Fair Work Australia was set up by the Labor government when it deconstructed the IR legislation of the Howard and Keating governments. FWA has significant resources and is able to adjudicate multiple complex negotiations simultaneously.

Given the relatively simple case against Craig Thomson and Williamson, and the evidence at their disposal, the question that is the elephant in the room is whether FWA is incapable of resolving a simple case of fraud and larceny in 3 years, or whether political interference is delaying the case until it is no longer relevant?

In spite of no direct evidence, given that the FWA is not run by idiots, and the recent dirty tricks emanating from the PM's office, I find it difficult to believe that is that undue influence has not been exercised.

I invite anyone to show me where my understanding is flawed.

A simple case of fraud and larceny, you have the verdict before a trial.

Have to agree with you there 579.
SM, much like TA, sticks his foot in his mouth again.
Typical of 'kangaroo court' proponents and evidence of 'rose coloured' McCarthyism.
Betcha we can expect much much more of what others have commented; same old same old.
Nothing new here, SM still rocking in his stockings.

BM and 579,

I see literacy are not strong points for you. A murder trial does not assume a verdict, neither does "FWA is incapable of resolving a simple case of fraud and larceny" and neither does anything in my post.

The issue is the length of time that a relatively "simple" or uncomplicated case is taking to resolve.

Given the body of evidence publicly released the most likely verdict would be devastating to the incumbent government, and with the resources of FWA the length of this investigation is far from reasonable. And as Kathy Jackson, many Australians are reaching the conclusion that Labor is deliberately delaying the outcome.

SM, a murder trial does assume a verdict - guilty or innocent.

You wouldn't have a clue of its simplicity, or more likely, complexity.

You do nothing but shoot from the hip - like TA.

You, unlike TA, do it from the sidelines.

You have made up your mind without being directly involved.

You would make a terrible juror, SM - given your bias and predjudice.

You hang, draw and quarter without listening to evidence (you don't know it all).

You sir, are a disgrace to fair and equitable justice, whether guilty or not.

BM,

At this stage I see no evidence of any grey matter between your ears.

Your comments with responses:

SM, a murder trial does assume a verdict - guilty or innocent.
Nope, there is also hung jury and mistrial. Which is besides the point considering your charge of "kangaroo court".

You wouldn't have a clue of its simplicity, or more likely, complexity.
Wrong. There are only a few people involved, and the body of evidence is not voluminous, or ambiguous. Compared to other investigations, with dozens of witnesses and tonnes of documentation that have taken more than a year, it is extremely simple

You do nothing but shoot from the hip - like TA.
Yes with evidence as ammunition unlike you.

You, unlike TA, do it from the sidelines.
Your point?

You have made up your mind without being directly involved.
I believe those directly involved are up for fraud.
At least I have a mind to make up, and I use the available information.

You would make a terrible juror, SM - given your bias and predjudice.
Yes I am biased against Labor MPs Union leaders and other crooks.

You hang, draw and quarter without listening to evidence (you don't know it all).
I may not have seen all the evidence, but I have seen plenty.

You sir, are a disgrace to fair and equitable justice, whether guilty or not.
Then so are most of the Australian voters who call a spade a spade.
You are simply a disgrace.

What SM is saying, I think, is not whether he is guilty or not, but rather, why has it taken so long, still without an outcome.

They have ruled on a wage increase for the service industry, they acted fast in the Qantas dispute, so either they are being corrupted, or, they are out of their depth.

Either way, the government must act immediately to get this issue soughed, even if this means passing it on to another body.

When something urgent comes up, no doubt the case you are referring to would be put on hold. It could take another 2 years to get to the bottom of this. You are misjudging the complexities of this matter. Just like Abbott, you wouldn't have a clue. Leave it to the experts. I do not think your assertions that fair work are corrupt or incompetent, should be aired without some concrete evidence.

It would appear that the labor mob at Fair Work have decided that all is lost.

Just to make it harder for the coalition government to get back into the black, when they come back in, they have set ridiculous wages for the no skills caring sector.

Good luck affording a nursing home with this crazy stuff. The only people in them will be the government funded penniless.

