail toward on line.
Australia must provide what the citizens want.
Auto makers have got to rethink what the market requires.

579,
I concede that you're living where the misappropriation & mismanagement is not as visible as in the North.

I have no idea what public servants get paid,
579,
It's not only what they get paid, it's also about what they cost us & what we get for our tax dollars spent on them.
You'd need a strong heart to read up on it, especially on the hidden reports.

The carbon price has not done any damage to the coal exporters up 64 %
When the noalition eventually puts some policies out to breath we can be judges, until then it is useless taking polls, because no one knows what they are voting for. And properly costed of course.
Lets not forget the pledges in blood, even though public opinion is shifting.
Unless you know exactly know what work the servants are doing, You can't say it's not necessary. The victorian coalition govt; are downsizing by 5000 public servants, by voluntary redundancy.
I think they sack the ones at the top and reemploy at the bottom. sounds good but is the numbers really downsized.
How can u just find that many in excess.

Of course, Individual, you'll no doubt be citing quotes from these 'hidden' reports, to back up your assertions.
No? What a surprise.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Why don't we start by cutting your pay Individual ?. Of course cutting anyones pay is not an option is it ?.

Antonyve,
Start googling & you'll find.
Thinker,
live up to your name.

Antonyve & thinker,
I have actually done what you suggest & guess what, I lost my job because Labor supporting public servants had to stick together at being exposed. So what's the most natural Labor thing to do ? Persecute those who do the morally right thing, that's what.
I have seen good Doctors & medical staff laid off because they queried mismanagement.
I have seen good managers persecuted because they tried to weed out incompetence. They all got shafted by, you guessed it, Labor supporters.

Individual,
Why in the world would I go and do the Google research to find support for your proposition, which I think is frankly preposterous.
Think about it.
First you make an assertion.
Then you claim there are 'secret' reports that back up yor assertion.
Then, when, I ask you where your evidence is, you tell me to Google it.
Can't be much of a secret.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Antonyve,
You're right, it isn't much of a secret. As for your suggestion of me making assertions I can only suggest go & live in remote Australia for a few years & experience for yourself.
If you have an ounce of knowing or at least accepting that others might actually know more than what you've been fed then you should also have enough sense to know that those who support the corruption surrounding us on an official level will stop at nothing to persecute those who are trying to stop it from getting worse.
I don't know how much you care about others but there are many out there suffering greatly because of those persecutors whom you appear to defend.

Assertions are unproven claims, may be right, may be wrong.
What usually comes with an assertion is data, refences, examples or evidence in support of the assertion.
Now, on your last post you made a bunch more assertions, with again, not a shred of support.
If you want to bring people to your point of view, don't insult us, convince us.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Blood pledges are dripping from the walls. Germany now has a greenie president. When mr wabbitt and big joe, come up with some policies, we will know which way the wind is blowing. Until then we continue with the worlds best treasurer and Julia, for our guidance.
The carbon tax will add $1.50 / seat for local and $ 8 for international.
Paul keating wasn't the most popular bloke but he won the unwinnable election.

Antonyve,
Why, is it asking too much to suggest you go out & experience reality ? Is really that much easier to try & ridicule those who have experienced ? Like I always say "those with no retort resort to ridicule".

but he won the unwinnable election.
579,
he was just lucky that there were a lot of ignorant school leavers at that election.

Individual,
Where in any of my posts, have I ridiculed you? I challenge you to point to one.
I simply say, if you make an assertion, back it up. And if you either cannot, or choose not to, don't be surprised if no one takes your assertions too seriously.
To quote the late astronomer, Carl Sagan, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."
To give you but one example of how you make claims with no proof, you infer in your last post that I have no experience.
Really?
Aside from the shear improbability of a person reaching maturity and not gaining experience, you know nothing about me, yet it doesn't stop you from drawing a wild inference.
Now, the benefit of doing as I suggest is that in searching for your supporting evidence, you may, possibly, discover for yourself that some of your assertions don't hold up.
And that would save all of us some time and effort.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

searching for your supporting evidence,
Antonyve,
Go out & live in remote Australia & you'll find all the proof you want me to provide. I am offering you this proof, you just have to go & see it. Read what some posters hear have to say rather than querying them for proof. The proof is there, you just don't want to see it.
I agree with saving time & effort so go out & see.
There's enough proof to know that the lack of integrity is 100% guarantee for persecution.
Remember, they're getting desperate.