I think Hasbeen has a strong point there. Labor knows they're very likely out the door so in spite & planning to get back in again after a coalition Government doesn't get in the black after just one term. They count on the indoctrinated first time voter who by then has absolutely no idea about the mismanagement until now.
That's why Labor is always placing education so high on their list at election time because it is education which hands them those high numbers of ignorant votes. After all Labor is no longer the party of the thinking for the common good.

>> I think Hasbeen has a strong point ...

... Labor knows they're very likely out the door ...

... They count on the indoctrinated first time voter ...

... That's why Labor is always placing education so high on their list ...

... It is education which hands them those high numbers of ignorant votes...

... After all Labor is no longer the party of the thinking for the common good <<

byjeezus-h-christendom! Where to start:

* Hasbeen is a hasbeen, even the hasbeen admits it

* So says one individual

* Contradiction in terms

* Indoctrinated 1st time voter - stop smokin the stuff

* So, the other mob want to dumb down the voters

* Individual is an example of a 'dumbed down' society, very likely with 95% confidence

* Yeah, those bloody elitist academics and no-nuttin educated people

* Alternatives think? Yeah right, after they put their foot in their mouth.

Shadow Minister, not often do I agree with you, but this time you are spot on. The time it has taken (3 years) Fair Work to investigate Thompson and Williamson, one can only conclude there has been some kind of political interference or at best, those at FWA charged with the 'investigation' know which side their bread's buttered.

So, the other mob want to dumb down the voters
bonmot,
Well, they did have a huge success rate with it at the last election. If that's not success then what is ?
Their biggest success was in 1972 & that record still stands.

Some are hasbeens, & proud of it.

The other side of hasbeen is never was, & it doesn't take long to see who they are.

Just a few factoids with respect to FWA.

The operating budget is roughly $21m p.a.
The staffing is roughly 850.

Combine this with new evidence that the Labor Minister for Industrial relations was asking FWA to sanitize its reports on the Craig Thomson fraud and theft case, and you once again have the stench of Covert interference by Labor dirty tricks Dept.

Despite SM's propensity to see the Coalition as 'do no evil' I have to agree with his assessment of this case.

While Fair Work and other departments are at the mercy of their political masters, public servants should remain bipartisan no matter their own political sympthies. Similar happened during the Howard Government where the lines between political and public service were crossed numerous times, including using a senior public servant to sell WorkChoices in a political advertising campaign.

Regardless, this sort of cover-up and obfuscation should not be tolerated on either side of government.

The Gillard Labor government cannot keep making these sorts of ethical mistakes (Slipper, Wilkie, Thomson) and expect to retain the faith of the electorate. It is difficult for voters like myself who shudder at the horror of the alternative.

This takes me back to 2004 when a certain Mr Abbott was facing allegations of breaching electoral laws and non-disclosure to pay “a gift” to a dissident member of One Nation in relation to the “Australians for Honest Politics” trust which he set up specifically to attack that party.

After a 12 month investigation the action was mysteriously dropped by a (legally unqualified) member of the Australian Electoral Commission after Abbott complained that it was “unreasonable”.

Really?
A Minister is above the Law?

Despite the AEC referring the Media to advice posted on its website, no such advice ever appeared under its Media Releases. It just "went away".

Perhaps there was undue Ministerial influence or corruption involved.

Then a couple of years later there was the Cole enquiry into AWB where the underfunded and underresourced Federal Police decided to drop the case because a conviction "was not in the Public Interest".

Wobbles,

Firstly, does what happened years ago, justify the Thomson cover up?

Secondly, the allegations against Abbott were dismissed for a complete lack of evidence.

SM Why do I keep agreeing with you on this? I must need a holiday, a Green siding with a Liberal. Just kidding I have a few Liberal mates.
You are right for once on this. No matter what Labor says their credibility is zero. just another nail in the coffin. The worse thing they ever done was form a minority government. They should have given it to Abbott. Most likely he would be in the same position as Gillard finds herself now, very very difficult for anyone to run a minority government. They nearly always fall over.

No matter what Labor says their credibility is zero.
Paul1405,
To what level would you then put their credibility on what they do ?

What I don't understand is why the Fair Work Commission is handling
the matter at all. The accusation is fraud and or embezzlement which
surely is a simple police matter. It is not an IR matter.

Perhaps when the matter came to light it was put into the FWCom before
the police could be informed as it was thought to be more sympathetic
than the police. Or perhaps more controllable.

Individual, When I say "their (Labor) credibility is zero" its in relation to the Thompson matter. However in general I think the public perception of Gillard is she is untrustworthy, I don't think this is entirely her fault she does face a rather hostile media who seem to be on a bit of a feeding frenzy when it comes to bad news for Labor. Unlike SM I think Abbott will prove to be an unmitigated disaster as PM, the man has no substance at all. Once upon a time Abbott thought he should have been a Catholic priest, its a pity he didn't stick with it, his character befits the qualities needed to make it as a priest in the Catholic Church. Who knows Abbott could have been the next Cardinal Pell.
Its a pity to see yesterdays man Simon Crean out there attacking Rudd, it does the party no good, just shows the divide that exists within Labor. I like the quote from Churchill when a new junior MP looking at the Labour MP's opposite said to Churchill "The enemy look rather formidable." Churchill replied "Them, my boy are Her Majesties Loyal Opposition, the enemy are behind us!" maybe that applies to Gillard today.

Paul1405,
I agree with you that we can't blame the PM for everything no matter what party. It is after all the Government as a whole that makes mainly bad policy decisions.
Abbott himself is suffering from the same symptoms as did John Howard, an image problem. But only left-wing media & worthless academia see it as such & make a huge thing of it & derailing our economy in the process. Well to me image isn't a problem at all, it's competence I'm after & I believe just like Howard Abbott too will prove more competent than several Labor PM's starting with Whitlam.
Also, a coalition team albeit a long way from perfect will as per usual provide better economic management than Labor Governments since Whitlam.
After all we have the proof.

The whole attitude by many about Tony Abbott seems to me to be
manufactured.
Oh he would be dreadful !
It will be a disaster !
He is a terrible man !

It just does not ring genuine to me. No one could be as bad as he is painted.
Are we witnessing a Green/Labour campaign, tell a lie and tell it often !
I wonder how many voters are wondering the same thing.

I don't know him and have never even seen him in real life but he
does seem to be a real person, probably not perfect, but he does seem
to enjoy what he does in whatever field and you cannot fake that all
the time.

I think he might surprise you all.

Bazz,
the integrity devoid extreme left realised that its rather unintelligent attempts to discredit Abbott by trying to image-build Turnbull & cause destabilisation within the coalition.
Now they're trying the old tactic which they used in the early howard days.
What they haven't yet woken up to is the fact that Labor has become so bad that even Labor supporters are getting cold feet.
Australia nor FWA are corrupt , the extreme left is corrupt & incompetent by default.

Paul,

If the coalition had got in as a minority government, things might have gone badly for Abbott. It was Gillard, however, that signed the deals with the devils and drank heavily from the poison chalice.

It is going to take years to unravel the poison pill of the carbon tax.

Turnbull & cause destabilisation within the coalition --have failed.

Just realised the words.. "have failed" didn't copy.

It's not a matter of promoting Turnbull. It's a matter of having someone at the head of the coalition, that will be more suitable. When it comes to economics Abbott is a poor loser. Au is in a very good position in world economics and it would be a shame for it to fall in to a heap, because of someone's inability to understand how economics work. This is where Turnbull is an appropriate choice in case of govt; change.

I always get a laugh when references are made to the 'extreme left'. These bogeymen, people who outwardly portray an air of ‘moderacy”, but lurking behind this mild facade, at night, they are Joe Starlin worshiping Bolsheviks. What do they do for a day job, reporters on the ABC or SMH, maybe lecture at some main stream university, could even be members of The Greens. It’s all a matter of perspective as someone once said "Ronnie Ragan was a communist." Would the conservative on here like to define the 'extreme left' within the Oz body politic for me, please. I must say I do not define Tony Abbott or the likes of Alan Jones or Piers Akerman, as being 'extreme right' rank conservatives, yes, extreme, no.

Shadow Minister

"Firstly, does what happened years ago, justify the Thomson cover up?"

It doesn't. I never said it did - only that such matters happen on both sides of politics.

"..the allegations against Abbott were dismissed for a complete lack of evidence."

No they weren't. The decision not to proceed was a unilateral decision made by a legally unqualified person. No actual information was ever forthcoming. It was set aside because there would have been an election before the matter would have been resolved but it never seemed to be pursued by the media to the same extent at this matter.

Wobbles,

The evidence leaked to the public with respect to Thomson, such as his credit card signature, with driver's licence and phone records is extremely damning and to the public puts his guilt way beyond reasonable doubt.

Given this overwhelming evidence it is feeble that Labor is claiming that due process be followed, and yet appears to be doing whatever it can to ensure that due process is never completed.

FWA taking 3 years is either run by a bunch of gibbering idiots, or there is an agenda to delay the findings to the point that they are irrelevant. Given the massive public interest the obstruction is bordering on criminal.

I previously asked this question;

What I don't understand is why the Fair Work Commission is handling
the matter at all ? The accusation is fraud and or embezzlement which
surely is a simple police matter. It is not an IR matter.

No one has suggested a reason. Does it mean one law for unions and
another for the rest ?

Sorry for asking an awkward question but I think it is important.

FWA is in the process of finding out wether there is a case to be tried.
You are jumping the gun stating what the charges are before there is any conclusion. All in due course Bazz.

I can't believe my eyes. Anyone who is making excuses for this con job can only have one motive and that's to participate in the stall tactics. There is no doubt that some crooked dealings went down and given the sleazy nature it is outrageous that Thompson is still there.

Oh wait a minute, it completely slipped my mind that Labour and the dyed in wool supportors on this Forum aren't really interested in the truth, justice or the opposing opinions expressed by those with common sense.

At the very least Thompson should resign but that requires a modicum of dignity. Thopson is a lying sleazeball and so are those who are protecting him.

No one is protecting anyone, Thompson says he is not the perpetrator. Until other is found there can not be a trial. Someone said it should be handled by the police, they do not want it.
A kangaroo court is only in the interest of the coalition.

579

"No one is protecting anyone, Thompson says he is not the perpetrator."

Riiight!! So we should release all the other criminals that protest their innocence. Do you claim that his CC signature, photocopied driver's license and phone records are all forged?

Absolute bollocks! Thomson stinks to high heaven of corruption and graft, and now so does Juliar Gillard.

579 said;
FWA is in the process of finding out wether there is a case to be tried.
You are jumping the gun stating what the charges are before there is any conclusion. All in due course Bazz.

Listen, I said WHY is the FWA involved at all ?

It is none of their business. There is an allegation of criminal action.
That is a police matter.
No ifs no buts, Why did it take a complaint to the police to get
them involved over the top of the FWA ?
The FWA should not have been involved, it is not industrial relations.

The people you have to have sympathy for in this whole sorry saga are people like my partner who is a member of the HSU East, low paid hospital worker, pays her 23 bucks a fortnight to the union. You have so called Labor people who have completely forgotten the workers they are supposed to represent, to busy infighting or playing political football.
One side note on this is the union has lost so many members, people resigning everywhere, they asked my partner to be a new union delegate, she asked my view, normally I would have said "yes, do it." but this time I said "no way."
At the next federal election I will be doing my little bit in my electorate to have The Greens not preference Labor who hold the seat by 6%.

the opposition...would be best advised
to put juliar on ignore..

[NOT ONE QUESTION..to 'her'
at question time]

pick on rudd...give him a forum..to beat her up
[he wont get any nonmination..so dont sweat on giving him pm time]

divide and conquer

address the issue..[any issue]..to minor front bench members

ambush them..do they support this?

juliar is just waiting for the early electorial advantage
just like howard...se if the issue floats..take the air out of the opposition...adopt their policies[wrongly/poorly]..high jack the name

its all only too easy
to let them set the adgenda
or do as the beurocracy tells ya

its best we expose the tricks
then aim for more fairity
representing the people
not the master

'You have so called Labor people who have completely forgotten the workers they are supposed to represent, to busy infighting or playing political football. '

And therein lies the problem. Like the ALP, the union movement has lost it's way, gettting down and dirty in politics instead of representing workers.

Despite the obvious historical context, it is about time the unions and Labor parted ways. It is impossible to represent member interests when unions are so incestuously linked to one major party. And where unions are perceived as a career step into Labor by some self-promoters. There is no issue with union leaders becoming politicians, hell there is already an over-representation from the legal field, but the intimate connection is an anathema to good governance and genuine representation.